So, I left medical school.

[Mad Jack]

Not sure if you're serious, but I was curious, so here's a WashU event of some sort (let's just say that I doubt WashU has to, or had to, worry about any of them leaving for modeling careers):

I can definitely confirm the average student at my school is more attractive than the average student in that picture. Damn, I thought med schools were just full of attractive people, but I guess we're just some kind of anomaly.

---

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[TwinsFan]

I have seen gunners at all types of schools, DO, low and top tier MD. At lower ranked schools I noticed a number of chip-on-their shoulder types and at top schools there are just a lot of always-been-on-top types from top undergrads. This is not MD or DO specific from what I've seen.

 

[Donald Juan]

Hey @Mad Jack and @Donald Juan what signs should 1 look for as clues to the culture of a medical school in terms of competetiveness/gunner? What kind of questions should 1 ask and what sign should 1 look for?

No clue, maybe my posts in this thread misrepresented me, but I'm not necessarily of the idea that schools are necessarily "gunnerish" or not. I think wherever you go you need to do what is best for what you want out of your career and not get dragged into what other students do, and I don't think that a school being competitive automatically equates to being cutthroat or anything else negative.

 

[wiggitywack12]

Thanks for sharing your experience.

As a second year student, I agree with a lot of the points you've made about medical school.

Many students do decide to go into medicine without really understanding what they are getting themselves into. It is difficult for someone who does not have doctor parents to really understand what life as a medical student / resident / doctor is like. You can try asking physicians to let you shadow them, but its a pretty big inconvenience to them due to privacy laws and such.

In my experience, I found that first year was manageable - I still had a social life and was able to spend time with family and friends, but during second year that changed and my entire life became study study study. I don't think everyone had this experience though. Those who are natural memorizers seemed to have a much easier time and a better life balance. So the better you are at memorizing, the easier time you will have.

I speak to my colleagues who are in 3rd and 4th year and I know it won't get easier. Long shifts. Sleepless nights. And MORE studying for board exams. This is followed by residency, a time in your life where you are 250k in debt but make no more than your average STEM bachelor graduate starting salary and work anywhere from 60-100 hours per week (depending on specialty) for 3 years. It's absolutely gruelling and not in any way conducive to a healthy lifestyle. Those that do manage a healthy lifestyle are absolute machines with almost zero free time to themselves.

Just because I don't want this to be an entirely negative post, here are the good things I see in medicine:
- It is the most streamlined way to land a high paying job (albeit at a 250k debt sacrifice)
- It can be incredibly rewarding (albeit probably less than 30% of the time - YMMV)

If you can think you can be happy doing anything else, seriously consider it. But if medicine is the only thing that will bring you joy, you better be prepared to deal with some serious sacrifices.

Meh this is just more proof that med school, and life for that matter, is going to be what you make of it. I've heard about a million different opinions on preclinical vs clinical years...a lot of students say 3rd and 4th year were their favorites and they had more free time in 4th year than they knew what to do with.

Also most medical students I know heavily encourage AGAINST memorization. There's way too much info to be just memorizing, you need to be understanding primarily is what I've heard most often.

Most people make around 55-60K in residency and some programs subsidize living costs and allow for moonlighting which can increase a residents take home to nearly or at 100K if they want to moonlight. And unfortunately 55K is actually still above the average stem starting salary with only a bachelors degree unless we're talking computer science/engineering most with only a bio degree see around 35K and lets not even get started on non STEM graduates who the overwhelming majority will leave undergrad with nearly or above six figure debt and have to compete for a job at AppleBee's.

Most of the physicians I know are healthy and happy with their lifestyle but miserable people and complainers exist in every profession and tax bracket....medicine is no different. Perhaps this just wasn't her life path, I do think its unfortunate that she found this out half way through, but this doesn't change the fact that at least 97% of med students get through it just fine year after year.

So, I don't think this has anything to do with medical school itself, the process is designed that you know what you're getting into and applicants should be investigative enough to find out for themselves before they sign up. I think its just that she discovered it wasn't for her....she's in a very small minority though but good for her.

