SGU Failed Two Terms - what’s next?

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Nel.nl

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Hi guys,

I’m at a bit of a stand still. I failed Term 2 and now Term 4 in SGU. I appealed to not be withdrawn and was accepted back in to repeat Term 4 again.

I’m dead set on becoming a dermatologist. Now, what do you guys think would be the best option? I see it as me having 3 options:

1) continue at SGU, kill step 1 step 2, and apply to residencies with two fails. I’m willing to do extra work and research in this scenario over a year or two to try to get into derm in either UK, US, or Canada

2) drop out and re-take my MCAT. Re-apply to medical schools in the US.

3) drop out and take GAMSAT. Re-apply to medical schools in the UK.

I realize this is not an ideal situation. However, my question is specifically what would give me the best chance at being a dermatologist?

Thanks for your input.

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I think best chance would be to buy a lottery ticket. Not just a little measly $10m one, but like a juicy $300m+ one. Win the lottery. Use the money to make donations to SGU until you are allowed to graduate. Then apply to all the Derm programs but be sure to snail-mail your application written out legibly on $100 bills. Also be sure to subtly imply or flat out state that you intend to donate $100m to whatever program matches you. Once you match - and you will - make an initial $25m donation and have the rest scheduled to be delivered each year as your contract is renewed.

Once finished, you will still need to deal with your board exam. Hopefully you still have some lottery money left.
 
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I balked at replying because I'm not quite sure this isn't a troll post, but I'll give the benefit of the doubt since I looked up SGU and they actually do use the terms "Term 2, Term 4, etc." Plus, I'm not touching that abortion thread with a 10 foot pole.

Your chances with Derm in the US are next to nothing right now. You are going to a Carib school, you have multiple failures, you are less likely to make good connections and get meaningful research experience, you are coming in at a time of transitioning in change of Step 1 scoring (Killing step 1 is irrelevant as you get a passing grade which cannot be differentiated from the person who got the lowest passing score possible).

Unless you have some major nepotism going on, you are not in good shape. If you prefer just practicing dermatology opposed to being a physician, I'd say your best bet would be NP (or maybe PA) route.

I can't comment on UK or Canadian systems as I am not knowledgeable about them and how they respond to a Carib school failure.
 
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Hi guys,

I’m at a bit of a stand still. I failed Term 2 and now Term 4 in SGU. I appealed to not be withdrawn and was accepted back in to repeat Term 4 again.
Well, this was so they can bilk you out of another year of tuition
I’m dead set on becoming a dermatologist. Now, what do you guys think would be the best option? I see it as me having 3 options:
Not gonna happen. Case closed.
1) continue at SGU, kill step 1 step 2, and apply to residencies with two fails. I’m willing to do extra work and research in this scenario over a year or two to try to get into derm in either UK, US, or Canada
You just failed two terms in med school. And yet you think you're going to kill Step 1 (which is pas//Fail) and Step 2? Seriously stop the magic thinking
2) drop out and re-take my MCAT. Re-apply to medical schools in the US.
You already have a massive red flag for going to a Carib school and doing poorly. It's time to move on.
 
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To the posters above, I’m looking at what gives me the best chance to get into dermatology. If not dermatology, what are my chances in getting into any other specialty.
 
Let's start with this fact:

Coming from SGU, with a perfect record and stellar board scores, your chances of getting a Derm spot in the US is zero. Looking at SGU's website, if you search you'll see that there is exactly 1 graduate in Derm. That's of the >1000 grads per year.

Lots of people talk about failing preclinical semesters and then "killing" the steps. That rarely happens. S1 is pass/fail now so all you can do is pass it.

Define "any other specialty". If you'd be happy with a community FM spot, you would still have a chance if you pass S1 on your first try, get a decent score on S2, and good clinical evals.
 
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If not dermatology, what are my chances in getting into any other specialty.
As outlined previously, and in case you're not trolling--you never had a chance to match derm coming from SGU, so failing two terms hasn't changed your chances. What we can do is focus on where you might theoretically have a chance, and as per usual @NotAProgDirector has basically addressed everything you need right here:
If you'd be happy with a community FM spot, you would still have a chance if you pass S1 on your first try, get a decent score on S2, and good clinical evals.
What you need to do first is figure out why you didn't pass two preclinical terms. Whether it's a poor study plan, ADHD, unaddressed mental health problems, spreading yourself too thin by trying to do derm research on the side... 100% of your focus for the next 6 months needs to be on your academics. If you can succeed at this, then turn your attention to the USMLEs and then clinical rotations. You are at the Caribbean school with the best connections, so if literally everything goes perfectly from here on out you MAY be able to get a spot in a noncompetitive specialty in a less than desirable location. But if you experience any further setbacks, I really would strongly consider cutting your losses. SGU will likely continue to accept your money as long as you're willing to give it to them, so I would NOT take their letting you continue to mean that you still have a shot at matching.
 
