Send an email to Congress today! Optometrists to March in DC to Fight the VETS Act

[Andrew_Doan]

Granted this may be an inadequate example, but the whole issue of experience and education to perform the scope of practice has been well documented for optometry and therapeutics for the last 20+ years. The risk profiles and outcomes do not bear out the catastrophic predictions that were proffered then.

Dr. Hom,

You make good points, and I look forward to reading your opinions.

I think risk profiles and outcomes studies are difficult to do. Both optometry and ophthalmology do not have "feedback" mechanisms to report and track bad outcomes. When we see patients who were not managed properly, there is not an effective and helpful system for feedback. Caregivers often cover each other?s backs. In regards to optometry, many ophthalmologists rarely report anything because they fear their referral base will disappear.

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[Andrew_Doan]

Update from the AAO:

Rep. John Sullivan, who introduced the VETS Act, sent three different letters to his colleagues, including one that offers clarification language to ensure that the bill will not preclude optometrists from doing non-invasive, non-surgical procedures. The VETS Coalition also sent a letter to members of Congress. Like Sullivan's letters, it exposed the propaganda optometry is spreading in its attempt to persuade them to drop their support for our bill. The Academy encourages you to contact your member of Congress urging support for the VETS Act.

 

[optcom]

YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE HOSPITAL PRIVILEDGES YOU ARE NOT A PHYSICIAN!!!

According to medicare, I am a physician, so are podiatrists and dentists.

Eye surgery is difficult if it wasn't then other MD's would be doing it.

If you are so talented, why can't you even get glasses Rx right the first time. It must be soooo difficult.

I know you're to busy ordering unneccesary tests, polishing your porsche

Since I don't have hospital priviledges, How could I order tests, let along unnecessary ones?
Oh, you are the PHYSICIAN with hospital priviledges, so you must be ordering those tests.

 

[Andrew_Doan]

According to medicare, I am a physician, so are podiatrists and dentists.

OPTCOM, you impress me with your logic. Just because Medicare includes you as a "physician" for billing purposes, this does not make you a physician. Laws and legislations are notorious for granting immediate physician-like privileges with the stroke of a pen. Enjoy the fact that Medicare allows you to bill with the same billing codes that the AMA and the American Academy of Ophthlamology fight for maintaining reasonable reimbursement levels every year.

If you are so talented, why can't you even get glasses Rx right the first time. It must be soooo difficult.

I can get the Rx right the first time. I trial frame all my patients and perform trial frame refractions for my low vision patients. However, I am quick to concede that optometrists are better than me and receive several fold more formal instruction that ophthalmologists to perform refractions and contact lens fittings. This is the main difference between our two professions. Thus, I often refer all my patients to their local optometrists for a final refraction. My refraction is simply a diagnostic tool to determine a patient's best corrected visual acuity. Refracting for the ophthalmologist is similar to listening to the heart and lungs on a history and physical exam. If patients are not 20/20, then I'm looking for pathology.

If I can admit that I'm not as good as optometrists when performing refractions, then what is your problem in admitting that physicians are trained to care for medical and surgical ocular diseases better than optometry?

Since I don't have hospital priviledges, How could I order tests, let along unnecessary ones?

Just because you order a test doesn't mean you know how to interpret or read the test. This is beyond your scope of training. Interestingly, in the court of law, if an optometrist and radiologist miss an optic nerve meningioma because only a T1 MRI was ordered of the head, instead of a T1 & T2 MRI of the head and orbits with fat saturation, then the optometrist will claim that it's not within their scope of training. The radiologist will get sued instead. This has happened many times. I've seen it. On the other hand, if an ophthalmologist orders the MRI and misses the tumor, then both the ophthalmologist and radiologist will get sued. Thus, optometrists should not be ordering lab tests, scans, or imaging studies. Save the patient money and send them to a physician (MD or DO) if there is a problem you detected on your screening exam.

 

[optcom]

Save the patient money and send them to a physician (MD or DO) if there is a problem you detected on your screening exam.

