Should I go to Ireland or try again?

[CanaD0c]

I have a really big decision to make and could use some helped making it.

I'm Canadian, cGPA = 3.4 (with strong upward trend, last 2 years = ~3.9), mcat 505 (I did not study for it). I applied to Ireland on a whim and got accepted, no luck with any of the Canadian or US schools I applied to.

Should I retake the mcat and reapply? I really don't want to waste a year and just end up going to Ireland anyway.

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[PhysioMD]

Need the following info to know:
1. Where are you located in Canada? In vs out of province makes a difference

My 2 cents based on info provided (don't take any offense to the way I word it, just going to give it to you straight based on my experiences with med admissions):
- poor cGPA for Canada or US Allopathic MD, might make an exception in some provinces but I need to know your province and any special groups you belong to (Aboriginal, strong ties to norther Canada etc). Trends don't matter at all, your cGPA determines if you meet cutoffs.
- why not study for the MCAT? It's a very important test. 505 is just over 50% so to be honest, saying "I got a 505 even if I didn't study for it" doesn't mean you will get a 530 if you do study, don't make that assumption about yourself, it is a tough test. Study diligently and see how you do. It's also a marker of future USMLE performance, so if you study and can't do well, it will give you valuable info about how you will need to prep for USMLE to have any hope of actually using your MD degree and matching in a residency (i.e. poorer MCAT performers need to start USMLE prep Day 1 of school by annotating their USMLE books as they go and starting to review topics / practice questions as they cover the units in school).
- did you get into 4 year Irish school? or 5 or 6 year? if you got into 5 or 6 year, you could try again in Canada and improve the MCAT then reapply to Canada and to 4 year Irish schools
- Did you consider DO??? 3.4 and 505 would be accepted at a US DO -> much better option than any foreign school if you plan to live and work in North America

 

[CanaD0c]

Need the following info to know:
1. Where are you located in Canada? In vs out of province makes a difference

My 2 cents based on info provided (don't take any offense to the way I word it, just going to give it to you straight based on my experiences with med admissions):
- poor cGPA for Canada or US Allopathic MD, might make an exception in some provinces but I need to know your province and any special groups you belong to (Aboriginal, strong ties to norther Canada etc). Trends don't matter at all, your cGPA determines if you meet cutoffs.
- why not study for the MCAT? It's a very important test. 505 is just over 50% so to be honest, saying "I got a 505 even if I didn't study for it" doesn't mean you will get a 530 if you do study, don't make that assumption about yourself, it is a tough test. Study diligently and see how you do. It's also a marker of future USMLE performance, so if you study and can't do well, it will give you valuable info about how you will need to prep for USMLE to have any hope of actually using your MD degree and matching in a residency (i.e. poorer MCAT performers need to start USMLE prep Day 1 of school by annotating their USMLE books as they go and starting to review topics / practice questions as they cover the units in school).
- did you get into 4 year Irish school? or 5 or 6 year? if you got into 5 or 6 year, you could try again in Canada and improve the MCAT then reapply to Canada and to 4 year Irish schools
- Did you consider DO??? 3.4 and 505 would be accepted at a US DO -> much better option than any foreign school if you plan to live and work in North America

-Ontario, no special group. Trends do matter I think, especially with the way some schools calculate GPA.
-It's not that I didn't want to study, but a full-time job took away a lot of my studying time. Error on my part of course.
-I got a 4 year school
-Tbh, the stigma around DO is still around in my opinion, so I find it hard to consider it an option right now.

Thanks for your feedback . I will be doing the mcat regardless since I've already paid for it and really want to know how I'd do with proper studying.

 

[UBC2014]

I have a really big decision to make and could use some helped making it.

I'm Canadian, cGPA = 3.4 (with strong upward trend, last 2 years = ~3.9), mcat 505 (I did not study for it). I applied to Ireland on a whim and got accepted, no luck with any of the Canadian or US schools I applied to.

Should I retake the mcat and reapply? I really don't want to waste a year and just end up going to Ireland anyway.

"Did not study for it" - well if you have that kind of approach to your career, then you may as well just go abroad to wherever accepted you and see what happens.

If you want the best options possible for your med career, then you need to take the steps involved to achieving it seriously.

 

[CanaD0c]

"Did not study for it" - well if you have that kind of approach to your career, then you may as well just go abroad to wherever accepted you and see what happens.

If you want the best options possible for your med career, then you need to take the steps involved to achieving it seriously.

