STEP 3 - crucial details

[Nagar]

As an FMG I have some important Qs :

1) Is Step 3 mandatory for felloship (as a foreign physician who comes only for felloship) ?
2) How much time does it take to be fully prepared for that exam?
3) Are the scores important for the purpose of finding a felloship (again- for a FMG) ?

Thanx

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[Shah_Patel_PT]

As an FMG I have some important Qs :

1) Is Step 3 mandatory for felloship (as a foreign physician who comes only for felloship) ?
2) How much time does it take to be fully prepared for that exam?
3) Are the scores important for the purpose of finding a felloship (again- for a FMG) ?

Thanx

YOu CANNOT just do fellowship....you need to start with a residency first.

 

[Idiopathic]

As an FMG I have some important Qs :

1) Is Step 3 mandatory for felloship (as a foreign physician who comes only for felloship) ?
2) How much time does it take to be fully prepared for that exam?
3) Are the scores important for the purpose of finding a felloship (again- for a FMG) ?

Thanx

1) Step 3 is required for licensure. If you find a fellowship position that will accept your residency, they will likely require you to be licensed for residency in the state that the fellowship is in. This may or may not require you to take Step 3 (maybe you have taken exams that will fulfill the requirement?) but these are likely questions that will be answered on a state-by-state level. there may be fellowship programs that will allow you to work on a hospital license, but I cant imagine there are too many of these...most will want you to have your own independent license.

2) Not long, assuming you have adequate meical training and a grasp of the english language. the material is fairly ubiquitous.

3) I have heard that Step 3 carries some weight as far as finding a fellowship (again, NOT a residency), but its debatable how much. I would imagine that in your case, any program would want you to have passed the USMLE (all steps) fairly comfortably, unless you already have a space, then you might just need to pass them.

 

[Nagar]

Some additional Qs:

1) Is the step 3 included in the 7-years period (in which you have to take all steps)?
2) From what I know, step 3 is relevant only in the state where you take it. If that's correct, how can I know which state's exam to take ????
3) And again- are you certain step 3 is crucial for FMG after ortho residency outsides the US, who comes for fellowship only ?

 

[docsri]

Again I will repeat, what was stated above.....You CANNOT do a fellowship, with OUT doing residency in USA first. It doesnt matter what you did before in any other country, it is not considered, other than as work experience.
As for your step 3, you can take it if you need to, as also stated above, but whatever it is, you MUST do residency HERE in USA first, only then will they allow you to do FELLOWSHIP.

 

[Nagar]

I am sorry but you have a mistake - many ortho surgeons from all over the world come for felloship in the US (of course without doing an american residency). The only question is whether step 3 is crucial according to this link : http://www.ecfmg.org/2007ib/ibfaq.html
(look for the requierments for ECFMG certification which is what you need to do a fellowship in the US after you finish a non-american residency)

Sorry for the trouble, and thanx for your patience

 

[DrMom]

1) Is the step 3 included in the 7-years period (in which you have to take all steps)?

From the website you linked:
"For the purpose of medical licensure, the USMLE program recommends to state medical licensing authorities that they require applicants to pass the full USMLE sequence (including Step 3, which is not required for ECFMG Certification) within a seven-year period."

2) From what I know, step 3 is relevant only in the state where you take it. If that's correct, how can I know which state's exam to take ????

All of the steps of the USMLE, including step 3, are national exams, not state exams.

3) And again- are you certain step 3 is crucial for FMG after ortho residency outsides the US, who comes for fellowship only ?

American fellows have to have passed step 3 and be fully-licensed to be in their fellowship programs. You're not going to be able to be licensed to practice if you haven't passed all of the steps. You've got to be licensed to be able to be in a fellowship training program...so I can't see any way to avoid taking and passing step 3 if you want to do a fellowship in the US.

If you're starting at the residency stage rather than at a fellowship, then you'd have to finish the first 2 steps before starting training and then take step 3 during training.