 

[charmiedermie]

No, definitely not

But yes, turn this into an opportunity to attack me because you're utterly incapable of reading comprehension

Ironic you would say I'm attacking you, when you have no qualms of doing the same to me (and others). If you didn't notice gunners in your class, then you weren't looking hard enough.

 

[Pacna]

Some of the factors I weighed when I applied only DO were exactly the things she brought up as a problem, largely to do with culture and fit. It actually makes me feel a lot better about my decision, because I'd have probably ended up like her if I'd gone MD.

No joke, my MD school sounds exactly like your DO school. Knew I liked you for a reason.

In fact, my school is so unfamiliar with gunners that we think a gunner is just someone who works harder than you and thus indirectly makes you feel bad for not also working that hard.

 

[charmiedermie]

I don't know SS in real life, but he strikes me as very much not the gunner type.

A gunner is usually a middle-of-the-road quality student who can't succeed on his or her own merit, resorting to underhanded/sneaky tactics to drag others down so they may look better by comparison.

Then maybe "competitive" is more accurate.

 

[URMD]

No clue, maybe my posts in this thread misrepresented me, but I'm not necessarily of the idea that schools are necessarily "gunnerish" or not. I think wherever you go you need to do what is best for what you want out of your career and not get dragged into what other students do, and I don't think that a school being competitive automatically equates to being cutthroat or anything else negative.

Yea I get that, but it really helped me in undergrad to surround myself with like-minded people who helped each other study, share notes, practice tests etc. and I would like to have that same kind of environment in medical school. I imagine that kind of thing will be harder to find in "gunner schools" but it seems like no matter what I ask I won't know for sure until i actually matriculate because they're either lying if they say no or they are if they say yes lol

 

[ASD2019]

Meh this is just more proof that med school, and life for that matter, is going to be what you make of it. I've heard about a million different opinions on preclinical vs clinical years...a lot of students say 3rd and 4th year were their favorites and they had more free time in 4th year than they knew what to do with.

Also most medical students I know heavily encourage AGAINST memorization. There's way too much info to be just memorizing, you need to be understanding primarily is what I've heard most often.

Most people make around 55-60K in residency and some programs subsidize living costs and allow for moonlighting which can increase a residents take home to nearly or at 100K if they want to moonlight. And unfortunately 55K is actually still above the average stem starting salary with only a bachelors degree unless we're talking computer science/engineering most with only a bio degree see around 35K and lets not even get started on non STEM graduates who the overwhelming majority will leave undergrad with nearly or above six figure debt and have to compete for a job at AppleBee's.

Most of the physicians I know are healthy and happy with their lifestyle but miserable people and complainers exist in every profession and tax bracket....medicine is no different. Perhaps this just wasn't her life path, I do think its unfortunate that she found this out half way through, but this doesn't change the fact that at least 97% of med students get through it just fine year after year.

So, I don't think this has anything to do with medical school itself, the process is designed that you know what you're getting into and applicants should be investigative enough to find out for themselves before they sign up. I think its just that she discovered it wasn't for her....she's in a very small minority though but good for her.

You still might be high off the acceptance, but an MD degree isn't equivalent to a bachelors degree. It's a doctorate. I don't see how you think a resident getting paid less the nurses following his/her orders is an encouraging thing? And do you know how many hours residents work to suggest moonlighting? I think your post is a perfect example of the fact that most of us coming in (myself included) aren't fully aware of the reality. I think the most important thing is to go into medicine for the right reasons (which may be different for everyone).

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Then maybe "competitive" is more accurate.

My medical school class was awesome. Tons of great friends, and a very collegial atmosphere. I was quite run of the mill.

 

[wiggitywack12]

You still might be high off the acceptance, but an MD degree isn't equivalent to a bachelors degree. It's a doctorate. I don't see how you think a resident getting paid less the nurses following his/her orders is an encouraging thing? And do you know how many hours residents work to suggest moonlighting? I think your post is a perfect example that most of us coming in (myself included) aren't fully aware of the reality. I think the most important thing is going into medicine for the right reasons (which is different for everyone).

