Specialist pathway - moving to Australia...help needed!

[OncoSurg]

Hi,

I would like to hear some experience/opinion from you guys. I'm a fully trained brazilian surgical oncologist, which is a five year lenght residency program in Brazil. Now, I'm a brazilian board certified General Sugeon and Surgical Oncologist. I work as attending in a high volume cancer center here, same institution where I've been recently admitted as a PhD student in Oncology.

Despite the advances in economy, Brazil still lacks the social advances that build a fair society. Crime rate here is rising dramatically and my city is now ranked as the 13th most dangerous in the world.

Recently, I've decided to leave the country and move to a place where I could offer my family a better quality of life. To my knowledge, Australia seems a good place to start over. I've been accepted into med school very early and now I'm 29, so I don't think age will be an issue.

I've read the specialist pathway over and over, and the process seemed 'too simple', and I really don't think that's the case. I've downloaded the specialist pathway checklist and I'm working to fulfill the requirements.

I don't know anyone who has passed through theis process, so I've a lot of questions!

- What's your experience with the specialist pathway ? How does the process take ?
- Do you think I will be able to get a position (I mean, supervised position and after that, a job as attending) ?

When considering another country, I have some good contacts in USA, but I still consider Australia a better choice. That's why I'd like to hear from you, so I could put my efforts in the right direction.

Thx!

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[Leforte]

The Royal Australasian College of Surgeons has a pretty well laid out path towards Fellowship. Australia is a good country to practice in and takes pride in their surgical training. In order to move here, you would need to do the following:

1) Sit the IELTS - you cannot apply for registration unless you score 7 in all modules of the Academic exam.
2) Have your medical degree and qualifications assessed by the AMC under the specialist pathway
3) Submit documents through the AMC to the RACS and apply for an assessment - the fee is ~AUD$7,000 for this.
4) Attend an interview in Melbourne with the RACS - lasts about 45 minutes.
5) At this point, you will get a recommendation. It will likely be either "partially comparable" or "non comparable"
6) There may be issues with your surgical qualifications. Australians undergo 5 years of General Surgery training after about 3+ years as a junior doctor. They do not have a primary surgical qualification as a "surgical oncologist" and this is often done at the fellowship level. Because of this, if your training did not include all components that an Australian graduate would have completed during their training, you will either be deemed non comparable or there will be a recommendation for remedial training. Any remedial training will need to be completed during your assessment period and you'll have to look for a job in Australia to fulfil that requirement.
7) If you are deemed partially comparable, you can then look for a job - this will often be in an area outside of a capital city (you are also subject to a 10 year moratorium to work in an area of workforce shortage)
8) Once you have found the job, you can then get the hospital to sponsor you for a 457 visa - this is a temporary residency that is tied to your job. If for some reason you leave the job, or your contract is not renewed - you will have 30 days to either leave the country or find another position.
9) You will need to get the job approved by the RACS before applying for a license through AHPRA
10) You will then need to apply to AHPRA for a limited license for supervised practice.
11) You will then start 2 years of supervision - you will have 2 supervisors who will assess you and comment on your clinical and surgical abilities. If any deficiencies are noted, these will need to be corrected. The clinical assessment has 8 3-month periods where specific patient encounters in clinic are assessed, your theatre abilities are assessed, your overall progress as well as 360 degree evals every 6 months. You must submit a logbook of all operations during each period of assessment.
12) You will also need to participate in a continuing professional development program called MOPS while under supervision.
13) After a minimum of 9 months, you can be recommended to take the fellowship exam. The pass rate for IMG General Surgeons taking the FRACS exam was 30.8% in 2012. You must pass this exam within 4 years of the start of your assessment period. There are no extensions given. Having spoken to many General Surgeons who have sat the FRACS exam as well as the exam in their home countries - the FRACS exam is notoriously challenging and a very high standard expected.
14) After you have completed all the requirements for fellowship (clinical assessment, including any upskilling, MOPS, Fellowship Exam) - you can then apply for fellowship.
15) Once you have achieved FRACS, you can then apply for registration as a specialist.
16) After 2 years on a 457 Visa, you can apply for permanent residency, but again, this is still tied to your job.
17) After obtaining Fellowship (if it is obtained, that is) - you will still need to complete a total of 10 years in an underserved area (although there is some scaling which can reduce this to around 7 years).

