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Hey, I am deciding between both schools and I was wondering if current students or anyone would care to share their thoughts or adivce about each school or both.
Thanks
Thanks
Some Advice: Cornell Weill or Columbia P&S
- Thread starter MedMan3
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congrats MedMan3,
both schools are excellent choices.
i'm currently a 3rd year at cornell, and have to say that i am still enjoying my time here immensely. before med school i was a teacher in nyc for a few years so i've been interested in issues of education, and cornell does a pretty good job at most things, with the caveat that one has to be really motivated and a self-directed learner, to do well here.
and all in all, reflecting on my time at med school, it's been a pretty humane experience.
though everyone is different, here are some reasons i chose to come to cornell:
1) in terms of clinical settings
The New York Hospital - Top notch. The "New York" in "New York-Presbyterian Hospital." state of the art facilities in almost every respect.
Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center- consistently 1 or 2 in the country
Hospital for Special Surgery - tops in the country for orthopedics
The Rockefeller University - 20 nobel laureates - pretty good for this "small" institu. also, really beautiful campus/library/dining area, esp. in spring and fall!
all these amazing institutions are literally joined at the hip, being right across the street from each other. one ID badge gets you access to all these places.
an example:
1a) attendings at memorial hold positions in the medical college. so when we were learning about the thorax in 1st year, surgeons from memorial would come to discuss the anatomy and lymphatics of the breast and how the basic science histology/anatomy was essential for understanding cancer development and spread. this type of teaching situation is commonplace (i did my neuro physical exam portion at memorial as well).
1b) when we went through hand and arm anatomy, guys from Hospital of Special Surgery (HSS) stopped their practices for the 2-3 hours of classtime and came down and taught us in small groups. rheumatology was the same scenariao. during intro anesthesiology (last week), i spent the first morning at HSS in the OR with an attending during a bilateral knee replacement procedure.
1c) all the attending physicians during my time here have been really approachable. interested in bioterrorism, you can develop a project with infectious disease people/public health (as a couple of classmates did)
if you want to see a cardiothoracic operation, just call ahead and they'd be happy to have you. the same went for my experiences in geriatrics (a great, great department with supportive, talented people)
1d) columbia and cornell have a diverse array of clinical teaching settings. in cornell's case, you have the flagship hospitals mentioned above, as well as your core 3rd year rotations at hospitals in the bronx, brookyn, and queens. a very different population throughout these 4 bouroughs. for example. lincoln hospital, located in the south bronx, is the 2nd busiest trauma center in new york city (after King's county hosp.) and if you do surgery there you will see lots of knife/gunshot/car accidents, etc. the point being if you choose, you can do all your rotations at NYH or ALL OF THEM AT AWAY SITES (except for medicine, which is required at NYH).... you can of course, mix and match sites: so for example this year i'm doing peds, ob/gyn, medicine at NYH and lincoln, and surgery in queens, and psych in westchester.
2) this being said, no matter where you go, you have to decide where your quality of life as a med student will fit your lifestyle the best. in my case, a big factor was that during the first two years: almost all days end at 12:30-1:00. that gives you plenty of time to pursue outside activities such as research or hobbies or excercise/sports and still have time to do the necesssary studying. i worked part time one to two nights a week at a cooking school (i like to cook) during anatomy/physiology and still had time to do well.
3) as for where cornell is: the location of cornell is really NICE (both relatively speaking from a geographical standpoint- close to everything - and from a physical standpoint- the upper east side itself- relatively staid, but nice to live in once in your life.)
very close to resplendent central park (a huge plus), some of the finest restuarants in new york, museums galore (met, guggenheim, fick collection, whitney, etc), a quick bus ride across the park to lincoln center (performing arts), imax movie theaters, Fairway market(!) and it's 25 minutes away from chinatown (yum) and the up and coming lower east side, dance clubs, experimental plays, etc. etc.
4) as for my colleagues here. coming off a 4 yr hiatus from academics, i was happily impressed that our class really worked well together, both from returning students, and students coming straight from undergrad. the mantra really is med students have to work together, or med school will be totally crappy. that being said, i truly feel quite comfortable calling my colleagues today, 5 years, 10 yrs, 20 yrs, down the road when i need that cardiology or psych consult. cornell students are generally a varied and likeable, laid back-bunch, in my experience. the years ahead of us also have provided lots of advice and guidance on how to succeed.
