Sexism in Medicine

[Burnted_out]

I don’t think gender is the reason OP is bad at recognizing the math, but they are nonetheless

Me being a man doesn’t negate the math

It's not about math man. If you say I'm doctor so and so, there should be no confusion. When you are a woman apparently there still is.
Me the other day: Hi, I'm doctor X, nice to meet you I'm the X physician.
Patient: Oh! There was someone else here - one of those nurses who are almost like doctors - what do you call them?
Me: Nurses.
Patient: Oh so you are a nurse?
Me: No I'm the doctor.
*Facepalm*

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

It's not about math man. If you say I'm doctor so and so, there should be no confusion. When you are a woman apparently there still is.
Me the other day: Hi, I'm doctor X, nice to meet you I'm the X physician.
Patient: Oh! There was someone else here - one of those nurses who are almost like doctors - what do you call them?
Me: Nurses.
Patient: Oh so you are a nurse?
Me: No I'm the doctor.
*Facepalm*

That sounds more like midlevel confusion, especially if said midlevel introduced themselves as a doctor or didn't correct the patient if they called them Doctor Midlevel.

 

[Burnted_out]

That sounds more like midlevel confusion, especially if said midlevel introduced themselves as a doctor or didn't correct the patient if they called them Doctor Midlevel.

No our midlevels represent themselves appropriately and don’t have delusions of grandeur. I get a lot of the you are too young to be a doctor thing too. I should start keeping track of this.

 

[Moose A Moose]

Why is it so frequent that when a young, small female physician walks into a patient room, there is an assumption that it's the nurse? Today I walked into this patient's room, he's on the phone and tells the person I'll call you back, the nurse is here. Really?

Another woman I saw seeing and saw several times, tells her daughter when I come in, oh this is the doctor's nurse. WTH? Yes I know what many will say, it does not matter, bla bl a bla but yes it does. I have spent just as much if not more time training to be called a nurse. It's so frustrating. Why is there such a ridiculous assumption? Is everyone sexist? Demented? Simple? What is it?

Because they’re laymen and an overwhelming majority of women in healthcare are nurses. I don’t understand why you’re so confused. Are you the one that’s simple? It’s your duty to professionally correct them.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

No our midlevels represent themselves appropriately and don’t have delusions of grandeur. I get a lot of the you are too young to be a doctor thing too. I should start keeping track of this.

I also get that one about every other day or so and I'm 35, balding, and 6'6.

 

[deleted480308]

It's not about math man. If you say I'm doctor so and so, there should be no confusion. When you are a woman apparently there still is.
Me the other day: Hi, I'm doctor X, nice to meet you I'm the X physician.
Patient: Oh! There was someone else here - one of those nurses who are almost like doctors - what do you call them?
Me: Nurses.
Patient: Oh so you are a nurse?
Me: No I'm the doctor.
*Facepalm*

1. That person sounds more ignorant about health care than sexist
2. This is a bait and switch from the OP where the implication was that people assume you are a nurse without introduction prior

 

[Burnted_out]

1. That person sounds more ignorant about health care than sexist
2. This is a bait and switch from the OP where the implication was that people assume you are a nurse without introduction prior

It’s both - without prior introduction and at times even with prior introduction.

 

[deleted480308]

It’s both - without prior introduction and at times even with prior introduction.

And you don’t happen to also notice incompetence in those that cannot comprehend your stated title?

 

[rokshana]

Certainly not going to say it hasn’t happened but really hasn’t happened so often for it to be that big an issue...many times it’s more “who are you again?” Mostly because they have had a bazillion people come in and out and they are just feeling so crappy that they can’t keep track.

And I dont wear a white coat...just a badge that says doctor which I show to the pt...I wear it lower so the pt can actually read it instead of up on my chest.
And while I dress up when I’m a consultant, I’m usually in a turtleneck/sweater/sweatpant(nice ones) on my nocturnist shift...

