St. George's VS Univ of Sydney

[brutus]

Would one of these schools be considered a better education than the other? I realize they are quite different, but is one better from the education perspective and also the status/respect perspective?
Thanks!

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[trkd]

That's hard to say because those of us that would respond to this thread go to either one or the other. Being a US student at USYD, I would say that the quality of education is very high here. However, from the threads and a few students that I know who have graduated from there say St. G is good too. I would also have to say that St. G probably caters more to the USMLE. This may be a consideration. I would guess that USYD is more self-directed with respect to the USMLE than St. G. That said, I would (and did) take USYD over St. G for some other reasons (reputation, location, stigma). This is not to say St. G is lacking in any of these, just my preference. Either way, you will likely get a solid education in either place.

 

[brutus]

true. it does seem that USYD suffers less from SGU in terms of the stigma factor. but it does sound as though SGU caters to US students substantially more. if i am accepted at both places, it will be very hard for me to pick!
thanks!

 

[skypilot]

I guess you could take 3 of the 100 thousand dollars you save by going to Sydney and spend it on a deluxe Kaplan review course for the USMLE. Then you would achieve both objectives.

 

[brutus]

thank you VERY much. your information is most helpful! i am going to mull it all over for a bit. thanks for the email address. if i have more questions, i'll get in touch.

 

[The Pill Counter]

Living in Sydney, chilling on Bondi Beach, watching the beautiful girls go by, hitting the bars with your buddies - enjoying life.

vs.

Sequestered on a campus on a remote Carribean Island for two years staring at the same hundred or so faces day in, day out going stir crazy...

 

[The Pill Counter]

Hey flindophile, coming up to Bris for AMSA? Pack an extra liver...

 

[skypilot]

Originally posted by The Pill Counter
Living in Sydney, chilling on Bondi Beach, watching the beautiful girls go by, hitting the bars with your buddies - enjoying life.

I read this and think the question might be "Sydney versus Harvard" which would be better? Sydney: international first rate education, prestigious, fantastic city, warm climate, opportunities to see the far east, inexpensive.

Harvard: very expensive, good education, very prestigious, cold damp climate, lots of snobs, very crowded city, close to Europe.

Hmmmm. I'll take Sydney.

 

[miler]

This thread prompted me to look on the U of Sydney website, and I am now very interested in applying to their school, as I am considering SGU as well. However, what is the degree that is granted by U of Syd? It doesn't look like it is exactly a MD degree, although I could be wrong. How is this degree looked at by US residencies, etc.? Thanks for your help.

 

[skypilot]

You get an MBBS which is a bachelors degree in medicine but equivalent to an MD in the U.S.

You will be considered an FMG by residency directors which may keep you out of the most competitive programs but with a good score on the USMLE you should be fine.

There is a Flinders grad doing a Derm Residency at UMass Medical right now.

 

[stephew]

"Living in Sydney, chilling on Bondi Beach, watching the beautiful girls go by, hitting the bars with your buddies - enjoying life.

vs.

Sequestered on a campus on a remote Carribean Island for two years staring at the same hundred or so faces day in, day out going stir crazy..."

erm.... this is wrong on so many levels...but what can you do.

 

[skypilot]

Originally posted by stephew
"
Sequestered on a campus on a remote Carribean Island for two years staring at the same hundred or so faces day in, day out going stir crazy..."

erm.... this is wrong on so many levels...but what can you do.

Steph, as a SGU grad I assume that you are defending SGU not denying the appeal of living and studying in Sydney. Obviously SGU has several factors in its favor which include excellent prep for the USMLE and two years of clinical rotations in the United States.

But Australia and PBL would work very well for certain types of students. (Diligent, independent, self motivated)

 

[stephew]

Skypilot: I meant only what I said.