It is a long and expensive endeavour - just be sure it is what you really want prior to taking it on.

Regards.

 

[OncoSurg]

The Royal Australasian College of Surgeons has a pretty well laid out path towards Fellowship. Australia is a good country to practice in and takes pride in their surgical training. In order to move here, you would need to do the following:

1) Sit the IELTS - you cannot apply for registration unless you score 7 in all modules of the Academic exam.
2) Have your medical degree and qualifications assessed by the AMC under the specialist pathway
3) Submit documents through the AMC to the RACS and apply for an assessment - the fee is ~AUD$7,000 for this.
4) Attend an interview in Melbourne with the RACS - lasts about 45 minutes.
5) At this point, you will get a recommendation. It will likely be either "partially comparable" or "non comparable"
6) There may be issues with your surgical qualifications. Australians undergo 5 years of General Surgery training after about 3+ years as a junior doctor. They do not have a primary surgical qualification as a "surgical oncologist" and this is often done at the fellowship level. Because of this, if your training did not include all components that an Australian graduate would have completed during their training, you will either be deemed non comparable or there will be a recommendation for remedial training. Any remedial training will need to be completed during your assessment period and you'll have to look for a job in Australia to fulfil that requirement.
7) If you are deemed partially comparable, you can then look for a job - this will often be in an area outside of a capital city (you are also subject to a 10 year moratorium to work in an area of workforce shortage)
8) Once you have found the job, you can then get the hospital to sponsor you for a 457 visa - this is a temporary residency that is tied to your job. If for some reason you leave the job, or your contract is not renewed - you will have 30 days to either leave the country or find another position.
9) You will need to get the job approved by the RACS before applying for a license through AHPRA
10) You will then need to apply to AHPRA for a limited license for supervised practice.
11) You will then start 2 years of supervision - you will have 2 supervisors who will assess you and comment on your clinical and surgical abilities. If any deficiencies are noted, these will need to be corrected. The clinical assessment has 8 3-month periods where specific patient encounters in clinic are assessed, your theatre abilities are assessed, your overall progress as well as 360 degree evals every 6 months. You must submit a logbook of all operations during each period of assessment.
12) You will also need to participate in a continuing professional development program called MOPS while under supervision.
13) After a minimum of 9 months, you can be recommended to take the fellowship exam. The pass rate for IMG General Surgeons taking the FRACS exam was 30.8% in 2012. You must pass this exam within 4 years of the start of your assessment period. There are no extensions given. Having spoken to many General Surgeons who have sat the FRACS exam as well as the exam in their home countries - the FRACS exam is notoriously challenging and a very high standard expected.
14) After you have completed all the requirements for fellowship (clinical assessment, including any upskilling, MOPS, Fellowship Exam) - you can then apply for fellowship.
15) Once you have achieved FRACS, you can then apply for registration as a specialist.
16) After 2 years on a 457 Visa, you can apply for permanent residency, but again, this is still tied to your job.
17) After obtaining Fellowship (if it is obtained, that is) - you will still need to complete a total of 10 years in an underserved area (although there is some scaling which can reduce this to around 7 years).

It is a long and expensive endeavour - just be sure it is what you really want prior to taking it on.

Regards.

Thank you for your attention replying the post. I believe now I've understood the whole scenario and yes, I'm willing to take the chance.
I've downloaded the RACS General Surgery program, and my surgical training pretty much overlaps with the australian one, since breast, endocrine, skin/soft tissue sugery are part of a surgical oncologist formation. Perhaps a major issue will be the endoscopy/colonoscopy training, which in Brazil is a specialty apart from general surgery.
Regarding FRACS pass rates, I believe no matter how hard an exam is, one will pass if he's prepared, otherwise he shouldn't be applying.

I'll try to focus on steps 1,2,3 and 4..

Kind regards.

 

[Heitor L Gomes]

What the difference about specialist pathway and area of need specialist pathway ?

