Step 2 CS failure

[Elivis]

So I have failed the CS exam. For some background I am a fairly good student. Step 1 score of 241, Step 2 score of 264, class rank in the top quarter of my class. I studied First Aid for Step 2 CS for about two weeks prior to taking the exam. My question is this, has anyone successfully challenged their score? What might I do to improve in the future? According to my dean I might not graduate on time, let alone match into the specialty that I desire. This just feels like a great big kick in the balls. Thank you.

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[doc901333]

I only have one name here. I understand skepticism with many new faces complaining about the same thing, but I assure you we are all real. I have met 1 of the people in this post, spoke with another on the telephone, and corresponded with 2 others via email. I promise you that we are all very real and all failed the test during the same week. We are all also facing the same nightmare of not matching. So in searching the web for some glimmer of hope I found this forum. I am sure others have similar stories.
I got my scores last night and failed the ICE as well. I'll keep everyone posted as to what happens next for me.

 

[Allygator89]

Not that it proves anything by saying so, but I am not posting under multiple names. Things had just been good to this point.

As far as the date goes, I was told by my dean that we are technically not allowed to submit a rank order list unless we have passed. Tests taken November 5 to December 31 are reported from January 31 to February 21, the last day to certify your list. So, if you were to take it later than the 31st you would not get your scores back in time. I don't know if this is right, it is just what I was told.

Does anyone know if they have a real headquarters in Philly? I will be heading there for an interview. I have the feeling if I could tell my story to a reasonable person there maybe my exam could get a second look.

FYI That doesn't make sense about not submitting a rank order list until you have passed CS. Lots of peeps don't even take it until April..... that may be more school specific. Check the NRMP website, but I don't remember ever seeing that on the site...

 

[eastcoaster79]

sounds like you folks really got screwed on this one. based on your postings you all seem like reasonable, articulate individuals.

i can't imagine what went wrong, but i'm wondering for those of you who were marked down on the communication and interpersonal skills . . . how did you handle your challenge questions? i found my SPs kept throwing challenge questions to me left and right. i'd be in the middle of taking a history, and they'd start throwing out all sorts of questions that were tough to answer or handle. i could see how if a person just glossed over these questions due to time/style/nervousness/etc or if an examinee didn't provide enough time to ask "any questions for me?" that this could give the impression you're rude or impersonal.

 

[Allygator89]

sounds like you folks really got screwed on this one. based on your postings you all seem like reasonable, articulate individuals.

i can't imagine what went wrong, but i'm wondering for those of you who were marked down on the communication and interpersonal skills . . . how did you handle your challenge questions? i found my SPs kept throwing challenge questions to me left and right. i'd be in the middle of taking a history, and they'd start throwing out all sorts of questions that were tough to answer or handle. i could see how if a person just glossed over these questions due to time/style/nervousness/etc or if an examinee didn't provide enough time to ask "any questions for me?" that this could give the impression you're rude or impersonal.

I passed, but also noticed that I had the "Angry" patient that you had to deal with before you could start the physical exam. And the above poster is right. You need to answer those challenging questions, provide a nice wrap up with future plans/lab tests/follow up as well as allow time for any questions.

I would spend the 50 bucks and have them recheck it.

 

[buglady]

Out of curiosity, anyone fail the exam in Philly? I take the craptacular exam three days after Christmas. Can't wait. Hopefully the SP's will still have some Christmas cheer left.

 

[jmrck]

To the poster who was wondering if these are the same person reposting under different names, I can assure you, that I am one person, and I have contacted another on the forum via e-mail. I think we have been given a raw deal, it sucks really bad. I failed the ICE portion, it is as if I went into the room and walked out, without taking a H&P. It also seemed that I didn't even bother to write down anything on the "write-up". The reason I am pissed about the entire process is that my school has an OSCE station, we have been doing OSCE here since the first year of medical school. In addition, I have done an OSCE after every rotation during 3rd year except surgery and did not fail any of them. In addition to that, in July of this year, I took my school's graduation OSCE and passed it. I hope that shows how many times I have done this, and mind you, I take every exam seriously, so I still studied for this OSCE. Another point, one of my Internal medicine professors is the author of the OSCE review book. Do you see why I am so angry? I know that those of you out there reading this forum might think we are just blowing steam because we didn't study and failed the test, but we are angry because we want to know "HOW" did we fail it. Show us some proof. Well I am off... the saga will continue

Jamrock

 

[doc901333]

Still waiting to hear from the NBME (that's a shocker). I hope everyone I have spoken with has contacted them. If anyone else is interested, private message me with an email addy or phone # and I will tell you who to contact. I am even going to mail out a hard copy of the letter I have written just to be thorough. It is important that we stand together. We are fighting the establishment and the only way to make our point is in numbers.

