Should I take a Gap Year (2ish years) or go to D.O school?

[mary3x]

x

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Benjoe11]

Yet, I'm afraid of just getting "older" (Melisandre lol) as all my friends start their amazing careers.

Woa, spoilers!

 

[eteshoe]

Two years won't kill you if you choose to take that route.

 

[Petrichor1]

If you are not super confident about the DO route, just hold back. Your doubt and unwillingness to embrace DO methods may make your journey sour if you go that route. But I have to ask you, wouldn't you apply DO anyways your second cycle to prevent what happened to you this year? And as for the stigma attached to it, that is a cop out from what is really bothering you. Remember that an institute does not make the student. In fact, in many cases allopathics are recognized for attracting higher stat students and I wouldn't give the school credit onto residency match success. That is really your own hard work. You will thrive however depending on the environment you are in. There are many really good DO programs right now opening up where the faculty is really caring and passionate. Ignoring mcat and all that jazz aside, I myself am seriously considering applying to them over many established institutes. Maybe if your decision is primarily stemming from your friends being relatively well off, maybe converse less or disconnect from the FB/twitter life a bit (atleast up till the time when you are ready to apply and have gotten admission). 2 years are not bad at all but can be living stress times if you don't have anything planned. You cannot just waste time doing free research or free anything for a long time so perhaps think a little bit about that.

 

[Crayola227]

couldn't it just have been the MCAT and not your ethnicity?

 

[mary3x]

I said both, but look at the AMCAS percentages. Asians are at a disadvantage compared to every other race

 

[baratheonfire]

couldn't it just have been the MCAT and not your ethnicity?

Please don't be obtuse. Of course his MCAT is low; but you're lying to yourself and others if you believe his ethnicity played no part.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Please don't be obtuse. Of course his MCAT is low; but you're lying to yourself and others if you believe his ethnicity played no part.

Don't be obtuse... Your kidding yourself if you think he/she had less of chance than any other ORM due to being Indian.

about finding a residency as a DO and the obvious stigma associated with it

You will get a residency as a DO. The stigma only exists in the minds of pre-meds. Your future peers (i.e. Other doctors) couldn't give a rats fart what your degree is as long as you are a good doctor and don't mess up their patients. (Direct quote from a family friend/ivory tower MD type)

That being said depending on your career goals and how well you feel you can increase your MCAT I would suggest doing the gap year and applying broadly to MD and DO next year. If you want to pursue academic medicine or a surgical sub specialty/Derm/other competative specialties then I would try and retake and do what I said above with applying broadly

 

[efle]

The stigma only exists in the minds of pre-meds

Yes, it's so limited to premeds that some residencies outright exclude DO applicants from consideration...

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Yes, it's so limited to premeds that some residencies outright exclude DO applicants from consideration...

I took "Stigma" to imply a lesser physician, which most MDs will tell you is not the case. The only people who look down in this manner on DOs or people who go DO are mainly pre-meds and the occasional old school doc who equate DO to a bone witch doctor. Being a good doctor has nothing to do with which degree you have, and almost all practicing physicians get that.

You will never see me claim there isn't a bias or that obtaining some residencies or specialties is extremely difficult (or essentially impossible for some)

please for the love of all that is holy let us not even look at that rabbit hole again for the billionth time

 

[efle]

Being a good doctor has nothing to do with which degree you have, and almost all practicing physicians get that.

You don't see a contradiction between only the occasional old school doc being prejudiced, and many selective residencies remaining entirely closed to DOs?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

You don't see a contradiction between only the occasional old school doc being prejudiced, and many selective residencies remaining entirely closed to DOs?

Once again I am not talking about residencies I am talking about the many, many years after residency when one is a practicing physician. And seeing as the number of PDs who close off to DOs is an exceptionally small fraction of practicing physicians my statement is completely valid.

I never said that there isn't a bias when it comes to residencies. I was talking specifically about the stigma implication that DOs are lesser physicians. A stigma hints at a longitudinal idea of inferiority. This idea is basically relegated to pre-meds.

 

[baratheonfire]

Don't be obtuse... Your kidding yourself if you think he/she had less of chance than any other ORM due to being Indian.

Very important qualifier.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Very important qualifier.

I have no idea what your argument is. His/her ethnicity is not why they didn't get accepted to medical school.