 

[TexasGuy41]

Listen - if you want to just chill out and party and hit the bars, then just move to Sydney or some other cool city and put med school off for a few years. But if you want to be a doctor, in the US, with a good residency, then at some point you have to suck it up and work hard and not party that much. If that means going to an island like grenada - then so be it. Don't be fooled by these people talking about how great life is in Australia- there are a few horror stories out there - specifically about Flinders if you do a search on this forum. I'm not putting the Aussie schools down, but its not like its a 4 year party and then they hand you an MD and send you off to a nice residency at UCSF. If we're talking about saving money.....why not just take 5 grand - enroll in your local state school, redo all your pre-med classes, take Kaplan, rock the MCAT - and then go to school in the US?

 

[skypilot]

Originally posted by TexasGuy41
I'm not putting the Aussie schools down, but its not like its a 4 year party and then they hand you an MD and send you off to a nice residency at UCSF. why not just take 5 grand - enroll in your local state school, redo all your pre-med classes, take Kaplan, rock the MCAT - and then go to school in the US?

I agree, don't go to Australia just because you couldn't get admitted in the US. They only have about 20 spots for Americans in Sydney anyway so I don't think being admitted is a trivial matter, most of the spots go to Canadians.

Some people want an international education and the low cost at Sydney is just the icing on the cake.

 

[TexasGuy41]

I agree. I respect those that willingly travel overseas for their medical education - I think its a great experience. However, for those out there that simply want to get an MD and then practice in the states - a school like SGU is exactly what they should look for. Sure, they cram the USMLE down your throat, but its for a reason - they want you to get a good residency. Aussie schools educate Aussie students who want to be Aussie doctors. Not that it isn't possible to go there as a US citizen and then return - its just that it takes some work and personal initiative. That said, I would love to spend 4 years on the beach in Sydney - but for me I'd rather do it on a study abroad program based at a US med school so I know that I've got something good waiting for me back home. Just my .02, good luck to everyone figuring out their destiny! -TG

 

[stephew]

While SGU unquestioningly aims to have their students prepared to pass the USMLE, don't make the mistake of thinking it is one big board review class. There is a great interest among the faculty and admin in turning out skilled doctors who understand medicine. In fact I'd say one big difference that isn't appreciate between SGU (and like schools) and say Aussie or Irish schools for example is that of the student body; I do believe you will naturally find more students with a single-minded focus on the USMLE at sgu than Flinders/UCD/RCS; not all indeed, but proportionally speaking, I would not be at all surprised to find that at schools where they are not thinking of preparing you for the USMLE, you find less students who are singled minded about that too. I would suggest that those only fixed on the step 1 and boards are less likely to be comprehensive physicians and less likely to have a lasting knowledge of the material.

What's percieved by some as *too much* Usmle focus at scools like sgu should probably be rethought as too umch focus by *some of the students* at sgu compared with those at European/Austrailian schools.

 

[skypilot]

Originally posted by stephew
I would suggest that those only fixed on the step 1 and boards are less likely to be comprehensive physicians and less likely to have a lasting knowledge of the material.

One advantage at Flinders too is that the students live practically on the hospital grounds and get clinical experience from day one.

Assuming (by spending more time in the library than the bars and the beaches) they can also somehow find the time to ace their board exams, they will be really competent and well trained diagnosticians by the end of the four years.

 

[stephew]

well ceratinly at sgu living "on campus" is a moot point during rotations as you are in the us and there is no sgu "campus". but then its better than being a student at some us schools where you *have* to live on campus by the hospital, and its in the 'hood!

 

[viraj2]

Which hospital(s) is/are best for doing the core rotations for SGU students?

Thanks,

Viraj

 

[USMedStudent]

Hi folks,

Some day when I am done with my training, I may collect the materials and write a book about horror stories at international med schools. I'm sure it'll be a best-seller. It may be more horrifying than a Stephen King's. A snapshot would be something like:

Caribbean schools are interested more in making money than in educating their students. Students can't usually sue their Caribbean schools, though.