 

[Idiopathic]

Again I will repeat, what was stated above.....You CANNOT do a fellowship, with OUT doing residency in USA first. It doesnt matter what you did before in any other country, it is not considered, other than as work experience.
As for your step 3, you can take it if you need to, as also stated above, but whatever it is, you MUST do residency HERE in USA first, only then will they allow you to do FELLOWSHIP.

How can you say this? Totally wrong. If a state deems that you have met the criteria for licensure, you can be licensed and if the accreditation board deems that you have met the requirements for board accreditation, then you can be BC. I still argue that you will need Step 3 for state licensure and to start a fellowship.

Obviously some foreign physicians come to america and are required to redo residency, but it certainly doesnt happen with all of them.

 

[Nagar]

since I will probably have to take step 3, I wanted to ask the most important thing- once I pass steps 1-3, how long is my permission for fellowship/residency valid ? is it for life or only for a limited period ?

thanx

 

[Idiopathic]

since I will probably have to take step 3, I wanted to ask the most important thing- once I pass steps 1-3, how long is my permission for fellowship/residency valid ? is it for life or only for a limited period ?

thanx

Licenses must be renewed based on individual state requirements (i.e. good standing, continuing education credits, etc.).

Step III should be your last standardized tests you take (besides any board certification exams you might sit for) and you wont have to take it again if you pass once.

 

[Nagar]

what's the difference between an accredited and a non-accredited fellowship ?
I heard that for a non-accredited u don't need step 3 (again - post-residency doctor who completed a non-US residency and comes to the states only for 1 or 2 years fellowship)

Thanx

 

[kittykat]

From what I understand you can't get board certified s/p completion of an unaccredited fellowship of a speciality.

 

[Idiopathic]

what's the difference between an accredited and a non-accredited fellowship ?
I heard that for a non-accredited u don't need step 3 (again - post-residency doctor who completed a non-US residency and comes to the states only for 1 or 2 years fellowship)

Thanx

Its really dependent on the individual program

 

[driedcaribou]

Licenses must be renewed based on individual state requirements (i.e. good standing, continuing education credits, etc.).

Step III should be your last standardized tests you take (besides any board certification exams you might sit for) and you wont have to take it again if you pass once.

Hi there.

So can you take Step 3 as an International medical doctor when you have Step 1 and 2 (CK and CS) completed?
And this never expires?

I know you can only do Step 3 in the US but do foreign trained medical practitioners write Step 3 in the US and then apply for a fellowship or do they write Step 3 after they get accepted into a fellowship in the US?

Thanks!

 

[BearCat]

Hi there.

So can you take Step 3 as an International medical doctor when you have Step 1 and 2 (CK and CS) completed?
And this never expires?

I know you can only do Step 3 in the US but do foreign trained medical practitioners write Step 3 in the US and then apply for a fellowship or do they write Step 3 after they get accepted into a fellowship in the US?

Thanks!

Hello, I kind of stumbled onto this thread and thought i'd throw some 2cents in, but I am not exactly an expert in all of this...

1. As an IMG, you can do your fellowship here first in the US without a residency. My understanding is that if you want to stay and practice in the US, then you need to do your residency in the US. I have met some on the residency interview trail, foreign applicants who have finished fellowships in the US, and then now applying for residency. Kind of interesting.

2. Once you are training as a resident in the US, you won't have to take the Steps again. If you are an IMG, and have not applied to residency programs, there is a time your step 1 and step 2 scores are valid for.
So to Nagar, once you've taken your step 1, 2, 3, I'd get on the ball and apply as soon as possible to your residency/fellowship programs. I know people who had to take step 2 TWICE because they waited too long in between to apply to residency. Then as you probably know the ECMFG/J-1 is good for 7 years, so whatever you are doing in the US, whether just residency or fellowhip or both, you should finish them in 7 years.

