So is dermatology full of former gunners?

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oompa loompa

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I don't necessarily mean in-your-face backstabbing gunners, but just those intense hardcore-studiers who are also smart....you know, the ones who have photographic memories and absorb all the info like sponges.

because if it's going to be like that, I'm going to feel inadequate all my life, and maybe I should end my derm plans right now.

anyone know what the atmosphere in derm residency is like?
I always thought derm would be a low-key field given the nature of what they study/treat, you know, nothing like neurosurgery or plastics. But if it's that freakin hard to get a residency in derm, then I think it would naturally select for the brightest, most intense people. Or am I wrong?
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The derm folks at my program are pretty chill. The barriers are artificial. If you have a work ethic you can hit 230-240 on step 1 without a sweat, if you're smart you can do better than that...from what I've seen* that will get your foot in the door. Other than that, do some research and apply broadly. What do you have to lose? As far as feeling inferior...inteligence only goes so far in looking at a kid and saying "hey you've got acne, let me put you on Acutain", you're afraid other people are going to do that better than you?

*disclaimer: I am not and will not be, an insider in the "elite" field of derm so my advice should be taken with a grain of salt.
 
I can't answer that question for you either. But in the event that scenario is true, I would say it works better for those students who aren't back-stabbers.

It's not hard to tell who's an uber-competitive weenie and who's a laid-back person. As a patient, I think it's obvious who I would like to see as my doctor.

Booksmarts will help you get into the residency program. Being a thoughtful, caring, helpful human being will help you be the best doctor!
 
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ok, so 2 responses (thanks, btw) and 359 views. Hmmm, should this be telling me that lots of kids are interested in going into derm but no one really cares to give advice? Or maybe there's no advice to give. I dunno, I feel like this observation is in line with the fact that my school's derm interest group is the only group that has not done a single event yet. Not even a "hi, thanks for joining" email.
 
You don't necessarily have to be a gunner, but you definitely have to smart and hard-working. Derm is highly numbers-based. The program director of my school just happens to be my dermatologist, so whenever I see him I ask him about derm. He told me that the cut-off at our institution for application reviewal is 250 Step1. Additionally, he said basically everyone that gets interviewed is AOA. Now I happen to go to a Cali school, so obviously it's gonna be tougher to get in. However, when you look at the NRMP data, you see that the average board score is almost 240 and over 50% of matched applicants were AOA.
 
oompa loompa said:
I don't necessarily mean in-your-face backstabbing gunners, but just those intense hardcore-studiers who are also smart....you know, the ones who have photographic memories and absorb all the info like sponges.

because if it's going to be like that, I'm going to feel inadequate all my life, and maybe I should end my derm plans right now.

anyone know what the atmosphere in derm residency is like?
I always thought derm would be a low-key field given the nature of what they study/treat, you know, nothing like neurosurgery or plastics. But if it's that freakin hard to get a residency in derm, then I think it would naturally select for the brightest, most intense people. Or am I wrong?
Click to expand...

Here it is, straight and simple: Dermatology residency is very competitive and difficult to obtain. According to the 2005 NRMP statistics, dermatology is the #2 most competitive residency (plastic surgery is the #1 most competitive residency).

https://services.aamc.org/Publicati...version68.pdf&prd_id=159&prv_id=189&pdf_id=68

Yes, this means that most Derm programs select the brightest in the crop of applicants (even the low tier Derm programs). In general, people who match in Derm have outstanding grades, great USMLE scores, Derm publications, research, and very praising letters of recommendations. However, not all of them are intense "gunners" and "backstabbers" per se. Most are actually nice and pleasant.

Think of it this way. Derm is a great lifestyle specialty that offers good pay and many people find this attractive. But you have to work hard and study your as$ off to obtain it. Hopefully, through your hard work hard, you can match in a Derm residency. Because once you match in a Derm residency, your life is set thereafter. As with all things in life, anything you see as precious and valuable is worth the hard work (blood, sweat, and tears) to obtain it.
 
cdql said:
I can't answer that question for you either. But in the event that scenario is true, I would say it works better for those students who aren't back-stabbers.

It's not hard to tell who's an uber-competitive weenie and who's a laid-back person. As a patient, I think it's obvious who I would like to see as my doctor.

Booksmarts will help you get into the residency program. Being a thoughtful, caring, helpful human being will help you be the best doctor!
Click to expand...

Yea OK. Because Americans do their research on doctors before selecting one and throughly research their politican before voting on him. [/sarcasm]

Fact is that probably 85+% of people have the same doctor that they just picked out of a phone book when first relocating OR the same doctor they've gone to since a child.. and whichever derm doctor they are refered to by their primary doc.. is their dermatologist..

