Should I do a second Bachelor's or a Master's?

[Mickey.Mouse]

Hey everyone,

I graduated with BS/MS in 2016 with a combined GPA of 3.05. Took my MCAT in 2017 with little to no preparation and scored a 488. It's a horrible score, I know. It seems like everything is going wrong for me and that there's no chance to being admitted to medical school. For the past 2 years I've been working as a scribe and an assistant at an accounting firm. Really needed the money to pay off loans and to help my fam.

Obviously my GPA and MCAT score wont get me accepted anywhere, so I'm looking for options. I really want to become a physician.

Should I seek a 2nd bachelors and apply after my "second" year? or should I apply to a Master's program?

I do have 5000+ hours of shadowing. Volunteered at a clinic in Ecuador for underprivileged indigenous people.

Any advice is welcome.

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[Isoval]

Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

 

[SadAsian]

You need to invest in an MCAT prep program and get a score of at least 510+ to redeem that MCAT score. You'll also want to avoid schools that average scores because it'll be hard to rescue yourself from a 488.

I think you'd benefit more from a DIY post-bac or an SMP (high risk, high reward) than a second bachelor's. Honestly, if you get a 3.9+ at an SMP, that could help redeem your low GPA.

I am intrigued at the 5000+ hours of shadowing. Is that from scribing or did you do this independently? (It wouldn't count if these were while you were scribing).

You might also need some more ECs, some stellar ones, in fact, to help make up for the low GPA/MCAT.

(I'm not an AdCom but that's what I'd recommend)

 

[Catalystik]

Hey everyone,

I graduated with BS/MS in 2016 with a combined GPA of 3.05. Took my MCAT in 2017 with little to no preparation and scored a 488. It's a horrible score, I know. It seems like everything is going wrong for me and that there's no chance to being admitted to medical school. For the past 2 years I've been working as a scribe and an assistant at an accounting firm. Really needed the money to pay off loans and to help my fam.

Obviously my GPA and MCAT score wont get me accepted anywhere, so I'm looking for options. I really want to become a physician.

Should I seek a 2nd bachelors and apply after my "second" year? or should I apply to a Master's program?

I do have 5000+ hours of shadowing. Volunteered at a clinic in Ecuador for underprivileged indigenous people.

Any advice is welcome.

Are you able to separate out your undergrad cGPA and sGPA from the masters GPAs? What are they?

 

[Mickey.Mouse]

You need to invest in an MCAT prep program and get a score of at least 510+ to redeem that MCAT score. You'll also want to avoid schools that average scores because it'll be hard to rescue yourself from a 488.

I think you'd benefit more from a DIY post-bac or an SMP (high risk, high reward) than a second bachelor's. Honestly, if you get a 3.9+ at an SMP, that could help redeem your low GPA.

I am intrigued at the 5000+ hours of shadowing. Is that from scribing or did you do this independently? (It wouldn't count if these were while you were scribing).

You might also need some more ECs, some stellar ones, in fact, to help make up for the low GPA/MCAT.

(I'm not an AdCom but that's what I'd recommend)

Hi SadAsian,

Thank you for the feedback. I figured that doing an SMP is the best way to go. As for the 5000+ hours are of shadowing physicians since HS. The scribing hours are much less since it was just a PT.

What type of EC do you recommend?

 

[Mickey.Mouse]

Are you able to separate out your undergrad cGPA and sGPA from the masters GPAs? What are they?

My University wont give me a separate GPA for Undergrad and Masters, so I will need to do it manually. I will post it as soon as I got an idea. All I know is that I did score higher during my masters courses.

 

[Catalystik]

My University wont give me a separate GPA for Undergrad and Masters, so I will need to do it manually. I will post it as soon as I got an idea. All I know is that I did score higher during my masters courses.

You'll find that many MD-affiliated Special Masters Programs require a uGPA of 3.0 for consideration.

 

[Goro]

Hey everyone,

I graduated with BS/MS in 2016 with a combined GPA of 3.05. Took my MCAT in 2017 with little to no preparation and scored a 488. It's a horrible score, I know. It seems like everything is going wrong for me and that there's no chance to being admitted to medical school.

I can't sugar coat this: Taking a high stakes, career deciding exam is a major reason why things are going wrong for you.