And it’s sad the day they stop saying you are too young to be a doctor...

 

[vhawk]

Again, it is not actually possible for patients to be sexist against their doctors. The doctors have the power in the relationship, the patients are vulnerable and helpless. They, by definition, cannot be sexist

Wake up. Recognize your privilege

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Again, it is not actually possible for patients to be sexist against their doctors. The doctors have the power in the relationship, the patients are vulnerable and helpless. They, by definition, cannot be sexist

Wake up. Recognize your privilege

what about the patients, most notably in OB, that refuse to see male providers

 

[NicMouse64]

what about the patients, most notably in OB, that refuse to see male providers

Don't point out something logical like that, it'll cause cognitive dissonance! I know a few m4s who enjoyed OB a lot but didn't want to deal with the fact that their patients would prefer female providers. So they decided to do a different specialty.

 

[deleted480308]

what about the patients, most notably in OB, that refuse to see male providers

or obgyn offices that advertise an all female staff?

it's all sexual discrimination. The govt shouldn't be allowed, private people shouldn't be barred by govt

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

or obgyn offices that advertise an all female staff?

it's all sexual discrimination. The govt shouldn't be allowed, private people shouldn't be barred by govt

I'm not arguing whether such things should or should not be allowed (they should), merely suggesting that such things could be considered sexist.

 

[deleted480308]

I'm not arguing whether such things should or should not be allowed (they should), merely suggesting that such things could be considered sexist.

I'm agreeing with you that they can be sexist

 

[evilbooyaa]

Well this thread has taken a turn since inception

 

[NITRAS]

Yes, if you work in a hospital and you are a woman, someone is going to think you are a nurse. That is real life.

I am happy that I don't have to deal with this stereotype. I would give a little grace to patients who haven't figured out the code of who the heck is who. At our hospital, RNs wear navy, LVN's bright blue, RTs grey, phlebotomist red, CNAs bright teal, and transport tech wear blue button down with grey slacks. Most surgery residents wear those cheap blue scrubs w/o white coat. IM often wear white coal, sometimes not. Most staff wear nice scrubs or nice business casual. Hospitalist wear whatever color is there. A patient who gets admitted through the ED sees at least 5 residents/staff before me, the attending, sees them. Plus probably 10 support staff (nurses from different floors, transport tech ect).

Now for my opinion. I don't think most patient's are trying to be rude or degrade you. I think you can choose to be a annoyed and just assume that they are being sexist. I might suggest you find something else to get offended by. There are so many things out there, and patients are going to continue to call you nurse. Again, my opinion. May change over the next few decades, but I doubt it.

I had a nurse confuse me for family a few days ago. While I wasn't wearing a white coat. . . . I did have a stethoscope around my neck and wearing scrubs. The daughter's response was to say I was her "cuz." It was rather funny.

 

[vhawk]

I'm not arguing whether such things should or should not be allowed (they should), merely suggesting that such things could be considered sexist.

Nope, sexism is bias+power, and the patients are the powerless one in the dynamic, ergo sexism isnt possible.

Doctors have massive structural, insitutional privilege compared to patients, historically

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Nope, sexism is bias+power, and the patients are the powerless one in the dynamic, ergo sexism isnt possible.

Doctors have massive structural, insitutional privilege compared to patients, historically

You're being sarcastic with that first part, right?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I'm agreeing with you that they can be sexist

I know, that's why my original post wasn't directed at you.

And if you look at my post right above this, you'll see the problem.

 

[LucidSplash]

Maybe we can agree that the basic word “sexism” isn’t nuanced enough to differentiate between the different things people are describing in this thread.