Aus schools are interested in money AND in failing all international Asian students. Racism is in Aussies' blood, and sponsored by all levels of the Aus government. Just look at the politicians there. Anyone in Aus cabinet is Asian? At least, though, AMERICAN Asian students can sue their Aus schools. One just did and after one day of giving evidence, got a settlement out of court for an undisclosed amount of money. The Australian Prime Minister would trade his right arm for a meeting with President Bush so politics does play into the issue if AMERICAN students could get some support from their state politicians (Senator, Congressman), such as a letter of support if they would want to bring their Aus schools to court for unfair treatment.

Ireland and Eastern Europe schools are well-established. They fail a large percentage of students but usually they do so regardless of race, ethnicity. A friend of mine who went to a Hungarian school said only about 20 international students graduated in his class out of about 100 that started. Many exams were oral, so the faculty could fail anyone they want to.

Come on, folks, it shoudln't take a genius to see the ultimate motivations of international med schools. They're there with one and only one purpose: to make MONEY out of ya. Aus schools have an additional purpose, one of manipulating the skin color of their graduates. Many Aussies feel threatened by the over-representation of Asian businessmen, scholars, in their country.

Needless to say, the quality of education from international med schools are no where close to that of US med schools. Just from the standpoint of money, US med schools spend more money on med students than what they get from their tuition. Opportunities for research are always available. I am doing a Ph.D. on top of my MD, something I could have done concurrently if I had gone to a US med school, and that would have saved me at least 3 years and hundreds of thousands of dollars. The Medical Scientist Training Program would have covered all tuition and personal expenses. One mistake I'd bring to my grave is I didn't spend more time to apply to US med schools. With 34-T on MCATs and a degree from the Ivies, I could have got into a lot of US med schools, but I didn't try hard enough, long enough. I gave up after only 1 try, and that time I applied only to MD-Ph.D. program and only to the top 10.

So, my sincerest, bottom-of-the-heart advice: if you are Asian, don't ever step your foot in Australia. Last thing you want is to go where you're least, or even not, wanted collectively by most people in your new city, country. It may only take ONE of them at the right time at the right place to make your life a living hell. That person may be the Dean of your school, a lecturer, a grader of your exams. You'll be hopeless and helpless down there, at their mercy. Of course there're exceptions, but most likely you'll be screwed by the resentful OZs. If you must go abroad for med education, you can toss a coin and no matter what you get, where you go, statistically more often than not you'll be cheated out of your shirt for substandard education. You may still graduate and become great med scientists but that's YOUR geniuses that do it not your school which may already be closed or be sued out of business by the time you become board-certified anyway.

So, for those that are going abroad for med education... if you come back here all in one piece with a degree, you'll have achieved more than any US-based med students do in their life time. Be very very careful, very very afraid, and just get the he*l back here as soon as you can. If you graduate abroad, I am sure you'll all be great docs or med scientists because after enduring international med schools, the rest of your life is easy.

 

[skypilot]

Originally posted by USMedStudent
Hi folks,

You may still graduate and become great med scientists but that's YOUR geniuses that do it not your school

If you graduate abroad, I am sure you'll all be great docs or med scientists because after enduring international med schools, the rest of your life is easy.

Exactly, it is all up to you. And you will be a great doc if you go abroad!

There were quite a few gross generalizations were in the above post lumping every international med school together!

 

[Winged Scapula]

Originally posted by USMedStudent

Aus schools are interested in money AND in failing all international Asian students.

While I don't dispute that there tends to be more overt racism in Oz than seen in the US, I have to object not only to the gross generalisations in this post but to the fact that the statement above is untrue.

I cannot speak about the events of the past year (which have been thoroughly digested in this forum - I suspect by this same poster, under another name), strangely enough EVERY Asian student in my year and the year prior to me passed - it was actually some Caucasian students (both Aussie, Kiwi and American) who did not. In the year behind me, a female of Asian descent did fail - however, without telling too many tales out of school, knowing this individual, I am not suprised and am fairly sure it had nothing to do with her race.

At any rate, please refrain from making gross generalisations...although most of the intelligent SDN members will see your post for what it is.