So, if you ever wish to be a doctor, start making good choices.

 

[ciestar]

Dear god... 5000 hours of shadowing is SO MUCH lol

The advice here is sound. Do not retake the MCAT until you’re ready and consistently scoring 510+ on practice tests.

 

[gyngyn]

Just for the record: 50 shadowing hours is more than enough (as long as a good portion is some form of primary care).

 

[SadAsian]

Hi SadAsian,

Thank you for the feedback. I figured that doing an SMP is the best way to go. As for the 5000+ hours are of shadowing physicians since HS. The scribing hours are much less since it was just a PT.

What type of EC do you recommend?

I'd volunteer with the underserved (homeless shelters, food banks, soup kitchens, free clinics) to gain both some non-clinical and clinical volunteer hours. I'm hoping you want to help people, so these ideas won't seem too far-fetched. Demonstrating a commitment to helping those less fortunate is a great way to show medical schools your compassion, love for helping people, etc. You need something else besides shadowing + scribing on your resume.

Agree with Catalystik. You'll need to make sure you can qualify for an SMP. Don't hesitate to call the SMP admin office and ask for help or guidance concerning admissions. Some of them will walk you through your application and what you need to do to improve as well as your likelihood of matriculating into their SMP.

 

[DubbiDoctor]

A 3.05 and a 488 will be very difficult to recover from. I think it would be wise to consider alternative careers, such as public health, pharmacy or podiatry, whose professional schools have less demanding academic requirements. While it is still possible in theory to get into medical school, you're at a glaring disadvantage with a 14th percentile MCAT and a GPA barely above 3.0. Making yourself competitive would take numerous years, tens of thousands of dollars in tuition money and perhaps multiple application cycles with no guarantee of success, which may cause you tremendous stress and negatively affect your quality of life.

 

[trobinsonmd]

I've definitely seen people recover from numbers like these, but it is very rare, and in all cases, these people have spent 3-5 years getting experience, reinventing themselves, and ultimately putting together an application that shows adcoms that they are worthy of being admitted. Not sure if a masters degree confers much additional benefit over a DIY post bac at your local community college... you'd save more money and have more flexibility going the DIY route... wrt the MCAT, i would invest in a course if you can and do not take the exam again until you are consistently scoring around 80th percentile... you're in a pretty deep hole, but if you work hard enough and put in the time, you have a shot at getting into some programs. Also not sure what your situation is and how desperately you want to get in, but I've heard of some people moving to states where getting into med school is easier (midwestern states usually) and establishing residency for the purposes of applying as an in-state applicant... if you are willing to do that, I'd look up schools that have strong in-state biases and relatively low stats for admission

 

[Mickey.Mouse]

You'll find that many MD-affiliated Special Masters Programs require a uGPA of 3.0 for consideration.

I'm currently applying to Rutgers Masters of Biomedical Science program. There's no minimum GPA requirement on there website. I will call them and do my research.

Thanks

 

[Mickey.Mouse]

I can't sugar coat this: Taking a high stakes, career deciding exam is a major reason why things are going wrong for you.

So, if you ever wish to be a doctor, start making good choices.

I was planning on taking the mcat again in Sept, which gives me 2 months to prepare but I guess I'll postpone it until I'm certain I'll score in the 80th-90th percentile.

 

[Mickey.Mouse]

Dear god... 5000 hours of shadowing is SO MUCH lol

The advice here is sound. Do not retake the MCAT until you’re ready and consistently scoring 510+ on practice tests.

I've been consistently shadowing my family doctor since senior yr in HS and through out college.

 

[gyngyn]

I've been consistently shadowing my family doctor since senior yr in HS and through out college.

You can quit now.

 

[Goro]

I've been consistently shadowing my family doctor since senior yr in HS and through out college.

Frankly, this is overkill.

 

[Mickey.Mouse]

I'd volunteer with the underserved (homeless shelters, food banks, soup kitchens, free clinics) to gain both some non-clinical and clinical volunteer hours. I'm hoping you want to help people, so these ideas won't seem too far-fetched. Demonstrating a commitment to helping those less fortunate is a great way to show medical schools your compassion, love for helping people, etc. You need something else besides shadowing + scribing on your resume.