 

[SLUser11]

Still waiting to hear from the NBME (that's a shocker). I hope everyone I have spoken with has contacted them. If anyone else is interested, private message me with an email addy or phone # and I will tell you who to contact. I am even going to mail out a hard copy of the letter I have written just to be thorough. It is important that we stand together. We are fighting the establishment and the only way to make our point is in numbers.

Well, I'm glad to hear that you guys are all different people, all of which rocked the other steps but failed this one, but I still have a question:

Just in case your petition/litigation doesn't work out, are you guys planning to retake the CS so you can start residency on time? I'm not trying to be a punk, as I know that this is an extremely difficult and unfun problem, but I think you should assume that "the Man" will win in this situation.

 

[doc901333]

"Just in case your petition/litigation doesn't work out, are you guys planning to retake the CS so you can start residency on time? I'm not trying to be a punk, as I know that this is an extremely difficult and unfun problem, but I think you should assume that "the Man" will win in this situation."
Yes, I have paid my money and await my registration permit. This is because I have no choice. It is a graduation requirement.
The point you are missing is that there are no slots to retake the test until right around match day. This would make score reporting after April 25th, barely in time to graduate. Rank lists are due Feb 21st. I don't know about all specialities, but I do know about EM/ER/ED (whatever your naming preference). Earlier this week, I had a program make it as clear as legally possible that the fail on the CS would keep me off of their ROL until I resolved the issue. Now, this is the only program I have spoken with since the results have come out, but if this is the stance that all EM programs have then there is no starting residency on time. For me this is earth shattering. I am married with 2 children who are counting on me to make this happen. Literally, I am between a rock and a hard place.
Now, your cynical attitude is well justified. We will probably not bring the system to it's knees, but I do believe that there are too many in my situation at this time to be ignored. Last year, the NBME admitted to one mistake publicly when the numbers were high enough (40 people) to be what some would consider "class action" level. Some they awarded a pass and some they "couldn't find their notes" so they made them retake it at no cost(funny thing is that they all passed that time), but all of the residency programs that received these failure reports were contacted by the NBME and their mistake acknowledged. For a guy in my position anything is something. There are several other anecdotal reports I have heard about in which scores were overturned. As I said, you are right. We are fighting "the man". However, the NBME is no different than any governing body. If the numbers are there they will have to give us some consideration.

 

[mattie113]

just a quick question for you guys - did you type or hand write your notes? I was just curious if you think that handwriting could have played a part at all... my handwriting was terrible and i am stressing that I probably failed!

 

[jdig]

hi,
i handwrote because its all i have ever done. my handwriting is horrible, i filled out a complete page on every pt and by the end i am sure it was illegible as my hand was killing me! but i got a pass, so dont sweat that part

 

[doc901333]

I typed them all, but it didn't seem to help me any.

 

[SLUser11]

I typed them all, but it didn't seem to help me any.

In my single experience with the test, I felt that the typers were at a disadvantage. They routinely seemed to take longer finishing, which might lead to rushing/not finishing. Also, you can't use any good abbreviations, and it's slightly harder to go back and add information in my opinion.

When I asked a guy about it, he had a similar sentiment, "My handwriting is horrible, I have to type." I would say that if your handwriting is at least decent, it would be easier to write than to type........

 

[doc901333]

In my single experience with the test, I felt that the typers were at a disadvantage. They routinely seemed to take longer finishing, which might lead to rushing/not finishing. Also, you can't use any good abbreviations, and it's slightly harder to go back and add information in my opinion.

When I asked a guy about it, he had a similar sentiment, "My handwriting is horrible, I have to type." I would say that if your handwriting is at least decent, it would be easier to write than to type........

I guess that explains it. My failure must stem from the fact that I typed my notes.

 

[doc2042]

Has anyone heard that the NBME may be getting rid of the CS exam altogether

 

[doc901333]

I have heard a lot of talk on both sides of the argument, but nothing worth noting. Some say it will be gone next year, while others claim that the powers that put this thing into place are way too proud of the CS exam to let it die. If anyone has heard anything noteworthy please post.
I just shot you an email. sorry it took a bit to get back.