 

[USMedStudent]

For all that doubt, I have one and only one name on this forum. Unlike someone from Flinders that demeans just about every Asian that their school failed them, I take a very heart-felt approach and bring out what's not trivial at all about the situation in Australia. In one post last year, that person said an Indian American wrote too Robbins-like essays to pass the year. Now that person said another Asian female didn't deserve to pass either.

As if that person actually graded their paper.

That shows what sort of people that would fit into Australian med schools profile: must be blindly unreasonably unconditionally faithful to the schools.

Australian med schools are like country clubs, like cults. They create the atmosphere composed of in-groups and out-groups. The in-groups include White American females (Aus male consultants love to flirt with them), White Australians and New Zealanders. The out-groups include everyone else, nammely White American males, Indian Americans, Asians, Aboriginal people, Asian and Indian Australians. If you belong to the in-groups, you enjoy a sort of American-styled Affirmative Action. It's a sin to even say anything negative about you. Aussie male consultants (most consultants are white males in that country) would flirt with American white females many of whom know their inflated values after the first week of school, I guess it's one of their basic instincts. I noticed many such females suddenly dyed their hair blonde--the preferred hair color in OZ--and they attracted attention everywhere they showed up, as if they were a sort of sudden American celebrities that cared to go down under.

Meanwhile if someone else who as much as voices his or her suggestion, recommendation, to the schools, he or she would be construed as anti-Australian and that will be very damaging to their career, chances for success. Out-group people get little cooperation in the wards, in the lecturers' office. Their questions may be ignored or thrown back to them in lectures. Their emails requesting appointments for questions and answers are either declined or not responded. Fornally it's as such, informally in the wards the reception is even worse. Like I said, racism is sponsored by the Australian government, so patients even young ones learn that very well, and it's savoir vivre to talk down to out-group people.

An Indian friend of mine was in the ward with a group of students and a consultant. A white patient said to the consultant she wanted to be treated quickly for her pruritus, because she wouldn't want to get dark scrachy skin "like that man" (pointing the finger to my friend). The group and even the consultant were speechless.

On exams especially on clinical exams, such things happen all the time. Patients show overt discomfort when examining by out-group students. Consultants may or may not be racist, but when patients show discomfort they must take note, and when patients don't cooperate the out-group students may have a hard time to do the job, again the consultants must take note. Then in year 3 clinical exams, patients can give marks to students and of course they give horrible marks to the outcast out-groups.

This issue is not trivial. That WILL affect the life, career, of many prospective students that are exploring where to invest their 4 years and $200,000. I take this very seriously, very conscienciously. There's no room for blind faith, unsensible defending or offending anyone, any institutions. Australian med schools are GREAT schools, for their own people, for their own in-groups. That's been true for many decades, ever since the hard-core criminals from England were shipped there to steal land from the Aboriginal people and form what's Australia today. That's their culture, their spirit, their soul, their sine qua non conditions for what's Australian, and we all should respect that. Without that they wouldn't be Australian any more.

That's how they build their country, for the in-groups.

 

[poly]

I dont doubt your comments. Only those who have felt it truly understand and are cognizant.

So, now what? Now you'll never be part of the in-group! Not that's there is anything wrong with that.

p.

 

[trkd]

Hey moderator, this thread should be moved to the KKK forum. What on earth is going on here? I am an American going to USYD right now and I cannot believe what I am hearing. True, I am not asian or indian but I have not heard such comments from anyone (asian and indian included) about their experiences here. And why should people choose medical schools based on the ease of being able to sue the school. It sounds to me like this USMedStudent guy has it out for Australia because of something beyond the quality of the education received (maybe an asian prostitute gave him a VD or something). Whatever the angle on this guy is, it is very off. He may have had a bad experience in Australia, but that does not mean that everyone else will. I think that one must consider the previous posts concerning the differences in educational curriculum stated above to make their decision between the schools, NOT some guy that had great stats but wasn't accepted to any MD/PHD programs because he was a whining prick. (I checked out USMedStudent's profile to see where he went to school because he claims to know about ALL the Oz schools. If you don't believe the part about him being a prick, check his profile to see his previous posts, it makes for a good laugh ).

