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Radonc barely beat out em for last place.
Just noticed the official NRMP data was posted.
For PGY-1 categorical positions. 4 programs offering 10 positions. 2 unfilled programs. 6 US MD Seniors matched with 7 total matches (3 positions not matched).
For PGY-2 advanced positions. 83 programs offering 181 positions. 24 unfilled programs. 119 US MD Seniors out of 203 total applicants. 106 US MD Seniors matched out of 147 total matches (34 positions not matched). % filled by US MDs 58.6% and total positions filled 81.2%.
SOAP:
PGY-1; 3 positions offered and 1 filled.
PGY-2; 24 positions offered and 22 filled.
Going through the data in the NRMP rad onc is definitely a match bottom dweller by just about any metric!
Just noticed the official NRMP data was posted.
For PGY-1 categorical positions. 4 programs offering 10 positions. 2 unfilled programs. 6 US MD Seniors matched with 7 total matches (3 positions not matched).
For PGY-2 advanced positions. 83 programs offering 181 positions. 24 unfilled programs. 119 US MD Seniors out of 203 total applicants. 106 US MD Seniors matched out of 147 total matches (34 positions not matched). % filled by US MDs 58.6% and total positions filled 81.2%.
SOAP:
PGY-1; 3 positions offered and 1 filled.
PGY-2; 24 positions offered and 22 filled.
Going through the data in the NRMP rad onc is definitely a match bottom dweller by just about any metric!
I tweeted about this last week but unsurprisingly not a lot of discussion.
This is up from last year.
ASTRO/SCAROP should be ashamed of themselves.
Obviously no one at Scarop is willing to even consider reducing the number of people we are training (with the exception of harvard, mdacc and colorado). So many unnecessary training programs and residency positions. Can't even give them all away these days.
I'm offering $100,000 to anyone who will debate Ralph about our salaries!RFK Jr. told me that if you are a chair and you say the phrase "reduce training spots" you go to anti-trust jail. Or maybe someone at ASTRO told me that. Either way, just be safe out there.
I saw some post about X "in Radiation Oncology." Doesn't matter what X is. There are any number of them. What I don't have a clue about any more is what "radiation oncology" is. I mean, I know what do, but this idea that "radiation oncology" can be talked about as a highly connected thing that will regulate itself outside if academic departments or larger practices is an myth. It's just me out here, and I feel a part of my local community, not "radiation oncology." And I'm certainly happy about that.Our specialty has been destroyed by the greed and ego of top 10 academia. Thank goodness a few of us can # it out in the rural areas free from the insanity...
Do you feel like a big part of this purported "radiation oncology" community? Or that there even is one outside the academic grabassery? Point is, I generally don't know what anyone is talking about either.I'm gonna go with
I totally pick up what you’re throwing downDo you feel like a big part of this purported "radiation oncology" community? Or that there even is one outside the academic grabassery? Point is, I generally don't know what anyone is talking about either.
Meh. Not interested in a pay cut...
The community of # grows erry day. Join us....
Spots are not going unfilled. I have talked to a couple younger chairs who didn’t plan to SOAP. Then their VPMAs gave veiled threats about never having to go unmatched before ☹️
The chest thumping goes higher than us.
With the mismatch of residency spot numbers which have been relatively stagnant vs explosive growth in DO and for profit med schools the last several years, every spot will get filled, as some medical students simply go unmatched in anything now.
Exactly. Peak RadOnc 200 US Seniors. Currently 100-120 US Seniors.The key number to watch is total number of US MD Senior that match.
In context, it makes sense, but man is it hard to believe. I discovered the field by accident 20 years ago when I met the rad onc at a small regional hospital near where I went to school. I was already interested in cancer and knew this was where I wanted to be. Which meant I knew I had to be the best of the best all the way through training to get a good spot.Which is why only 109 US MD seniors are electing to pursue this as a career choice after med school.
I am so curious how any medstudent could think radonc would be safe (in terms of a job) for the next 40 years. Seems incredibly bad judgement and not someone I would ever want treating my family.In context, it makes sense, but man is it hard to believe. I discovered the field by accident 20 years ago when I met the rad onc at a small regional hospital near where I went to school. I was already interested in cancer and knew this was where I wanted to be. Which meant I knew I had to be the best of the best all the way through training to get a good spot.
Then again, we all still tried to get to Blockbuster early on Friday to make sure we could get a copy of the new releases back then too. I guess some titans have faired worse than us
No one tells them different.I am so curious how any medstudent could think radonc would be safe (in terms of a job) for the next 40 years.
