St.Christophers medical school

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I think all it would take to clear up any sort of controversy and doubt would be if St. Chris could publish a list of their graduates and where they ended up for residency, and in which fields. And if more st. chris people could come on here and tell us their experiences with the faculty, what day to day learning is like, and more personal experiences instead of things that just sound like propaganda.

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> The school has lic grads now and even one who will sit for the plab in England.

Wow, even ONE who WILL sit for the PLAB ! Call us back if your school has a graduate in a registrar position in the UK ( a real one, with national training number).
 
f_w said:
> The school has lic grads now and even one who will sit for the plab in England.

Wow, even ONE who WILL sit for the PLAB ! Call us back if your school has a graduate in a registrar position in the UK ( a real one, with national training number).
Uh St. Chris was set up for USA students to become Doctors not UK. So now Uk students who cannot get into medical school here are starting to come, The school has 10+ UK and a few European students attending. The school is only 5 years old. I will be happy to post anything I have permission to post, This is a public forum and until I'm told I can disclose infromation I will not jeopardize myself and education just to satisfy an aurgument here.

Some of this can be found on google, I found grads from St. Chris that way. It took a little time though.

Bottom line got a better choice then go there, don't go to St. Chris.
Make sure the other school has all the right things though, Charter, WHO and or IMED listing, FAIMER and ECFMG.

Cheers
 
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leorl said:
I think all it would take to clear up any sort of controversy and doubt would be if St. Chris could publish a list of their graduates and where they ended up for residency, and in which fields. And if more st. chris people could come on here and tell us their experiences with the faculty, what day to day learning is like, and more personal experiences instead of things that just sound like propaganda.

I presented 2 lists 2 pages back, one from this year alone and another an assortment of matches of people who were willing to share their info. So then is it all cleared up?
 
whuds said:
Uh St. Chris was set up for USA students to become Doctors not UK. So now Uk students who cannot get into medical school here are starting to come, The school has 10+ UK and a few European students attending. The school is only 5 years old. I will be happy to post anything I have permission to post, This is a public forum and until I'm told I can disclose infromation I will not jeopardize myself and education just to satisfy an aurgument here.

Some of this can be found on google, I found grads from St. Chris that way. It took a little time though.

Bottom line got a better choice then go there, don't go to St. Chris.
Make sure the other school has all the right things though, Charter, WHO and or IMED listing, FAIMER and ECFMG.

Cheers
hey

thanks for the honest answer from someone who goes there.
 
bts4202 said:
I presented 2 lists 2 pages back, one from this year alone and another an assortment of matches of people who were willing to share their info. So then is it all cleared up?

Well, if you're going to go back to your original post, I'd like to reiterate mine (perhaps f_w can chime in as well):

Those are not close to anything approaching match lists.

The school's explanation is quite frankly implausible ("protecting their grads from exploitation" -- who is exploiting whom?), especially when considering that competitors (SGU, Ross, Saba just to mention a few) seem to have no problems putting up much more complete lists.
 
Miklos said:
Well, if you're going to go back to your original post, I'd like to reiterate mine (perhaps f_w can chime in as well):

Those are not close to anything approaching match lists.

The school's explanation is quite frankly implausible ("protecting their grads from exploitation" -- who is exploiting whom?), especially when considering that competitors (SGU, Ross, Saba just to mention a few) seem to have no problems putting up much more complete lists.

well, from what I provided there was at least 50-60 examples in total. That is plenty of examples to get an idea of where people are going and what they are doing. If what a prospective student requires is every single graduate accounted for on their website, then attend a different school...
 
Hey all

Well like anything or any school; buyer beware. Check out the school before you go there, talk to grads or students who are currently there. Talk to the local governing body for that organization and see what they say. Find out where the grads are and how they have faired on exams such as the USMLE. Where did they match. What is the general concensus about that school?

Its a big step to goto med school, and pricey at that. Make sure your getting your monies worth.

Thats the moral of this story.
 
Mike MacKinnon said:
Hey all

Well like anything or any school; buyer beware. Check out the school before you go there, talk to grads or students who are currently there. Talk to the local governing body for that organization and see what they say. Find out where the grads are and how they have faired on exams such as the USMLE. Where did they match. What is the general concensus about that school?

Its a big step to goto med school, and pricey at that. Make sure your getting your monies worth.

Thats the moral of this story.

Worse, (even if you self-study your way through the USMLEs) your diploma will follow you around until the end of your career.

