Some thoughts from someone who considered DO but ended up in MD

Discover Your Odds of Getting into Medical School
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Not gonna lie... I love Yugioh. But it suffered the same fate as Pokemon (that is, the originals were good but everything after failed miserably). Apparently they are dueling on motorcycles now?

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That's right... I just fused the last 3 topics. WUHHHT
 
SxRx said:
First of all I'm not a troll. If you look at my previous postings, you'll know I have no history of trying to start a flaming war. But, as I was confused, not well informed as a pre-med student applying to MD and DO schools I noticed that there are many questions on these forum as to whether to go MD or DO. I see some people who state that they like the DO philosophy better. Some say they like the fact that DOs can perform OMM. Some state that in their experience DOs seemed to have better bedside manners or were more effective physicians. In the end you'll need to choose what will make you happier in life (if MD vs DO will even do that for anyone....who knows). But, I write this posting because I want pre-med students to make choices with more awareness. After that if you choose MD or DO then more power to you and work hard. You'd have made the right choice. But, making choices without a clearer idea on MD vs DO you may not make the right choice for yourself. I will address a few things including OMM, choosing specialties among other things and finally include a file of 2011 Results and Data of main residency match from NMRP so you can look over some hard numbers.

-OMM
I have had a prior healthcare experience that gave me ALOT of training in these manipulative modalities. I learned them while training for this profession in addition to practicing them as a professional for over 10 years. I've heard and seen text books on OMM and courses for OMM taught in DO schools. And, I must say that in order to have any idea of what you are doing let alone be effective in treatment it takes years and years of practice and classes after classes even after graduation. The little training DO students get while in school is no way sufficient to even come close to know what you are doing. So, to say that you'll have more treatment options since you've had OMM training is absurd. This is likely reflected in some of surveys that reveal majority of DOs don't use OMM. OMM type of manipulation is such an "art" form of treatment that you need a lot of practice and exposure in order to get the "feel" for it. So, even if you get comfortable with it if you don't use it you'll lose that touch. In addition, these manipulative modalities aren't as scientifically proven to be effective as say pharmacotherapy has been. Sure, there are journals that tout effectiveness of certain manipulations which shows that it's as effective as say analgesics. But, these articles are not in very respected journals and tend to have more biases in their study design than ones in more highly regarded journals. In conclusion OMM training does next to nothing for you as a DO physician unless you decide to do an OMM fellowship. Even then, such manipulative techniques aren't accepted as widely as other therapeutic modalities. (I'm not saying they are not effective) It's perhaps because in order to be that good you need a LOT of practice and exposure which very few have. Finally, learning something I'll not use (statistically) will not sit well with me in school. I have pharm, path to study for....and I have to spend 4 hours a week on OMM? That'd have driven me crazy.

-Specialty choices
This is where you'll want to look up some pages in the NMRP form I've included in this thread. What I want to say is that unless you want to match in DO residency programs or are going for IM, FM, psych among other relatively less competitive specialty it will be much more difficult to match into a specialty of your choice. In this respect I'm so glad that I did not choose to go to a DO school since with a DO degree an allopathic residency in my specialty of choice is extremely difficult to obtain. How do I know? When I look at lists of current residents in the places I interview less than 5% are DOs. I understand that there are lower number of DO graduates. But, if you look at the numbers you may get a better idea. Take a look at neurology in 2011. Of the DO applicants 29 were successfully matched at an MD program. I am sure that much much more than 29 DO applicants applied for MD programs. Perhaps many of them also applied to DO neurology programs and matched there, hence were out of consideration for an MD match since DO match occurs earlier in the year than MD match and by policy if a DO applicant matches into a DO program they automatically become ineligible for MD match. This aspect adds another stress. If you somehow feel that you'd rather do an MD residency you need to decide if you even want to risk matching into a DO program by applying to them. If you don't, then you need to only apply to MD programs in which case you will not have a good chance of matching. This is just a stressor I do not need. Above example was a relatively easy specialty to get into: neurology. If you consider specialties like radiology or surgery an MD applicant may have percentile in the 90's of matching while a DO applicant will have significantly lower chance of matching. So, you'll need to apply to both DO and MD programs and hope that you'll match into either one. Personally I don't know how competitive it is to get in to a DO surgery or rad program.
If you look at 2011's unmatched rate for MD students it was 6% while it was 20% for DO applicants. This figure is likely skewed by higher match likelihood in specialties like IM, FM etc...so in order for you to match into more competitive specialties as a DO applicant unmatched rate is likely much higher than 20%. If I were a DO applicant I would not be comfortable with that figure.
So, the bottom line here is that if you know what specialty you want to get into and it is more competitive than IM, FM etc, you need to find out the unmatched rate for DO applicants in DO programs so that you sort of know your likelihood of matching into a DO program since matching into an MD program will be very very difficult.