There are those patients who are oblivious to scrub color codes, and usually oblivious to their own medical problems, and who refer to all the female medical personnel as “nurse” despite other contextual clues and even if someone has introduced themselves as Dr. X. In my experience these people tend to be middle age or older and more often Caucasian. They have an older worldview that doesn’t match the current state of medicine. They also tend to be apologetic when corrected, even though they might make the same mistake again the next day. These people might be “sexist” but I don’t see it as a malignant sexism. It’s just that reality doesn’t often match up with what their mind expects. I don’t get wound up about these people. It wasn’t all that long ago that women were actually rare in medicine. If their PCP is a man or they have an NP as a PCP who is a woman and they haven’t been in a hospital all that much, they just don’t have the exposure that would change their mental image from whatever doctor show they watched in the 80s.

Then there are those people who will insist they haven’t seen a doctor and when you tell them that you ARE their doctor, they reply “but you’re a girl” (happened to a friend of mine in residency). That want a second opinion from man. That try to antagonize you by calling you nurse with a nasty grin on their face. I don’t get wound up about these people either because they’ll be dead sooner than I will.

My great-grandmother went to medical school and wanted to be an obstetric surgeon but was told “surgery isn’t for women.” She performed c-sections as an FM doc but wasn’t allowed to do hysterectomies even though her male colleagues had privileges to do so. As a student, her professors had to sneak into her woman-only med school to teach them or they’d get kicked out of the AMA (which was a big deal at the time). She had to give up practice when she got married.

40-something years ago in the 1970s there were only 10 women in my favorite Aunt’s medical school class. 40 in the entire school. Same numbers of African-Americans. Because quotas. As a resident they made her put a sign on the call room door that said “girl sleeping in here,” called her “Beth” while they called one another Dr. X and Dr. Y, and didn’t let her interview for her first-choice specialty because “it wasn’t a specialty for women.” She didn’t stop working when she got married and had kids even though her mother wanted her to. She’s internationally renowned in her specialty.

Two-thirds of my med school class of 160 were women. Of the 14 of us that went into general surgery, 8 were women and no one said boo to me about it except one crusty old urologist where I did my residency and he was intoxicated at the time. Not once have I felt unsupported or steered away from a specific path because of my gender.

Life isn’t perfect but I think we forget how far we’ve come. In another generation I think all this “accidentally calling female doctors nurses” stuff will just be a distant memory too.

 

[Goro]

Why is it so frequent that when a young, small female physician walks into a patient room, there is an assumption that it's the nurse? Today I walked into this patient's room, he's on the phone and tells the person I'll call you back, the nurse is here. Really?

Another woman I saw seeing and saw several times, tells her daughter when I come in, oh this is the doctor's nurse. WTH? Yes I know what many will say, it does not matter, bla bl a bla but yes it does. I have spent just as much if not more time training to be called a nurse. It's so frustrating. Why is there such a ridiculous assumption? Is everyone sexist? Demented? Simple? What is it?

What you're discussing is a societal issue, not in Medicine per se.

Answer: Because our society has a fixation on assigned historical gender roles?

I suggest that you stop taking it personally, and simply educate the patient as you would on smoking cessation or sugar intake.

 

[Goro]

Thanks for mansplaining that to us --
I guess we probably should have been able to figure that out if only we weren't so bad at math...?

The OP apparently wasn't getting it.

 

[Goro]

Well this thread has taken a turn since inception

How long before it gets banished to SDN's root cellar, the SPF???

 

[vhawk]

Nope, sexism is bias+power, and the patients are the powerless one in the dynamic, ergo sexism isnt possible.

Doctors have massive structural, insitutional privilege compared to patients, historically

Maybe im just being ideologically consistent

 

[Goro]

Maybe we can agree that the basic word “sexism” isn’t nuanced enough to differentiate between the different things people are describing in this thread.

I agree.

In hindsight, what the OP was rightly complaining about was prejudice. As in "pre-judging"

Sexism is:
The female staff we'll pay 25% less than the males.

OR
Hire the guy for the new position; he won't get pregnant on us.

 

[evilbooyaa]

How long before it gets banished to SDN's root cellar, the SPF???

SPF has been nuked after mod/admin discussion, so never.

 

[Burnted_out]

What you're discussing is a societal issue, not in Medicine per se.