When your diploma prevents licensure in multiple states, then IMO your money is wasted.
 
neilc said:
hahhaa! did you fail to read gabes post that this was a reply to? or did you just wait for him to edit it? if you think what i said was a personal attack, you must have been utterly disgusted with his attack on azskeptic...
Of course no one would personally attack azskeptic but virtually there are lots of brave folks like BTS attacing me constantly. Easier to attack me than face the reality of the questions asked about St. Chris, Kigezi, AIM, and other squatter schools in the UK
 
Leorl

This thread actually belongs into the 'Africa and Middle East' forum.
 
azskeptic said:
Of course no one would personally attack azskeptic but virtually there are lots of brave folks like BTS attacing me constantly. Easier to attack me than face the reality of the questions asked about St. Chris, Kigezi, AIM, and other squatter schools in the UK

please be brave enough to show me an attack on you personally?

and neilc, i did not see any attack by gabe, i only saw your post.
 
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i figured you didn't see it. but, as i recall it was very, very ugly. glad he did edit it.

the kinder, gentler neilc is leaving the past in the past and staying out of arguments as best he can....i think by now my position is pretty well established on these things. :)

good luck with interviews bts
 
neilc said:
i figured you didn't see it. but, as i recall it was very, very ugly. glad he did edit it.

the kinder, gentler neilc is leaving the past in the past and staying out of arguments as best he can....i think by now my position is pretty well established on these things. :)

good luck with interviews bts

yeah, I agree. Good luck with interviews! :D
 
Looks like graduates of St Christopher are in hot water in the UK as the school is under investigation with it's alleged Senegal links.
I can't understand how a school can get away with this sham. Looks like the wool has been pulled off the eyes of the GMC

http://www.gmc-uk.org/education/undergraduate/studying_medicine_at_undergraduate_level.asp

St. Christopher's College of Medicine, Luton
We are currently investigating this institution's affiliation to the St Christopher ‘s College of Medicine in Senegal. Until our investigations are complete we have suspended our acceptance of medical degrees awarded by this institution and/or any of it's affiliations. Please contact us for advice if you are currently studying or applying to study at this institution
 
Well, the GMC must respond to some of the other schools who are lying to students and doing things illegally.

St chris grads can not apply for a new license until this is sorted out. I have seen the list of questions that the GMC needs answered and st chris should be able to answer all of them and include proof with ease. What the GMC is doing is very understandable, since they only want to ensure quality. I look forward to seeing what they say after they have done a thorough review.
 
As a UK citizen, what I object to most strongly is the fact that students at St. Christophers (or any other foreign "medical school" based here in the UK) are able to gain clinical experience in our state (NHS) hospitals. Whilst these students may be "supervised" they are still coming into contact with patients, talking to them, taking their histories and examining them yet their "medical schools" have not been assessed by any government authority. These students are therefore potentially unfit to carry out these skills. In my opinion this is grossly unacceptable. From a radio programme about this issue broadcast this morning, it appears that these schools have not been assessed by any professional bodies, UK or foreign, and are in fact self-regulating. This is a dangerous state of affairs.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4410020.stm


Do patients get asked if they are willing to consent to a "medical student" from an unregulated, foreign educational institution asking them personal information and performing initimate physical examination on them? I doubt that very much!

These instititions must be thoroughly investigated and if found not not to be meeting the exact same criteria set for UK university medical schools, should be shut down and their students refused access to NHS hospitals and their patients.
 
There are probably about 6-7 students from st chris who do any clinicals in the Uk every year (most do clins in the USA). What about the hundreds of students from AUC and other carribean medical schools with even less oversight who do clinicals in the UK. In fact, some of those schools send virtually ALL of their students to do clinicals in the UK.
 
bts4202 said:
There are probably about 6-7 students from st chris who do any clinicals in the Uk every year (most do clins in the USA). What about the hundreds of students from AUC and other carribean medical schools with even less oversight who do clinicals in the UK. In fact, some of those schools send virtually ALL of their students to do clinicals in the UK.

IMO that is equally unacceptable. I firmly believe that unless a medical school is rigorously vetted and approved by the GMC then they have no right to be sending their students to practise (even under supervision) on patients in our healthcare system. Whilst most, if not all these students, may be educated to a similar standard as UK students, we have no evidence that that is so unless their educational institutions and the curricula they offer are regulated. It potentially places patients at risk and this must not be tolerated.
 
Waiting4Ganong said:
They have no legitimate reason whatsoever to be in the UK.

Well, the one thing I have to say to that, is please read the contents of the UK Education Reform Act of 1988. That will explain our legal permission to operate just as we are.
 