-Reputation/pedigree
This matters greatly although is not an absolute. There are DOs in competitive specialties and some are even in leadership roles in respected hospitals/programs. But, my point here is that it's just more difficult to attain that as a DO if that sort of career advancement is important to you (for me it wasn't). People from low tier MD programs have a much harder time matching into top programs in a specialty. It's not unheard of but much harder. For a DO applicant to match into top programs in most specialty is even tougher for this reason. If you have a list of 2-3 specialties you are considering, find out which programs are top 20 in the nation (or even top half in the nation), go to their websites, look at where these residents went to med school. Unless the specialty is a less competitive one you'll not find DO after their names. But then again, who says you need to go to top programs to be happy? But, what I do not like is being more limited in my choices and having a harder time matching in to what I want just because an applicant went to a DO school. Unfair? Perhaps. But, that's just how it is.

-Holistic/happier
Observations that DO's are more holistic or happier than MD's have to be somewhat anecdotal. People are people and I feel that this aspect has more to do with the individual.

-Many DO applicants (not all) feel they need to take USMLE step 1. Do you really want this added pressure?

-Conclusion
I have really struggled with going DO and staying within 5 miles from my friends/family vs an MD school located across the country. I'm extremely relieve that I choose MD. Sure I was away from my friends and family. But, after all the hard work in pre-med and in med school I don't think I'd be happy knowing I will have a huge uphill battle if I want to get into an MD residency program in even moderately competitive specialty. This will put a tremendous pressure on me or cause some to just go for less competitive specialty. I wanted to maximize choices/options not less. Whether I ended up choosing FM or say radiology or derm I wanted more options and choices rather than the type of degree decreasing my options in comparison to MD applicants. Please understand that I'm not saying DO applicants do not have choices/options; I'm simply saying that they have less options than MD counterpart. Again, after all is said and done, you need to do what is right for you and what you think is going to make you happier. If that's a DO degree despite what I've stated, then that is the right choice for you.

Again, I really wanted to voice an opinion and tell you some things I struggled with and what I think of them after having been exposed to med school and the residency matching process in hopes of letting pre-meds on this site hear various points of view in order to make the most appropriate choice for him/herself.
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Cool story bro. Tell it again.
 
DocEspana said:
Complete poppycock. That's right. I said it. Complete and utter poppycock. Why? because yoyre under the same delusion that DO students who think there is zero difference in degree arw under. You're convinced (as are 4 out of 5 people) that you'll be double boarded radiation oncology and plastics and you're the greatest out there and will break every statistical truth out there that no one talks about. By that I mean....



... That.