Answer: Because our society has a fixation on assigned historical gender roles?

I suggest that you stop taking it personally, and simply educate the patient as you would on smoking cessation or sugar intake.

Well it really gets old honestly. I get hit on frequently by crusty old patients, get called nurse, told I’m too young, attempts have been made by staff members to call me by first name until I’m like umm no it’s Dr, today I was called. “Little girl” by some random woman who was a friend of a patient who commented on the size of my hands, I am asked if I am a nurse practitioner, I am told I am too attractive to be a doctor, etc. my husband mocks me and tells me that I look like I’m 19 still which clearly I’m not. Doesn’t help that I am also Hispanic and 5 feet tall, one of the few women on staff at the hospital I mostly work at, otherwise it is mostly a bunch of old white and Indian male doctors. It is frustrating. *sigh* I am seriously thinking of just setting up shop in my own practice in a few years and just doing admin stuff. Sure it would be great if it was not annoying me but it stings every time.

 

[Crayola227]

What's frustrating is people are acting like this isn't a real phenomenon, and it shouldn't be striking.

I know male ob/gyns deal with this stuff too.

Why is it so left field?

I worked really hard to be a doc, and one tiny little perk to it is a feeling of pride and recognition. When I come into the room and everyone immediately assumes I'm a nurse NO MATTER WHAT I DO simply because I have tits on my chest, I mean, why should that feel good?

On the other hand, it's kinda nice to puff up and correct people professionally, as was suggested. "No, I'm your doctor. But it gets confusing with all the people in and out who's who." Yes, that's right, I'm a girl and I'm a doctor!!! Rar! Yay. So I'm OK to roll with the faux pas. People don't mean ill, but ffs I am most definitely facing some social conditioning that is NOT my friend.

But, it's still like, whoa, social conditioning is real. What is up that people expect women to be nurses and not doctors. Please, answer this and tell me that this expectation has no negative origin or consequences or implications.

I don't have issue that people make this mistake. As I said, in some ways I take a bit of pride in correcting people, actually. As said, I think one issue is mostly, how do people respond when you correct them nicely?

People apologize because they get it isn't rad. OTOH, quite a few people take huge offence to being corrected nicely. That's all a pretty common ego defence type response to being corrected in some social situations and embarrassment or faux pas.

But what are you missing here, is that this shyte happens, it happens because you have breasts, and it's annoying as hell, ESPECIALLY when somehow you're the bad guy here because you're a woman and insisting that you are who you are on the health care team, which happens to be high in the decision-making tree.

I mean, the way male ob/gyns are treated is real, and I don't try to tell those dudes it isn't sexism they're experiencing. Not even that women for various reasons may not feel comfortable are being sexist. Just other stereotypes, like that they're perverts, they're gay, they're overly hetero (?), they just want to control women's organs, etc etc etc, just because they're men dealing with something that we have some idea they're "not suited to" because of gender.

 

[Burnted_out]

The OP apparently wasn't getting it.

Umm ok I guess I am stupid too. I guess I should go work on my countless *nursing* notes now.

 

[Crayola227]

This has nothing to do with people meaning to be jerks.

There are unconscious messages and beliefs that people learn, that has contributed to these sorts of expectations people have about the world and what people are doing in it.

 

[vhawk]

What's frustrating is people are acting like this isn't a real phenomenon, and it shouldn't be striking.

I know male ob/gyns deal with this stuff too.

Why is it so left field?

I worked really hard to be a doc, and one tiny little perk to it is a feeling of pride and recognition. When I come into the room and everyone immediately assumes I'm a nurse NO MATTER WHAT I DO simply because I have tits on my chest, I mean, why should that feel good?

On the other hand, it's kinda nice to puff up and correct people professionally, as was suggested. "No, I'm your doctor. But it gets confusing with all the people in and out who's who." Yes, that's right, I'm a girl and I'm a doctor!!! Rar! Yay. So I'm OK to roll with the faux pas. People don't mean ill, but ffs I am most definitely facing some social conditioning that is NOT my friend.