Agree with Catalystik. You'll need to make sure you can qualify for an SMP. Don't hesitate to call the SMP admin office and ask for help or guidance concerning admissions. Some of them will walk you through your application and what you need to do to improve as well as your likelihood of matriculating into their SMP.

Thank you for the suggestions. In fact, I'm already volunteering at a free clinic. I only have 27 hrs of volunteering that but I will stop shadowing and start volunteering more. I've also volunteered in Ecuador but I don't know if those hours count in the US.

 

[Mickey.Mouse]

You can quit now.

I will spend my time volunteering instead. An advisor at my school suggested getting as many shadowing hrs as possible.

 

[Shotapp]

Advisors don't usually give sound advice.

 

[gyngyn]

I will spend my time volunteering instead. An advisor at my school suggested getting as many shadowing hrs as possible.

Surely, they had no idea that you were doing thousands...

 

[Gator2010]

So I am in the application process, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I think the most important thing to remember here is that you are still young. I too was in a situation after my first degree where I was in no position to be accepted into medical school. Had a 3.0 GPA on the dot and a sGPA in the 2.7 region. I went out and did something else for 7 years, but still found myself longing for medicine. Doing this helped reignite the flame I needed to put my butt in gear and really work for it. I volunteered while still working full time, got a job in research, did some other ECs that I enjoyed, did a post-bac and received a 4.0, and studied my butt off to get a pretty good MCAT score. This isn't a sprint but a marathon. If you are not in the position to give this 100% then postpone, again you are still young. Do not feel pressured to make this happen right away. Sometimes people (myself included) need a break from academia to find out what they love and to refocus their minds.

 

[Mickey.Mouse]

So I am in the application process, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I think the most important thing to remember here is that you are still young. I too was in a situation after my first degree where I was in no position to be accepted into medical school. Had a 3.0 GPA on the dot and a sGPA in the 2.7 region. I went out and did something else for 7 years, but still found myself longing for medicine. Doing this helped reignite the flame I needed to put my butt in gear and really work for it. I volunteered while still working full time, got a job in research, did some other ECs that I enjoyed, did a post-bac and received a 4.0, and studied my butt off to get a pretty good MCAT score. This isn't a sprint but a marathon. If you are not in the position to give this 100% then postpone, again you are still young. Do not feel pressured to make this happen right away. Sometimes people (myself included) need a break from academia to find out what they love and to refocus their minds.

Thank you for sharing your story, everyone has been so helpful here. After reading some of the comments, I was doubting my chances of ever getting in, despite doing an SMP or DIY Postbacc. Your comment gives me a little hope and obv I need to put in hard work to get a 4.0 GPA, MCAT and present a solid app. I'm obviously not the same person as the kid on his 1st yr undergrad, I've matured significantly and have set the right goals.

As for your postbacc, was it a DIY at a local CC or University?

 

[Gator2010]

Thank you for sharing your story, everyone has been so helpful here. After reading some of the comments, I was doubting my chances of ever getting in, despite doing an SMP or DIY Postbacc. Your comment gives me a little hope and obv I need to put in hard work to get a 4.0 GPA, MCAT and present a solid app. I'm obviously not the same person as the kid on his 1st yr undergrad, I've matured significantly and have set the right goals.

As for your postbacc, was it a DIY at a local CC or University?

I would say it was a little of both. While I was working full time I took about 20+ credits at a local CC just to prove to myself that I could actually handle academia again. After talking to an ADCOM at my top Med School of choice, he recommended that I really need to take classes at a 4 year University. I trust this person and left my full time job to pursue my dream full time. I applied and was accepted to one of the bigger universities here in Florida and received a second Bachelors degree. So in total with CC and University I completed 60+ credits receiving a 4.0 in all.

Read some of the stories from "LOW GPA/MCAT Success Stories (Posts by Nontrads Already Accepted to Med School)". You have some pretty inspirational people in there. It is never to late to reinvent yourself and prove that you can do this! Take the advice of several of the people here. Your original low MCAT score concerns me, but it is not a death sentence on your dreams. Please feel free to reach out to me if you have any questions. For people like you and I, I believe that taking some time and truly reinventing ourselves is so important.

