Should we be worried...ADA accreditation to international schools

[mass]

The quality of dental education in South Asia is great, but definitely not on par with US and UK. There aren't enough resources and facilities in South Asia.

the facilities are there in places like manipal and srmc.

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[Logjammin]

shut the **** up dude. In india they teach you and help you. In schools in us and uk its the usual ****e of learn yourself.

Huh? Get the corn cobs out your ears son! I said a "reputable source".

What you are saying makes no sense whatsoever, and you give no reasonable evidence to support your false claims. The only thing you can say to back up your garbage is "they teach you and help you." Is anybody suppose to take anything you say seriously??

 

[DSpagnoli]

shut the **** up dude. In india they teach you and help you. In schools in us and uk its the usual ****e of learn yourself.

I don't think you know what you are talking about.

 

[gyzeus]

I've recieved an email from the director of the accreditation department of ada saying that up to now there are no international programs that are accreditied by the commision yet. However, 5 schools are in the process of submitting an application for accreditation but it is unlikely that they will get approved before the end of this year.

Then what's article on that Mexico dental school?? I thought it was already accredited??
By the way, has anybody heard of the University of West Indies dental school?

 

[blissdental]

I've recieved an email from the director of the accreditation department of ada saying that up to now there are no international programs that are accreditied by the commision yet. However, 5 schools are in the process of submitting an application for accreditation but it is unlikely that they will get approved before the end of this year.

Great news!

 

[jaiceman]

The University of the West Indies, is indeed a Caribbean based dental school, however, they are not accredited by the ADA, they are under the British educational blueprint, and their student intend to stay in the islands. They chose the top crop of high school students after taking the british A-level examination, once again NO college needed. It is NOT, easy to get in (since its the only truly 'Caribbean dental school') and every high schooler is trying out for the yearly openings of 1 class; therefore its NOT a 'backdoor' to a US License, even though conceivable it could be if oen where to truly possess the maximus gunner gene mutation. I know they are bright students there, but finances of the indigenous population makes practicing any really high end stuff impractical as a standard experiential (I may be wrong about this to a degree, since its been a while). I think one of their students used to frequent these boards..however, he always came off sounding like a kiss *** type of guy though.

I've recieved an email from the director of the accreditation department of ada saying that up to now there are no international programs that are accreditied by the commision yet. However, 5 schools are in the process of submitting an application for accreditation but it is unlikely that they will get approved before the end of this year.

Then what's article on that Mexico dental school?? I thought it was already accredited??
By the way, has anybody heard of the University of West Indies dental school?

 

[gryffindor]

Nobody at any point has said anything about how will this benefit the foreign community of patients that there is in USA , foreign patients feel more comfortable explaining whatever problem they have in their native language to the dentist. Doesn't that sound like a good alternative for a patient????


Do you know of any career in the states that went down the drain for a similar reason?

If you go to an Indian, Korean, or Chinese ethnic community and open their local papers, you will find plenty of ads for dentists in there advertising "we speak your language." If you go to many Spanish speaking communities, you will find ads for dentists that "se habla espanol." The problem is not access in the ethnic communities, it is access in the remote areas where not many dentists want to live, such as remote areas of Alaska where the native populations live.

There has been plenty written about careers and businesses that are having a hard time due to the the cheap labor problem from illegal immigration. Some on here are arguing that if we open the doors to foreign accreditation, it will similarly drive down dental wages by having a population of dentists coming in who already have lower educational debt since tuition is not high in some of these countries compared to the US, and they will come here willing to work for less.

 

[blissdental]

Nobody at any point has said anything about how will this benefit the foreign community of patients that there is in USA , foreign patients feel more comfortable explaining whatever problem they have in their native language to the dentist. Doesn't that sound like a good alternative for a patient????


Do you know of any career in the states that went down the drain for a similar reason?

The ADA the institution that brought dentistry in US to where it is now , wouldn't make that sort of decision just to put in jeopardy our profession.