But, it's still like, whoa, social conditioning is real. What is up that people expect women to be nurses and not doctors. Please, answer this and tell me that this expectation has no negative origin or consequences or implications.

I don't have issue that people make this mistake. As I said, in some ways I take a bit of pride in correcting people, actually. As said, I think one issue is mostly, how do people respond when you correct them nicely?

People apologize because they get it isn't rad. OTOH, quite a few people take huge offence to being corrected nicely. That's all a pretty common ego defence type response to being corrected in some social situations and embarrassment or faux pas.

But what are you missing here, is that this shyte happens, it happens because you have breasts, and it's annoying as hell, ESPECIALLY when somehow you're the bad guy here because you're a woman and insisting that you are who you are on the health care team, which happens to be high in the decision-making tree.

I mean, the way male ob/gyns are treated is real, and I don't try to tell those dudes it isn't sexism they're experiencing. Not even that women for various reasons may not feel comfortable are being sexist. Just other stereotypes, like that they're perverts, they're gay, they're overly hetero (?), they just want to control women's organs, etc etc etc, just because they're men dealing with something that we have some idea they're "not suited to" because of gender.

To be fair, im not pretending or acting like it isnt happening, im simply giving another possible explanation for it, one that requires you assume the best of your patients rather than assume the worst. Assuming the best isnt always correct, of course.

At least thats what im doing in my serious posts. In my less serious posts, im pointing out that all of the female doctors who suffer from this are in fact extremely privileged, have a massive power dynamic over their patients, who are a vulnerable population, and in OTHER contexts, this would make it quite obvious and clear (to some, usually including most feminists) that the female doctors (again, who have massive privilege) should not complain or try to attack or criticize their patients, who are vulnerable and victims and disempowered and therefore cannot actually be in the wrong.

This is why intersectionalism is so hard!

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Well it really gets old honestly. I get hit on frequently by crusty old patients, get called nurse, told I’m too young, attempts have been made by staff members to call me by first name until I’m like umm no it’s Dr, today I was called. “Little girl” by some random woman who was a friend of a patient who commented on the size of my hands, I am asked if I am a nurse practitioner, I am told I am too attractive to be a doctor, etc. my husband mocks me and tells me that I look like I’m 19 still which clearly I’m not. Doesn’t help that I am also Hispanic and 5 feet tall, one of the few women on staff at the hospital I mostly work at, otherwise it is mostly a bunch of old white and Indian male doctors. It is frustrating. *sigh* I am seriously thinking of just setting up shop in my own practice in a few years and just doing admin stuff. Sure it would be great if it was not annoying me but it stings every time.

Honestly outpatient does help with this. My wife was a hospitalist for a few years and had similar issues. Since going to outpatient, its almost never a problem anymore.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

To be fair, im not pretending or acting like it isnt happening, im simply giving another possible explanation for it, one that requires you assume the best of your patients rather than assume the worst. Assuming the best isnt always correct, of course.

At least thats what im doing in my serious posts. In my less serious posts, im pointing out that all of the female doctors who suffer from this are in fact extremely privileged, have a massive power dynamic over their patients, who are a vulnerable population, and in OTHER contexts, this would make it quite obvious and clear (to some, usually including most feminists) that the female doctors (again, who have massive privilege) should not complain or try to attack or criticize their patients, who are vulnerable and victims and disempowered and therefore cannot actually be in the wrong.

This is why intersectionalism is so hard!

I see what's going on here, you're thinking several layers too deep for me. I'm FM, we do shallow and broad.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

SPF has been nuked after mod/admin discussion, so never.

So wait, does this mean in exchange for hiding us in the cellar no more garbage threads will be moved to SPF (which has enough garbage threads already, thank you very much)?