Guy took the words right out of my mouth. Pretty sure I said something similar without the eloquence earlier in this thread. Glad to see someone else understands ot requores being something special among a pool of people who are already something special. When youre talking prestigious your degree means nothing. It's your scores and your intangibles. You run the AMA is an intangble. Assisted on dick cheneys last cardiac cath? You get what you want. You are coauthor on an article that changed how prostate cancer is surgically treated? Urology at emory. Went to a top 10 school and finished in the top 25% is the same thing. You want ambitious, actually be good enough. Few people can be. You want prestogious? Be *unique*.
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You, my friend, either cannot read, or cannot understand what you are reading. I am not talking about people going into family medicine career. I think i eluded to that in the previous post, as did the author of this thread. Believe it or not, but there are people out there who are interested in fields other than family practice and working in more than community hospital. And the scope and caliber of academic work that you do is significantly limited by where you did your residency. Which is in turn influenced by what med school you went to. If you don't believe that, you will be in for a major disappointment when you start interviewing. When despite your excellent scores, you are turned down for interview by places that take students with lesser stats than your, or better yet, you wouldn't even get to do rotations there. You have two attendings with real life experience telling youv that, and you, from your vast medical student experience disregard it as crock...
Again, i will reiterate - I am a physician because osteopathic school gave me opportunity to be one. I am proud to have trained there, and have no issues recommending it to people. But at the same time, if someone has opportunity to be trained at US MD school, these are some of the things to consider. No one is bashing DO's and no one says anything to feel DO applicants inferior to MD's. That was the whole point of my original post.
 
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How does toytles have a 1st edition dark pikachu? You could pay for medical school selling that card.
 
ParacrineAgent said:
How does toytles have a 1st edition dark pikachu? You could pay for medical school selling that card.
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More like... I could buy the entire school and give myself the degree on the first day.

I don't know if that card even exists, or if it was photoshopped, lol.
 
I am pretty sure it's photo-shopped. There are little yellow specks of yellow that show through. Plus, I used to play the card game in early highschool and the highest amount of health I remember seeing is about 120 or so. I am thinking 999 is a little high.
 
You know... I never understood the idea of a "thunder bolt". Those are two separate things. In the anime, thunder bolt appears simply as a lightning attack... so why not just call it "lightning", or just "bolt"... why add thunder? Or why not make it "Thunder's bolt"... or more accurately, "Bolt's thunder" ??

And how is it possible to have a "dark thunder" attack? By saying "dark", they are implying that there is a "not dark" form of thunder... which doesn't make sense since thunder is just the noise produced by the expansion of super heated air.
 
I loooooove where this thread has gone! I have no idea what you are talking about (generation gap) but am learning soooo much about anime characters, lol! Isn't there a snake called Vasche on one of these shows/cards?
 
OzelloPiRat said:
I loooooove where this thread has gone! I have no idea what you are talking about (generation gap) but am learning soooo much about anime characters, lol! Isn't there a snake called Vasche on one of these shows/cards?
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Generation gap? Are you an older pre-med then? cause these are all directly from my childhood and I'm pretty not old... just saying :laugh:
 
Now here is something directly from my childhood. I had every single toy that came out, until my mother made me sell them all at a garage sale. :(

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ninja-turtles.jpg
 
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Pokemon and the rest came out when I was in my 20s I think. I'm 33, so just a couple yrs older *wink*
 
Making my contribution to keep this sad thread at the top every time I come to this forum.
I have no pokemon's.
 
I love "High Expectations Asian Father"

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Heh, this thread was entertaining. For people like me, that is people who have self esteem issues and need outside approval, I think the "prestige" thing is a great way for us to high five ourselves when we're feeling particularly sad about ourselves. I also take solice in the fact that I can flee the US and practice in more countries abroad... very practical...

Honestly, aside from the obvious things that have been said by everyone in this thread (not just the presumptuous MD students), in the future, I've heard the mentioned cuts to residency funding, and how in combination with the exploding number of MD students from new MD schools, international medical students, and then DOs, will be pushed out of ACGME residencies. That's just something I've heard though, not based on much, so who knows.
 
DocEspana said:
I actually rather liked it. But I'm a sucker for stats, cold hard admissions, and somewhat controversial opinions being stated clearly and with tact (agree with it or not).