Residency is a part of training, it isn't the final destination, I don't recall typing that it was an encouraging thing (whatever that would mean) simply that I didn't see it as a major negative. A lot of Americans will retire at 50K and less....why would I complain about making that for 3-4 years when it will change afterwards?

 

[Chemdude]

To be honest, most people that withdraw/fail out of medical school have underlying problems with depression and anxiety. If you have an underlying problem with depression and anxiety, you are bound to have a major episode that will greatly hinder your career. I've seen a lot of my peers struggle through medical school due to depression, and I think that they would have struggled in any other field. A lot of people talk about the difficulty of medical school...the truth is that medical school is not as difficult as people make it out to be. Medical school (especially the preclinical years) are very doable if you are an average, hardworking student. The most stressful part of being a doctor comes after you graduate from medical school; during residency and clinical practice.

 

[Donald Juan]

Meh this is just more proof that med school, and life for that matter, is going to be what you make of it. I've heard about a million different opinions on preclinical vs clinical years...a lot of students say 3rd and 4th year were their favorites and they had more free time in 4th year than they knew what to do with.

Also most medical students I know heavily encourage AGAINST memorization. There's way too much info to be just memorizing, you need to be understanding primarily is what I've heard most often.

Most people make around 55-60K in residency and some programs subsidize living costs and allow for moonlighting which can increase a residents take home to nearly or at 100K if they want to moonlight. And unfortunately 55K is actually still above the average stem starting salary with only a bachelors degree unless we're talking computer science/engineering most with only a bio degree see around 35K and lets not even get started on non STEM graduates who the overwhelming majority will leave undergrad with nearly or above six figure debt and have to compete for a job at AppleBee's.

Most of the physicians I know are healthy and happy with their lifestyle but miserable people and complainers exist in every profession and tax bracket....medicine is no different. Perhaps this just wasn't her life path, I do think its unfortunate that she found this out half way through, but this doesn't change the fact that at least 97% of med students get through it just fine year after year.

So, I don't think this has anything to do with medical school itself, the process is designed that you know what you're getting into and applicants should be investigative enough to find out for themselves before they sign up. I think its just that she discovered it wasn't for her....she's in a very small minority though but good for her.

Are you trying to derail this thread? Good luck getting though med school without memorizing things. It's fine to say understand things, but when you're on an exam and trying to remember if it's clozapine or quetiapine that causes this specific side effect or has higher action at a particular receptor...it's memorization. Also, I don't know where you get 55-60k average for residency....that's high unless you're in an area with a cost of living that will offset it grossly. Either way, it doesn't compete with your 300k loans accruing almost 20k interest a year. And anyways, it's not like the OP was talking about physician compensation in her video anyways, it was about lifestyle and blind ambition...being young and thinking nothing else outside of being a physician mattered, dealing with the high competition of medical school, being a naive premed who thinks they can do anything to be a physician, and keeping up with the day to day fire hydrant that blasts in your face.

I mean, I don't want to jump all over you. You're right, life is what you make of it, 3rd and 4th year are better than the first two for the majority of students (although, the amount of free time you have is less...), and physicians often have less to complain about compared to people in other various walks of life even though they might be more vocal about it...but you kind of went off kilter to the OP and struck a cord with me here.

 

[charmiedermie]

My medical school class was awesome. Tons of great friends, and a very collegial atmosphere. I was quite run of the mill.

I'm sure if you were to ask any of them, they would classify themselves as "run of the mill" out of modesty. Very few gunners or competitive people will come out and say they are those things.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I'm sure if you were to ask any of them, they would classify themselves as "run of the mill" out of modesty. Very few gunners or competitive people will come out and say they are those things.