 

[Burnted_out]

Honestly outpatient does help with this. My wife was a hospitalist for a few years and had similar issues. Since going to outpatient, its almost never a problem anymore.

Yes, I agree. I will be doing interventional pain fellowship and doing outpatient. I am hoping that having my own patients and them knowing me will create less issues. *sigh*

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Yes, I agree. I will be doing interventional pain fellowship and doing outpatient. I am hoping that having my own patients and them knowing me will create less issues. *sigh*

Ordinarily I'd say yes, but pain management...

 

[killerleaf]

During my hubby's last hospitalization, (he was here for three days with an abcessed stitch from a surgery 9 years ago)...In one day, (from midnight to midnight) I counted 6 RN's, in navy blue scrubs, but 2 had on white coats as they were doing "admin" type things; 3 CNA's, in teal scrubs; 2 EM residents, they were in navy blue scrubs, but I recognized them as residents (I deal with onboarding of new residents); 2 EVS personnel in light blue shirts and dark pants; 2 lab people (one to draw what was in the drain and one to draw blood) both in red scrubs and white coats; 6 medical students in business casual and short white coats during rounds; 5 residents in light blue scrubs (OR) during rounds; 1 resident in light blue (OR) scrubs and a white coat; and 1 attending. In a polo shirt and khakis. SOOO...my point is that we had an advantage, because I knew most of the residents who came in, by name if not personally because I work here. Half the time, when they came in, they were moving so fast it was hard to hear names and titles clearly. I usually had to ask them to repeat themselves, because my dearly beloved is hard of hearing. There was not a standardized "uniform", and the white coat was misleading. Plus, the "lead" resident on rounds did not have a coat on...just the scrubs. Someone who did not have insider knowledge of who these people were could get confused easily, and call the doctor the nurse, or vice versa. without trying to be mean or rude.

 

[Burnted_out]

Ordinarily I'd say yes, but pain management...

Full of men attendings, but I think patients tend to stick with the same provider. I think I should have just not gone into Medicine. Would have been much easier. No one tells you these things when one is applying, going through med school, etc. Sigh

 

[Burnted_out]

During my hubby's last hospitalization, (he was here for three days with an abcessed stitch from a surgery 9 years ago)...In one day, (from midnight to midnight) I counted 6 RN's, in navy blue scrubs, but 2 had on white coats as they were doing "admin" type things; 3 CNA's, in teal scrubs; 2 EM residents, they were in navy blue scrubs, but I recognized them as residents (I deal with onboarding of new residents); 2 EVS personnel in light blue shirts and dark pants; 2 lab people (one to draw what was in the drain and one to draw blood) both in red scrubs and white coats; 6 medical students in business casual and short white coats during rounds; 5 residents in light blue scrubs (OR) during rounds; 1 resident in light blue (OR) scrubs and a white coat; and 1 attending. In a polo shirt and khakis. SOOO...my point is that we had an advantage, because I knew most of the residents who came in, by name if not personally because I work here. Half the time, when they came in, they were moving so fast it was hard to hear names and titles clearly. I usually had to ask them to repeat themselves, because my dearly beloved is hard of hearing. There was not a standardized "uniform", and the white coat was misleading. Plus, the "lead" resident on rounds did not have a coat on...just the scrubs. Someone who did not have insider knowledge of who these people were could get confused easily, and call the doctor the nurse, or vice versa. without trying to be mean or rude.

Sure there are lots of people coming in an out of every patient's room all day long. But again it's simple - when someone says I am doctor X, and they are confused, or look at you like you are crazy or something like that, or make comments, or keep calling you nurse, etc. it's disheartening.

 

[Crayola227]

To be fair, im not pretending or acting like it isnt happening, im simply giving another possible explanation for it, one that requires you assume the best of your patients rather than assume the worst. Assuming the best isnt always correct, of course.