 

[Leforte]

If you apply for Area of Need, you are assessed if you meet the requirements of the position. If you apply for the regular specialist pathway, you are assessed as if you meet the requirements of an Australian trained surgeon.

I am really not too sure what this means in terms of obtaining Fellowship with RACS - At the end of the day, what I have seen is that if you are young ( ie < 45) and are recently out of your training (ie <= 10 years), you are required to sit the Exams. I think that Area of Need is more related to supervision vs oversight - ie, do you need on site supervision or can this be done remotely.

 

[Heitor L Gomes]

Do you have any idea how much a surgeon can earn in the first year ? I mean, assuming that I would get a "partially comparable" recommendation and start a supervised job.

 

[Leforte]

Varies by state.

Here is the pay scale for QLD: http://www.health.qld.gov.au/hrpolicies/wage_rates/medical.asp

Surgeons are pay level 18-24. There are also fringe benefits also (car allowance, professional development, on call, right of private practice) that can increase this a further 50-60%.

 

[smartman]

I'm curious to know what happened to you after the assessment..I am an Arab board certified psychiatrist and got 10 years of experience in the middle east...I'm thinking to move either to Australia or Germany..I would appreciate if somebody posted his their experience with the psychiatry specialist pathway....

thanks

 

[OncoSurg]

I had some problems in the last three months. Everything is ok now and I'm able to resume the application. I'm willing to take the IELTS in the next three months.

 

[Jaite]

16) After 2 years on a 457 Visa, you can apply for permanent residency, but again, this is still tied to your job.
17) After obtaining Fellowship (if it is obtained, that is) - you will still need to complete a total of 10 years in an underserved area (although there is some scaling which can reduce this to around 7 years).


Hello,

very interesting and comprehensive summary of the process settling in Australia as an IMG Surgeon. Undergoing this scenario in the moment, I can fully second this.
@Leforte
May I ask for some more information on obtaining a PR on the 457 VISA as in 16), which I could not get support for from my region, WA.

Thanks

 

[flsf]

Any updates on how it's going?

 

[nisha b m]

Hi there ,
iam an anaesthetist currently working in india..assessed through specialist pathway and having my interview in a few months....can someone tell me what's the structure in this interview?

 

[notrealwkwkwk]

The Royal Australasian College of Surgeons has a pretty well laid out path towards Fellowship. Australia is a good country to practice in and takes pride in their surgical training. In order to move here, you would need to do the following:

1) Sit the IELTS - you cannot apply for registration unless you score 7 in all modules of the Academic exam.
2) Have your medical degree and qualifications assessed by the AMC under the specialist pathway
3) Submit documents through the AMC to the RACS and apply for an assessment - the fee is ~AUD$7,000 for this.
4) Attend an interview in Melbourne with the RACS - lasts about 45 minutes.
5) At this point, you will get a recommendation. It will likely be either "partially comparable" or "non comparable"
6) There may be issues with your surgical qualifications. Australians undergo 5 years of General Surgery training after about 3+ years as a junior doctor. They do not have a primary surgical qualification as a "surgical oncologist" and this is often done at the fellowship level. Because of this, if your training did not include all components that an Australian graduate would have completed during their training, you will either be deemed non comparable or there will be a recommendation for remedial training. Any remedial training will need to be completed during your assessment period and you'll have to look for a job in Australia to fulfil that requirement.
7) If you are deemed partially comparable, you can then look for a job - this will often be in an area outside of a capital city (you are also subject to a 10 year moratorium to work in an area of workforce shortage)
8) Once you have found the job, you can then get the hospital to sponsor you for a 457 visa - this is a temporary residency that is tied to your job. If for some reason you leave the job, or your contract is not renewed - you will have 30 days to either leave the country or find another position.
9) You will need to get the job approved by the RACS before applying for a license through AHPRA
10) You will then need to apply to AHPRA for a limited license for supervised practice.
11) You will then start 2 years of supervision - you will have 2 supervisors who will assess you and comment on your clinical and surgical abilities. If any deficiencies are noted, these will need to be corrected. The clinical assessment has 8 3-month periods where specific patient encounters in clinic are assessed, your theatre abilities are assessed, your overall progress as well as 360 degree evals every 6 months. You must submit a logbook of all operations during each period of assessment.
12) You will also need to participate in a continuing professional development program called MOPS while under supervision.
13) After a minimum of 9 months, you can be recommended to take the fellowship exam. The pass rate for IMG General Surgeons taking the FRACS exam was 30.8% in 2012. You must pass this exam within 4 years of the start of your assessment period. There are no extensions given. Having spoken to many General Surgeons who have sat the FRACS exam as well as the exam in their home countries - the FRACS exam is notoriously challenging and a very high standard expected.
14) After you have completed all the requirements for fellowship (clinical assessment, including any upskilling, MOPS, Fellowship Exam) - you can then apply for fellowship.
15) Once you have achieved FRACS, you can then apply for registration as a specialist.
16) After 2 years on a 457 Visa, you can apply for permanent residency, but again, this is still tied to your job.
17) After obtaining Fellowship (if it is obtained, that is) - you will still need to complete a total of 10 years in an underserved area (although there is some scaling which can reduce this to around 7 years).