You're an idiot

 

[wiggitywack12]

Are you trying to derail this thread? Good luck getting though med school without memorizing things. It's fine to say understand things, but when you're on an exam and trying to remember if it's clozapine or quetiapine that causes this specific side effect or has higher action at a particular receptor...it's memorization. Also, I don't know where you get 55-60k average for residency....that's high unless you're in an area with a cost of living that will offset it grossly. Either way, it doesn't compete with your 300k loans accruing almost 20k interest a year. And anyways, it's not like the OP was talking about physician compensation in her video anyways, it was about lifestyle and blind ambition...being young and thinking nothing else outside of being a physician mattered, dealing with the high competition of medical school, being a naive premed who thinks they can do anything to be a physician, and keeping up with the day to day fire hydrant that blasts in your face.

I mean, I don't want to jump all over you. You're right, life is what you make of it, 3rd and 4th year are better than the first two for the majority of students (although, the amount of free time you have is less...), and physicians often have less to complain about compared to people in other various walks of life even though they might be more vocal about it...but you kind of went off kilter to the OP and struck a cord with me here.

I was replying to fullmetal, not the OP....the residency salary data was what I read off current program websites. Most PGY-1 started at 53 and went up each year until 58K some of them might have been in expensive cities but I looked through a couple so I don't remember exactly which ones.

And yes, med loans are big but are they impossible to pay off? No. They're a commitment but not this insurmountable load of debt. With financial discipline they'll be paid off.

 

[Chemdude]

I just noticed that there's a new "Medical Student (Accepted)" user status. Why are you guys wasting your time arguing about something you haven't experienced yet lol? Go outside and have some fun.

 

[wiggitywack12]

I just noticed that there's a new "Medical Student (Accepted)" user status. Why are you guys wasting your time arguing about something you haven't experienced yet lol? Go outside and have some fun.

Trust me I'd love to! LOL. Can't say anything else because I don't want to derail this thread.

 

[charmiedermie]

You're an idiot

No need to attack or take it personally. I'm talking about in general, if asked, no one will describe themselves pejoratively as being a gunner or competitive, whether true or not.

 

[Serous Demilune]

Hm... when I blatantly insult other members I get put on probation but it looks like mods don't always play by the rules.

OP, you are incredibly brave for making and posting that. I truly believe you will find success in whatever it is you choose next, based on the person I watched in the video. Thank you, and I hope it reaches your target audience the way you wanted it to.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

No need to attack or take it personally. I'm talking about in general, if asked, no one will describe themselves pejoratively as being a gunner or competitive.

No, you very clearly were going after me. Like you do daily, following me around from thread to thread complaining.

 

[operaman]

It never ceases to baffle me how we can be in this field and attack people for working hard and wanting to be the best they can be. Give me SS as a colleague over anyone who whines about gunners.

OP, I'm sorry things worked out this way, but you know yourself and it sounds like you made the right decision for you.

On a personal note, now that I'm at the end of med school, I have a very different impression of what "med school" means than I did when I was a second year. I enjoyed the preclinical years, especially coming from a non-science background where everything was fresh and new to me, but these last two years have just been great. Like anything in life, medical school is what you make of it and things matter only as much as you let them matter. It's definitely a place where it pays to focus on yourself and basically ignore what all your classmates are saying and doing. That isn't to disparage the others, but a reflection of the fact that we're all individuals and we all have to find our own way. If someone wants to gun or be a douche, that's fine; I'm still going to do what I need to do.

 

[fancymylotus]

Cute instagram bunny says let's not fight. And go back to talking about on topic stuff before we all get bright blue-ed

 

[BorntobeDO?]

After almost completing year two, I voluntarily withdrew from medical school. Truthfully, I couldn't handle the stress without being an unhealthy person. For anyone who is interested, or who may be struggling with a similar decision, I've recorded a video discussing my experience:

Your burned out, I feel for you. I dont think your making a bad choice for the moment, but I find myself hoping you can come back later. Sounds like you didnt have a lot in common with the other students in your class either. Your video makes me sad because I can see what a talented person you must be beneath the shambles. I would give you a hug if I saw you in person, and I will pray for you. You deserve to be happy, and I applaud you for trying to be, and for trying to help others with this video. I hope that you are able to find the silver lining in this and more importantly, fulfillment in whatever you choose to do.