You're right in that dentists should consider the benifits and rights of the patient. But if communication is the main problem, don't you think employing a bilingual dental assistant and receptionist would be a better option than accreditation of foreign dental schools?
Saturation doesn't seem like it will benifit neither the dentists nor the patients.


And yes, I actually can think of a number of careers that have been heavily impacted due to a totally open market and competition.
One example would be the CPAs that are now groaning after getting so many of their job opportunities taken away by CPAs in foreign countries where there is cheap labor or a great difference in exhange rates. The only difference with dentistry is that the foreigns CPAs don't actually have to come to the US to do the work, nevertheless causing saturation and high competition.

You were right on ADA and I hope the association continues to stand and work for it's members.

 

[blissdental]

There has been plenty written about careers and businesses that are having a hard time due to the the cheap labor problem from illegal immigration. Some on here are arguing that if we open the doors to foreign accreditation, it will similarly drive down dental wages by having a population of dentists coming in who already have lower educational debt since tuition is not high in some of these countries compared to the US, and they will come here willing to work for less.

This is exactly what I mean.

So it's only natural that we oppose, especially after investing all that money and time to become a dentist. These kinds of professional careers are not like other jobs like say opening a dohunt shop which just about anybody could do without going through years of school and training.

 

[bass for less]

All of us who believe that the accreditation is a serious matter and should be opposed should unite and voice to ADA and perhaps more importantly, the legislators. If anything, the US politics shows us that getting involved is the only way to have our voice heard, and that means we need to fax the legislators, write to the editors, tell the ADA...etc, and pressure them if necessary, of what the real picture is. We are all stakeholders and unless we stand together, we have no power.

 

[NileBDS]

why cant india dental schools be accredited anyway, the quality of teaching there is higher than in us.

Interesting. I am in a foreign trained program, and several of my classmates received their previous dental training in India. I can personally attest to the inaccuracy of your statement. Not all schools in India are bad, but in no way can you compare them with the caliber of US dental schools, let alone ADA accreditation status. That would just flat out be a joke. The same goes for Egypt, where I went to school myself.

By making inflammatory statements as such, you are hurting, not helping, your cause.

 

[zabolekar]

Although I forshadowed this a long time ago Im sorry to reveal my ignorance by asking whether this accreditation is EXACT equivalent of a US school accreditation, since after all, graduates are still "foreign-trained" and therefore must complete a 2-year program to get California/US licensure (which is itself limited to few schools and few students). If graduates still need the 2 year program, then we have nothing to worry about as the number of foreign dentists will not increase.

In case the accreditation is the same, then the competition may be rectified by requiring a 1-year general residency where only a few spots are allowed for foreign dentists.

Dont get me wrong, this country has attracted talented, top dental material from around the world to work here; but if accreditation is given, then the quality of foreign dentists will also decline since they wont have to "overcompete" over US predents. Also as someone said, it is ridiculous to let people who got "easy" degrees 6 yrs after high school get the same licensure US students have worked 8+ years for, under much more grueling conditions.

 

[zabolekar]

BTW I came to this country and worked my a#$ off through tough undergrad and then D school and ortho residency and yet know many dentists who ~15 years ago came here and were given california license by examination. Their alma maters were famous for parties, grade inflation, and are a joke when compared in rigor to schools here. That doesnt mean there bad dentists, though because they focused only on technique and no theory/very little science.

 

[mass]

I've recieved an email from the director of the accreditation department of ada saying that up to now there are no international programs that are accreditied by the commision yet. However, 5 schools are in the process of submitting an application for accreditation but it is unlikely that they will get approved before the end of this year.
Then what's article on that Mexico dental school?? I thought it was already accredited??
By the way, has anybody heard of the University of West Indies dental school?

did you enquire when it may occur though?

 

[Logjammin]

did you enquire when it may occur though?

Once again, the communication process has been broken down.

It boggles my mind that you continue to ask this question.