How well do you remember your medical school class? Of all the lessons I learned, the scariest was realizing there is literally no correlation between good test scores and common sense.I am so curious how any medstudent could think radonc would be safe (in terms of a job) for the next 40 years. Seems incredibly bad judgement and not someone I would ever want treating my family.
Very well because I really busted my ass. There were some people like that but they were the exception. For the most part, the guys at the top of the class were almost always highly capable (Dan spratt types) and not just book smart.How well do you remember your medical school class? Of all the lessons I learned, the scariest was realizing there is literally no correlation between good test scores and common sense.
Blockbuster:hot businesses::Rad onc:hot residenciesIn context, it makes sense, but man is it hard to believe. I discovered the field by accident 20 years ago when I met the rad onc at a small regional hospital near where I went to school. I was already interested in cancer and knew this was where I wanted to be. Which meant I knew I had to be the best of the best all the way through training to get a good spot.
Then again, we all still tried to get to Blockbuster early on Friday to make sure we could get a copy of the new releases back then too. I guess some titans have faired worse than us
Guys- I meant to include girls as well. Success- you know it when you see it, whether private practice or academics. Many, but not all, went into academics.The quiet polite women were the smartest (grade wise).
Define success after graduation: academic accomplishment? most money? most prestigious training program / specialty?
Meh
I mean... Dan is a chair. A young chair. He seems super weirdly driven in other areas too. So I get what you're saying.For the most part, the guys at the top of the class were almost always highly capable (Dan spratt types) and not just book smart.
DS came on here and suggested a new era for rad onc “leadership”, yet when it came time to show this, the program quietly filled. Ain’t it funny how that is! There is no other option than to shut down all these hellpits.
no doubt we are losing out on top people, but I am concerned abt the average applicant. The poor judgement inherent in selecting radonc is a real issue that we have to confront and not sweep under the rug. When it comes to one of the most important decisions in life, who looks around (and yes that includes social media) and concludes that employment in radiation is really promising for the next 40 yrs. Would you want someone with such poor judgement treating a family member?I mean... Dan is a chair. A young chair. He seems super weirdly driven in other areas too. So I get what you're saying.
But presently, if you choose rad onc as a career path, how "highly capable" can you really be? You're sure not going to, more than likely, wind up changing the trajectory of oncology like a Craig Jordan or Dennis Slamon. You're not likely at all to wind up being a dean or president. You're instead at high risk of winding up in academic satellite for many years being arguably underemployed and certainly underpaid versus same such peers in same such jobs ~20 years ago. Rad onc is over-supplied both in people and equipment/technology, its utilization footprint has been creeping downward for decades, many of the cancers we commonly treat are getting less common, and many non-rad onc treatments seem poised to reduce the rad onc footprint even further.
I heard another rad onc recently say re: current rad onc chairs, "He may, deep down, realize he's the king, but king of S**t Mountain." The *truly* highly capable people to which you're referring... and we both know "the type" very well... I just don't think they're choosing rad onc now.
Basically if you aren't going to MDAH, MSK, or maybe a couple other programs, I don't even know why you'd go into the field. There is zero room to be at anything other than a 1A program.. and even that is pretty damned iffy at this point.no doubt we are losing out on top people, but I am concerned abt the average applicant. The poor judgement inherent in selecting radonc is a real issue that we have to confront and not sweep under the rug. When it comes to one of the most important decisions in life, who looks around (and yes that includes social media) and concludes that radiation is a sure bet as a job for the next 40 yrs. Would you want someone with this kind of judgement treating a family member.
Who would you want as your radonc - an applicant who carefully evaluated the state of the specialty and now feels it has a great future. vs someone who barely passed med school due to drug/criminal/mental issues and grabbed whatever they could get into, but is now on the straight and narrow?
I wonder what percent of these docs are going into work in centers that are not in the top 20 biggest cities in the US. Rest of America needs rad oncs too.Basically if you aren't going to MDAH, MSK, or maybe a couple other programs, I don't even know why you'd go into the field. There is zero room to be at anything other than a 1A program.. and even that is pretty damned iffy at this point.