At least thats what im doing in my serious posts. In my less serious posts, im pointing out that all of the female doctors who suffer from this are in fact extremely privileged, have a massive power dynamic over their patients, who are a vulnerable population, and in OTHER contexts, this would make it quite obvious and clear (to some, usually including most feminists) that the female doctors (again, who have massive privilege) should not complain or try to attack or criticize their patients, who are vulnerable and victims and disempowered and therefore cannot actually be in the wrong.

This is why intersectionalism is so hard!

Oh, I completely agree with the whole aspect about privilege.

And I don't consider someone a jerk until I correct them nicely 3 times in one 10 min rounding visit, AND make a big show of writing my name in big letters on their white board that I am their doctor. Only the next day told I was fired and in trouble with the team because someone went in their room who they "guessed" was the doctor, but how dare she, she didn't properly identify herself as the doctor to them. I can't actually remember being more angry at a patient/family.

Here's the kicker. It was the daughter. A woman. So I'm not acting like these socially conditioned issues are a male vs female thing.

I don't think it's good enough to say, "Well, you're a white female in a position of power, so you don't get to complain about this." How is that not a glass ceiling?

I would say most physicians are ambitious by nature. Why shouldn't I get bent out of shape anywhere I hit a glass ceiling? Because I'm so privileged?

This gets into way maybe it is somewhat galling. Like, I never really dealt with this sort of prejudice until I got to a certain point. Like, you think you've done everything a girl can do to show she is just as capable as a man in all the ways that seem reasonable (I won't pretend I could beat anyone at arm wrestling right now), and then it's like, well, that didn't overcome this prejudice out there in the world. I thought it was fake. I thought I had risen above it. I thought if it was there, I would somehow avoid it, because of my "privilege" - the one I earned.

Because you're right about patients being in the one down position. And I gotta use any one up I have for them. That said, you're somewhat wrong because my "privilege" as a physician was earned. It's not undeserved in my opinion, for the profession.

 

[Crayola227]

I read this great paper on social action and change in college.

Basically, it was talking about the prejudice in being black or in being a woman. Let's talk some intersectionalism.

That black women went to seek allies in white women during the time of the Civil War and trying to abolish slavery. The white women, were basically like, how is this my problem? Because of their white privilege. And it was pointed out, hey, we're sisters. You think because I'm beaten, but live in the shed out back, and you're in the house in bed with the master, that you've got it so much better. But guess what? He beats both of us. So that basically makes me the bitch (as in female dog in my usage) he keeps outside, and you the one that sleeps at the foot of the bed of master. And yeah, some of the "privileged" white women saw the issue and became involved.

Basically, just because you're in a certain position of privilege, doesn't mean that these issues are "not your problem." Being a physician and not feeling the prejudice until I hit that ceiling, doesn't make it OK, and doesn't mean I have to just be content with "how lucky I am" to be recognized as a nurse at all.

Just because I'm essentially the white woman at home asleep in a comfy bed, doesn't mean that these are not issues for me to be concerned with. I'm still a woman.

 

[Crayola227]

Full of men attendings, but I think patients tend to stick with the same provider. I think I should have just not gone into Medicine. Would have been much easier. No one tells you these things when one is applying, going through med school, etc. Sigh

I don't agree. I expected to be mistook for a nurse. I just never expected people to be so nasty to me when I corrected them.

 

[Crayola227]

To be fair, im not pretending or acting like it isnt happening, im simply giving another possible explanation for it, one that requires you assume the best of your patients rather than assume the worst. Assuming the best isnt always correct, of course.

At least thats what im doing in my serious posts. In my less serious posts, im pointing out that all of the female doctors who suffer from this are in fact extremely privileged, have a massive power dynamic over their patients, who are a vulnerable population, and in OTHER contexts, this would make it quite obvious and clear (to some, usually including most feminists) that the female doctors (again, who have massive privilege) should not complain or try to attack or criticize their patients, who are vulnerable and victims and disempowered and therefore cannot actually be in the wrong.

This is why intersectionalism is so hard!

To be clear, I am not thinking the worst of my patients.