 

[tum]

not to be rude, but with such high step scores and following failures, something's off in denmark. if i were really a cynic, i might point out (as others have) that most of you have registration dates on this site that are unusually close. perhaps this is because you all signed up and started posting once bad things started happening, but it still strikes me as off. another thing is that in your posts most of you tend to make the same grammatical errors and have similar writing styles.

so i'd go with either:

1) you all have asperger's, explaining why you did so well on the multiple choice steps, but so poorly in "real life" or

2) you're a bored med student f****ing with the neurotic, high-achieving population of SDN because you have an easy rotation 4th year

not to be trite, but the above are the horses. the alternative would be that you all are different people that happened to ride zebras into the testing center that day.

of course, i also don't believe people in the ER until i see the UDS and BAL so perhaps i'm just a 4th year cynic.

 

[nabeya]

not to be rude, but with such high step scores and following failures, something's off in denmark. if i were really a cynic, i might point out (as others have) that most of you have registration dates on this site that are unusually close. perhaps this is because you all signed up and started posting once bad things started happening, but it still strikes me as off. another thing is that in your posts most of you tend to make the same grammatical errors and have similar writing styles.

so i'd go with either:

1) you all have asperger's, explaining why you did so well on the multiple choice steps, but so poorly in "real life" or

2) you're a bored med student f****ing with the neurotic, high-achieving population of SDN because you have an easy rotation 4th year

not to be trite, but the above are the horses. the alternative would be that you all are different people that happened to ride zebras into the testing center that day.

of course, i also don't believe people in the ER until i see the UDS and BAL so perhaps i'm just a 4th year cynic.

I agree. Too much of a coincidence.

 

[deleted109597]

Has anyone heard that the NBME may be getting rid of the CS exam altogether

God, I love this rumor.

The answer is no. Never. Not gonna happen. Every year someone brings this up, and it doesn't happen. The NBME is getting $1K from each and every medical student (allopathic, the DOs aren't falling for it), and from some, multiple thousands (not to say just the OP, but any of the 4% that fail it as US kids). It is a feel good cash cow, the NBME gets to have money, the schools get to say their students are "more professional."

 

[jdh71]

no jokes folks. the last batch of scores came out with many more people failing than predicted, and I, unfortunately, happen to be one. Step 1 228, Step 2 241 (not quite as illustrious as some, but above average) spent 12 days preparing with First Aid. I'm a student in Cali and we even have to take a similar state-wide exam (8 simulated pts, 15 minutes for hx and physical) in order to graduate and I passed that exam just fine. If you're not worried, maybe you should be . . .

 

[Allygator89]

In my single experience with the test, I felt that the typers were at a disadvantage. They routinely seemed to take longer finishing, which might lead to rushing/not finishing. Also, you can't use any good abbreviations, and it's slightly harder to go back and add information in my opinion.

When I asked a guy about it, he had a similar sentiment, "My handwriting is horrible, I have to type." I would say that if your handwriting is at least decent, it would be easier to write than to type........

Typing has nothing to do with it. You can still use the same abbreviations that people who handwrite it use. If you type fast, it won't take you any longer than someone handwriting their notes. I typed all mine, and was the first person finished every time relative to those who handwrote their notes. Passed first time. I highly doubt typing has anything to do with someone failing but more related to the content of their notes.

 

[SLUser11]

Typing has nothing to do with it. You can still use the same abbreviations that people who handwrite it use. If you type fast, it won't take you any longer than someone handwriting their notes. I typed all mine, and was the first person finished every time relative to those who handwrote their notes. Passed first time. I highly doubt typing has anything to do with someone failing but more related to the content of their notes.

Typing had nothing to do with it for you. That doesn't translate into a universal truth.

There were a couple of people when I tested that were typing who complained that they were having problems finishing on time. Like I said before, all of our advice is limited to our singular experience with the test, including yours.