 

[Aceofspades]

It seems the accreditation of foreign schools to drive down prices (for the general population) is inevitable. The foreign schools may not receive accreditation this year, but the debate is far from over. The outsourcing trend has been occurring in many markets, but I always thought service (yes, dentistry is a service as opposed to product) jobs could not possibly be outsourced. Well, I guess I wasn't thinking creatively enough.

In addition, India has well over a billion people. Billion with a B! If even a fraction of Indian dentists come over I can imagine the US dentistry market being flooded, as it's population cannot match that of India. In addition, new grad Indian dentists will have a huge incentive to come to America to practice, and they will be younger and more debt and obligation free. They may or may not be willing to work for lower wages, though I suspect they will, but there mere saturation of dentists will lead to decreased wages across the board. To exacerbate the situation, I suspect dental school prices will continue to rise faster than the rate of inflation, irrespective to the possible decline in dental salaries.

And as many people pointed out, this will not solve the underserved dental areas. Maybe we will see US high school grads traveling to India for dental school and coming back to the US to practice.

 

[FMrehab]

To me it seems that this all comes down to the issue of competence. We go through at least 8 years of training here and all of us will have a strong background in the sciences. A Doctor must have that knowledge, if you you don't have it then you're basically a lab tech. The schools here also teach, by and large, the latest techniques with the latest materials derived from evidence based research. If any school outside this country meets or exceeds the quality of our home grown dentists then they should be allowed to come here if they choose. I dont think that this is remotely the case in most of the world. At the end of the day a patient deserves the best doctor that they can get.

 

[reapply2007]

University of West Indies in not in India or Asia generally. It is in Trinidad, just off the coast of Venezuela. Presently it's 84F and the diving is fantastic.

http://sta.uwi.edu/fms/

The only functioning DDS link on the site is -
http://sta.uwi.edu/fms/doc/DDSTimetable.pdf

 

[mass]

Once again, the communication process has been broken down.

It boggles my mind that you continue to ask this question.

it boggles me that we carry on debating/having arguemnts over an issue which hasn't even been confirmed yet. The dollar rate is the same/nearing the same as india rupee so whats to say people will want to come to us in the future.

 

[blissdental]

it boggles me that we carry on debating/having arguemnts over an issue which hasn't even been confirmed yet. The dollar rate is the same/nearing the same as india rupee so whats to say people will want to come to us in the future.

I disagree with you on this part. By the time accreditation is confirmed and it's all over, there wouldn't anything left for us to debate about.
I've heard from Indian international students that there actually is a difference in dollar rate and indian currency so their parents back in India have a hard time supporting them. And if the money rate is the same, why would so many jobs like CPAs and credit card phone operators and so on be moving out to India?

 

[blissdental]

In case the accreditation is the same, then the competition may be rectified by requiring a 1-year general residency where only a few spots are allowed for foreign dentists.

Dont get me wrong, this country has attracted talented, top dental material from around the world to work here; but if accreditation is given, then the quality of foreign dentists will also decline since they wont have to "overcompete" over US predents. Also as someone said, it is ridiculous to let people who got "easy" degrees 6 yrs after high school get the same licensure US students have worked 8+ years for, under much more grueling conditions.

Yes, and I think we should ask the ada on what "accreditation", exactly means here and what the requirements for foreign grads would be to practice in the US. Like you've mentioned, if residency is required that would definitely be able to limit the numbers.

And personally, I don't see myself as being greedy or find anything wrong with going against accreditation because actually alot of countries out there and the dental or medical associations in those countries are strongly against an open market and are making sure that doors don't open. If you just read through the criterias it may seem like just about anybody could go in and practice if they just pass an exam, but if you go in a step further you'll start to see the barriors such as interviews or residency requirements that make it practically impossible for most of them to come in.

 

[blissdental]

All of us who believe that the accreditation is a serious matter and should be opposed should unite and voice to ADA and perhaps more importantly, the legislators. If anything, the US politics shows us that getting involved is the only way to have our voice heard, and that means we need to fax the legislators, write to the editors, tell the ADA...etc, and pressure them if necessary, of what the real picture is. We are all stakeholders and unless we stand together, we have no power.