I am just struck by some of the prejudices out there. And hell, inside me too. I think we still have room to go on working these things out as a society. Like, actually becoming cognizant.

Until then, I'll get mistook for a nurse, people will marvel that a woman is a doctor, I will be annoyed, life continues.

 

[LucidSplash]

OP, I get it. I’m 5’3” and female. I went through all of residency with people asking me how old I was after I introduced myself as doctor. Sometimes I’d hear them asking the attending as I left the room. Routinely I’d get “WOW you don’t look old enough to be a doctor” and sometimes congratulations on my achievements. I chose to take these things as compliments.

Now I’m 37 and while people no longer tell me I look too young to be a doctor they still ask how old I am and say I don’t look it. As an exhausted PGY-9, I’ll take compliments wherever I can get them.

Some day soon people will stop telling me I look young and I’ll be sad.

Of all the things to get upset about, I’d say put this one really low on the priority list. It may feel like a slight but most of the time it just doesn’t fit with a person’s social conditioning. You’re helping the next generation just like my aunt and grandmother helped us.

 

[Burnted_out]

OP, I get it. I’m 5’3” and female. I went through all of residency with people asking me how old I was after I introduced myself as doctor. Sometimes I’d hear them asking the attending as I left the room. Routinely I’d get “WOW you don’t look old enough to be a doctor” and sometimes congratulations on my achievements. I chose to take these things as compliments.

Now I’m 37 and while people no longer tell me I look too young to be a doctor they still ask how old I am and say I don’t look it. As an exhausted PGY-9, I’ll take compliments wherever I can get them.

Some day soon people will stop telling me I look young and I’ll be sad.

Of all the things to get upset about, I’d say put this one really low on the priority list. It may feel like a slight but most of the time it just doesn’t fit with a person’s social conditioning. You’re helping the next generation just like my aunt and grandmother helped us.

I’m 38 but look probably in my mid 20’s and I am very petite. Again - *sigh*

 

[Cryc_to_the_point]

I'm a woman and a minor inconvenience occurred in my life... the patriarchy!

Patients don't know all kinds of stuff, why on earth do you think they'd be aware of your exact profession? If anything than everyone walking around in white coats and ensuring you heard they're a doctor of some flavor.

 

[Burnted_out]

OP, I get it. I’m 5’3” and female. I went through all of residency with people asking me how old I was after I introduced myself as doctor. Sometimes I’d hear them asking the attending as I left the room. Routinely I’d get “WOW you don’t look old enough to be a doctor” and sometimes congratulations on my achievements. I chose to take these things as compliments.

Now I’m 37 and while people no longer tell me I look too young to be a doctor they still ask how old I am and say I don’t look it. As an exhausted PGY-9, I’ll take compliments wherever I can get them.

Some day soon people will stop telling me I look young and I’ll be sad.

Of all the things to get upset about, I’d say put this one really low on the priority list. It may feel like a slight but most of the time it just doesn’t fit with a person’s social conditioning. You’re helping the next generation just like my aunt and grandmother helped us.

Are you really a PGY 9 btw? Just curious. What specialty?

 

[LucidSplash]

I’m 38 but look probably in my mid 20’s and I am very petite. Again - *sigh*

Yeah this is something that isn’t about medicine per se. It would probably be great if society in general weren’t so focused on a woman’s youth/appearance. This happens to women in all fields, because it’s considered appropriate for strangers to comment on it for some reason. But really, it’s a very small thing in contrast to outright harassment and gender pay gap, minority incarceration/lethal experiences with law enforcement, yada yada. Really most people don’t make these comments to be offensive they are complimenting you. I get that you’d rather they not comment but it’s a pick your battles kind of thing. The “young” comments just aren’t worth the emotional energy when there are other more important battles to fight.

 

[LucidSplash]

Are you really a PGY 9 btw? Just curious. What specialty?

Yes. I’m in my last year of vascular surgery fellowship.