 

[baratheonfire]

I have no idea what your argument is. His/her ethnicity is not why they didn't get accepted to medical school.

It is at least partially why. If he was a URM with the same stats he'd likely have been accepted. Asian applicants have a 52% acceptance rate with his stats, while African Americans with those stats have a 92% acceptance rate.

Do you genuinely believe that it's justified to force people to compete only against members of their own race rather than allowing them to compete with members of all races?

 

[Petrichor1]

It is at least partially why. If he was a URM with the same stats he'd likely have been accepted. Asian applicants have a 52% acceptance rate with his stats, while African Americans with those stats have a 92% acceptance rate.

Do you genuinely believe that it's justified to force people to compete only against members of their own race rather than allowing them to compete with members of all races?

Just to interrupt, I think yes, because we should be shifting towards socioeconomic status and judge people on those hardships. There are plenty of ppl I know of minority origin that are well off and therefore should be treated equally.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

It is at least partially why. If he was a URM with the same stats he'd likely have been accepted. Asian applicants have a 52% acceptance rate with his stats, while African Americans with those stats have a 92% acceptance rate.

Do you genuinely believe that it's justified to force people to compete only against members of their own race rather than allowing them to compete with members of all races?

No it's not. The bar is lowered for URM applicants because well you know, they are uh underrepresented (meaning we need more of them)... The bar is not raised for ORMs, it just isn't lowered.

And yes it absolutely is justified. We need more physicians of the ethnicities that are considered underrepresented...

In one thread we have now touched on two of the SDN classics...

 

[Dr.Sticks]

No it's not. The bar is lowered for URM applicants because well you know, they are uh underrepresented (meaning we need more of them)... The bar is not raised for ORMs, it just isn't lowered.

And yes it absolutely is justified. We need more physicians of the ethnicities that are considered underrepresented...

In one thread we have now touched on two of the SDN classics...

I thought we were all one race, the human race.
So what's with this urm, and orm stuff?

 

[baratheonfire]

Just to interrupt, I think yes, because we should be shifting towards socioeconomic status and judge people on those hardships only. There are plenty of ppl I know of minority origin that are well off and therefore should be treated equally.

We're in agreement.

No it's not. The bar is lowered for URM applicants because well you know, they are uh underrepresented (meaning we need more of them)... The bar is not raised for ORMs, it just isn't lowered.

And yes it absolutely is justified. We need more physicians of the ethnicities that are considered underrepresented...

In one thread we have now touched on two of the SDN classics...

Raising and lowering bars based on race? Holy ****. I literally cannot argue with this level of racism.

I thought we were all one race, the human race.
So what's with this urm, and orm stuff?

Yeah dude. It's baffling how people can advocate for an actively racially biased system and claim that it's in favor of racial equality. Martin Luther King dreamed that one day people would be judged not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. I doubt even he would be okay with this.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Now I'm racist because I said we need more doctors that are from minorities? Against who? Your comments are fantastical and intended to incite a flame war. They also represent someone who needs to desperately take some general sociology...

Holy ****. I literally cannot argue with this level of racism.

 

[efle]

And seeing as the number of PDs who close off to DOs is an exceptionally small fraction of practicing physicians my statement is completely valid.

That line of reasoning actually isn't valid. Look:

"I asked 150 physicians if they think DO is inferior to MD. 75 said yes. Since I only asked 150 physicians, a negligibly small population, DO stigma is not widespread."

See what I mean? Many residencies shutting the doors entirely to DO applicants does reflect a prejudice, and you really don't have evidence to say the prejudice is limited to PDs. I personally think it can be largely unfounded, since some DO schools are on par with some MD schools, and I imagine the impending merger is going to help as well. But at the moment, it is not just a handful of ancient docs that view DO differently.

Martin Luther King dreamed that one day people would be judged not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.

The argument for URM special consideration isn't for the benefit of URM applicants, but for the benefit of patients, which studies have shown are better served by same-race docs. Medical admissions isn't about character judgement, but about providing physicians to the nation.

 

[baratheonfire]

Now I'm racist because I said we need more doctors that are from minorities? Against who? Your comments are fantastical and intended to incite a flame war. They also represent someone who needs to desperately take some general sociology...

No, you're racist because you advocate lowering admissions standards for people based purely on race. Human beings should be judged on their merits, not their race. Race should not be considered at all.