 

[doc901333]

So far I have encountered 8 others from this forum who must have rode a zebra into the testing center. You don't have to believe anything or even read these posts if they bother you so much. If you passed the test, this thread isn't directed at you anyway. Some of us got screwed. The reason our registration dates are close is because the last reporting period started dec6th. I never had a use for an internet forum until now.
Why do we as physicians insist on tearing each other down? Lawyers don't eat their own, however we always seem to feel the need to one up each other.

not to be rude, but with such high step scores and following failures, something's off in denmark. if i were really a cynic, i might point out (as others have) that most of you have registration dates on this site that are unusually close. perhaps this is because you all signed up and started posting once bad things started happening, but it still strikes me as off. another thing is that in your posts most of you tend to make the same grammatical errors and have similar writing styles.

so i'd go with either:

1) you all have asperger's, explaining why you did so well on the multiple choice steps, but so poorly in "real life" or

2) you're a bored med student f****ing with the neurotic, high-achieving population of SDN because you have an easy rotation 4th year

not to be trite, but the above are the horses. the alternative would be that you all are different people that happened to ride zebras into the testing center that day.

of course, i also don't believe people in the ER until i see the UDS and BAL so perhaps i'm just a 4th year cynic.

 

[tum]

my girlfriend's a lawyer. they seem to be considerably more cuthroat with one another than we are. although they do protect each other when $hit hits the fan, it doesn't seem to be as much of a frat as medicine.

anyways, still a little skeptical, but too much in 4th year mode to keep posting. if you really did fail, i'm sorry--that sucks. sometimes programs will look for any excuse to be bastardly towards applicants, especially since the CS didn't exist in the same format when they were at our stage.

 

[Allygator89]

.

 

[jdh71]

Got lucky and snagged a January 9 test day to retake this suck - keeping checking back at the scheduling site every hour or so and stuff will open up. I originally had a April 9 - my school couldn't even gaurentee me a diploma at that test date - kept checking and checking - then got a March 14, and then a February 20, and then . . . bingo! That is soon enough to get results before match! Good luck guys.

 

[TaiShan]

I would just re-take the exam and save the energy for preparing it in USMLE way instead of suing/arguing. I do not know about your school but OSCE in my medical school was quite different from step 2 CS. There are a lot more in CS other than "washing hand and draping patient". I mean, did you ask their allergy? ask HM questions regardless of their SXs? ROS? trauma/sleep/wt/ocupation?? Meds compliance? ask the reason if they are not compliant? Any SEs from meds?? ... I am sure First aid has more than I can think right now (took CS almost one year ago).

 

[jdh71]

can't speak for others, but I lost it on my note . . .

 

[OBfan]

So I have failed the CS exam. For some background I am a fairly good student. Step 1 score of 241, Step 2 score of 264, class rank in the top quarter of my class. I studied First Aid for Step 2 CS for about two weeks prior to taking the exam. My question is this, has anyone successfully challenged their score? What might I do to improve in the future? According to my dean I might not graduate on time, let alone match into the specialty that I desire. This just feels like a great big kick in the balls. Thank you.

You scored 99% on step 1 and 2. How could you have failed?? I know people that have failed step 2 and pass the CS. Its the easiest exam in the world. There definitely must be some error. your step scores are excellent.

Good luck!

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

Typing has nothing to do with it. You can still use the same abbreviations that people who handwrite it use. If you type fast, it won't take you any longer than someone handwriting their notes. I typed all mine, and was the first person finished every time relative to those who handwrote their notes. Passed first time. I highly doubt typing has anything to do with someone failing but more related to the content of their notes.

Same here....

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

So I have failed the CS exam. For some background I am a fairly good student. Step 1 score of 241, Step 2 score of 264, class rank in the top quarter of my class. I studied First Aid for Step 2 CS for about two weeks prior to taking the exam. My question is this, has anyone successfully challenged their score? What might I do to improve in the future? According to my dean I might not graduate on time, let alone match into the specialty that I desire. This just feels like a great big kick in the balls. Thank you.

I was wondering if you or anybody else who failed the CS had any bit of an accent???

 

[Elivis]

We are fairly big rednecks, but most people I have met can understand Kansans.

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

We are fairly big rednecks, but most people I have met can understand Kansans.

I see...so it rules out that reason...

 

[TaiShan]

On a side note, why did you guys ALL take Step 2 CK this early despite 230+ step 1? I took step 2 early because my step 1 sucked, but none of my step-1-high-scoring buddies took CK earlier than Feburary......I know you want to prove you are good students but something is fishy here.

 

[doc901333]

there are several reasons I chose to take it earlier
The fact that I was going to forget some of the 3rd year material the further out I got was the driving force. I just wanted to get it over with. Also, I am applying to EM so I thought a higher score on CK might help me. Yes, it was a gamble, but I felt like I could increase my score if I studied enough.

