Should I be worried that I keep losing first author opportunities?

[CuriousMDStudent]

I posted on here originally about 2 projects that I collected all data on and then a resident/fellow was introduced to the project to help me write the intro, discussion, and conclusion sections and data analysis. People said because the resident/fellow knew the background of the project better, it made sense why they get first author on those projects.

Very well. However, I recently created a side project out of my main research project. The main research project is something I will definitely be 1st author on. However, the side project is something that I will be 2nd author on even though I was the one who took initiative and collected the initial data and presented the idea to my PI.

My PI states that he wants to push out this project fast and that he wants to introduce a resident/fellow to the project because he wants to collect more data and that resident/fellow can write up the manuscript for me because I am studying for my boards and he wants someone else to take over.

Part of me feels the best move is to accept this and move on. I can't go directly against my PI. On the other hand, I'm kinda pissed because the initial idea was mine! I mean he did give me guidance on how to formulate it into an actual project. But I literally was doing my project and was like wait here's a legitimate question to ask.

Is this just the luck of being a medical student? He told me he guarantees I will be first author on my main project but he wants to hand off my side project to another fellow to ensure fast publication.

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[GoSpursGo]

I mean if you’re not able to finish the project right now because you’re studying for boards, then it’s not reasonable for you to expect everyone else to wait for you. I’ve lost first authorship in this exact scenario as a fellow because we had a baby and I wasn’t able to commit to writing the paper. So moving down the author list due to bandwidth issues is not unique to being a med student.

 

[CuriousMDStudent]

I mean if you’re not able to finish the project right now because you’re studying for boards, then it’s not reasonable for you to expect everyone else to wait for you. I’ve lost first authorship in this exact scenario as a fellow because we had a baby and I wasn’t able to commit to writing the paper. So moving down the author list due to bandwidth issues is not unique to being a med student.

Well I didn't say I couldn't finish the project. But we talk a good amount and he knows I'm stressed about STEP 1 studying and that my exam is in a 3-4 months so he said because of my step 1 studying he wants to include a resident/fellow to finish the project.

I'm ngl writing a manuscript and collecting more data could take more time away from my studying. It's a P/F STEP 1 but I still want to spend as much time mastering the information as possible for clerkships.

I kinda feel I should go along with his plan since he's a PI and I still get to put two projects on my CV and I don't want to have any bad rift with him since he's my main mentor.

I just wonder if getting 2 first authors vs 1 first author and 1 second author is worth me going against his idea.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Well I didn't say I couldn't finish the project. But we talk a good amount and he knows I'm stressed about STEP 1 studying and that my exam is in a 3-4 months so he said because of my step 1 studying he wants to include a resident/fellow to finish the project.

I'm ngl writing a manuscript and collecting more data could take more time away from my studying. It's a P/F STEP 1 but I still want to spend as much time mastering the information as possible for clerkships.

I kinda feel I should go along with his plan since he's a PI and I still get to put two projects on my CV and I don't want to have any bad rift with him since he's my main mentor.

I just wonder if getting 2 first authors vs 1 first author and 1 second author is worth me going against his idea.

Probably should just go with it. Seems like he is being thoughtful about your time while still getting you publications. 2nd author is still a very prominent position

 

[mvenus929]

The 'right' thing for your PI to do would be to have you as first author, but you also have to be able to do the bulk of the writing in this case. If you can't, then it's reasonable for someone else to do it. You still get your name on the paper, you'll obviously be able to talk about it in detail for interviews so no one is going to think less of you for having a second author paper. Is it fair? Eh. But you also don't want to burn bridges, and if having the resident/fellow on the paper gets it published quicker, it's more likely to end up as an actual citable publication on your CV rather than something that's just 'submitted'.

 

[Lawpy]

I think your PI has the right intentions and is trying to work through the constraints and priorities involved.

 

[sloop]

This is not fair, but what you should do about it is a different question.