Anyway, that's all I have to say on the matter. I'd like to avoid being banned as much as possible, since I actually get some good info from this site.

 

[efle]

Human beings should be judged on their merits, not their race. Race should not be considered at all.

Let me say again: medical admissions is influenced by what best serves the patient populations, not just the merits of an applicant.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

No, you're racist because you advocate lowering admissions standards for people based on race. Human beings should be judged on their merits, not their race. Race should not be considered at all.

Anyway, that's all I have to say on the matter. I'd like to avoid being banned as much as possible, since I actually get some good info from this site.

Take a sociology class. Like really truly. I agree with the bolded but that just isn't feasible or even possible in our world, it is a fantastical view that involves covering ones ears to the realities of today. I'm going to quote @efle because he put it rather nicely:

The argument for URM special consideration isn't for the benefit of URM applicants, but for the benefit of patients, which studies have shown are better served by same-race docs. Medical admissions isn't about character judgement, but about providing physicians to the nation.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

That line of reasoning actually isn't valid. Look:

"I asked 150 physicians if they think DO is inferior to MD. 75 said yes. Since I only asked 150 physicians, a negligibly small population, DO stigma is not widespread."

See what I mean? Many residencies shutting the doors entirely to DO applicants does reflect a prejudice, and you really don't have evidence to say the prejudice is limited to PDs. I personally think it can be largely unfounded, since some DO schools are on par with some MD schools, and I imagine the impending merger is going to help as well. But at the moment, it is not just a handful of ancient docs that view DO differently.

That's not really my point with that first bit. I guess maybe my experience is skewed but I know a lot of doctors. Not just family friends or people I've shadowed but people I have worked with for years now who have no reason to lie to me. And I have asked as many as I could from all different types of specialties to residency background. And they all say the same thing: that the letters have nothing to do with who they consider to be a good doctor, and not just them personally but they all have said that is the sentiment from all of their previous acquaintances. In the private practice world no one cares what degree you have. They want to know if you are going to do right by their patients you consult on, or that they refer to you. I know academics is different but, in my experience, often the academic perspective is not representative of physicians as a whole.

I agree with you. I think we are kind of making different points about different things. If I haven't made sense that's because I have just finished 18 hours at work I'm going a little crazy.

 

[efle]

That's not really my point with that first bit. I guess maybe my experience is skewed but I know a lot of doctors. Not just family friends or people I've shadowed but people I have worked with for years now who have no reason to lie to me. And I have asked as many as I could from all different types of specialties to residency background. And they all say the same thing: that the letters have nothing to do with who they consider to be a good doctor, and not just them personally but they all have said that is the sentiment from all of their previous acquaintances. In the private practice world no one cares what degree you have. They want to know if you are going to do right by their patients you consult on, or that they refer to you. I know academics is different but, in my experience, often the academic perspective is not representative of physicians as a whole.

I agree with you. I think we are kind of making different points about different things. If I haven't made sense that's because I have just finished 18 hours at work I'm going a little crazy.

That does tend to be the SDN wisdom, that a fancy pedigree can matter for some specialties and getting into academic positions, but that if you just want to have a private general practice somewhere you are just as equipped with DO. It will be interesting to see how perceptions change during our time as the post-med school training merges. Go get some sleep!

 

[AlphaBeta<3]

Hi everyone,

I applied to medical school this cycle was not accepted at any schools ugh. I have a 3.85 GPA/Phi Beta Kappa but I believe my low mcat of 506 and being Indian prevented me from an acceptance.

I've presented posters at SfN, have good ECs, done global health work in Africa, and 100+ clinical volunteering. I feel like the only thing holding me back from a US MD school is my low mcat.

I am considering taking a gap year and retaking the mcat and applying for the 2017-2018 cycle. I don't want to apply this summer's cycle because I really want to take the time to get a good Mcat score and make significant improvements on my app. HOWEVER, with that gap year plan it would be 2 years before I got into an MD school.

My alternative is to apply to DO, osteopathic schools for this summer cycle (2016-2017) with my current MCAT score, which should be adequate. This would save me a 1 year off my gap year but i'm concerned about finding a residency as a DO and the obvious stigma associated with it. I've always wanted an MD and believe I have the ability to score higher on the mcat as I've only taken it once. Yet, I'm afraid of just getting "older" (Melisandre lol) as all my friends start their amazing careers.