Thanks for the insight, I clarified in my second comment that I did not have the time to study for it and admit it's my fault. The reason I mentioned this is that there is a possibility I can score better given appropriate time to prepare.

 

[deleted158872]

it depends on your age & whether you can afford to hold off another year...

 

[CanaD0c]

it depends on your age & whether you can afford to hold off another year...

Are you attending an Irish school, Maruko?

 

[deleted158872]

Are you attending an Irish school, Maruko?

no, although i received acceptances and will definitely go outside the US if the US doesn't want me by July.

 

[UBC2014]

Thanks for the insight, I clarified in my second comment that I did not have the time to study for it and admit it's my fault. The reason I mentioned this is that there is a possibility I can score better given appropriate time to prepare.

Well, retake the MCAT and apply to USDO programs if you want the absolute next best option to Canadian and USMD programs. You might even have a chance at some USMD programs if you actually get a much stronger MCAT score.

 

[Gos81238ia]

I have a really big decision to make and could use some helped making it.

I'm Canadian, cGPA = 3.4 (with strong upward trend, last 2 years = ~3.9), mcat 505 (I did not study for it). I applied to Ireland on a whim and got accepted, no luck with any of the Canadian or US schools I applied to.

Should I retake the mcat and reapply? I really don't want to waste a year and just end up going to Ireland anyway.

Irish grad here, here's my two cents

You can retake the MCAT, sure, but your GPA is still going to be an issue. You would likely require a Master's program to try and get your GPA up because if you don't meet the cutoffs you won't get an interview. The Canadian application really wants you to have lots of experiences on your CV - how well rounded are you in terms of work experience, research, volunteering, leisure activities?

Ontario is a good province to be from if you're an IMG, most IMG residency spots are in Ontario anyway. I would say just take the Ireland acceptance and go. Match rates were 84% country wide average so you're in good hands if you work hard. The only thing I would caution you about is the USMLE. Are you generally a good or poor test taker? From your recent 3.9 GPA, it seems like you can work hard and succeed on exams, but your MCAT performance tells a different story. You know yourself, if you do think you simply didn't work hard enough on the MCAT and you could succeed on a board exam, then great. That's really the biggest roadblock people here face. Finally, how picky are you with specialty and location? Are you good with family med/internal med/psych or peds? Those are pretty solid choices which almost anyone can get into, provided they don't fail any board exams. Are you willing to train in the states? The majority of Irish IMGs apply to Canada and the states or the states only because there are exponentially more spots there. Other than struggling with board exams, the second most common problem I see here is people applying to specialties that are too competitive or being very picky with location and not applying broadly enough.

Don't take your acceptance to an Irish school for granted, the Atlantic bridge won't be jumping to accept you back if you turn them down. I had a few friends who were accepted one year, turned it down and then had to re-apply for 2 years again to be accepted in Ireland.

 

[CanaD0c]

Irish grad here, here's my two cents

You can retake the MCAT, sure, but your GPA is still going to be an issue. You would likely require a Master's program to try and get your GPA up because if you don't meet the cutoffs you won't get an interview. The Canadian application really wants you to have lots of experiences on your CV - how well rounded are you in terms of work experience, research, volunteering, leisure activities?

Ontario is a good province to be from if you're an IMG, most IMG residency spots are in Ontario anyway. I would say just take the Ireland acceptance and go. Match rates were 84% country wide average so you're in good hands if you work hard. The only thing I would caution you about is the USMLE. Are you generally a good or poor test taker? From your recent 3.9 GPA, it seems like you can work hard and succeed on exams, but your MCAT performance tells a different story. You know yourself, if you do think you simply didn't work hard enough on the MCAT and you could succeed on a board exam, then great. That's really the biggest roadblock people here face. Finally, how picky are you with specialty and location? Are you good with family med/internal med/psych or peds? Those are pretty solid choices which almost anyone can get into, provided they don't fail any board exams. Are you willing to train in the states? The majority of Irish IMGs apply to Canada and the states or the states only because there are exponentially more spots there. Other than struggling with board exams, the second most common problem I see here is people applying to specialties that are too competitive or being very picky with location and not applying broadly enough.

Don't take your acceptance to an Irish school for granted, the Atlantic bridge won't be jumping to accept you back if you turn them down. I had a few friends who were accepted one year, turned it down and then had to re-apply for 2 years again to be accepted in Ireland.