"save the patient money?" I have seen OMDs telling patient to use OTC reading Rx while charging $4000 for lasik for the same person, telling that patient could save 80 dollars on lenses. That make me laugh.

Let's talk about unnecessary test, or unnecessary surgeries, questionable PI, cats removal, and lasiks...or even fake ones. Who is the one performing those surgeries? I am sure you read eyenet, go back a few issues, you will see the list of those who went to jail for it and it's not ODs.

I like some of your clinic posts, but don't hop on others like a bull dog, especially when I wasn't even reply to your posts. You do know more about something, but I do know about others more than you. Everyone has a place in this eye care world. No one can have it all. Enjoy the weekend folks.

 

[Eyesore]

optcom,

If we still had the karma ratings, i think you would be burning in hell right now. Was that one of the categories? If not, then it should have been.

 

[Andrew_Doan]

You do know more about something, but I do know about others more than you. Everyone has a place in this eye care world. No one can have it all.

Wasn't that the point of my post above?!

 

[Caverject]

Just to get an understanding as to who you are dealing with here...

Undergrad: UCSD (transferred)
Undergrad GPA: 2.83
MCAT: 22L
Major: Biology
Applied: SGU, Ross, OSU-COM, COMP, TUCOM, Univ. of Oklahoma, UCSD
Interviewed: SGU, OSU-COM, TUCOM, COMP
Accepted: OSU-COM
Rejected: SGU, Ross, OU, UCSD, COMP & TUCOM

Now have to decide whether to defer a year and try for SGU/Ross again, or go ahead and go.

Now you can understand the stupidity of his posts!

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=1410108#post1410108

 

[Andrew_Doan]

Despite its best effort, optometry succeeds in stripping only two supporters from VETS Act. Last month?s march on Washington resulted only two members of Congress, Reps. Tim Holden (D-Pa.) and Dave Camp (R-Mich.), dropping their co-sponsorship of the Academy?s Veterans Eye Treatment Safety Act. Optometry had hoped to derail our effort to protect patient safety, but the VETS Act remains strong with more than 70 supporters. Help keep support strong by sending a letter to your Congressional representatives informing them of the importance of ?Surgery by Surgeons.?

 

[optcom]

If we still had the karma ratings, i think you would be burning in hell right now. Was that one of the categories? If not, then it should have been.

Was I talking to you? You must be an eyesore to your folks.

 

[Eyegirl2k7]

I am so sick of listening to this debate go on and on in thread after thread.

It doesn't accomplish anything to sit here and say "Optometrists shouldn't do this!" "Oh yeah, well opthalmologists shouldn't say this..."

 

[Andrew_Doan]

It doesn't accomplish anything to sit here and say "Optometrists shouldn't do this!" "Oh yeah, well opthalmologists shouldn't say this..."

I agree that sitting here and posting doesn't do much, but informing SDN members, medical students, residents, and physicians of current political issues is important. We're generating letters to members of congress.

_______________________________
American Academy of Ophthalmology Update


The campaign for ?Surgery by Surgeons? took a big step forward today. Sen. Peter Fitzgerald (R. Ill.) has filled an amendment that would protect veterans from optometric surgery in the Department of Veterans Affairs healthcare system. Whether this amendment succeeds is up to you. Optometry is already staging its countermove. Contact your senators and tell them how to vote on this important issue.

YOU MUST ACT TODAY!

*CALL OR E-MAIL your senators and tell them to support the Fitzgerald amendment to the Department of Defense (DOD) authorization bill in the name of patient safety.

*You can reach your senators by calling the Capitol Hill switchboard at 202.224.3121 and asking for their offices.

*OR go to the Advocacy Action Center and send a preformatted e-mail message: http://capwiz.com/aao/issues/alert/?alertid=4509636

Tell your senators that this amendment has only one goal: to make sure our veterans have the same standard of care as they would enjoy if they were still active members of the Army or Navy. It is the same protection offered to residents in 49 of our nation?s states and Puerto Rico. That is, to have their delicate eye surgery performed by licensed physicians only.