As yet a D0, I'm not sure how influential I'd be but am ready to chip in.
I've already called and emailed the ADA about accreditation and will be emailing again to ask:

-Approximately when the confirmations of accreditation will be made
-The chances of accreditation
-What the requirements of those foreign grads from those accredited school will be in order to practice in the US
-What the current ratio of dentist to population is
-What the ratio is estimated to be in 10, 20 years (considering accreditation of those schools and new schools in US)


I'd say even if it's the same or similar questions, calling, sending mails or emails to the accreditation department in ADA could show them that we are intrested.
Does anybody else have any other suggestions?
Do you suggest we start with the Cali legislatures?
And any ideas on how to contact editors?


I'm sure that if we start putting our thoughts into action, it will have some kind of an influence on the ADA and the legislatures. Say, even if accreditation is made on one or two of the schools, if the oppostion is strong, the legislatures may think twice the next time they make a decision.

 

[Regmata]

Why don't you start with your local dental society. There you will be able to contact actual dentists who are involved in the ADA as well as their state dental association and likely other organizations. They will be able to better inform you of the situation, share their opinion and guide you in the right direction. It has been my experience that they are often excited to meet and help aspiring dentists, especially those who are proactive and will likely someday become involved in their organization. You can also try ASDA.

 

[blissdental]

Why don't you start with your local dental society. There you will be able to contact actual dentists who are involved in the ADA as well as their state dental association and likely other organizations. They will be able to better inform you of the situation, share their opinion and guide you in the right direction. It has been my experience that they are often excited to meet and help aspiring dentists, especially those who are proactive and will likely someday become involved in their organization. You can also try ASDA.

Thanks so much!
Sounds like a great idea

 

[mass]

Why don't you start with your local dental society. There you will be able to contact actual dentists who are involved in the ADA as well as their state dental association and likely other organizations. They will be able to better inform you of the situation, share their opinion and guide you in the right direction. It has been my experience that they are often excited to meet and help aspiring dentists, especially those who are proactive and will likely someday become involved in their organization. You can also try ASDA.

good idea. A bit of point but anyone know where I can start a thread about india teaching style vs Western style teaching. I have got some interesting viewpoints.

 

[bass for less]

As yet a D0, I'm not sure how influential I'd be but am ready to chip in.
I've already called and emailed the ADA about accreditation and will be emailing again to ask:

-Approximately when the confirmations of accreditation will be made
-The chances of accreditation
-What the requirements of those foreign grads from those accredited school will be in order to practice in the US
-What the current ratio of dentist to population is
-What the ratio is estimated to be in 10, 20 years (considering accreditation of those schools and new schools in US)


I'd say even if it's the same or similar questions, calling, sending mails or emails to the accreditation department in ADA could show them that we are intrested.
Does anybody else have any other suggestions?
Do you suggest we start with the Cali legislatures?
And any ideas on how to contact editors?


I'm sure that if we start putting our thoughts into action, it will have some kind of an influence on the ADA and the legislatures. Say, even if accreditation is made on one or two of the schools, if the oppostion is strong, the legislatures may think twice the next time they make a decision.

Bliss, please tell us what you find out from ADA. I wish they respond to your letter. Regmata has a good point, too. I'd say bring this to the dental student society's attention too.

Politically, our cohesiveness together on this issue would mean that we reward those who defend our rights by voting them and give financial support; and penalize those who believe the mal-distribution of health care can be solved simply by accrediting foreign schools, yet not willing to invest in domestic education and improve the health insurance system. Other national/state organizations such as the Teacher's Association and Firefighter Association do a pretty good job on this to protect their rights.