Now, this CS fiasco has thrown a large monkey wrench into the works.....

 

[TaiShan]

I know your personal reason but why ALL of you who failed CS took CK this earlier (I assume in October) with such stellar step1 scores?

 

[Elivis]

I finished up third year with family/ambulatory which gave me some spare time to prepare, as well as a brush up on the basics. My first three months of fourth year were going to be tied up in a surgical subspecialty that would not allow me much time to study. I thought a higher Step 2 might allow me to be more competitive come application time.

 

[jdh71]

Applying to ophthalmology with a step 1 that is par for the course meant that I wanted a step 2 that had the potential to make a statement. Anything helps when applying for a competitive specialty.

 

[Rustavo]

Wow, I can't imagine what you guys who failed must be going through. I just found out today that I passed - I actually was pretty scared I wasn't going to since I ran out of time to "discuss treatment options" with several of my patients as well as finish a few notes. I took my test in early November in Atlanta.

I simply don't understand how they can run a high-stakes test like this and provide so little information on what the passing criteria are or even how it is graded. I feel thrilled & fortunate to have passed, but I think for my $1000 + expenses, I deserve a little feedback on what they thought I needed to work on - especially since my med school doesn't have standardized patients.

I am curious what kind of information the people who failed were given about the details of their scoring. Did they just give you a score for the three main componants, or did they actually break things down into small catagories? And why don't they give everyone that information?

 

[undertheladder]

hey elivis, doc 901333 and others planning to sue, I also failed and would like to join you.I scored unbelievable high scores for cis and english and impossibly low scores (as in I didn't even reach the borderline mark and there is an asterisk in my chart meaning my low scores are even lower than the lower scores). I also don't get how that could happen if the scorer for both are the SPs.Where and how can I contact you?

 

[Arginine]

hey elivis, doc 901333...Where and how can I contact you?

You can send them a private message. Just find any one of their posts on this thread, click on their name, and you should get a pull-down menu that includes the option to send a private message.

 

[nabeya]

hey elivis, doc 901333 and others planning to sue, I also failed and would like to join you.I scored unbelievable high scores for cis and english and impossibly low scores (as in I didn't even reach the borderline mark and there is an asterisk in my chart meaning my low scores are even lower than the lower scores). I also don't get how that could happen if the scorer for both are the SPs.Where and how can I contact you?

Hey, another "coincidence" with a person that happened to fail the CS exam but also happened to register this month and only have 1 post.

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

Hey, another "coincidence" with a person that happened to fail the CS exam but also happened to register this month and only have 1 post.

very mysterious.

 

[SLUser11]

very mysterious.

Here's my theory:

Professor Plum.....in the library......with the candlestick.





Honestly, I agree that it's unlikely, and I stated so in an earlier post.......but then I thought about a couple things:

1. How would this type of charade help? I don't see any legal advantage to alot of made up personalities on a message board failing a test. For any lawsuit or whatever, you'd need more tangible proof to support your argument.

2. Who cares?

 

[emtji]

very mysterious.

or maybe they failed and decided that it was time to register and post since they needed to contact others who had failed.

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

Here's my theory:

Professor Plum.....in the library......with the candlestick.

I think it was the pipe, and in the kitchen!



Honestly, I agree that it's unlikely, and I stated so in an earlier post.......but then I thought about a couple things:

1. How would this type of charade help? I don't see any legal advantage to alot of made up personalities on a message board failing a test. For any lawsuit or whatever, you'd need more tangible proof to support your argument.

Psychological satisfaction, blowing some steam, stress distribution?

2. Who cares?
What if it was us??

...........................

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

or maybe they failed and decided that it was time to register and post since they needed to contact others who had failed.

It might have been easier to just make a poll.

Who had high scores on the CK and failed the CS? It really would be interesting to see the results. If newly created usernames start to vote or not???

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

.................................

 

[nabeya]

When people post about failing the exam, it makes people like me who took it recently and left the exam center not worried about failing, all of a sudden feel paranoid about failing when I didn't even have the thought previously before reading this post.

 

[jdh71]

Occam's Razor . . . which is the simplest and most likely explaination . . . since the last batch of scores came out when *drum roll* . . . December 6, would it seem more likely that there a few folks who failed that logged on here for the first time to get some information, advice, and support, or that there is one guy spending all this extra time prepetuating a scam on studentdoc.

Now both are plausible. Both made the differential list. Which is most likely future docs? Really?