 

[poly]

Originally posted by trkd
Hey moderator, this thread should be moved to the KKK forum. What on earth is going on here? I am an American going to USYD right now and I cannot believe what I am hearing. True, I am not asian or indian but I have not heard such comments from anyone (asian and indian included) about their experiences here. And why should people choose medical schools based on the ease of being able to sue the school. It sounds to me like this USMedStudent guy has it out for Australia because of something beyond the quality of the education received (maybe an asian prostitute gave him a VD or something). [rest snipped]

...and these asians and indians should come to you with such comments because you have the magic power to resolve the issues??? because you dont have VD???

 

[crackerj]

Hello.

This is an Asian international student who is currently studying Bachelor of Science (advanced) in the University of Sydney. I'm applying to Aussie med schools and US MD/PhD med schools in this year.

What USMedStudent has said is a gross generalisation and crap. How would he/she explain those Asian international students who are receiving scholarships from their universities? How will he/she explain those Asian doctors who are successful and have been well-respected in the Australian society?

I had an opportunity to attend the scholarship ceremony in the University of Sydney in 2002, since I was one of the recipients. I saw 7 international medical students and 2 dentistry students who received scholarship. And guess what? 3 of them were Asians.

As long as an individual good, no matter what his/her race or the background is, that person will be well respected in the Australian society.

For example, Doctor Victor Chang, who was born in China, was one of the best heart surgeons in Australia and was also the Australian of the year in many years ago. I read a magazine one day and he ranked number one in the list of the well-respected Australians.

If Aussies are racists or whatsoever, how would you explain this, USMedStudent?

And there are other numerous examples that Asian doctors are well respected and successful in Australia.

Probably at the time USMedStudent was studying in Australia, those Asian students were not good enough. Himself/herself may be not good enough to get into the MD/PhD program in the US anyways with the 34T MCAT score, because I've heard that an applicant has to be one of the best in terms of MCAT score as well as research experience...(if one of them is not good enough, the other has to be best).

So I think I have to be sympathetic towards USMedStudent about his/her comments, which can only be heard/observed from rejects.

 

[poly]

I don't know about USMedStudent and I have the feeling he can defend himself. But I do know what you wrote makes no sense to me.

You are saying that Aussies are not "racists or whatsoever" by how they treat the "best"?

And since you feel that USMedStudent is not good enough for the US medical schools, and since he did get accepted in Australia, are you saying that Australian schools have lower standards than US schools?


p.

 

[crackerj]

Dear poly..

I think you have to know the difference between 'getting in' and 'the quality' (i.e. standards) of a school ..... your statement just assumes that 'getting in' is equivalent to the quality or standards of a university (maybe it is dependent on what you meant by 'standard' but it's not my important point anyways, read further..).

However my statement was purely based on 'getting in' in terms of the requirements. It is true that it is very hard to get into the US MD/PhD programs (I did not say or discuss anything about MD programs and you should know the difference if you are from US); 34T (what USMedStudent has got) may be not enough to get in those MD/PhD programs without extensive research experience..

Not only MD programs in Australia, but also MD programs in US and anywhere else, are 'relatively easier' to 'get in' - (If you dont know, please read carefully in MSTP bulletin) than MD/PhD programs in the world. But of course, both of them are hard to get in (you will know the difference clearly if you scored okay in verbal MCAT).

All med. schools have their own reputation and quality in their regions and in the world. Therefore they are not comparable in terms of 'the quality' (standards).. Above all, students continue to develop throughout their school life even after they get into med schools.... so you are also assuming that no development can be made after a person gets into a medical school.

Regarding 'the best' argument, What I am saying is that if Australians are racist (which is claimed by USMedStudent "That's their culture, their spirit, their soul"), they would not have treated well and respected those 'successful' Asian descents regardless of their achievement.

By the way, the word, 'successful' also implies that a person is well-respected in the society, doesn't it?. If the society does not accept a person, how could that person be successful?