5) in terms of curriculum. i felt cornell gave me a good grounding in most aspects of basic science and in the end, most of the board study time was intense, but maneageable. the two major flaws in cornell i would say would be micro and pharm: you really need to spend time on this yourself during your 2nd year to learn this on your own in a clinically/board study relevent way. it is not taught well here the first two years. that being said, 99% of students pass the boards, and match to top programs throughout the country, tho this is more a testament to the overall soundness of students and their superior clinical training in 3rd and 4th years (which factor much more in residency selection)
on the flip side: basic science biggies such as pathology, pathophysiology, anatomy, neuroanatomy and physiology, histo, cardiology, GI, rheum, are taught well here, in my opinion. I've also had very good experiences with PBL throughout my two years.
clinically speaking, the subinternship (required month) in fourth year is very very strong. highly intense but a superior learning experience from every one i've spoken to.
6) classrooms: White boards on most every wall in PBL, flat screen 22 inch plasma screens, Mac G5 supercomputers coming this fall. cornell has lots of money.
7) neat programs such as MD-MPH programs (with cornell and columbia), MD-MBA (with cornell in NYC and cornell ithaca), and MD-PhD prgrams with cornell, memorial, or rockefeller (even after being accepted as a med student only).
there are other great plusses here at cornell. if you're interested, i'd be glad to reply to any questions you may have; or direct you to the right person if i don't have the answer.
in the end, no matter where you go, be happy as a med student and that can only contribute to making you a better doctor to your patients and their families.
good luck in your decision.
both schools are excellent choices.
i'm currently a 3rd year at cornell, and have to say that i am still enjoying my time here immensely. before med school i was a teacher in nyc for a few years so i've been interested in issues of education, and cornell does a pretty good job at most things, with the caveat that one has to be really motivated and a self-directed learner, to do well here.
and all in all, reflecting on my time at med school, it's been a pretty humane experience.
though everyone is different, here are some reasons i chose to come to cornell:
1) in terms of clinical settings
The New York Hospital - Top notch. The "New York" in "New York-Presbyterian Hospital." state of the art facilities in almost every respect.
Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center- consistently 1 or 2 in the country
Hospital for Special Surgery - tops in the country for orthopedics
The Rockefeller University - 20 nobel laureates - pretty good for this "small" institu. also, really beautiful campus/library/dining area, esp. in spring and fall!
all these amazing institutions are literally joined at the hip, being right across the street from each other. one ID badge gets you access to all these places.
an example:
1a) attendings at memorial hold positions in the medical college. so when we were learning about the thorax in 1st year, surgeons from memorial would come to discuss the anatomy and lymphatics of the breast and how the basic science histology/anatomy was essential for understanding cancer development and spread. this type of teaching situation is commonplace (i did my neuro physical exam portion at memorial as well).
1b) when we went through hand and arm anatomy, guys from Hospital of Special Surgery (HSS) stopped their practices for the 2-3 hours of classtime and came down and taught us in small groups. rheumatology was the same scenariao. during intro anesthesiology (last week), i spent the first morning at HSS in the OR with an attending during a bilateral knee replacement procedure.
1c) all the attending physicians during my time here have been really approachable. interested in bioterrorism, you can develop a project with infectious disease people/public health (as a couple of classmates did)
if you want to see a cardiothoracic operation, just call ahead and they'd be happy to have you. the same went for my experiences in geriatrics (a great, great department with supportive, talented people)
1d) columbia and cornell have a diverse array of clinical teaching settings. in cornell's case, you have the flagship hospitals mentioned above, as well as your core 3rd year rotations at hospitals in the bronx, brookyn, and queens. a very different population throughout these 4 bouroughs. for example. lincoln hospital, located in the south bronx, is the 2nd busiest trauma center in new york city (after King's county hosp.) and if you do surgery there you will see lots of knife/gunshot/car accidents, etc. the point being if you choose, you can do all your rotations at NYH or ALL OF THEM AT AWAY SITES (except for medicine, which is required at NYH).... you can of course, mix and match sites: so for example this year i'm doing peds, ob/gyn, medicine at NYH and lincoln, and surgery in queens, and psych in westchester.