 

[Serous Demilune]

.

 

[charmiedermie]

No, you very clearly were going after me. Like you do daily, following me around from thread to thread complaining.

No, I wasn't. That's your interpretation. Just because you feel the need to reply in every single thread doesn't mean I'm following you, especially since you feel the need to respond and correct everyone's posts, including myself. See your response to @KinasePro calling his posts obnoxious and misinterpreting his posts.

 

[ASD2019]

Residency is a part of training, it isn't the final destination, I don't recall typing that it was an encouraging thing (whatever that would mean) simply that I didn't see it as a major negative. A lot of Americans will retire at 50K and less....why would I complain about making that for 3-4 years when it will change afterwards?

You were trying to justify resident pay with all of your comparisons... So what if a lot of Americans retire with less than 50K? A lot of these Americans don't put in a fraction of the work required for a physician. Per buck basis, physicians work a lot harder to earn their buck.

 

[alpinism]

Meh this is just more proof that med school, and life for that matter, is going to be what you make of it. I've heard about a million different opinions on preclinical vs clinical years...a lot of students say 3rd and 4th year were their favorites and they had more free time in 4th year than they knew what to do with.

Also most medical students I know heavily encourage AGAINST memorization. There's way too much info to be just memorizing, you need to be understanding primarily is what I've heard most often.

Most people make around 55-60K in residency and some programs subsidize living costs and allow for moonlighting which can increase a residents take home to nearly or at 100K if they want to moonlight. And unfortunately 55K is actually still above the average stem starting salary with only a bachelors degree unless we're talking computer science/engineering most with only a bio degree see around 35K and lets not even get started on non STEM graduates who the overwhelming majority will leave undergrad with nearly or above six figure debt and have to compete for a job at AppleBee's.

Most of the physicians I know are healthy and happy with their lifestyle but miserable people and complainers exist in every profession and tax bracket....medicine is no different. Perhaps this just wasn't her life path, I do think its unfortunate that she found this out half way through, but this doesn't change the fact that at least 97% of med students get through it just fine year after year.

So, I don't think this has anything to do with medical school itself, the process is designed that you know what you're getting into and applicants should be investigative enough to find out for themselves before they sign up. I think its just that she discovered it wasn't for her....she's in a very small minority though but good for her.

Try this for your 1st anatomy exam and see what happens.

Med school is 10% about understanding fundamental concepts and 90% about memorizing factoids.

The understanding part is absolutely important, but its not what you'll be tested on come exam time.

 

[wiggitywack12]

Try this for your 1st anatomy exam and see what happens.

Med school is 10% about understanding fundamental concepts and 90% about memorizing factoids.

The understanding part is absolutely important, but its not what you'll be tested on come exam time.

I was sharing what medical students that have been through it (they're all practicing now because they did a 6 year BS/MD program) advised to express that everyone says a million different contradicting things...I didn't say that I personally won't find what works for me when I get there.

 

[Danbo1957]

Seems to me that she could not learn the material, every complaint that she offers stems from that...

 

[wiggitywack12]

You were trying to justify resident pay with all of your comparisons... So what if a lot of Americans retire with less than 50K? A lot of these Americans don't put in a fraction of the work required for a physician. Per buck basis, physicians work a lot harder to earn their buck.

1. Someone listed resident pay in a way that I interpreted as sort of critical or negative. Those comparisons were my personal rationalizations as to why in the bigger picture I didn't see it as a negative. The gov pays the residents and we're still not full attendings at that point, we still need training and supervision so I don't think its this big affront to the field of medicine that residents get paid what they do. This is my opinion, its personal.

2. Physicians work harder and they earn more. That's fair. A resident is not an attending physician.

 

[BrooklynBulls]

To be honest, most people that withdraw/fail out of medical school have underlying problems with depression and anxiety. If you have an underlying problem with depression and anxiety, you are bound to have a major episode that will greatly hinder your career. I've seen a lot of my peers struggle through medical school due to depression, and I think that they would have struggled in any other field. A lot of people talk about the difficulty of medical school...the truth is that medical school is not as difficult as people make it out to be. Medical school (especially the preclinical years) are very doable if you are an average, hardworking student. The most stressful part of being a doctor comes after you graduate from medical school; during residency and clinical practice.