It sounds like your PI is looking for any opportunity to insert residents into your projects in such a way that they can be first author. That sucks and really is unfair. It may or may not be unfair in the granular way that authorship should be decided in individual cases—that is, the resident did do more work and should be first author—but it is unfair in the broader scheme of your relationship with this PI. If you’re interested in being first author, can do the work, and took the initiative on a project from the beginning, I do think it is uncool for your PI to just be inserting people in ways that basically guarantee them first authorship over you.

The question is really how you want to proceed. I don’t think any of us can tell you how you should proceed because we don’t really know the temperament of your PI or your relationship with them. The reality is that these things play a big role in how you can handle these sorts of professional disagreements. It’s not just your PI. If your future PD or department chair is a total dick, your options for addressing things are worse than if they’re generally reasonable.

I know a lot of people are so worried about burning bridges that they would just “let this go” and not say anything, but I’m not so sure. Obviously don’t go in angry and guns blazing, but I do think you can address this with your PI if you do it tactfully. This is, of course, assuming your PI is generally a reasonable person.

I think you could say something like “I want to say that I totally appreciate all of the opportunities you have given me, but I wanted to talk to you about something. It’s totally possible that I just don’t understand the reasons behind these things, but it feels kind of like I have been in a position to do most of the work on several projects lately which led me to believe I would be first author, but then a resident has been assigned to do most of that work and has gotten first author ahead of me.”

The truth is, your PI might just be misunderstanding your goals. He might (reasonably) think that, at your stage of career, volume of pubs, especially if you’re second author, will be more helpful to you than being first author on a publication. He might think that by putting a resident in to write things up, it allows you to start a new project sooner and get you in a position to be an author on more publications.

 

[CuriousMDStudent]

Thanks for all the opinions. I just decided to agree with it. @sloop this is a different PI from the other one. I just noticed this trend where residents/ fellows get included. Oh well. Life moves on.

I don't really want to fight him on this. With my last PI, I did bring it up but in my experience, the PI's already made their mind up when making these decisions. Like others said, I believe he thinks the resident/fellow can bring this to publication faster so I guess that's how it is.

 

[GoSpursGo]

One other thought--this could be a perfect opportunity for a co-first author situation. If you could write up the intro, along with methods and results of what you've already done and submit to your PI, then I think you would have a strong case to ask for co-first authorship.

That said, if you hear it's a no-go, then I wouldn't ruffle feathers.

 

[Chelsea FC]

While being the first author is great it's not nearly as important as building that bond with your PI that will go to bat for you when application season comes. So Im saying in the grand scheme of things it doesnt matter just keep doing good work and make that PI like you.

 

[Lawpy]

One other thought--this could be a perfect opportunity for a co-first author situation. If you could write up the intro, along with methods and results of what you've already done and submit to your PI, then I think you would have a strong case to ask for co-first authorship.

That said, if you hear it's a no-go, then I wouldn't ruffle feathers.

How is a co first viewed compared to second author in both residency and in academia? I know co first is technically supposed to be the same as first but with journals and pubmed categorizing things as First Author et al, it reduces the co first to second… and the second author itself is already noteworthy

 

[GoSpursGo]

How is a co first viewed compared to second author in both residency and in academia? I know co first is technically supposed to be the same as first but with journals and pubmed categorizing things as First Author et al, it reduces the co first to second… and the second author itself is already noteworthy

Yeah it’s somewhat dependent on how closely anyone reads the citation. But because you’re imputing into ERAS you can make it clear that it’s a co first. If someone is paying attention it should be same.

 

[mistafab]

OP - some things in life require you to be up front with your communication, expectations, etc. Academia is no different.

If you want to be first author on a paper, then be up front about it at the start of the project. A simple 2 minute discussion with you PI like "hey, these projects we are doing are great. I am hoping to get first author on a paper at some point in our work together - what can I do to make that happen?" Or something like that in your words.

Let your expectations/desires be known, and work together with people to make it happen. Set up win-wins. No one project is going to be the make or break for your CV so your goodwill on these other projects will probably help you in the future. Either way, your productivity will look great on your application - first author or otherwise.