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Most carib students repeat 1+ terms realistically. Passing steps first try with a decent step 2 keeps your prospects the same. Those prospects being applying broadly to a primary care speciality and matching into that. The 0.001% of our people that match derm have both amazing scores, research, and an in with that program.

You didn't kill your chances of derm, you never had one. It's blunt but it's the truth.

Ironically enough, SGU wasn't listed in that new multi billion dollar ruling where dismissed/unmatched students were able to apply for forgiveness so your options are a) continue and hopefully pass b) leave and find something else to do in life or c) win the lottery as someone else pointed out.
 
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Why do you believe you failed? Were you partying too hard, or were the academics just too difficult?
 
Why do you believe you failed? Were you partying too hard, or were the academics just too difficult?
There is a multitude of reasons why students fail. But it can be boiled down to a few

1. Not being able to adapt to the pace and rigors of medical school & unable to find which study method works for them. Yes, med school is hard, but you need to be adaptable and flexible. I've seen students who keep trying their "method" and want to make it work. They're too stubborn to change things, and by the time they want to, it's too late. Also, they won't give up their pride or ego to get the help they need.

Finding a study method is critical and a lot of students aren't able to do that fast enough especially in Semester 1. This is why there's such a high attrition rate during the first semester. We've seen numbers of upward of 40-50% of the class failing. A lot of this is trial and error and you need to figure it out fast or else you're done. Sure, you can scrape by if you haven't found it yet but each subsequent semester will just get harder and harder. It truly never gets easier.

2. Not studying enough/efficiently. This is kinda related to the first one, but I feel like it needs its own category. The saying where med school is like drinking out of a fire hydrant is so true. They throw a lot at you at once. Every exam you take feels like a college final. Imagine how hard the final is. You need to know what will be tested and what won't. You don't have time to go through every single detail on every single slide. After a while, you know how these professors like to ask their questions. For you to be successful, it requires you to already have a studying method that works for you. If you can't, then you'll be left behind. No one is gonna wait for you.

3. Arrogance/Cocky: So, it's known that many of these Caribbean schools enroll a lot of students, but there's a conditional acceptance where you need to pass this 3 month program of anatomy, biology, etc before you are fully accepted. Most of the time, you have to do this 1 semester before your intended start date. At Ross/AUC, it's called Medical Education Readiness Program (MERP) and at SGU, it's called the Charter Foundation Program (CFP). I think you also gotta pay for this program too. There are a lot of students who believe these programs have "fully" prepared them to outperform those who didn't do it. It's true that they have a slight head start on how to study, but once students figure it out, you have no real advantage. Plus, the real semester/term is way harder than what is taught in these programs. They pride themselves in it and believe it's an advantage when in reality it's so minuscule. The exams don't care if you were in these programs or not. If you can't perform, you're out.

4. Culture shock. Medical school is hard but it's harder when you study in a third-world country where you don't know anyone or anything. You're not really studying in a "tropical" land. It's obvious that the beach sides are the more "well off" area but as you move more inland, there's a lot of poverty. Most US and Canadian students are used to a certain lifestyle which is arguably higher than many of these third world countries. Life in the caribbeans isnt equivalent to life in the US or Canada. On top of that, you could lose power, wifi, and water due to any weather related issue at any given point in time. Guess what? These Caribbean schools don't give a shi** if you lost wifi for the past 12 hours and you have an exam tomorrow.

5. Partying/socializing. Yes, this is part of life, but you need to control it. IMO the party life near the beaches is pretty lit. It can get so fun that many will end up neglecting their studies and end up failing. Don't get me wrong, the island life is fun and the beaches are nice af. But, if you don't have self control, you will fail due to the fast pace of med school.

6. Medicine isn't what they thought it was. Honestly, i think this is prob the least likely of them all. But there are a handful who will realize this isnt for them. They don't want to study 12+ hours a day on an island, they dont wanna go through the years of training, etc. Most will end up leaving after they fail or midway.

This points on this list aren't the only reasons why students fail out. They are just the big ones. Keep in mind, these schools will allow you to repeat a semester/term more than twice. It's known that you'll be "dismissed" if you fail X amount of times, but that isnt the case. They know if they allow you to continue, it's more $$ for them.
 