Thanks for the info Gos81238ia, really means a lot to me. My ECs are good I think, lots of work/research/volunteering etc. I know I can do well on the boards with hard work. I'm not too picky about specialties, if I get IM I would be happy, GenSurg I would be ecstatic. Would prefer Canada but the US is totally fine.

Like you said, my worry is giving Canada/US another shot then missing my Ireland opportunity.

 

[RCSI student]

Thanks for the info Gos81238ia, really means a lot to me. My ECs are good I think, lots of work/research/volunteering etc. I know I can do well on the boards with hard work. I'm not too picky about specialties, if I get IM I would be happy, GenSurg I would be ecstatic. Would prefer Canada but the US is totally fine.

Like you said, my worry is giving Canada/US another shot then missing my Ireland opportunity.

That was the main reason I decided to take my acceptance right out of undergrad. I didn't want to spend a year doing something else or a masters degree just to beef up my application. I knew plenty of people who were in their third and fourth years of applying to Canada with applications better than my own and really didn't like the uncertainty of that. Of course, there are also people who get after a few attempts as well which gives them more options and flexibility down the road. I think just be honest with yourself as to what your preference is. If you feel like waiting a year is okay for you then apply broadly to medical schools / DO schools next year. If waiting a year is unacceptable, Irish schools are great and will give you excellent chances for matching in either Canada or the U.S. Hope that helps.

 

[Gos81238ia]

Thanks for the info Gos81238ia, really means a lot to me. My ECs are good I think, lots of work/research/volunteering etc. I know I can do well on the boards with hard work. I'm not too picky about specialties, if I get IM I would be happy, GenSurg I would be ecstatic. Would prefer Canada but the US is totally fine.

Like you said, my worry is giving Canada/US another shot then missing my Ireland opportunity.

Gen Surg is basically impossible to get in in Canada; there are only 5 IMG spots in the whole country. Way more spots in the states, but you need to absolutely knock your Steps out of the park, we're talking 250+ (As a reference, our class average at UCD for Step 1 was 228). Its do-able, we did have a Canadian match to Gen Surg in the states, but a good idea to have IM as a back-up, exponentially more spots there and a wide range of programs accepting a wide range of board scores. If you're happy with the sound of that, then you're all set.

Its a tough choice, but being on the other side of matching, I can see the roadblocks people stumble over as IMGs, like I mentioned above. Its not a scary random event where some people match and others randomly don't, there are particular reasons for it. Looking at it in that perspective, its a lot less scary to take the IMG route. In my opinion, Canada is just never a guarantee, plenty of very qualified applicants don't get into medical school every year so when you have an offer from a reputable IMG school, that's a pretty great offer.

 

[Medstart108]

I have a really big decision to make and could use some helped making it.

I'm Canadian, cGPA = 3.4 (with strong upward trend, last 2 years = ~3.9), mcat 505 (I did not study for it). I applied to Ireland on a whim and got accepted, no luck with any of the Canadian or US schools I applied to.

Should I retake the mcat and reapply? I really don't want to waste a year and just end up going to Ireland anyway.

With that last 2 years at a 3.9 you are basically eligible at Western and Queen's and this doesn't matter where you live in Canada. The issue with Western is you'll need a great MCAT and with Queen's is that its a crapshoot even for the best of candidates. You are likely going to have a tougher time at the other schools however since the weighting formula at Ottawa will help but not make you competitive and neither at UofT. Mac looks at your cGPA which most likely rules you out. If you retook the MCAT and did insanely well on the verbal (12+) you can apply to Mac.

The issue with the states is that while they do consider upward trends they don't care as much about them as in Canada where the weighting formulas can essentially make your GPA show up to some schools as 3.9. Your shot at US MD schools is probably pretty low as a result even with an improved MCAT, but might be doable at US DO with an improved MCAT.

If you aren't at Ontario I think it might be worth a shot waiting a year depending on how your IP school considers GPA, but in my opinion if you don't feel like you can bump up your MCAT to Western's cutoffs its worth going abroad now if you aren't thinking of a competitive specialty and you can bear being uprooted for the next 6-10 years of your life specialty dependent.