That will explain our legal permission to operate just as we are.

(again, I don't buy your story that you are a student there. Every time you get upset and try to rebutt criticism, you fall into the first person plural to describe the activities of the school. you are much more likely to be a lower level administrator or PR employee than a student)
 
bts4202 said:
Well, the one thing I have to say to that, is please read the contents of the UK Education Reform Act of 1988. That will explain our legal permission to operate just as we are.
I suspect most of us students do not have the time or inclination to wade through reams of Parliamentary Acts!! However, I have no doubt the GMC and NHS fraud squad will do just that now they are finally on the case of squatter schools. This will take time, as most legal proceedings do, and for that reason I do not think this issue will be resolved for months but most likely years. If this Act does indeed enable squatter "medical schools" to operate within the UK then that Act needs to be changed.

I suspect however, IF you are correct, it is a loophole in the Act or a misinterpretation of it. There is a BIG difference between opening, for example, a private language school in the UK and setting up a "medical school".

We could argue on here for ever about the rights and wrongs of running squatter medical schools but I firmly believe that the wind of change will now put a stop to their operation within the UK. Time will tell.
 
f_w said:
Leorl

This thread actually belongs into the 'Africa and Middle East' forum.

Not really since it appears their affiliation is bogus.
Is there a fantasyland forum?
Turf it there

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4410020.stm

Some medical degrees 'worthless'

By Matthew Chapman
BBC Radio Five Live


A BBC investigation has revealed that the General Medical Council has been recognising some British-based medical colleges that are offering worthless degrees.

The validity of the degrees of hundreds of doctors from another college, one of whom works as a surgeon in the NHS, has been seriously called into question.

The GMC has announced that it has suspended its recognition of the degrees of one Luton-based college and is investigating the status of four others.



The GMC has launched an inquiry following the BBC investigations


The UK has seen a boom in private medical colleges which use NHS facilities for training, but which eventually award degrees from foreign institutions.

These "squatter schools" have to be recognised by the GMC to allow their graduates to take its PLAB test, which then allows them to practise in the NHS.

There are now doubts about the validity of degrees awarded by St Christopher's College of Medicine in Luton, which currently has 400 medical students.

The GMC has given recognition to the college where students can pay up to £150,000.

Senegal

Despite its UK location, the college's degree awarding powers come from Senegal in West Africa and St Christopher's claims to have received this accreditation in 2000.

In an interview with the BBC, the director of the government's department of higher education, Momar Marieme Dieng, was asked if he was aware of any government accreditation for St Christopher's from 2000.

"No, not to my knowledge" he replied, although he said the government did award accreditation to a college called St Christopher - Iba Mar Diop medical college, which did not open in Senegal until 2003.

We are accredited, we are supported by the government of Senegal so I really don't know what to say over and above that

Allan Bain
St Christopher's

St Christopher's British campus, however, awarded dozens of medical degrees during this interim period, one to a surgeon who works in a west London NHS hospital.


"They may have started its activities even before getting their agreement," Mr Dieng said.

While the college claims to have received accreditation in February 2000, a Senegalese government letter obtained by the BBC, and dated seven months later, stressed that St Christopher's was starting on a process which might lead towards accreditation in the future, but that accreditation was not yet effective.

The Luton college says it is mystified by the statement from the senior government official.

The head of their UK operations, Allan Bain, said "We are accredited, we are supported by the government of Senegal so I really don't know what to say over and above that".

Government letter

On Friday afternoon the college founder, Paul Leone, showed the BBC a photocopy of what was said to be a letter from the Senegalese government accrediting St Christopher's as a medical college.

The BBC has so far been unable to verify the letter.

Mr Bain, who recently had £500,000 in damages awarded against him by a US court for libelling a rival medical college and poaching its students, also told the BBC that St Christopher's had regular visits from the Senegalese government to check on the quality of its teaching.

Mr Dieng, of the west African government's education ministry, said to his knowledge there are had been no checks on the college.

European College of Medicine

The graduates of a second British-based college called the European College of Medicine were also recognised by the GMC to take the PLAB test to become doctors in the UK.

The London college claimed its degrees were awarded from a medical school in Liberia.

However, the Liberian government told the BBC that no such medical school had ever existed there.

The college then told the GMC that its accreditation had switched to three respected Russian medical schools.

The GMC accepted this move and told would-be students that it once again accepted the medical degrees of the London-based college.