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Why do you believe you failed? Were you partying too hard, or were the academics just too difficult?
Well due to covid, classes were actually online, including anatomy labs. It was very difficult staying focused and motivated, especially since I couldn’t connect with any students as we were 1000 students on a zoom call. Also, I was in a different time zone than my school, so my classes and exams acthally ran until 12 am, which was not an ideal situation. First time I failed was actually because I got covid and was very sick, I developed the worst brain fog, I couldn’t retain any information. Second time I failed was due to family problems I had at home, it was overwhelming that I could not keep up with the school work. If anything, my first 2 years of med school were super isolating because it was online, it never felt like a school to begin with.
 
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Thanks for clarifying because it seemed most of the reactions above were fairly presumptuous if that's the right term. I don't think anything is totally out of reach, but things are more difficult.
  1. What was your MCAT score?
  2. What was your undergrad major and GPA?
 
Well due to covid, classes were actually online, including anatomy labs. It was very difficult staying focused and motivated, especially since I couldn’t connect with any students as we were 1000 students on a zoom call. Also, I was in a different time zone than my school, so my classes and exams acthally ran until 12 am, which was not an ideal situation. First time I failed was actually because I got covid and was very sick, I developed the worst brain fog, I couldn’t retain any information. Second time I failed was due to family problems I had at home, it was overwhelming that I could not keep up with the school work. If anything, my first 2 years of med school were super isolating because it was online, it never felt like a school to begin with.
I have one friend who left a Caribbean school and subsequently got into a US DO program. It took three years of an SMP and a MCAT retake, super strong letters of rec, and a hell of a good explanation as to why he left his Caribbean institute. Keep in mind that he passed the four terms that he was in school. You have an uphill battle. I don’t want to ever say anything is impossible; there may be that one school out there who is willing to give you a shot but understand, you have a STEEP uphill climb. You may have better odds of getting a new career field… Sorry, but that’s reality.
 
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There is a multitude of reasons why students fail. But it can be boiled down to a few

1. Not being able to adapt to the pace and rigors of medical school & unable to find which study method works for them. Yes, med school is hard, but you need to be adaptable and flexible. I've seen students who keep trying their "method" and want to make it work. They're too stubborn to change things, and by the time they want to, it's too late. Also, they won't give up their pride or ego to get the help they need.

Finding a study method is critical and a lot of students aren't able to do that fast enough especially in Semester 1. This is why there's such a high attrition rate during the first semester. We've seen numbers of upward of 40-50% of the class failing. A lot of this is trial and error and you need to figure it out fast or else you're done. Sure, you can scrape by if you haven't found it yet but each subsequent semester will just get harder and harder. It truly never gets easier.

2. Not studying enough/efficiently. This is kinda related to the first one, but I feel like it needs its own category. The saying where med school is like drinking out of a fire hydrant is so true. They throw a lot at you at once. Every exam you take feels like a college final. Imagine how hard the final is. You need to know what will be tested and what won't. You don't have time to go through every single detail on every single slide. After a while, you know how these professors like to ask their questions. For you to be successful, it requires you to already have a studying method that works for you. If you can't, then you'll be left behind. No one is gonna wait for you.

3. Arrogance/Cocky: So, it's known that many of these Caribbean schools enroll a lot of students, but there's a conditional acceptance where you need to pass this 3 month program of anatomy, biology, etc before you are fully accepted. Most of the time, you have to do this 1 semester before your intended start date. At Ross/AUC, it's called Medical Education Readiness Program (MERP) and at SGU, it's called the Charter Foundation Program (CFP). I think you also gotta pay for this program too. There are a lot of students who believe these programs have "fully" prepared them to outperform those who didn't do it. It's true that they have a slight head start on how to study, but once students figure it out, you have no real advantage. Plus, the real semester/term is way harder than what is taught in these programs. They pride themselves in it and believe it's an advantage when in reality it's so minuscule. The exams don't care if you were in these programs or not. If you can't perform, you're out.

4. Culture shock. Medical school is hard but it's harder when you study in a third-world country where you don't know anyone or anything. You're not really studying in a "tropical" land. It's obvious that the beach sides are the more "well off" area but as you move more inland, there's a lot of poverty. Most US and Canadian students are used to a certain lifestyle which is arguably higher than many of these third world countries. Life in the caribbeans isnt equivalent to life in the US or Canada. On top of that, you could lose power, wifi, and water due to any weather related issue at any given point in time. Guess what? These Caribbean schools don't give a shi** if you lost wifi for the past 12 hours and you have an exam tomorrow.