2) this being said, no matter where you go, you have to decide where your quality of life as a med student will fit your lifestyle the best. in my case, a big factor was that during the first two years: almost all days end at 12:30-1:00. that gives you plenty of time to pursue outside activities such as research or hobbies or excercise/sports and still have time to do the necesssary studying. i worked part time one to two nights a week at a cooking school (i like to cook) during anatomy/physiology and still had time to do well.
3) as for where cornell is: the location of cornell is really NICE (both relatively speaking from a geographical standpoint- close to everything - and from a physical standpoint- the upper east side itself- relatively staid, but nice to live in once in your life.)
very close to resplendent central park (a huge plus), some of the finest restuarants in new york, museums galore (met, guggenheim, fick collection, whitney, etc), a quick bus ride across the park to lincoln center (performing arts), imax movie theaters, Fairway market(!) and it's 25 minutes away from chinatown (yum) and the up and coming lower east side, dance clubs, experimental plays, etc. etc.
4) as for my colleagues here. coming off a 4 yr hiatus from academics, i was happily impressed that our class really worked well together, both from returning students, and students coming straight from undergrad. the mantra really is med students have to work together, or med school will be totally crappy. that being said, i truly feel quite comfortable calling my colleagues today, 5 years, 10 yrs, 20 yrs, down the road when i need that cardiology or psych consult. cornell students are generally a varied and likeable, laid back-bunch, in my experience. the years ahead of us also have provided lots of advice and guidance on how to succeed.
5) in terms of curriculum. i felt cornell gave me a good grounding in most aspects of basic science and in the end, most of the board study time was intense, but maneageable. the two major flaws in cornell i would say would be micro and pharm: you really need to spend time on this yourself during your 2nd year to learn this on your own in a clinically/board study relevent way. it is not taught well here the first two years. that being said, 99% of students pass the boards, and match to top programs throughout the country, tho this is more a testament to the overall soundness of students and their superior clinical training in 3rd and 4th years (which factor much more in residency selection)
on the flip side: basic science biggies such as pathology, pathophysiology, anatomy, neuroanatomy and physiology, histo, cardiology, GI, rheum, are taught well here, in my opinion. I've also had very good experiences with PBL throughout my two years.
clinically speaking, the subinternship (required month) in fourth year is very very strong. highly intense but a superior learning experience from every one i've spoken to.
6) classrooms: White boards on most every wall in PBL, flat screen 22 inch plasma screens, Mac G5 supercomputers coming this fall. cornell has lots of money.
7) neat programs such as MD-MPH programs (with cornell and columbia), MD-MBA (with cornell in NYC and cornell ithaca), and MD-PhD prgrams with cornell, memorial, or rockefeller (even after being accepted as a med student only).
there are other great plusses here at cornell. if you're interested, i'd be glad to reply to any questions you may have; or direct you to the right person if i don't have the answer.
in the end, no matter where you go, be happy as a med student and that can only contribute to making you a better doctor to your patients and their families.
good luck in your decision.
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WOW. I am looking at both of these schools as well (I am applying now to schools). I have to say that was probably the best post I have read on SDN. Thanks so much for all that information!!! 
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Simply AMAZING post! I have heard/read debates regarding med schools in NYC, considering the fact that there are 8 of them in the vicinity, and by far this is the most informative post ever!
Cornell is definitely at the top of my list now.
Thank you greets
Cornell is definitely at the top of my list now.
Thank you greets
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My senses tell me Columbia
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I'm just finishing up my first year at Cornell, and though i've had my ups and downs with the school, overall i think I made the right choice. Both schools are excellent - one advantage that I think Cornell has over Columbia is location. Much nicer area, much safer, and much better housing. That being said, the two schools are really equal in reputation, etc., so on some level you're just going to have to go with your gut. Do you have time to visit each school again? Even a brief visit to each may help you decide which one "feels" right.
Good luck! You can't go wrong either way.
Quid
Good luck! You can't go wrong either way.
Quid
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The OP posted this last year. I believe he chose Cornell.
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I just finished my first year at Columbia P&S, and I have to say that overall I have enjoyed my experience thus far. As you may know, Columbia is a mixture of traditional teaching (i.e. lectures) and small groups, which I think is great. I personally cannot learn in a PBL style, so the lectures are perfect for me. One special thing about first year at Columbia is our anatomy course, which goes for about 7 months. We are not like a lot of schools that like to compress anatomy into 4 months or even 6 weeks! It gives us ample time ot learn the material and to digest its clinical relevance. If you have ANY questions about Columbia, feel free to PM me. With respect to the safety issue: People who have not been to Washington Heights or have only heard about Washington Heights talk about how unsafe it is. This is totally NOT true. I have never felt the least bit threatened in Washington Heights. Although the neighborhood is not typical NYC, it definitely has its charm. Good luck.
