Social climate of a Clinical Psy PhD program?

[gohogwild]

OK, I lurk on the med forums and am again applying the logic here.

That said, is the social environment of a clinical PhD cut throat? Are people assertive? Talking over each other? Who's favored? What are their traits?

There was some consensus med forums that beyond studies, the gregarious, assertive, jolly talkative type got the step up; so is it the same for clinical psych? Being in academia, I would imagine there's more tolerance for those a couple standard deviations towards the reserved, ""thoughtful"" category (or any category, hypnosis still being an active area and all) ? I'm just curious what knee jerk reactions this brings up.

Maybe I'm trying to game stuff I cannot even imagine yet, since from my understanding, we're talking very different people between different research areas (let alone between different kinds of professional schools/academia, etc). That's fine too!

Regardless, thanks.

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[R. Matey]

It radically depends on the program. It could be a question you ask current graduate students when you go for interviews.

 

[psych.meout]

It radically depends on the program. It could be a question you ask current graduate students when you go for interviews.

I've heard directly from students about some programs being relatively cutthroat while other are basically like extended families. Definitely factored in when I was weighing various offers. Really depends on the program.

OK, I lurk on the med forums and am again applying the logic here.

That said, is the social environment of a clinical PhD cut throat? Are people assertive? Talking over each other? Who's favored? What are their traits?

There was some consensus med forums that beyond studies, the gregarious, assertive, jolly talkative type got the step up; so is it the same for clinical psych?

Assertiveness is kind of important regardless of the discipline.

Being in academia, I would imagine there's more tolerance for those a couple standard deviations towards the reserved, ""thoughtful"" category

Are you implying that students who are more gregarious or assertive are less "thoughtful," however you're operationalizing that?

(or any category, hypnosis still being an active area and all) ?

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

 

[gohogwild]

Are you implying that students who are more gregarious or assertive are less "thoughtful," however you're operationalizing that?

No, that's not what I meant, although I definitely could have been more clear. I'm kind of comparing the stereotypes of introverts (reserved, thoughful, introspective, etc) and extroverts (sensation seeking, action based, gregarious, etc) without using the names outright. I relegate myself to the side of the introvert, which is why I use the extra quotation marks around thoughtful, internet humility.

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

I'm being a smarta@@ there, it was sort of to say that academia is probably more embracing of odd/quiet people on the basis that if you put your head down and do the work, you get the degree no matter your personality defect etc, which I then said is why people who study hypnotism exist, an attempt at a joke. And while set up could be the case for academia, med school may be looking for a certain image or have a dominant vein of personality traits that is conducive to projecting the ideal doctorly image (or so it seemed to be agreed upon in the posts I read), which seemed to be a certain kind of action-based, blunt, verbally fluent, technically aware type of personality. Conscientious, extroverted, & disagreeable.

I was curious, then, what the big-picture main-vein ideal traits of the psychologist was, and while I think I would understand that they are empathetic but analytical, and thoughtful, open-minded, whatever- SDN has taught me want to check my thinking on the assumptions I make about this career. And I thought it would be interesting to try to get this answer by framing it in the experiences of the cohort, because it's kind of like contextualizing a personality on a hierarchy and so I could see where I related and where I did not, etc. So, really, the monkey-brain end goal here is, after I've explained all this: 'Do I got a shot? I'm scared they won't like me!'. So it goes.

This is likely a post I could have slept on and communicated better.

 

[WisNeuro]

There really wasn't any competition. There is no "class rank" and pretty much everyone is getting a B+ or better, so no one cares if they do better than someone else in class grades. Aside from that, your cohort is usually spread out over different labs, so you are doing fairly disparate work in the research sense, so I don't remember much if any competition there. Also, some people are going for more clinical careers, so they are not competing to get to double digit pubs or anything.

As fas as personality types, it was variable. I don't think there is a "typical personality" across the programs. But, because your cohort is so small at any reputable program (e.g., 5-10) you're kind of at the whim of the draw when it comes to socializing within that cohort. My cohort was awesome and very cohesive, but the one after us didn't really hang out together at all. Just depends on that mix of personalities and life stages.

 

[Temperance]

In addition to what has already been said, the perception of the social environment of a specific program might vary across students, as well, even within a cohort. What is an extended family to one student might be enmeshment to another, or there might be a situation where some students do not get along with their fellow cohort mates due to personality clashes, misunderstandings, or any other social situation. The variation is not altogether different from what you would find in a typical work setting.

 

[Ollie123]

It is going to be a little different from med school in most legit programs just because class sizes are much smaller. With 10-12 per cohort it is just very different. Being extroverted carries some benefits the way it does in nearly any professional context, but its not a big deal. Honestly, knowing many successful heavily introverted doctors I'm doubtful it matters all that much there too. Yes, being outgoing offers some advantages. Networking is important, but one doesn't need to be an extrovert to effectively network.

If you want to stand out, be good at statistics and/or publish like crazy. That goes way further than anything else.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Going to second/third/etc. everything said above. It can vary significantly from one program or lab to the next, but in general, because the classes are smaller and you're often working with one advisor who specifically selected/admitted you, I don't get the same "cut-throat" feel from graduate school that I do from medical school (where, like Ollie said, there are more students, all of whom will be above-average academically, so there's a huge push to find ways to differentiate yourself). That doesn't mean there aren't competitive clinical psych students, just that there will be fewer of them.

In my experience, being cut-throat outright wasn't particularly reinforced in my program. My own lab was very much akin to the "extended family" situation described above. Being assertive and showing initiative were helpful skills/traits, but trying to get ahead at the expense of others didn't fly in my lab or the labs of any classmates (as far as I heard).

This all may be different in the programs with larger cohorts (e.g., 30, 40, 50+). But from the outside looking in, as an application reviewer and interviewer for internships and fellowships, the students from those programs I've interviewed who had impressive CVs didn't strike me as cut-throat. They were just very driven and disciplined.

 

[Sanman]

It really depends on the program as others have said. I will say, that my program was small, we all aspired to be clinicians, and we were picked as a cohort to fill openings the program had in different areas (we had a children and family person, two interested in college counseling, two neuropsych/assessment focused, and eating disorders interest, etc with similarly matched number of practicum rotations) so not much competition. One cohort below mine had a bit more competition as one person's interest changed and three were vying for two neuropsych practicums, etc. but it was rare. I imagine in larger labs or programs that are large and competitive for practicum rotations, etc that the situation could become more cutthroat. Definitely something look at when choosing a program.

 

[cara susanna]

Some cohorts are cliquey, I found. But it really depends.

 

[PsyDr]

I believe the term is "relational aggression".

 

[gohogwild]

It is going to be a little different from med school in most legit programs just because class sizes are much smaller. With 10-12 per cohort it is just very different. Being extroverted carries some benefits the way it does in nearly any professional context, but its not a big deal. Honestly, knowing many successful heavily introverted doctors I'm doubtful it matters all that much there too. Yes, being outgoing offers some advantages. Networking is important, but one doesn't need to be an extrovert to effectively network.

If you want to stand out, be good at statistics and/or publish like crazy. That goes way further than anything else.

Oh! Yes. That last part makes a lot of sense, the brief interactions I've had with clinical psych academic twitter is that there's a lot of bios with "stats nerd" in them or something similar. Thank you for your response.

 

[gohogwild]

Thank you all for your replies, I think there is a unifying message here and I don't want to be redundant in reponding to each of you but I really appreciate you offering up your experiences and observations.