3. On the fellowship applications, there is a box that asks for which date you took Step 3 or when you are planning to. I know the IMGs in my program started applying to fellowships this month without their step 3 results. Many of them are taking step 3 this month though. So to answer your question, I think they apply to fellowships and take Step 3 simulataneously.

 

[Idiopathic]

1. As an IMG, you can do your fellowship here first in the US without a residency. My understanding is that if you want to stay and practice in the US, then you need to do your residency in the US. I have met some on the residency interview trail, foreign applicants who have finished fellowships in the US, and then now applying for residency. Kind of interesting.

I would think this not very likely. To be licensed in the US, you have to either complete a US residency or the quivalent, and most (if not all) fellowships will want you to have your own US license. If you have your own US license then you wouldnt need to go back and take a US residency post-fellowship, right? You would be a licensed physician with fellowship training, pretty much making you board-eligible, I would think.

 

[driedcaribou]

I would think this not very likely. To be licensed in the US, you have to either complete a US residency or the quivalent, and most (if not all) fellowships will want you to have your own US license. If you have your own US license then you wouldnt need to go back and take a US residency post-fellowship, right? You would be a licensed physician with fellowship training, pretty much making you board-eligible, I would think.

Thanks for the information BearCat.

Idiopathic: No, you definitely can do a fellowship in the US without having to do residency in the US. Numerous Australian doctors have done this.

You can work in the US after completing your fellowship BUT this is only if the hospital is willing to pay your insurance etc.

 

[Idiopathic]

Im only arguing that if you dont do an approved residency, then you cant get a license, and most fellowships wont want an unlicensed physician.

Maybe Im wrong about that

 

[mmed]

Im only arguing that if you dont do an approved residency, then you cant get a license, and most fellowships wont want an unlicensed physician.

Maybe Im wrong about that

-You can do fellowship before or after residency with or without step3.
-You can not apply for any FULL UNRESTRICTED state license without residency training (at least 2years for many states, 3 years for others for IMG) and pass score for step3.
-The time limit factor for many states is the time recorded between the first reported result for any USMLE step (pass or fail for some states and pass only for others) and that of passing score for step3 report (not exam date).
-The time needed to be ready for step3 vary so much, from my opinion it is not less than 4 months up to .......
- Step3 score is not required at all for any competition just pass score is fine and the number of trials is considerable.

This is what I understand and welcome any other thoughts.

My advice is; don't put yourself under any equivocal circumstances. If you plan to do the exams do it in time fashioned (all steps help each other specially step2 and step3). Again from my opinion, if you are IMG take all exams in 1-1.5 year maximum and pass from your first trial with good score to have more opportunity to residency in all states with no license restrictions.

 

[Dramkinola]

Again I will repeat, what was stated above.....You CANNOT do a fellowship, with OUT doing residency in USA first. It doesnt matter what you did before in any other country, it is not considered, other than as work experience.
As for your step 3, you can take it if you need to, as also stated above, but whatever it is, you MUST do residency HERE in USA first, only then will they allow you to do FELLOWSHIP.

WRONG.
I work with an ophtalmologist from Syria, who came to the US for a Corneal fellowship. He did NOT do an American residency. Nor did he take step 1 and 2.
He just can't work in the US after completig the fellowship, unless he takes Step 1 and 2 and redoes his Ophtalmology residency.
Knowledge is power.

 

[driedcaribou]

WRONG.
I work with an ophtalmologist from Syria, who came to the US for a Corneal fellowship. He did NOT do an American residency. Nor did he take step 1 and 2.
He just can't work in the US after completig the fellowship, unless he takes Step 1 and 2 and redoes his Ophtalmology residency.
Knowledge is power.

I don't know why people don't think you can't do fellowships in the US from foreign countries... it's the whole purpose of the exchange of ideas and scholarships etc etc.... you can't stay after a fellowship so you can't compete with local US doctors... so they don't care if you do a fellowship or not.