You have a general point that I think is really important: medical school is often times as hard as you make it, as hard as life circumstances allow it to be, and as hard as a lot of other real-world environments.

There needs to be introspection about the type of learner you are, what type of test-taker you are, what type of environment you prefer, what type of stress you can versus cannot handle, the end goal toward which you are working. In general most unhappiness I've seen is more than having a chemical imbalance; it's a result of broken dreams and ambition and drive that exceeds realistic ability. It's a chicken-egg situation. Are they anxious and depressed, causing them to fail med school? Or did their failure cause their mental issues? It's a bit of both, imo.

I think people need more often to look in the mirror and decide if they can be happy and pass while not living on the very edge of their ability. It's an unsustainable request to make of yourself. The happiest people I know in school are the ones that did NOT have to study ceaselessly in order to make the grades/scores in order to achieve the specialty they want.

Because you nailed it. It doesn't get easier. It just gets harder. I never want to be the guy that DID manage to squeak into x specialty by the skin of his teeth, at the worst program, in a location not of his choosing, with a bunch of people more qualified than he. That's a recipe for longer-term pain.

 

[Psai]

Meh this is just more proof that med school, and life for that matter, is going to be what you make of it. I've heard about a million different opinions on preclinical vs clinical years...a lot of students say 3rd and 4th year were their favorites and they had more free time in 4th year than they knew what to do with.

Also most medical students I know heavily encourage AGAINST memorization. There's way too much info to be just memorizing, you need to be understanding primarily is what I've heard most often.

Most people make around 55-60K in residency and some programs subsidize living costs and allow for moonlighting which can increase a residents take home to nearly or at 100K if they want to moonlight. And unfortunately 55K is actually still above the average stem starting salary with only a bachelors degree unless we're talking computer science/engineering most with only a bio degree see around 35K and lets not even get started on non STEM graduates who the overwhelming majority will leave undergrad with nearly or above six figure debt and have to compete for a job at AppleBee's.

Most of the physicians I know are healthy and happy with their lifestyle but miserable people and complainers exist in every profession and tax bracket....medicine is no different. Perhaps this just wasn't her life path, I do think its unfortunate that she found this out half way through, but this doesn't change the fact that at least 97% of med students get through it just fine year after year.

So, I don't think this has anything to do with medical school itself, the process is designed that you know what you're getting into and applicants should be investigative enough to find out for themselves before they sign up. I think its just that she discovered it wasn't for her....she's in a very small minority though but good for her.

You don't know the first thing about medical school. Why are you sharing your opinion about medical school, residency and being a physician with people who are actually doing it?

50k a year is gross underpayment for the education, the hours, the stress and the delayed gratification. Don't talk about what people are worth when you have no experience with it. Our time is worth much more than that of the average American. Such a stupid comparison.

You need to understand over memorize? How are you going to learn any of the information without memorization? Telling medical students and residents about medical school... You have a long way to go young padawan

 

[username456789]

No, I wasn't. That's your interpretation.

Maybe because you were one of the gunners at your top allo school?

Do you even read what you write?

This isn't open for interpretation. It's clear as day.

 

[wiggitywack12]

You don't know the first thing about medical school. Why are you sharing your opinion about medical school, residency and being a physician with people who are actually doing it?

You need to understand over memorize? How are you going to learn any of the information without memorization? You have a long way to go young padawan

Again. I said people who have done it say all types of things about what it will be like, how easy or hard clinical is compared to preclinical....and I think its what you make of it...???? Where in that post did I said that I said understanding is more important...I said that medical students said that. I've already said this.

Also talking to people about a scenario does give you a little bit of info, it will be filtered through their own opinions but I'm not going to be completely blind sided lol. Again if you'd taken two more seconds to read the responses I've already given you'd have seen where I'd already REITERATED for about the third time that I never said I knew these things, I said these things were told to me.