Poly, USMedStudent did get into MD in Australia, but not MD/PhD, which is also available in Australia. If he is really interested in, he would have got into MD/PhD in Australian med schools (which is a 6-year course). This clearly shows that I'm not comparing between Australian med schools and US med schools. If you don't get me, think about it.

I've got a lot of Aussie friends.... they are polite, good to get along with, and I enjoy to get along with them. Don't insult them and forget this racist crap.

Next time don't judge based on the statement that I didn't even have made. I clearly stated MD/PhD program in the US, not MD program in the US (in that case, USMedStudent would have got into the MD program in the US). It seems that you don't even know about MD/PhD program in the US and in that case, read MSTP bulletin.

- crackerj.

 

[leorl]

I think everyone reading this thread should take what the posters have said with a grain of salt. Especially when going to a new country, everyone is going to have different experiences, and different ways of perceiving their experiences. While the posters are illustrating their points of view, and highlighting perhaps relevant issues, you can't take their perceptions at face value and accept them as fact.

Racism occurs everywhere. I have a hard time believing that it occurs to the extent that USmed says, but it's pretty well known that asians may experience a bit in Australia, even though there are so many of them. I forget what that movie is called with Russel Crowe in it, but it's like the Aussie version of American History X (only it's between whites and asians). But if the UK and Irish schools treat asians fairly equally, I have a hard time seeing how things could be so different in the Aussie schools, which see quite a few professors/demonstrators/teachers who are either from the UK system, or have done work in the UK/Ireland.

 

[poly]

Quite frankly, crackerj, I agree with leorl. Racism is everywhere and USMedStudent is reacting strongly to it.

I won't point out the holes in your arguments. There are subtle things in life, and you seem so content.


p.

 

[skypilot]

Is it true that the U of Sydney does not offer Anatomy dissection lab? How would this affect US students who want to do a residency in surgery? I understand that Flinders offers dissection.

Thanks
Sky

 

[UofA man]

I have been told that anatomy is not a core course at Flinders, but rather an option you may take during your 2nd year, however most people wind up taking this elective.

 

[skypilot]

Thanks U of A

Dissection lab at U of Sydney? Anyone?

 

[trkd]

No dissection lab. Just prosections, which means that they are already dissected for you. For example, if we are studying a shoulder injury in PBL that week, the anatomy lab will have several prosections of upper bodies, shoulder regions, etc. dissected to various extents. You generally end up with your PBL group around a table with a number of body parts to pull at and look around in.

 

[skypilot]

A number of top US schools (e.g. UCSF) have dropped anatomy dissection from the curriculum. There are a couple of recent threads on SDN regarding the value of anatomy dissection.

Thanks for the info TKRD and Flindophile!

 

[crackerj]

It is interesting to hear that Usyd Med does not have a dissection session. But it is available to science students in Usyd who are doing visceral anatomy and head/neck anatomy.... Also it seems that it is available to Usyd dentistry students...

But I don't get one thing.... In Usyd, the 'prosector' exam is held annually (and you get the qualification to be a prosector if you pass) and I saw some Usyd med students who have registered for that exam...doesn't that mean dissection will be taught in a certain stage of the medical curriculum? Forgive me if I'm overassuming..

 

[vegemitosis]

I have deleted my messages because someone from the board here keeps sending me a virus. I am done posting on this board.

Whoever you are, please stop doing that. It is irritating, and it doesn't work.

V-

 

[trkd]

Originally posted by vegemitosis

do you find it interesting that many of the people posting here, attend the Aussie school that they defend so vigorously.

Maybe because we like the program we are in. I agree that going overseas was not the first choice for most of us. However, there is not much point in spending 4 years bitching about it. After starting the program, I found that it was much better than I thought. Sure, I would have preferred to stay where I was in the US, but I found Australia to be a good alternative. So posting here is a good way to spread the word that the program is alright. We are not claiming that everyone should choose our school over Stanford. Personally, I couldn't care less if people wanted to come here or not. I will still get the degree I am looking for. Just trying to help. This is the IMG forum and we are talking about foreign schools. So comments made here are all relative. I don't hear many people claiming that any foreign schools are better than Harvard or Johns Hopkins. But I see your point. However, for people who must choose from a foreign school, comparisons to US schools are helpful so that you can get an idea of what the program is like. And about the culture in other countries (racism, friendliness, etc), these are important topics when deciding where to go. And when people make extreme claims about countries as a whole, people attending school in those countries are moved to defend their school. I urge people to be cautious when reading extreme claims, either good or bad. Any comments made on this forum are just opinions and should be taken as just that.