Writing to editors means we educate and explain to the public of what dentists are doing to care for everyone's mouth. A while ago NY Times wrote an article portraying dentists as a group of social aristocrats ripping profit north and south, while the poor suffers from no access to care. I was encouraged by how some people wrote back to the editor and rebutted by giving real examples of how dentists volunteered their time and helped to cover for the government's shorts. Unless we keep up efforts like this, public will just take in the biased news and reports and siege us with what we don't want to see. Alaska and accreditation are just examples.

If we make no stand, we become cooked ducks.

 

[tamkhan]

it boggles me that we carry on debating/having arguemnts over an issue which hasn't even been confirmed yet. The dollar rate is the same/nearing the same as india rupee so whats to say people will want to come to us in the future.

You are both right, and wrong, in this post. Yes, India has a burgeoning economy, and many Indian professionals have refused a US citizenship simply because they feel like India has a better potential. But, this really only applies to jobs in the IT sector. In health care, I find it hard to believe that anyone would move to India, irrespective of whether the Indian Rupee is sky rocketing or not. There are lots of other things that people consider, apart from monetary benefits. If you consider Dubai (which in my opinion, is the next medical powerhouse), a North American graduate can earn twice or thrice as much as he/she would earn here. Yet, people prefer to stay in the US or Canada. They all have their own reasons.

 

[blissdental]

To speak of the social and economical status of dentists in Japan and Korea as a Korean/Japanese
In Korea where dentists are one of the most popular and highest paid jobs(average reported income being around $8,4000 but the real average no less than $250,000 which is almost 6 times higher than the average national income $43,200), many people are willing to pay for cosmetic dentistry which is not a whole lot cheaper than the U.S. Most of the non-cosmetic procedures are covered by the national health insurance but the patient still has to pay a high portion of the additional cost that is not covered by this insurance which is still affordable than in the US
Nowadays only students that can't make it into dental school go to med school and almost every mom wants their daughter to get married to a dentist.. There's even a joke (but not really a joke in many cases) that to get married to a dentist, you have to bring 3 keys; a car key, a house key, and a dental office key.. (which is no surprise since everybody in Korea knows that dentists make huge money) Dentistry is treated like one of the most popular specialties in medicine along with plastic surgery and derm and even the president of the national health insurance is a dentist and not a physician..
And this prosperity of dentistry should no doubtly be contributed to the Korean Dental Association who have such great lobiest.. Currently they have pressured legislatures to change the health law and now they have made it practically impossible for any foreign grad to practice in Korea.. They had even stated out-front that the reason for this regulation is to prevent saturation and protect their dentists, along with the purpose of rechecking the qualities of the foreign dentists that plan to practice in Korea. The KDA is also working on to reduce the number of seats in dental schools from the next few years since there could be a saturation by the year 2020 if the grad rate is continued at this level. And yes there is also a deficiency of dentists in rural areas but a dental office is not the only things they don't have in those areas so those people drive out about 30 minutes to the city 4-5 times a year which isn't all that hard. And in addition, there are plenty of millitary dentists that could provide public dentistry in those rural area since 3 years of millitary is madatory for all Korean males. So like someone had mentioned before, a mandatory GPR in rural areas could help resolve the problem.

But in contrast, I guess the Japanese Dental Association seemed to have poor lobiest because they weren't powerful enough to prevent the legislature from establishing too many dental schools and causing saturation.(which was possible since it cost alot less of gov funds to establish a dental school since it costs less in Japan and also Korea since they spend alot less money and time on clinical when compared to the US) Although the prices of commodity is 2 times higher in Japan compared to Korea (and also the US), the average income for dentists in both countries is about the same. Dentistry which once used to be one of the best job along with medicine is no longer holds this status and just about anybody who could afford the tuition can get into dental school.

So my whole point in this long thread is that we should get more involved and send mails or emails to share our opinions with the ADA regularly since the fate of US dentistry lies heavily on this association.
And for the response from ADA, I wasn't able to get a response yet, but will make sure to do so when I get it.

 

[voryue]

We need some links to the people we should contact and voice our concerns. It would be nice to have a list of emails of key people in the ADA and local and state dental associations. How can we let more dental students around the country know what is happening to our profession. We need to stop this leak before it becomes a flood....