It is a long and expensive endeavour - just be sure it is what you really want prior to taking it on.

Regards.

hi. im about to finish my mbbs in china. (i am an indonesian) and im looking forward to live an work in australia.
for now, my plan is after i finish medschool, go back to indonesia and take my lisence while register for resident program in australia, take the amc, apply visa etc (work in indonesia is currently my plan b)
my question is : does the chance for IMGs to work in australia is still close to zero? i have no clue about this and i cant find the newest forum about this, and i have no one to ask

 

[notrealwkwkwk]

hello. im about to finish my mbbs in china (i am indonesian). and im willing to live and work in australia.
for now my plan is: finish medschool, go back to indonesia, take my lisence while applying for resident program in australia, take the AMC,applying for visa, etc (because working in indonesia is my plan b if things turn ugly)

my question is : is the chance for IMGs to work in australia still close to zero? what should i do? i have no clue about these things, and nowhere to ask

 

[Amish B]

Hi
I and my wife both have done MD in general medicine with 2 years post MD experience are intending to work in Australia and settle there.
we are Indians having acquired the qualifications from India itself.
Planning for specialist pathway
How long will it take to clear the process
What to study
What else to do
Please guide

Thanks

 

[Domperidone]

Responding to posters asking about where to start in general - one place would be the medical board of australia - where it outlines the process for international medical graduates (i.e. you got your medical degree from outside of Australia). It's also where to familiarize yourselves with how training works in Australia - because it's not going to necessarily be similar to other countries:
http://www.medicalboard.gov.au/Registration/International-Medical-Graduates.aspx

That's..pretty much all I can add. I have no experience with any pathways IMGs have to take to practice in Australia. So can't really answer questions in this thread.

What I can gather is that it is a really tough process, based on coming across and talking to IMG residents I met while I was on clinical rotations as a student in Australia. No idea what the opinions of my IMG attendings or consultants were (attendings are called consultants in Australia). A few IMG residents I've known have had to work for free as 'honourary' interns - that's the practice at some hospitals for a year. Others look at doing observerships and prep for the AMC exam for 2 years before getting a hospital resident or house officer position. This usually applied to those without much experience and depending on what pathway they're undertaking. Most IMGs to my knowledge end up in rural hospitals or rural areas as rural family doctors for at least several years. Simply because that's where the jobs are now. Currently there's massive waves of graduates coming out of the Australian medical schools each year.

 

[Samir Elmallah]

Hi All. I found this post to be very useful. I am currently making sone research for my sister who works as a dermatologist in Egypt to find out if she can migrate ti Asutralia. So far I found that she will probably be assessed as partially comparable when applying for dermatology specialist recognition, but what I couldn't find out is if this will grant her a Visa to enter Australia and be able to start working under supervision, I would really appreciate if someone could give me some insights about that so I can help my sister to evaluate her options

 

[austlearn]

Hi ,
I am from Kerala ,India. I have completed my M.D in Community Medicine and currently doing Senior Residency.... I wish to know
i Is it possible for me to apply through the specialist pathway
ii.If yes what should i do ?
Please help!!