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ok, ok,
this thread is OLD~!
and since it came on last year, many same/exact threads have come about, debating the same things.
go figure.
first of all, in honor of the coming out of Deep Throat, some conclusion *hopefully* to this saga of this particular thread...
1) MedMan3.... this unknown caper who started this thread... who was he?
Well he ended up going to Cornell and became the class president. Needless to say he likes it here. I had lunch with him a few weeks ago.... actually.
2) although i personally enjoyed PBL immensely,
for cryin' out loud Cornell is NOT FREAKIN' just PBL!!! it is roughly 1/3 PBL 1/3 small group (e.g., path cases, micro lab, anatomy lab depending on the course), and 1/3 lecture. ok?
as for anatomy= 7 months as well. spans later half 1st & first half 2nd yr.
3) both Cornell and Columbia are good schools.
Look if you want to live in Washington heights, fine. It's nice. It's close to Jersey and the verdent palisades cliffs. There is great dominican food there (i like maduros and pollo a la brasa)... Columbia is on ~168th st. The track and field hall of fame is there too. btw go check out the 1,9 subway stop (no, not the A train stop, go further below to the 1,9 by taking the elevator). It's got real new york flava.
Cornell is on, strangely, 68th St.-- a HUNDRED-plus blocks south of Columbia (ok, so it also has a dominican deli where you can get maduros! nyum!) Once again, it's close to splendid Central Park; i walk there with my girlfriend all the time. Lincoln center is on 66th St a bus-ride to the west side (~8 large blocks away). IMax theater at 64th, The Frick Museum on 70th, The Asia Society on 70th, the School of Interior Design on 70th, I can get down to the Lower East Side in ~25 minutes, The Whitney on 75th, The Met at 82nd, Sotherby's on 71st, Bloomies on 59th, Yuka on 81st... dude!
BUT!! i must say, actually it's NYU (32nd st & 1st) that takes the cake in terms of location to the hippest of the hip: the east village/SoHo/west village/Nolita/lower east side/Union Square, etc, etc. You gotta go downtown, my friend.
but finally....
4) do you think you'll really learn doctoring in 1st and 2nd year? People like to talk about "this school's" 1st year is different from that school's 1st year...
Look. In terms of content, once you get to third and fourth year, med school is med school is med school, it's pretty bloody all the same!
Seriously folks, who do you think will be teaching you how to put in that A-line? Most likely a resident who went to medical school at Sinai or NYU, or perhaps Columbia, or maybe they stayed at Cornell after med school, or maybe they're from the University of Oregon or Yale or from Wash U. The residency and the Match guarantees many medical schools being represented at each institution. The whole system is inbred where it counts (i.e., those who you spend how many god forsaken hours with) , especially in the metropolitan tri-state area. Look my chief resident in Peds came from NYMC, my most favorite critical care attending came from Cornell via Penn. My anesthesiology resident was from the University of Florida. My R2 on cardiac was from Harvard, and my fabulous R2 on renal was from Temple. All of them kicked-butt~! I mention them here because they all were great.
Heck, since NYPH (New York-Presbyterian = "New York Hospital Cornell Medical Center" and "Columbia-Presbyterian Medical Center") is the mother hospital administration at both places, they share the same computer system for crying out loud!
Milstein building (columbia) was completed in the early 90s, Greenberg building (cornell) was finished in the late 90's.
Legionella in the water system that killed a heart failure patient at Columbia-NYPH?..... the state commissioners also descend upon Cornell-NYPH to investigate, and lo and behold they find.... what bug do you think?
Ok?
some food for realistic thought.
this thread is OLD~!
and since it came on last year, many same/exact threads have come about, debating the same things.
go figure.
first of all, in honor of the coming out of Deep Throat, some conclusion *hopefully* to this saga of this particular thread...
1) MedMan3.... this unknown caper who started this thread... who was he?
Well he ended up going to Cornell and became the class president. Needless to say he likes it here. I had lunch with him a few weeks ago.... actually.