The name only helps land your 1st job (probably at some satellite) and then you are largely on your own. The idea that today a doc is set for life after landing a 1st job is common, and quite laughable. (Maybe 15 yrs ago with sero, Princeton group, and that’s why xrt was competitive ) Everyone needs raises, promotions, advancements for career satisfaction, which largely depend on a healthy job market. Down the line, no one is going to advance you because you were once a resident at mskcc.Basically if you aren't going to MDAH, MSK, or maybe a couple other programs, I don't even know why you'd go into the field. There is zero room to be at anything other than a 1A program.. and even that is pretty damned iffy at this point.
Even in academics, it can be hard to get a substantial raise unless you have viable offer to leave.That is correct especially in private practice where social skillz (and/or brownnosing) can make or break you.
I was thinking more along the lines of getting into academia as at least it would be a) in a major city and b) stable.
But the truly gifted? Well..
Only a select few are good enough.. the few, the proud.... #
I wonder what percent of these docs are going into work in centers that are not in the top 20 biggest cities in the US. Rest of America needs rad oncs too.
Well, Harvard is known for producing docs whose mission it is to serve the underserved...3/4 of the rad oncs at this clinic in rural Santa Barbara are from Harvard.
Healthcare Providers | Ridley-Tree Cancer Center
Find a doctor in the cancer specialty you want who is accepting new patients at Ridley-Tree Cancer Center.www.ridleytreecc.org
DS came on here and suggested a new era for rad onc “leadership”, yet when it came time to show this, the program quietly filled. Ain’t it funny how that is! There is no other option than to shut down all these hellpits.
I remember at Astro when I was a resident, adam raben ( a lot of radoncs in that family) showing a slide of exposed breasts and likening the first job contract to first time (seeing this) and cautioning that we will have long career ahead of us, that the game is far from over. I am sure he would be cancelled for this today.The name only helps land your 1st job (probably at some satellite) and then you are largely on your own. The idea that today a doc is set for life after landing a 1st job is common, and quite laughable. (Maybe 15 yrs ago with sero, Princeton group, and that’s why xrt was competitive ) Everyone needs raises, promotions, advancements for career satisfaction, which largely depend on a healthy job market. Down the line, no one is going to advance you because you were once a resident at mskcc.
I remember at Astro when I was a resident, adam raben showing a slide of exposed breasts and likening the first job contract to first time (seeing this) and cautioning that we will have long career ahead of us, that the game is far from over. I am sure he would be cancelled for this today.
To be fair, it's hard to "change the trajectory" of oncology as a med/onc as well, unless you work for pharma -in which case, your contributions will be anonymous anyway.I mean... Dan is a chair. A young chair. He seems super weirdly driven in other areas too. So I get what you're saying.
But presently, if you choose rad onc as a career path, how "highly capable" can you really be? You're sure not going to, more than likely, wind up changing the trajectory of oncology like a Craig Jordan or Dennis Slamon. You're not likely at all to wind up being a dean or president. You're instead at high risk of winding up in academic satellite for many years being arguably underemployed and certainly underpaid versus same such peers in same such jobs ~20 years ago. Rad onc is over-supplied both in people and equipment/technology, its utilization footprint has been creeping downward for decades, many of the cancers we commonly treat are getting less common, and many non-rad onc treatments seem poised to reduce the rad onc footprint even further.
I heard another rad onc recently say re: current rad onc chairs, "He may, deep down, realize he's the king, but king of S**t Mountain." The *truly* highly capable people to which you're referring... and we both know "the type" very well... I just don't think they're choosing rad onc now.
BEAUTIFUL report, NO COLLUSION!ASTRO "worries about anti-trust" but there is this
SCAROP Financial Survey - American Society for Radiation Oncology (ASTRO) - American Society for Radiation Oncology (ASTRO)
Learn about the 2021 SCAROP Financial Survey's background, participating institutions and purchasing instruction.www.astro.org
The confidential data primarily represents radiation oncology departments from United States medical schools.
The final report is made available for purchase by SCAROP members only.
No collusion here..move along
As they now represent the majority of employers of new grads, how is this not collusion? If anyone wants to crowdsource suing Astro, no better use for earmarked dues . Would love to put Astro scarop etc through discovery.ASTRO "worries about anti-trust" but there is this
SCAROP Financial Survey - American Society for Radiation Oncology (ASTRO) - American Society for Radiation Oncology (ASTRO)
Learn about the 2021 SCAROP Financial Survey's background, participating institutions and purchasing instruction.www.astro.org
The confidential data primarily represents radiation oncology departments from United States medical schools.
The final report is made available for purchase by SCAROP members only.
No collusion here..move along