 

[Psai]

Again. I said people who have done it say all types of things about what it will be like, how easy or hard clinical is compared to preclinical....and I think its what you make of it...???? Where in that post did I said that I said understanding is more important...I said that medical students said that. I've already said this.

We don't need to hear that from you. We have first hand experience

 

[charmiedermie]

Do you even read what you write?

This isn't open for interpretation. It's clear as day.

You missed the key word - maybe. See his response before that. But please, go on.

 

[ASD2019]

1. Someone listed resident pay in a way that I interpreted as sort of critical or negative. Those comparisons were my personal rationalizations as to why in the bigger picture I didn't see it as a negative. The gov pays the residents and we're still not full attendings at that point, we still need training and supervision so I don't think its this big affront to the field of medicine that residents get paid what they do. This is my opinion, its personal.

2. Physicians work harder and they earn more. That's fair. A resident is not an attending physician.

lol a resident is indeed a physician. I never said anything about an attending. You personally can be ok with it, but there is no way you can justify physician pay (resident or attending for that matter). How is it justifiable for a resident who has 2x the # of yrs of schooling to get paid less than a nurse coming straight out of school?

As a college senior, earning $10/hr, 60k might seem like a lot of money. But when you are in your mid 30s, with a family, 150k of debt (and watching that 150 quickly turn into 200k), and you work 16/hrs a day to earn that, then you can decide whether you are ok with it or not.

 

[wiggitywack12]

We don't need to hear that from you. We have first hand experience

LOL. This is getting tiring. My initial post was in response to @fullmetal. I wasn't telling medical students about medical school. That doesn't even make any sense. I was listing things medical students say in defense of my theory that everyone has a different experience and its largely what you make of it.

 

[wiggitywack12]

lol a resident is indeed a physician. I never said anything about an attending. You personally can be ok with it, but there is no way you can justify physician pay (resident or attending for that matter). How is it justifiable for a resident who has 2x the # of yrs of schooling to get paid less than a nurse coming straight out of school?

As a college senior, earning $10/hr, 60k might seem like a lot of money. But when you are in your mid 30s, with a family, 150k of debt (and watching that 150 quickly turn into 200k), and you work 16/hrs a day to earn that, then you can decide whether you are ok with it or not.

1. What's to "laugh out loud" about? We both know that while residents have MD degree's there's still training left to do and they're not full attendings yet thus they don't get attending salary. Nothing hard to comprehend about that and nothing inaccurate in my previous post.

2. I'm not trying to "justify" resident salary, I said that I'm not enraged at it. There's nothing to justify, its already set in place and I signed up for the process what would be the point in this faux rage. Even if I arrive at an experience that seems worse in practice than it was in theory you stick to your commitment and get through it. Jumping down my e-throat over semantics is not going to make them pay more in residency. I'm sorry.

 

[Psai]

@fullmetal. I wasn't telling medical students about medical school. That doesn't even make any sense. I was listing things medical students say in defense of my theory that everyone has a different experience and its largely what you make of it.[/QUOTE]

Your theory is worthless because you don't know what it's like

 

[wiggitywack12]

Your theory is worthless because you don't know what it's like

Thanks for letting me know.

 

[username456789]

You missed the key word - maybe. See his response before that. But please, go on.

I didn't miss anything. And I've read every post on this thread, including his response before that. It changes nothing that I said.

You're going to fall and scrape your knee with all the backpedaling you're doing. But please, go on.

 

[BrooklynBulls]

I didn't miss anything. And I've read every post on this thread, including his response before that. It changes nothing that I said.

You're going to fall and scrape your knee with all the backpedaling you're doing. But please, go on.

I too love Dr. Katz.

 

[0ncogene]

Try this for your 1st anatomy exam and see what happens.

Med school is 10% about understanding fundamental concepts and 90% about memorizing factoids.

The understanding part is absolutely important, but its not what you'll be tested on come exam time.