Urge your staff and patients to contact their senators as well.
The Fitzgerald amendment could be attached to a soon to be voted on DOD authorization bill, S. 2400, as a way to get the Senate to consider this issue immediately. The amendment is similar to the Academy-backed bill in the House, H.R. 3473, the ?Veterans Eye Treatment Safety Act of 2003,? except that it clarifies that optometrists can continue performing noninvasive procedures such as removing superficial ocular foreign bodies, epilating misaligned eyelashes, and inserting punctual plugs, a point optometry has used to argue against H.R. 3473.

AAO Advocacy Action Center
http://capwiz.com/aao/issues/alert/?alertid=4509636

 

[Mirror Form]

I agree that sitting here and posting doesn't do much, but informing SDN members, medical students, residents, and physicians of current political issues is important. We're generating letters to members of congress.

_______________________________
American Academy of Ophthalmology Update


The campaign for ?Surgery by Surgeons? took a big step forward today. Sen. Peter Fitzgerald (R. Ill.) has filled an amendment that would protect veterans from optometric surgery in the Department of Veterans Affairs healthcare system. Whether this amendment succeeds is up to you. Optometry is already staging its countermove. Contact your senators and tell them how to vote on this important issue.

YOU MUST ACT TODAY!

*CALL OR E-MAIL your senators and tell them to support the Fitzgerald amendment to the Department of Defense (DOD) authorization bill in the name of patient safety.

*You can reach your senators by calling the Capitol Hill switchboard at 202.224.3121 and asking for their offices.

*OR go to the Advocacy Action Center and send a preformatted e-mail message: http://capwiz.com/aao/issues/alert/?alertid=4509636

Tell your senators that this amendment has only one goal: to make sure our veterans have the same standard of care as they would enjoy if they were still active members of the Army or Navy. It is the same protection offered to residents in 49 of our nation?s states and Puerto Rico. That is, to have their delicate eye surgery performed by licensed physicians only.

Urge your staff and patients to contact their senators as well.
The Fitzgerald amendment could be attached to a soon to be voted on DOD authorization bill, S. 2400, as a way to get the Senate to consider this issue immediately. The amendment is similar to the Academy-backed bill in the House, H.R. 3473, the ?Veterans Eye Treatment Safety Act of 2003,? except that it clarifies that optometrists can continue performing noninvasive procedures such as removing superficial ocular foreign bodies, epilating misaligned eyelashes, and inserting punctual plugs, a point optometry has used to argue against H.R. 3473.

AAO Advocacy Action Center
http://capwiz.com/aao/issues/alert/?alertid=4509636

Thanks for the info, I just faxed a letter to my representatives.

With the link Dr. Doan provides, it was very fast and easy. Everybody who agrees with Dr. Doan's posts should do the same, it'll only take second!

 

[Andrew_Doan]

This is a message from Denna Bruce (Manager, OPHTHPAC, AAO):

Dear Congressional Advocate:

We have reached a critical point in the campaign for Surgery by Surgeons, and now we need your help to maintain the significant progress we have made.

? Please pick up the phone and call your U.S. Senators today to register your support for the Fitzgerald amendment, S.A. 3323, to the Department of Defense authorization bill.

?All Senate offices can be reached by dialing the Capitol Switchboard at (202) 224-3121.

? Optometry has already mobilized its members to fight against the progress we have made. Don?t let them speak for you!

The Fitzgerald amendment, S.A.3323, could be attached to a soon to be voted on DOD authorization bill, S. 2400, as a way to get the Senate to consider this issue immediately. The amendment is similar to the Academy-backed bill in the House, H.R. 3473, the ?Veterans Eye Treatment Safety Act of 2003,? except that it clarifies that optometrists can continue performing non-invasive procedures such as removing superficial ocular foreign bodies, epilating misaligned eyelashes, and inserting punctual plugs, a point optometry has used to argue against H.R. 3473.