Anyone that's been in a similar situation have any advice on what to do?

Volunteer tourism in Africa, meaningless
100 clinical volunteering, not really anything
what EC's? No leadership positions? another strike
Your GPA is ok, it's not holding you back, but there are more with higher GPA's that have done more
The poster presentation is good, what are your research hours?
What are your shadowing hours?
What are your nonclinical hours?
I feel like everything about this is just slightly below average, and your MCAT is definitely not the only thing holding you back

 

[baratheonfire]

Volunteer tourism in Africa, meaningless
100 clinical volunteering, not really anything
what EC's? No leadership positions? another strike
Your GPA is ok, it's not holding you back, but there are more with higher GPA's that have done more
The poster presentation is good, what are your research hours?
What are your shadowing hours?
What are your nonclinical hours?
I feel like everything about this is just slightly below average, and your MCAT is definitely not the only thing holding you back

literally a troll post
try harder next time

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

literally a troll post
try harder next time

Actually his assessment is pretty spot on. What part do you disagree with?

 

[Nerdeka]

lol I was gonna be like "why you copy me" then realized I posted after you.

 

[efle]

I mean, without knowing exactly what "good ECs" includes there's not a lot to go on. A 3.85 is a strong GPA (though surprising it would be top 10%!), posters presented at national conference, and at least a decent bit of clinical exposure. The 29 does pop out as the weakest point unless there's something we don't know. @mary3x what was your list of schools you applied to? Did you get any interviews/waitlists?

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

Hi everyone,

I applied to medical school this cycle was not accepted at any schools ugh. I have a 3.85 GPA/Phi Beta Kappa but I believe my low mcat of 506 and being Indian prevented me from an acceptance.

I've presented posters at SfN, have good ECs, done global health work in Africa, and 100+ clinical volunteering. I feel like the only thing holding me back from a US MD school is my low mcat.

I am considering taking a gap year and retaking the mcat and applying for the 2017-2018 cycle. I don't want to apply this summer's cycle because I really want to take the time to get a good Mcat score and make significant improvements on my app. HOWEVER, with that gap year plan it would be 2 years before I got into an MD school.

My alternative is to apply to DO, osteopathic schools for this summer cycle (2016-2017) with my current MCAT score, which should be adequate. This would save me a 1 year off my gap year but i'm concerned about finding a residency as a DO and the obvious stigma associated with it. I've always wanted an MD and believe I have the ability to score higher on the mcat as I've only taken it once. Yet, I'm afraid of just getting "older" (Melisandre lol) as all my friends start their amazing careers.

Anyone that's been in a similar situation have any advice on what to do?

Lol... you will find residency as a DO. Read the NRMP reports. But, correct me if I am wrong, you are probably one of those kids who's probably focused on the initials. If you really want that MD and don't wanna kill two years, then don't apply to DO programs and take somebody's seat that could go to someone who actually wants to go and has no qualms about it..... go to the Caribbean like most Indians do if you see yourself happy with IM, FM, Peds, or Psych.

The bolded is pretty much the answer though. Take the 2 years and apply to MD schools here. Simple.

Meanwhile, I'm sure there will be kids gladly taking your spot this upcoming cycle. Choice is yours.

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

Lol also... this whole talk about one degree being less inferior to the other is only in the Pre-med mentality. Simple. Most of you guys are NOT going to be entering Derm, Ortho, Plastics, and the super competitive stuff.... hate to break it to ya. Everything else is DOABLE with either degree... depending how had you work. I've met many DOs who are cardiologists and in other specialties that do the same stuff their MD counterparts do. Only difference is the actual letters on their white coat.... which they never wear because they aren't in med school anymore.

 

[Cookiess]

If I were in your shoes, I would probably skip this upcoming cycle and work on improving your MCAT/strengthening other weaknesses on your application. However, you should also consider where your weaknesses are. If you got a handful of interview invites and do not have any acceptances, then your app is ok and it could be that you'll need to improve your interviewing skills. If you didn't get any interview invites, it could be your MCAT, some weak LORs, or something else. Your MCAT is on the lower end for MD schools and could be one reason why you're not getting interviews. But you should also take a close look at other aspects of your application as well.

One additional year off isn't much in the grand scheme of things. You don't want to look back in 10 years and say what if.