 

[blissdental]

We need some links to the people we should contact and voice our concerns. It would be nice to have a list of emails of key people in the ADA and local and state dental associations. How can we let more dental students around the country know what is happening to our profession. We need to stop this leak before it becomes a flood....

You could call ADA and ask for the accreditation department and they will give you the number and the email address of the director. And as Regmata had mentioned starting with local dental communities and associations could be a good way to start.
I'm thinking that the main point we should be delivering is the fact that we don't have an overall shortage of dentist but it is just the distribution that is causing all these problems. I'm assuming even foreign accreditation is related to this shortage problem since they think that would get more dentists into the US and solve the problem of dental shortage in the rural areas. Well, how could they guarantee that most of those foreign grads will head to the rural areas? Like some of the countries that make millitary mandatory which takes cares of the rural shortage problem since a portion of the dentists serve within the army while the rest are distributed to rural public organizations and hospitals, we should suggest a year of mandatory residency for all the dental students. I'm not sure of how everybody else feels about this but I am more than willing to do a year of residency in a rural area if that could help prevent saturation of dentists.

 

[mass]

The starting point should be to contact the ADA.

 

[Dr. Ace]

Hi everyone,

For the record, I am foreign trained dentist. I graduated from dental school in India in 2003. I subsequently went through the rigirous process of flying all the way to the US 2 times-for taking the National Boards-I and II, applying to multiple schools(Cost me a lot of money) and then had to come over again for the interviews.(Lot of money again).

All these efforts were totally worth it when I was accepted into the Advanced Standing Program at Penn in Philadelphia. I went through the junior and senior years, just like the 4 year students-took each didactic class and text with them, completed all the restorative,perio,endo and other requirements,just like the 4 year students, took and passed the NERBS, just like the 4 year students. I worked for a year and a half with my dad who is a dentist in India.Even then, I applied for and am in a GPR because I thought that I need more training ina institute to master what I was taught in the 2 years at Penn.

I feel it is totally unfair to foreign dentists like me, more than the 4 year students, if now a few foreign dental schools are accreditated by either one or more state boards or even the ADA itself.

I got a very good training in the dental school in India. How ever, the training I received at Penn was TOTALLY different from what I received back home. I am a strong believer that any one who is eligible to be licensed in this country sould HAVE to go through at least 2 years of schooling here in the US.

Amen!

Not only do I also second this, but I also feel that foreign trained dentists should have at least their bachelors from a U.S. 4 year University. Take me for example, I am a US citizen, born and raised, bilingual, and earned my BS in Human Biology... but when the time came to apply for dental schools, I was denied many times. I had a good GPA, a significant amount of community hours, already working as a dental assistant for 5 years at the time, great recommendation letters from high sources, okay on my DAT's, but due to rejection, I decided to apply to a foreign dental school. US dental schools are all politics. I applied for 2 years and couldnt get in! What the hell was up with that? I am 29 going on 30 and trying to head back home to the states and it is almost impossible because of all the competition that I have going against me. People ask me, why didnt you just keep reapplying while I was in the states? I didnt want to waste any more time, thats why! MAybe it was ridiculous of me to leave the US but what other choice did I have? I know that this is what I wanted to do as a career but the good ol US dental schools didnt give me the chance to prove to them that I could have been a superb dentist. I read on here that by opening accredited international dental schools, graduating dentists would be of the age 22...that certainly is not my case at all. I would have loved to have enrolled in a foreign accredited dental school after having earned my BS so that it would have been of equal equivalance with students in the US. I dont know about having dentists working on me that are barely 22 years of age. thats actually kinda frightening if u ask me! But in any case, I feel that the dental schools that are or will be accredited outside the US should maybe have these schools up and running and accredited for students that have educational equivalance as those students that would apply within the US. The only difference and advantage of enrolling internationally would be speaking in more than one language and so once they are done, they will be able to communicate better with their patients. I know that moving into a different country has its difficulty especially when you do not know anyone and are not able to speak fluently at first. I feel that the students enrolling into these accredited or soon to be accredited programs should have at least some sort of 4 yr predental equivalance. That's just my opinion though. ****, look at me, I still have to go thru another 2 or 3 or even 4 years before i can even start working in the US with a dental license and that's if any of the schools in the US want to take me into a 2 yr advanced standing program. I might as well as studied medicine and became a surgeon!! LOL! Anyways, I feel that everything has a reason so maybe there is a reason behind to all of this. We don't know for sure why the ADA is doing this but maybe they have a good reason. Not everyone will be for it and not everyone will be against it. Only time will tell.