 

[Med Ed]

Should I seek a 2nd bachelors and apply after my "second" year? or should I apply to a Master's program?

Neither. A second bachelors is unnecessary and a MS won't fix your underlying deficiencies. With 30+ credits of high grades in challenging courses from a four-year undergraduate institution you can start to make a case for yourself. Do that, then plan an MCAT retake with adequate preparation, then consider applying. Keep up the volunteering in the meantime.

It is going to take a couple of years of effort to pull this off, but you do have a shot. Every year we admit students who had to spend a couple of years in the wilderness before getting their acts together.

 

[Mickey.Mouse]

I would say it was a little of both. While I was working full time I took about 20+ credits at a local CC just to prove to myself that I could actually handle academia again. After talking to an ADCOM at my top Med School of choice, he recommended that I really need to take classes at a 4 year University. I trust this person and left my full time job to pursue my dream full time. I applied and was accepted to one of the bigger universities here in Florida and received a second Bachelors degree. So in total with CC and University I completed 60+ credits receiving a 4.0 in all.

Read some of the stories from "LOW GPA/MCAT Success Stories (Posts by Nontrads Already Accepted to Med School)". You have some pretty inspirational people in there. It is never to late to reinvent yourself and prove that you can do this! Take the advice of several of the people here. Your original low MCAT score concerns me, but it is not a death sentence on your dreams. Please feel free to reach out to me if you have any questions. For people like you and I, I believe that taking some time and truly reinventing ourselves is so important.

I've reached out to the AdCom at my IS Med school and they've told me that taking additional courses at another University will be pointless as it will be avg with my current GPA. They suggested an MS or an SMP, but there are so many cases of people getting accepted by just taking the toughest courses at a CC or Uni and acing them. I'm confused as to which route to take as it involves thousands of dollars and significant amount of time. I am not looking for the easiest way out but more like the correct way to approach this. Im ready to give my 150% to school and to preparing for the MCAT.

Neither. A second bachelors is unnecessary and a MS won't fix your underlying deficiencies. With 30+ credits of high grades in challenging courses from a four-year undergraduate institution you can start to make a case for yourself. Do that, then plan an MCAT retake with adequate preparation, then consider applying. Keep up the volunteering in the meantime.

It is going to take a couple of years of effort to pull this off, but you do have a shot. Every year we admit students who had to spend a couple of years in the wilderness before getting their acts together.

30+ credits as a non-matriculated student at a 4-yr University? Or should I enroll with the Uni as if I were to get a 2nd Bachelors? Should it be a state Uni or does it have to be a private? I'm not sure if that factors in to their decision when they analyze my GPA.

I've started to reach out to additional programs in my community so that I could volunteer, hopefully I'll hear from them soon.

Thank you everyone

 

[Med Ed]

30+ credits as a non-matriculated student at a 4-yr University? Or should I enroll with the Uni as if I were to get a 2nd Bachelors? Should it be a state Uni or does it have to be a private? I'm not sure if that factors in to their decision when they analyze my GPA.

I've started to reach out to additional programs in my community so that I could volunteer, hopefully I'll hear from them soon.

Thank you everyone

Your enrollment status and state vs. private is irrelevant. Remember that you are not attempting to completely repair your GPA. You are trying to prove your academic mettle, and there are medical schools that will look primarily at your most recent coursework. Not every school will give you the time of day, but again, a recent history of strong grades/solid MCAT will encourage at least some adcoms see you as a good bet.

SMP's can be great, but they are of variable quality, potentially competitive to get into, and can cost a lot of $$$.

 

[Bob's Gift]

You can quit now.

Very good advice! Shadowing can become addictive!

 

[Mickey.Mouse]

Your enrollment status and state vs. private is irrelevant. Remember that you are not attempting to completely repair your GPA. You are trying to prove your academic mettle, and there are medical schools that will look primarily at your most recent coursework. Not every school will give you the time of day, but again, a recent history of strong grades/solid MCAT will encourage at least some adcoms see you as a good bet.

SMP's can be great, but they are of variable quality, potentially competitive to get into, and can cost a lot of $$$.

I'm currently applying to an SMP, fingers crossed that I get in! If not, then I will do the DIY Postbacc that many have suggested.