 

[blytheyyz]

@CanaD0c - here is my 2 cents:

I think you really need to be ready before you move abroad for school. I am now 28 years old and have applied 4 times for medical school. Finally I got in to an Irish GEMS program this year (2016 entry) and I am THRILLED. I had to write the MCAT 3 times, I did extra undergrad courses and a master's degree to boost my grades, I volunteered endlessly and gained a lot of clinical experience. I am so, so, so happy that the school was able to see that I am capable of medical school, and also, given my history, I am now SO ready to move abroad for medical school, it couldn't feel more right. It feels like everything in my life is clicking. So for me, it's really a no-brainer. I didn't apply to Ireland before this year because I was afraid of going abroad - but now I'm ready. Going in with eyes wide open in terms of the challenges that IMGs face, and SO excited about becoming a doctor!!!
.
I think that if you go away to Ireland feeling a bit hesitant, it might not work out well for you. Maybe you won't be as in to the studying and you won't do well, you won't be happy, you'll have doubts, etc. So I think you should really think about that before you go.

Also, I will say, although I think I had to re-apply to Canada several times before I decided to apply to Ireland, if I could do it over again, I definitely would have applied sooner. But, everyone has their process and I think that's really important.

 

[binks3]

Gen Surg is basically impossible to get in in Canada; there are only 5 IMG spots in the whole country. Way more spots in the states, but you need to absolutely knock your Steps out of the park, we're talking 250+ (As a reference, our class average at UCD for Step 1 was 228). Its do-able, we did have a Canadian match to Gen Surg in the states, but a good idea to have IM as a back-up, exponentially more spots there and a wide range of programs accepting a wide range of board scores. If you're happy with the sound of that, then you're all set.

Don't let this post deter you. We had two Canadian matches to Gen Surg from my class (Limerick) this year (to Toronto & Ottawa). It is more than possible if you are dedicated enough and put in the time and the work.

 

[PhysioMD]

I have a really big decision to make and could use some helped making it.

I'm Canadian, cGPA = 3.4 (with strong upward trend, last 2 years = ~3.9), mcat 505 (I did not study for it). I applied to Ireland on a whim and got accepted, no luck with any of the Canadian or US schools I applied to.

Should I retake the mcat and reapply? I really don't want to waste a year and just end up going to Ireland anyway.

Curious which schools you applied to? I thought 3.4 / 505 was a low score by Irish standards?? No offense meant but I had similar scores and didn't get into all Irish schools and someone advised me that my GPA (3.7) was a tad low compared to other North American applicants. So I'm curious where you were accepted...

 

[CanaD0c]

@CanaD0c - here is my 2 cents:

I think you really need to be ready before you move abroad for school. I am now 28 years old and have applied 4 times for medical school. Finally I got in to an Irish GEMS program this year (2016 entry) and I am THRILLED. I had to write the MCAT 3 times, I did extra undergrad courses and a master's degree to boost my grades, I volunteered endlessly and gained a lot of clinical experience. I am so, so, so happy that the school was able to see that I am capable of medical school, and also, given my history, I am now SO ready to move abroad for medical school, it couldn't feel more right. It feels like everything in my life is clicking. So for me, it's really a no-brainer. I didn't apply to Ireland before this year because I was afraid of going abroad - but now I'm ready. Going in with eyes wide open in terms of the challenges that IMGs face, and SO excited about becoming a doctor!!!
.
I think that if you go away to Ireland feeling a bit hesitant, it might not work out well for you. Maybe you won't be as in to the studying and you won't do well, you won't be happy, you'll have doubts, etc. So I think you should really think about that before you go.

Also, I will say, although I think I had to re-apply to Canada several times before I decided to apply to Ireland, if I could do it over again, I definitely would have applied sooner. But, everyone has their process and I think that's really important.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I do feel hesitant, I don't want to go to Limerick with a lot of 'what-ifs' but I also doubt I will have much success with Canadian schools.

 

[deleted158872]

Thanks for sharing your experience. I do feel hesitant, I don't want to go to Limerick with a lot of 'what-ifs' but I also doubt I will have much success with Canadian schools.

go to Ireland, then reapply to Canada & US while in Irish school.
interviews will be a hassle, though, as you'll have to fly across countries.

 

[blytheyyz]

Thanks for sharing your experience. I do feel hesitant, I don't want to go to Limerick with a lot of 'what-ifs' but I also doubt I will have much success with Canadian schools.

I totally understand why you feel hesitant, and I used to be in that same mind set as well. It's a big undertaking and you have to be ready. I think take a good, honest look at your file (GPA, experiences, MCAT scores) and think honestly if you have a shot at CDN schools. If you do, I would definitely go for it again. But if not, this could be a huge opportunity for you. Limerick is an excellent school with an innovative learning program and a very, very good match rate.