 

[scandalouslj]

I have a friend that goes to Manipal. And unfortunately as much as we are trying to not, we are just following the medical professions footsteps in everyway. Techs can now practice in Alaska, they will practice for a few years, and then every other state is going to point out how it is working there and should work here. Just like NP's, PA's. etc in the medical profession. My friend is actually, a US born citizen. Partied his butt off in undergrad, failed out, went to community college, and applied to dental schools for 2 years without getting in. Decided to go to Manipal with the hope of it either being accredited by the time he graduates, or entering an advanced standing class somewhere in the US. AKA equivalent to the Carribean med schools for medicine. I think that is freaking ridiculous, there are all these carribean med schools that are horrible, I know of ones you dont even have to take the MCAT to get in as long as you have the money your in ( I dont want to bash all of them, because there are a few good ones with some very smart people)! And this specific school does not let their students dissect cadavers because it is illegal on the island. How do you become a doctor without dissecting a cadaver? Of course the balancing line is that they have to pass the boards, and do residency's. But still do we want the same thing to happen in dentistry? A bunch of kids that party to hard to get in here, then go to a foreign country and all they have to do is take the boards to start practicing, which we pretty much all know is a crapshoot half the times anyways? And why is California opening it up to everyone, from every source I have ever heard California is already oversaturated with dentists, and if you want more than why not open it up to people that took the Nerbs, Serta, etc first? We cant get one national board, but they will accept schools from foreign countries?

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

How do you become a doctor without dissecting a cadaver? Of course the balancing line is that they have to pass the boards, and do residency's.

This is just a side comment, but there are quite a few med schools in the US now that don't require or some that don't even offer disection anymore. many learn from either pre prosected specimens or from models.

FYI

But I agree that disection should continue to be a vital part of medical and dental education.

 

[scandalouslj]

True I did forget about that, and I am fine with a pre-dissected cadaver as I probably learned 95% of dissection not while I was dissecting, but 2 days before the test when everything was dissected. BUT this school did not have pre-dissected cadavers either because cadavers were illegal on the island, and maybe its just me but Im still leary about plastic models, but then again iI guess thats how we learn our tooth anatomy and pretty much everything else, so I guess that part is ok.

 

[mass]

I have a friend that goes to Manipal. And unfortunately as much as we are trying to not, we are just following the medical professions footsteps in everyway. Techs can now practice in Alaska, they will practice for a few years, and then every other state is going to point out how it is working there and should work here. Just like NP's, PA's. etc in the medical profession. My friend is actually, a US born citizen. Partied his butt off in undergrad, failed out, went to community college, and applied to dental schools for 2 years without getting in. Decided to go to Manipal with the hope of it either being accredited by the time he graduates, or entering an advanced standing class somewhere in the US. AKA equivalent to the Carribean med schools for medicine. I think that is freaking ridiculous, there are all these carribean med schools that are horrible, I know of ones you dont even have to take the MCAT to get in as long as you have the money your in ( I dont want to bash all of them, because there are a few good ones with some very smart people)! And this specific school does not let their students dissect cadavers because it is illegal on the island. How do you become a doctor without dissecting a cadaver? Of course the balancing line is that they have to pass the boards, and do residency's. But still do we want the same thing to happen in dentistry? A bunch of kids that party to hard to get in here, then go to a foreign country and all they have to do is take the boards to start practicing, which we pretty much all know is a crapshoot half the times anyways? And why is California opening it up to everyone, from every source I have ever heard California is already oversaturated with dentists, and if you want more than why not open it up to people that took the Nerbs, Serta, etc first? We cant get one national board, but they will accept schools from foreign countries?