 

[christie]

Alot of patients looking for an opthalmologist help have chronic diseases that affect multiple organs of the body like HTN, Diabetes, CVA etc etc. Are you telling me optometrist have the require education to give this patients the kind of treatment they deserve?

I really had to say something in response to this post. Over 90% of my patients at The Eye Instiute have HTN and DM. Many others have hyperlipedemia and hypothyroidism. We are taught in school how to manage these systemic problems..I can tell you anything about HTN and DM not relating to the eye. We're not just taught how to manage & treat ocular diseases, but we take a year course in clinical medicine, systemic pharm, among others.

 

[vanelo]

OK, Here is the math:
> 90% pts HTN + DM
~ 5 % hyperlipidemia
~ 5 % hypoTSH
_______
100 %

Now, that doesn't leave much space for systemic conditions such as Epidermolysis bullosa, Ehlers Danlos, Marfans, Rheumatoid Arthritis, Amyloidosis, Wilsond Dz, Lowe's syndrome, Sickle cell Dz, Marchesanis syndrome, Osteogenesis Imperfecta, Neurofibromatosis, Wilms tumor.............. want me to go on????

If you all optometrists want to behave as ophthalmologists then all of you should be AT LEAST capable of knowing how all those systemic conditions that we had to learn in med school manifest in ocular terms AND potential complications and at least how to refer each patient to the appropiate specialist.
I doubt very much that any optometrist knows AT LEAST (again) the simplest detail about neurofibromatosis.

 

[Mirror Form]

OK, Here is the math:
> 90% pts HTN + DM
~ 5 % hyperlipidemia
~ 5 % hypoTSH
_______
100 %

Now, that doesn't leave much space for systemic conditions such as Epidermolysis bullosa, Ehlers Danlos, Marfans, Rheumatoid Arthritis, Amyloidosis, Wilsond Dz, Lowe's syndrome, Sickle cell Dz, Marchesanis syndrome, Osteogenesis Imperfecta, Neurofibromatosis, Wilms tumor.............. want me to go on????

If you all optometrists want to behave as ophthalmologists then all of you should be AT LEAST capable of knowing how all those systemic conditions that we had to learn in med school manifest in ocular terms AND potential complications and at least how to refer each patient to the appropiate specialist.
I doubt very much that any optometrist knows AT LEAST (again) the simplest detail about neurofibromatosis.

Optometrists learn a little bit about that stuff. But they only learn it once and don't spend anywhere near as much time on them as medical students. In medical school we learn that stuff over and over again and see how they are managed, etc . . .

 

[christie]

OK, Here is the math:
> 90% pts HTN + DM
~ 5 % hyperlipidemia
~ 5 % hypoTSH
_______
100 %

Now, that doesn't leave much space for systemic conditions such as Epidermolysis bullosa, Ehlers Danlos, Marfans, Rheumatoid Arthritis, Amyloidosis, Wilsond Dz, Lowe's syndrome, Sickle cell Dz, Marchesanis syndrome, Osteogenesis Imperfecta, Neurofibromatosis, Wilms tumor.............. want me to go on????

If you all optometrists want to behave as ophthalmologists then all of you should be AT LEAST capable of knowing how all those systemic conditions that we had to learn in med school manifest in ocular terms AND potential complications and at least how to refer each patient to the appropiate specialist.
I doubt very much that any optometrist knows AT LEAST (again) the simplest detail about neurofibromatosis.

 

[christie]

OK, Here is the math:
> 90% pts HTN + DM
~ 5 % hyperlipidemia
~ 5 % hypoTSH
_______
100 %

Now, that doesn't leave much space for systemic conditions such as Epidermolysis bullosa, Ehlers Danlos, Marfans, Rheumatoid Arthritis, Amyloidosis, Wilsond Dz, Lowe's syndrome, Sickle cell Dz, Marchesanis syndrome, Osteogenesis Imperfecta, Neurofibromatosis, Wilms tumor.............. want me to go on????

If you all optometrists want to behave as ophthalmologists then all of you should be AT LEAST capable of knowing how all those systemic conditions that we had to learn in med school manifest in ocular terms AND potential complications and at least how to refer each patient to the appropiate specialist.
I doubt very much that any optometrist knows AT LEAST (again) the simplest detail about neurofibromatosis.