Plus these are the same students who do end up being the DO IM resident at hopkins or the DO gas resident at mayo clinic or the urology resident at Emory or the trauma fellow at Maryland Shock Trauma. So they have choices. Would they be even more well off if they went to Columbia? Sure. But the same can be said for person from <random MD school #72> who would be better off at Columbia. Thats a "name value of the school" argument, not a degree argument, at that level of success.
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I don't know if you are being abstract but there are no DOs in the IM residency at Hopkins Hospital. There never have been any in the past either. Also, looking back at the AUA match master lists, for the last 5 years there have been no DOs matching to Emory so please tidy up your examples.
 
mishaS said:
Honestly, aside from the obvious things that have been said by everyone in this thread (not just the presumptuous MD students), in the future, I've heard the mentioned cuts to residency funding, and how in combination with the exploding number of MD students from new MD schools, international medical students, and then DOs, will be pushed out of ACGME residencies. That's just something I've heard though, not based on much, so who knows.
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This is likely going to affect Foreign Medical Grads much more than DO students.
 
Instatewaiter said:
I don't know if you are being abstract but there are no DOs in the IM residency at Hopkins Hospital. There never have been any in the past either. Also, looking back at the AUA match master lists, for the last 5 years there have been no DOs matching to Emory so please tidy up your examples.
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The Hopkins was abstract, at least in the literal "this is THE Hopkins hospital". Obviously youve talked at length about bayview.

The emory doc is in his mid 30s so he probably matched between 5 and 10 years ago. Got to hear him give a speech before. Interesting dude.
 
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6uo1KD4buY[/YOUTUBE] best family guy clip ever
 
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This is like one of those Pre-Allo threads...I'm disappointed :(
 
At least it's only ONE thread.

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No idea why Im posting this picture.
 
smiththomas said:
Hi
welcome to this forum sites.Here you can find lots of information related your questions.
You want to solve your question, I think you consult first you teacher then your friends.
They can give you better solution.
-----------------
[spam deleted by ShyRem]
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Me thinks your a spammer spreading a virus.
I no clicky on your linky.

And thank you for the great display of grammar. I will defiantly go to your site for any and all questions I may have.
 
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smiththomas said:
Hi
welcome to this forum sites.Here you can find lots of information related your questions.
You want to solve your question, I think you consult first you teacher then your friends.
They can give you better solution.
-----------------
[spam deleted by ShyRem]
Click to expand...


Oh ways awesomes advice friend! Prehaps my friends no two the differential from DO and MD! Y I no think that be-four?! Ha! I shalls ax them be-four trieing that link eben tho it looks ways awesome and prehaps has grate tips!


But seriously, that high expectations asian father had me crying from laughter the first time I saw him.
 
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This thread is originally about truck parts, right? So I have this picture of some part of a vehicle with hoses that are numbered 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5. Can anyone tell me what they are?

7.jpg
 
So then the yellow zip ties must be fascia holding it all together... It all makes sense now.
 
Okay...this might be long but....I just have to do it...

GIpremed said:
Oh ways awesomes advice friend! Prehaps my friends no two the differential from DO and MD! Y I no think that be-four?! Ha! I shalls ax them be-four trieing that link eben tho it looks ways awesome and prehaps has grate tips!

But seriously, that high expectations asian father had me crying from laughter the first time I saw him.
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To you, I say:
qWrxe.jpg

and
4a9LG.png



Mbeas said:
This is like one of those Pre-Allo threads...I'm disappointed
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To you, I say...

jVLg2.jpg


DrWily said:
At least it's only ONE thread.

No idea why Im posting this picture.
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To youuu, I dump these random pictures that I also have no idea why I'm posting

o6dwi.jpg


BJOtq.jpg


WyI8H.jpg


fOcsI.jpg


TbZqr.jpg


Iliketoytles said:
The appendix looks inflamed.
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And last but not least, mentioning appendicitis reminded me of surgery, which in turn reminded me of this

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...Okay..I'm spent...

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I'm about to make so many people's (especially Iliketoytles) days.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHG-JO8gIGk[/YOUTUBE]

And a gift for those who took the time to watch that one:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SL_x1rRg7mM[/YOUTUBE]
 
PIKACHU! While he's charging his THUNDER...SMASH...use your BOLT...of LIGHTNING!
 
I love how it just keeps going at the end, lol.

btw, isn't venasaur supposed to be a lot bigger?

venu.jpg
 
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