hows he finding manipal

 

[golfer]

Not only do I also second this, but I also feel that foreign trained dentists should have at least their bachelors from a U.S. 4 year University. Take me for example, I am a US citizen, born and raised, bilingual, and earned my BS in Human Biology... but when the time came to apply for dental schools, I was denied many times. I had a good GPA, a significant amount of community hours, already working as a dental assistant for 5 years at the time, great recommendation letters from high sources, okay on my DAT's, but due to rejection, I decided to apply to a foreign dental school. US dental schools are all politics. I applied for 2 years and couldnt get in! What the hell was up with that? I am 29 going on 30 and trying to head back home to the states and it is almost impossible because of all the competition that I have going against me. People ask me, why didnt you just keep reapplying while I was in the states? I didnt want to waste any more time, thats why! MAybe it was ridiculous of me to leave the US but what other choice did I have? I know that this is what I wanted to do as a career but the good ol US dental schools didnt give me the chance to prove to them that I could have been a superb dentist. I read on here that by opening accredited international dental schools, graduating dentists would be of the age 22...that certainly is not my case at all. I would have loved to have enrolled in a foreign accredited dental school after having earned my BS so that it would have been of equal equivalance with students in the US. I dont know about having dentists working on me that are barely 22 years of age. thats actually kinda frightening if u ask me! But in any case, I feel that the dental schools that are or will be accredited outside the US should maybe have these schools up and running and accredited for students that have educational equivalance as those students that would apply within the US. The only difference and advantage of enrolling internationally would be speaking in more than one language and so once they are done, they will be able to communicate better with their patients. I know that moving into a different country has its difficulty especially when you do not know anyone and are not able to speak fluently at first. I feel that the students enrolling into these accredited or soon to be accredited programs should have at least some sort of 4 yr predental equivalance. That's just my opinion though. ****, look at me, I still have to go thru another 2 or 3 or even 4 years before i can even start working in the US with a dental license and that's if any of the schools in the US want to take me into a 2 yr advanced standing program. I might as well as studied medicine and became a surgeon!! LOL! Anyways, I feel that everything has a reason so maybe there is a reason behind to all of this. We don't know for sure why the ADA is doing this but maybe they have a good reason. Not everyone will be for it and not everyone will be against it. Only time will tell.

POLITICS? Sounds like you may by fishing for a reason. To place the blame of you not getting in on the politics of ds to me seems naive.
Most of the adcoms are pretty transparent about their criteria for choosing students. So, if you didn't get in there probably was a reason.
My brother was finally accepted after his third time applying. I seriously doubt you had a better GPA and DAT score than he did. He took the DAT 3 times and on the third try raised his TS by 5 points AA by 2.

 

[cel083]

I doubt students here would be able to enroll abroad in those schools..
Those dental schools in other countries have different requirements than those here in the US..
Unless you speak, read and write in spanish and Indian very fluently and become well prepared for the dental admissions exam in those countries and pass the interview process, it will be pretty tough to get into those dental schools..
Some phillipine dental schools are really easy to get into.. but not all dentals schools abroad are like these phillipine and carribean schools that are really easy to get into..

And in other Philippine dental schools, it is a one shot deal---if you have previously applied to dental school and are not accepted (University of the Philippines), you will not be allowed to apply again. I am the son of a lawful Philippine immigrant and licensed physician here in Texas (practicing something on the order of 30 years in the U.S., starting in MD), born and reared here, and I am sure glad that U.S. dental schools give more opportunities to apply (I think the max. is 3 attempts/school?) and that there are more schools on this side of the Pacific than on that side.