2) although i personally enjoyed PBL immensely,
for cryin' out loud Cornell is NOT FREAKIN' just PBL!!! it is roughly 1/3 PBL 1/3 small group (e.g., path cases, micro lab, anatomy lab depending on the course), and 1/3 lecture. ok?
as for anatomy= 7 months as well. spans later half 1st & first half 2nd yr.
3) both Cornell and Columbia are good schools.
Look if you want to live in Washington heights, fine. It's nice. It's close to Jersey and the verdent palisades cliffs. There is great dominican food there (i like maduros and pollo a la brasa)... Columbia is on ~168th st. The track and field hall of fame is there too. btw go check out the 1,9 subway stop (no, not the A train stop, go further below to the 1,9 by taking the elevator). It's got real new york flava.
Cornell is on, strangely, 68th St.-- a HUNDRED-plus blocks south of Columbia (ok, so it also has a dominican deli where you can get maduros! nyum!) Once again, it's close to splendid Central Park; i walk there with my girlfriend all the time. Lincoln center is on 66th St a bus-ride to the west side (~8 large blocks away). IMax theater at 64th, The Frick Museum on 70th, The Asia Society on 70th, the School of Interior Design on 70th, I can get down to the Lower East Side in ~25 minutes, The Whitney on 75th, The Met at 82nd, Sotherby's on 71st, Bloomies on 59th, Yuka on 81st... dude!
BUT!! i must say, actually it's NYU (32nd st & 1st) that takes the cake in terms of location to the hippest of the hip: the east village/SoHo/west village/Nolita/lower east side/Union Square, etc, etc. You gotta go downtown, my friend.
but finally....
4) do you think you'll really learn doctoring in 1st and 2nd year? People like to talk about "this school's" 1st year is different from that school's 1st year...
Look. In terms of content, once you get to third and fourth year, med school is med school is med school, it's pretty bloody all the same!
Seriously folks, who do you think will be teaching you how to put in that A-line? Most likely a resident who went to medical school at Sinai or NYU, or perhaps Columbia, or maybe they stayed at Cornell after med school, or maybe they're from the University of Oregon or Yale or from Wash U. The residency and the Match guarantees many medical schools being represented at each institution. The whole system is inbred where it counts (i.e., those who you spend how many god forsaken hours with) , especially in the metropolitan tri-state area. Look my chief resident in Peds came from NYMC, my most favorite critical care attending came from Cornell via Penn. My anesthesiology resident was from the University of Florida. My R2 on cardiac was from Harvard, and my fabulous R2 on renal was from Temple. All of them kicked-butt~! I mention them here because they all were great.
Heck, since NYPH (New York-Presbyterian = "New York Hospital Cornell Medical Center" and "Columbia-Presbyterian Medical Center") is the mother hospital administration at both places, they share the same computer system for crying out loud!
Milstein building (columbia) was completed in the early 90s, Greenberg building (cornell) was finished in the late 90's.
Legionella in the water system that killed a heart failure patient at Columbia-NYPH?..... the state commissioners also descend upon Cornell-NYPH to investigate, and lo and behold they find.... what bug do you think?
Ok?
some food for realistic thought.
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MedMan3 said:
My fiancee is just finishing his third year at Columbia (I'm starting med school this year as well), and he has regretted his decision from day 1. In fact, despite being more convenient for me, I decided not to go based on his experience.
If you would like more details, please email me privately.
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ilanahg said:
And while I'm sure ilanahg's reasons for not attending Columbia are important and valid, please don't make this big decision based on anecdotal evidence. Some of us a really enjoying it there!
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MedMan3 wrote in June 2004,MedMan3 said:
ilanahg said:
dear ilanahg,
i see you write in June 2005,
pls note; from above,
greets fr. nyc said:...this thread is OLD~!
and since it came on last year, many same/exact threads have come about, debating the same things.
go figure.
first of all, in honor of the coming out of Deep Throat, some conclusion *hopefully* to this saga of this particular thread...
1) MedMan3.... this unknown caper who started this thread... who was he?
Well he ended up going to Cornell and became the class president. Needless to say he likes it here. I had lunch with him a few weeks ago.... actually.
2) although....
hope your fiance, is doing better.
he's in his last year! more elective time, more freedom, or perhaps, more free time! plus, don't forget, the year basically academically "ends" in november, with residency apps going out.... so even less to worry about!