90% memorization is not true. If you are memorizing 90% and understanding only 10% in med school, then you are most likely doing it wrong. Like every class you will have to memorize the basics, but understanding is an important and larger part when learning complex concepts that are built from the fundamentals.

 

[charmiedermie]

I didn't miss anything. And I've read every post on this thread, including his response before that. It changes nothing that I said.

You're going to fall and scrape your knee with all the backpedaling you're doing. But please, go on.

Adverbs make a difference in meaning, even if u skip them. I know exactly what I said and how it was misinterpreted after he immediately lashed out. Your/his misinterpretation doesn't change that and so no need for me to "backpedal".

 

[Donald Juan]

LOL. This is getting tiring. My initial post was in response to @fullmetal. I wasn't telling medical students about medical school. That doesn't even make any sense. I was listing things medical students say in defense of my theory that everyone has a different experience and its largely what you make of it.

I've looked back at your initial post, and the post you were responding to...you keep referencing that as if you weren't saying something that was off in the first place.

I said before, you started off with a good point and premed or not, it's true: med school is often what you make of it, as is being a physician.

Then you gave tips for memorization, and went off into compensation during residency and talked about how easy it is to moonlight and make six figures during residency. You further go on to say that it is a minority of applicants who feel the way the OP feels, but given the way physicians answer polls I would have to say it is not that small of a minority. The OP was just in the tiny minority that realized it while they were still in school and got out. While I have no doubt about my career choice, I understand how many people could feel this way (and will) despite being smart, hard working individuals that will thrive in other professions. Also, realize that as a resident, it's not just the fact that you might be accruing 20k a year of interest while making what equates to $10-12/hr with a professional degree, there is much more the the lifestyle of physicians that you clearly don't understand.

I hate to be the type of person who insinuates you shouldn't give input on this board because you're not a med student yet. Given your cockiness and stubbornness toward you're opinion derived off of anecdotes, I'm afraid you might be someone who doesn't share the same sentiment toward premeds in a year or two.

 

[username456789]

Adverbs make a difference in meaning, even if u skip them. I know exactly what I said and how it was misinterpreted after he immediately lashed out. Your/his misinterpretation doesn't change that and so no need for me to "backpedal".

Here you go, this will make it easier for you to keep digging yourself a deeper hole:

 

[ASD2019]

1. What's to "laugh out loud" about? We both know that while residents have MD degree's there's still training left to do and they're not full attendings yet thus they don't get attending salary. Nothing hard to comprehend about that and nothing inaccurate in my previous post.

2. I'm not trying to "justify" resident salary, I said that I'm not enraged at it. There's nothing to justify, its already set in place and I signed up for the process what would be the point in this faux rage. Even if I arrive at an experience that seems worse in practice than it was in theory you stick to your commitment and get through it. Jumping down my e-throat over semantics is not going to make them pay more in residency. I'm sorry.

It isn't about semantics. How you can be so naive about med school (as evidenced by your posts) and still try to discredit OP's story by saying "she is part of a small minority" is just incomprehensible. I think all of your posts are actually very beneficial for this thread. They are a direct evidence of the "tunnel vision" referenced by the OP.

 

[chizledfrmstone]

Hey @Mad Jack and @Donald Juan what signs should 1 look for as clues to the culture of a medical school in terms of competetiveness/gunner? What kind of questions should 1 ask and what sign should 1 look for?

Say something gunnerish. If people look at you like you're a d*ckhole then it's probably not a gunnerish environment.

It's not a DO or MD thing. Maybe it's more of a geographical thing.

I interviewed at a DO school in California that seemed pretty intense. Midwest was a bit more laid back.

90% memorization is not true. If you are memorizing 90% and understanding only 10% in med school, then you are most likely doing it wrong. Like every class you will have to memorize the basics, but understanding is an important and larger part when learning complex concepts that are built from the fundamentals.

Very true. I always try to understand rather than memorize.

I remember trying to explain the rational behind an equation to a fellow student. She didn't understand and just opted to memorize it. I'm pretty sure I remember the equations better than she does.