However, when the BBC contacted the Russian medical schools two of them denied any agreement had yet been reached, while one said it had never heard of the European College of Medicine.

No-one from the college replied to repeated requests for a comment.

Suspension

As a result of these revelations the General Medical Council announced that it had suspended its recognition of degrees awarded by St Christopher's while it investigates the college's accreditation in Senegal.

"We have immediately begun our own investigation, which centres on the possibility that private, UK-based, medical colleges have been inappropriately claiming that their courses would lead to the awarding of a medical qualification from a university," a spokeswoman said.

"We have suspended our acceptance of the relevant medical degrees.

"We have also asked the NHS Counter Fraud Service to assist us, and have amended the information on our website."
 
Kev (UK) said:
As a UK citizen, what I object to most strongly is the fact that students at St. Christophers (or any other foreign "medical school" based here in the UK) are able to gain clinical experience in our state (NHS) hospitals. Whilst these students may be "supervised" they are still coming into contact with patients, talking to them, taking their histories and examining them yet their "medical schools" have not been assessed by any government authority. These students are therefore potentially unfit to carry out these skills. In my opinion this is grossly unacceptable. From a radio programme about this issue broadcast this morning, it appears that these schools have not been assessed by any professional bodies, UK or foreign, and are in fact self-regulating. This is a dangerous state of affairs.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4410020.stm


Do patients get asked if they are willing to consent to a "medical student" from an unregulated, foreign educational institution asking them personal information and performing initimate physical examination on them? I doubt that very much!

These instititions must be thoroughly investigated and if found not not to be meeting the exact same criteria set for UK university medical schools, should be shut down and their students refused access to NHS hospitals and their patients.

Agreed. I worked my ass off to get into a UK medical school, so I find it deeply offensive that these fly-by-night operations are being allowed to set up here. By all means, let's have more medical schools in the UK, but please only ones that award degrees from British universities.
 
Well, there is not much I can say and do as proof that that article is untrue, however st chris has sent the GMC all the documents they have asked for prooving their case. I guess we will all know the answer in a couple weeks. I sure hope that some people are respectful enough to offer apologizes for their incredibly rude behavior and comments when all is said and done.
 
bts4202 said:
Well, there is not much I can say and do as proof that that article is untrue, however st chris has sent the GMC all the documents they have asked for prooving their case. I guess we will all know the answer in a couple weeks. I sure hope that some people are respectful enough to offer apologizes for their incredibly rude behavior and comments when all is said and done.

I certainly don't think what I have said is rude. If St. Christopher's awarded British degrees I would have no objection to it whatsoever. However it awards degrees from an African university. I have no idea how the system works but can't you guys find a British university to affiliate to? As I've said already, I worked my ass off to get into a British school, and I don't approve of these medical colleges being set up in the UK without actually being British. If you want a medical education in the UK, then go to a British university. It seems simple to me.
 
f_w said:
I find the links to someones earthlink homepage to 'proove' the existence of a Senegal campus somewhat amusing.

P.S.
If Obasanjo shakes your hand, it doesn't mean that he respects you....


I'd be worrying about what he's doing with the other hand.

Watch your wallet around Mr wango

After listening to the squatter school report on the BBC, I laughed out loud at those silly photos of those stooges from senegal.
They have no clue!
 
FungManX said:
Hi,


I'm just wondering a bit about this school..
What is the avg gpa/mcat of accepted applicants to the 4 year MD programme?

Does anyone know how residency spots in the states are like for people who have graduated from this school?

Thanks in advance

PLEASE DO NOT APPLY TO THIS SCHOOL!!! IT IS GARBAGE! I AM NOT AFFILIATED WITH ANY SCHOOL (AS ST. CHRIS' FACULTY TRY TO SAY). BUT ONE OF MY FRIENDS APPLIED THERE AND NOW THEIR TELEPHONE NUMBER IS DISCONNECTED!!!!!!! THEY ARE A HOAX AND YOU WILL BE A TERRIBLE DOCTOR IF YOU GO THERE! P.S. I HOPE YOU LIKE LEARNING FROM SOMEONE THAT CAN'T SPEAK ENGLISH!!
 
bts4202 said:
Well, there is not much I can say and do as proof that that article is untrue, however st chris has sent the GMC all the documents they have asked for prooving their case. I guess we will all know the answer in a couple weeks. I sure hope that some people are respectful enough to offer apologizes for their incredibly rude behavior and comments when all is said and done.


Is that why the GMC shut them down and has banned graduates?

St Chris is where these days?
Out of business?
Yep
 
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