5. Partying/socializing. Yes, this is part of life, but you need to control it. IMO the party life near the beaches is pretty lit. It can get so fun that many will end up neglecting their studies and end up failing. Don't get me wrong, the island life is fun and the beaches are nice af. But, if you don't have self control, you will fail due to the fast pace of med school.

6. Medicine isn't what they thought it was. Honestly, i think this is prob the least likely of them all. But there are a handful who will realize this isnt for them. They don't want to study 12+ hours a day on an island, they dont wanna go through the years of training, etc. Most will end up leaving after they fail or midway.

This points on this list aren't the only reasons why students fail out. They are just the big ones. Keep in mind, these schools will allow you to repeat a semester/term more than twice. It's known that you'll be "dismissed" if you fail X amount of times, but that isnt the case. They know if they allow you to continue, it's more $$ for them.
There's a 7th reason, and it is also one that contains a very hard truth. That is many of these students not all do not have the mental Firepower that it takes to handle medical school.
 
Well due to covid, classes were actually online, including anatomy labs. It was very difficult staying focused and motivated, especially since I couldn’t connect with any students as we were 1000 students on a zoom call. Also, I was in a different time zone than my school, so my classes and exams acthally ran until 12 am, which was not an ideal situation. First time I failed was actually because I got covid and was very sick, I developed the worst brain fog, I couldn’t retain any information. Second time I failed was due to family problems I had at home, it was overwhelming that I could not keep up with the school work. If anything, my first 2 years of med school were super isolating because it was online, it never felt like a school to begin with.
Ah, you illustrate an eighth reason as to why students do poorly in medical school. A lack of coping skills and support systems when life comes and smacks them upside the head with a 2x4.

Op, can you Enlighten us as to why you did not take a leave of absence when these Unfortunate Events occurred? Were you leaving allowed to take a leave of absence?
 
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There's a 7th reason, and it is also one that contains a very hard truth. That is many of these students not all do not have the mental Firepower that it takes to handle medical school.

Do you have the mental firepower that it takes to handle medical school?
 
Do you have the mental firepower that it takes to handle medical school?
No, medical school would have killed me! Fortunately all I have to do is teach medical students.

But stop projecting, I wasn't talking about you just telling you that there is a reality that there are only so many people who can handle medical school
 
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No, medical school would have killed me! Fortunately all I have to do is teach medical students.

But stop projecting, I wasn't talking about you just telling you that there is a reality that there are only so many people who can handle medical school
This. In the year and a week that I’ve been in medical school, I’ve seen more than a few people, some friends, drop out because they couldn’t handle medical school or some aspect of the training. So many of us come into this beast wide eyed without any idea of how draining it can be and from what I hear, some of the Caribbean schools can be absolutely devastating to the psyche. Good idea for everyone to consider if they have the mental, physical, and spiritual firepower to handle medical school.
 
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This. In the year and a week that I’ve been in medical school, I’ve seen more than a few people, some friends, drop out because they couldn’t handle medical school or some aspect of the training. So many of us come into this beast wide eyed without any idea of how draining it can be and from what I hear, some of the Caribbean schools can be absolutely devastating to the psyche. Good idea for everyone to consider if they have the mental, physical, and spiritual firepower to handle medical school.
My school has been very, very fortunate in that very few of our students historically didn't "get" medical school. Almost all of the dismissals or withdrawals have been due to mental or physical health issues.

I can see where academically weaker students will end up in the newer schools, as they will be desperate for warm bodies to fill seats.

About a third of our OMSIs come in thinking think that the way they studied for UG will work in med school. All but a tiny few of those get disabused of that notion after the first exam block!
 
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Your focus right now should be on trying to get through SGU after 2 failed terms NOT on your chances of matching derm. The school has given you another chance to finish but you aren't out of the woods yet. You have half of med school left and many hiccups can still happen along the way. If you fail another term you likely have 0 chances of anything. If I were you I would focus all my energies on just trying to get through and match whatever you are competitive for when that time comes and if you are dead set on derm doing a second residency in it (yes I know people who have done IM or peds then matched derm afterwards -). Longer road and still not likely but it can happen. Focus now on getting through term 4.
 
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You failed two terms in a Caribbean school, then you said you are dead set to dermatology, Even a US med school student does not say that he/she is dead set to dermatology without failing any semester. There is a lot of work that needs to be done besides step scores, research/publication, and connection to name a few. Who gave you the idea to say that is what I want to know??
 
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