Originally posted by vegemitosis
It is understandable that people must defend the AUS programs. After all they are returning home after they leave here and need the schools to be held in high regard since they graduated from the program.

Fortunately for me and other IMGs, none of you reading this thread or forum will likely be the program directors at residency programs I want to get into. So it doesn't much matter. I and many others post on the IMG forum in order to help people make a tough decision. Taking up my time to post or respond to PMs is of no benefit to me. Again, just trying to help. Everything here is subjective.

 

[markdc]

Originally posted by vegemitosis


PLEASE be sure of what you are getting into. Don't even take my advice, search it out for yourself. Check other websites and make an INFORMED decision!!!!!!!

Best wishes

So what web pages are you referring to? I haven't found much in ways of forums or webpages devoted to IMGs in Australia. If you or anyone else would like to share these links, by all means post them...

I myself can see some concerns about PBL. It's not just the Aus schools that are jumping on this bandwagon. Many schools in the US and Canada have added some of this to their curriculum. I don't think it is the best way to teach but then again I don't get much out of lectures. However at least with lectures you are not assigned to a group of individuals that may be entirely useless and forced to spend time together for attendence points.

Up until now the only negative post I have read has been from USMEDstudent or whatever his name was. If there are others that have legitimate concerns about these schools please let us know since it isn't easy to hear from current students.

One thing I don't understand vegemitosis, you say Sydney is a great place to live but it sounds like you are mostly complaining about Flinders. Which school do you attend and do you wish you had chosen a non-PBL oriented school?

 

[skypilot]

Here's that Flinders grad with a coveted Derm residency at Umass. Looks like he graduated in 2000 then did some post graduate work before starting.

http://www.umassmed.edu/derm/residency/residents/

 

[skypilot]

Originally posted by vegemitosis

Aus schools are ok as medical schools. Average, in my humble opinion. Those who compare them to US schools are just disappointed they did not get in there.

PLEASE be sure of what you are getting into. Don't even take my advice, search it out for yourself. Check other websites and make an INFORMED decision!!!!!!!

People will attack me for informing you.

Thanks for the excellent post. It is great to hear a perspective from someone who has been there. If I get into Harvard I won't go to Australia.

I understand that Flindophile is happier in Australia than at SGU but he would have chosen the US over both of them and SGU definitely has the advantage of 2 solid years of rotations in ACGME hospitals in the US.

 

[vegemitosis]

I have deleted my messages because someone from the board here keeps sending me a virus. I am done posting on this board

Whoever you are, please stop doing that. It is irritating, and doesn't work.

V-

 

[Winged Scapula]

Originally posted by USMedStudent
For all that doubt, I have one and only one name on this forum. Unlike someone from Flinders that demeans just about every Asian that their school failed them, I take a very heart-felt approach and bring out what's not trivial at all about the situation in Australia. In one post last year, that person said an Indian American wrote too Robbins-like essays to pass the year. Now that person said another Asian female didn't deserve to pass either.

As if that person actually graded their paper.

That shows what sort of people that would fit into Australian med schools profile: must be blindly unreasonably unconditionally faithful to the schools.

Since it is obvious you are referring to me, I shall take the time to briefly respond. However, it will be my last communique on the subject.

You are right - I did NOT grade the papers of the Asian female I referred to in an earlier post. However, I did have the opportunity to study with her and observe her closely on MANY occasions (as she was a close friend of one of my flatmates) and it was obvious to me and many others (as we had lengthy discussions about it) that her fund of knowledge was greatly lacking. I'm not sure if she "deserved" to fail, but I cannot say I was suprised when I learned she did as it did not appear that she had the knowledge or skills to advance to the next year.