Actually, we do learn those conditions, but not over and over again like you guys do. We're in school to specialize in ocular disease not systemic disease.
Thanks

 

[mdkurt]

I really had to say something in response to this post. Over 90% of my patients at The Eye Instiute have HTN and DM. Many others have hyperlipedemia and hypothyroidism. We are taught in school how to manage these systemic problems..I can tell you anything about HTN and DM not relating to the eye. We're not just taught how to manage & treat ocular diseases, but we take a year course in clinical medicine, systemic pharm, among others.

In my experiences with PCO, I have met some students and residents that have a very good understanding of basic primary eye care, and some that leave me wondering just what the heck the instructors are telling you guys. If you work hard there, you should be able to fit yourself into the first group just fine. Many of the patients you see are quite sick. You should understand, though, that what you are taught at PCO regarding systemic disease is extremely superficial. Please don't assert that you're taught how to manage these diseases.

 

[NDESTRUKT]

what's the latest on the whole amendment to the bill?

 

[Andrew_Doan]

what's the latest on the whole amendment to the bill?

As far as I know, a bill is now being considered in the Senate. I don't think there has been a final decision made yet.

The Fitzgerald amendment, S.A.3323, could be attached to a soon to be voted on DOD authorization bill, S. 2400, as a way to get the Senate to consider this issue immediately. The amendment is similar to the Academy-backed bill in the House, H.R. 3473, the ?Veterans Eye Treatment Safety Act of 2003,? except that it clarifies that optometrists can continue performing non-invasive procedures such as removing superficial ocular foreign bodies, epilating misaligned eyelashes, and inserting punctual plugs, a point optometry has used to argue against H.R. 3473.

 

[Andrew_Doan]

what's the latest on the whole amendment to the bill?

This is a notice from the American Academy of Ophthalmology:

The AOA (American Optometric Association) is telling its members and Congress that our proposed bill would prevent optometrists from performing routine care. John Boozman, OD, a Republican from Arkansas, has told AOA members that under this legislation, ?I?m not sure I could even lift the eyelid? to examine an eye. If ophthalmologists are to fend off this attack on patient safety, we must match ODs phone call for phone call, e-mail for e-mail and dollar for dollar. Even if you have already contacted your senators, call them again TODAY via the Capitol Hill switchboard at 202.224.3121 and tell them to support legislation that would guarantee only licensed physicians perform eye surgery in the VA healthcare system. Your call could be the difference in this battle for patient safety. Phone calls are preferable, but you may also send an e-mail message from the Advocacy Action Center. Give to the Academy?s Surgical Scope Fund today: http://www.aao.org/aao/advocacy/state/ssf.cfm

 

[modelcitizen]

Believe it or not, he says he's accepted to an osteopathic school.

Now doggonit DrTroll, I can't even take a vacation for a couple of months without having you going around trolling for trouble? And you've already had your hand slapped twice for doubting me here and here. Need I do it again?

 

[Andrew_Doan]

A notice from the AAO:

Thanks, once again, to the thousands of you who called and wrote on behalf of protecting veterans. The Senate introduction of S. 2743, the "Veterans Eye Treatment Safety Act," is a result of your outstanding advocacy efforts.

The following Senate leaders are co-sponsoring our bill: Sens. Peter Fitzgerald (R- Ill.), Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.), Maria Cantwell (D-Wash.), Diane Feinstein, (D-Calif.) and Fritz Hollings (D-S.C.).

Like the VETS bill introduced last fall in the House, S. 2743 would ensure only qualified medical doctors and doctors of osteopathy can perform eye surgery within the Veterans Affairs healthcare system.

We thank all our Senate supporters and our partners in the Veterans Eye Treatment Safety (VETS) Coalition: American Academy of Family Physicians, American College of Surgeons, American Medical Association, American Osteopathic Association, American Society of Cataract and Refractive Surgery.