Maybe after unsuccessful treatment of problems will a person get fed up with the treatments a doctor has given.. NOT his 'uber-comeptitiveness'
 
don't forget the most important factor in dermatology residency:

being beautiful! Derm is for beautiful people only with great skin. if you're busted, you're basically screwed.
 
oompa loompa said:
I don't necessarily mean in-your-face backstabbing gunners, but just those intense hardcore-studiers who are also smart....you know, the ones who have photographic memories and absorb all the info like sponges.

because if it's going to be like that, I'm going to feel inadequate all my life, and maybe I should end my derm plans right now.

anyone know what the atmosphere in derm residency is like?
I always thought derm would be a low-key field given the nature of what they study/treat, you know, nothing like neurosurgery or plastics. But if it's that freakin hard to get a residency in derm, then I think it would naturally select for the brightest, most intense people. Or am I wrong?
Click to expand...



i dont think there are many veterans in Dermatology, but i'm not sure about the Navy stats exactly....supposing u mean a gunner on a battleship.
 
I haven't looked much into the Derm forum here - hell, I am a first year. But what IS the general consensus on board scores to match derm? My preceptor for 1st year is a dermatologist, and man does it look appealing - so of course, I have to have the pipe dream that I could make it happen for the moment. :) I fear I am just way toooo average of a med student though to even consider it. When do people do derm-related research? What is a comfortable step 1?
 
It's impossible that you are "way too an average applicant" as a first year. There is nothing to base that on yet. You are in an ideal position: You know that you may want to do a competetive specialty, and you are only a first year. You have plenty of road ahead of you. Here is the secret formula if you want to match into derm:

1) Make connections - like everything else in life, it's who you know. Cuddle up with your precepter and have him/her introduce you to their friends.

2) Publication (s) in derm. Get that preceptor to hook you up with a sweet project NOW while you have time to do it. You've got plenty of time to get a publication or two by the end of med school.

3) Boards/grades: I actually think this is becoming more of a moot issue in derm. This is because essentially every applicant has competetive scores..so it is a given that you will just have that if you apply. You gotta do that and more by having other stuff that makes you stand out.

4) Plan on doing away rotations your fourth year. For any competetive field, I think doing several away rotations is an excellent idea. It is the best way to guarantee a few interviews, because most programs interview those candidates that have rotated through (unless you are a hoser). So rotate early, often and impress the hell out of them.

You can't go wrong with derm in my opinion. I haven't met any unhappy dermatologists. So if you like it, go for it. If you start preparing for derm now and then change your mind as a 3rd or 4th year..that's ok because your preparation for derm will have prepared you for any other specialty you chose! Good luck :luck:
 
Out of curiousity, if you go as far as to do all your aways in derm and then change your mind, doesn't that hamper your ability to transition into other (less but still very) competitive fields?

I'm sure the good grades and exams are universally helpful. But wouldn't programs in say ortho prefer students with ortho away rotations and ortho research?
 
By the time you are a 4th year and doing away rotations..hopefully you'll have figured out what you're going into by then. If not, then no, I don't think it would be a good idea to do a bunch of aways in one field. In your case, your time would perhaps be better spent at your home institution figuring out what to do with your life...

However, if someone knows that they want to go into Derm (or any other competetive field), I think away rotations are MONEY.
 
Thanks for the advice! :) Very helpful, and encouraging. I don't have honors @ my school, but do have a class rank. If not AOA, where do you want to be, in a class of 100?
 
Well, as high as humanly possible. Any academic achievement will bolster your application. However, I'm not a big believer that you HAVE to be #1 or top 1/3 or even top 2/3 to get into a field like Derm. I don't think there are many factors that will absolutely disqualify an applicant from ANY field, derm included. There are certainly things that make it easier to get in (grades, boards, publications, etc). But, in the end, I'm of the paradigm that ANYONE from ANY school with ANY BOARD SCORE and ANY class rank can EVENTUALLY break into ANY FIELD that they want to...but you have to be very determined and willing to do whatever it takes (including not matching one or more times). I think that if you are not a hoser and are willing to do research and keep making contacts in the field, you'll eventually get in no matter what you look like on paper.

Anyway, that's my take. You gotta keep in mind here that I'm not even going into derm. But I am a mere mortal trying to break into a field with similar competetiveness (radonc) and have several friends going into derm. I don't think the secret formula is that different between fields: who you know + publications + strong academic performance. If you're lacking in one area (ie-academic performance) I think you can compenstate for that in one of the other areas. The only thing you can't compensate for is being a hoser..so as long as you're not that, you'll get in if you want to bad enough! Good luck! ND.
 
Flyfisher said:
don't forget the most important factor in dermatology residency:

being beautiful! Derm is for beautiful people only with great skin. if you're busted, you're basically screwed.
Click to expand...

i wonder how much it costs to do an "assskin to faceskin" transplant? :laugh:
 
"drops trousers to check"

nope

fairskinned, hairless, and pimpleless

reflection perfection!
 
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