I am not sure if you are referring to something I said when you speak of the "Indian American who wrote 'Robbin's like exams" but I can say with some confidence that many students who simply parroted what they memorized out of a textbook, without learning the clinical correlations or actually answering what the question asked, did not do well on Flinders exams. This includes many Caucasian students.

Lest you fear I doubt the existence of racism in Australia, I do not as I stated earlier. And lest you also fear that I blindly support Flinders, I do not. One of my flatmates, as Caucasian as you could be, had a difficult time getting through Flinders - and while I acknowledge that perhaps he too fell into the 'Robbins-type answer" group, I do believe that he was treated unfairly in many respects. I understand that there are a few more Caucasians in the same boat, some current and some in my class.

I hope this clarifies things for you and others.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Originally posted by leorl
I forget what that movie is called with Russel Crowe in it, but it's like the Aussie version of American History X (only it's between whites and asians).

The film was "Romper Stomper".

 

[Winged Scapula]

Originally posted by vegemitosis
Hello,

PBL has its ups and downs. Ask Kim Cox what a visiting professor had to say about it. He basically said it was like watching a bunch of monkeys trying to F***K a football. (Use your imagination) Students constantly misinform each other, and you have to site there. But students do bring in food and that helps if you haven't eaten breakfast. The TIM TAMS here are great cookies!!! PBL is mandatory attendance here, just like highschool. They even take roll! Two misses and you are up the proverbial creek without a paddle.

I could not agree more. While I still believe in the promise of PBL, IMHO it is only effective for certain fields (ie, clinical medicine) and only if the "facilitator/tutor" actually does some tutelage. I found them entirely useless for learning except as a guide to the topic. They were more social than anything and you could not count on others to give you accurate information or to present it in a meaningful manner.

Lectures are overall below average. Many lecturers are completely unprepared, and it shows. Sometimes we start 20 minutes late because a lecturer cannot get the powerpoint presentation started. Just ask FLINDOPHILE how many lectures he attends. Something that has recently manifest here is the lack of lecture notes given out. This is because the school has decided that they don't want to purchase the license to distribute copyrighted notes. Taking notes is not an option, since they move so fast throught the slides that at times it becomes nauseating.

Ditto. We almost never got lecture notes and the ones that were passed out were generally crap. They tried to "force" the faculty to provide us something but never enforced it.

Here it is very difficult to get just two 4th year rotations there.

That suprises me - I spent the last six months of my 4th year doing US based electives ; perhaps things have changed since then.

As for the USMLE, there is no HARD evidence that Students at Flinders do as well as US students. IT is just conjecture. We don't even have a site for sitting the USMLE here. Students must fly to Sydnet to get to an assessment center. SO there is another 300 dollars, plus the additinal NBME fee for delivering the exam to AUS.

I'm not sure what the latter has to do with the former. The students I know who did very well on the USMLE spent almost all of their time studying for it, often to the detriment of their clinical experience - we actually had some trouble with students not showing up for 3rd year rotations and instead staying home and studying for the USMLE.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Originally posted by vegemitosis

As for PBL, it has its ups and downs, as I said before. It should not be mandatory.

When I started, they weren't. Maybe they never considered the fact that many would simply choose not to show up.

Unfortunately, when the majority of the group finds other things to do rather than attend PBL, its unfair to the rest of the group, people who may find it useful. So they started making it mandatory - I simply went, but didn't see it as a valuable source of information. I went for the Tim Tams.

 

[crackerj]

Hello.

I've just got an interview from Flinders university and It will be held in next month (in August).

For the students or graduates of Flinders, would it be possible if you could kindly give me some specific advice on the Flinders interview? Such as what questions I may be asked in the interview etc...

Thank you.

-crackerj

 

[vegemitosis]

I have deleted my messages because someone from the board here keeps sending me a virus. I am done posting on this board.

Whoever you are, please stop doing that. It is irritating, and it doesn't work.

V-