Seeking Security in Psychology; Counseling or School??

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ZiggyAnalysis

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Hi everyone,

I am a very frustrated undergraduate senior who needs some serious advice. Its time to get apps for schools and Im tied between two fields for some complicated reasons and would like to know..

Putting personal preferences aside, which graduate path would you consider to be more lucrative or more in demand today between these two.. PhD in Counseling Psychology / School Psychology?

The reason I ask this is because while I am aware of the diff in the fields (i.e SP's more assessment, Counseling Psych more counseling.. ) I wanted to know overall job outlook.

I believe my heart is leaning more towards Counseling Psychology, but when I do research online it seems School Psychology/IO will offer more career opportunities and a better $$$ as I am already in loan debt and feel as a 1st generation college student, my parents expect me to get something secure, stable and at least decent paying so I can be of help to them someday. I know im not going to get rich in psych, but I want to be able to not struggle so hard to make a living. (In other words, I want to be in demand.)

My parents are already not pleased with my college major in psychology allready but they are more at ease when hearing School Psych "is in demand" "is a secure job" and pays well. If that were truly the case, I don' think I would mind going with School Psych and conducting assessments..

So I guess Im looking for validation in terms of what I've been reading and wonder could I still compromise by pursuing School Psych doctorate (and counsel adolescents and families), therefore putting myself in a better position later on?

Or is Counseling "secure enough" and since it is a general degree will allow me to do more? :cool:

This is just all so confusing...
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security and making a lot of money are not the same thing.

IMHO, one of the dirty little secret sof psychology is that the majority of psychologists are self employed. the nature of self employment is that there is little security. While you could make a ton of cash one month, you might make none the next. your ability to create revenue is wholly dependent on you. you could be very successful at this, or not. in my experience, few individuals have the drive to develop their own business. it seems to me that most individuals go home the second they are not making money. others stick around and develop their business. if you feel that you would be able to develop a thriving practice, and have very specific ideas about how to do this, AND these ideas work, then you should be fine. if you can sweat out periods of not making money and keep developing the business then you will be fine. however, if you think that you won't be able to do this, then a more "secure" job, working for a company may be preferable. these often pay a lot less than private practice, but you receive a steady albeit smaller paycheck.

also: if you are female, you might need to consider how any children you might want to have or already have would affect how you manage your own small business.
 
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PSYDR said:
security and making a lot of money are not the same thing.

IMHO, one of the dirty little secret sof psychology is that the majority of psychologists are self employed. the nature of self employment is that there is little security. While you could make a ton of cash one month, you might make none the next. your ability to create revenue is wholly dependent on you. you could be very successful at this, or not. in my experience, few individuals have the drive to develop their own business. it seems to me that most individuals go home the second they are not making money. others stick around and develop their business. if you feel that you would be able to develop a thriving practice, and have very specific ideas about how to do this, AND these ideas work, then you should be fine. if you can sweat out periods of not making money and keep developing the business then you will be fine. however, if you think that you won't be able to do this, then a more "secure" job, working for a company may be preferable. these often pay a lot less than private practice, but you receive a steady albeit smaller paycheck.

also: if you are female, you might need to consider how any children you might want to have or already have would affect how you manage your own small business.
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Yeah, I don't think I would stick through with not being able to have a steady income. I also don't want to depend on having a private practice. So, are you implying that most Counseling Psychologists have their own practices to make a living? Or are not paid enough in other sectors, i.e. (university counseling, hospitals, etc) so they often do have a private practice?
 
according the apa, a vast majority (60%) of clinical and counseling psychologist are in private practice. so, yes, i am stating that most counseling psychs are in private practice. IMHO this is b/c private practice pays more.

the median salary for counseling psychologists working for 5-9 years in a university counseling center is 53k, while the median for the same demographic group in private practice is 77k.

i imagine many would find it hard to work 40 hrs per week and then do private practice.

keep in mind that many jobs require a great deal of geographical flexibility.
 
actually he lost his license in TX.


their state laws prevent you from calling yourself a "psychologist" unless you are licensed. so technically he was not a psychologist when he met her. weird.
 
PSYDR said:
security and making a lot of money are not the same thing.

also: if you are female, you might need to consider how any children you might want to have or already have would affect how you manage your own small business.
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That's a little sexist, don't you think? Unless the woman has fathered them herself, this should not be a female only concern outside of the need for maternity leave.

Mark

PS - I would go with Counseling Psychology over School, but that's a personal preference.
 
ZiggyAnalysis said:
Hi everyone,

My parents are already not pleased with my college major in psychology already but they are more at ease when hearing School Psych "is in demand" "is a secure job" and pays well. If that were truly the case, I don' think I would mind going with School Psych and conducting assessments..

This is just all so confusing...
Click to expand...

Who are you living for? You or your parents?

Sorry go for what you want. You'll make enough money if you play your cards right in either field. Yesterday's hot job is today's unemployed. Once upon a time you could eek out a living delivering ice or milk... think you can today?

Psychology fortunately is not a field that is likely to be obsoleted soon by technology.

Mark
 
Mark,

i don't consider my statement sexist. i specifically stated this poster, whose gender i know nothing about, MAY want to consider how his/her preference might affect how he/she wishes to run his/her company should he/she want to run a solo practice. i consider this good advice. the assumption that women wish to follow masculine business models is actually considered sexists in modern feminist dialogues. i believe it is sexist to assume that a woman would wish to follow the masculine business mode. i also consider addressing another as an equal and encouraging an individual to consider how their possible gender roles may affect their business in a misogynist society extremely egalitarian.

hope that answers your question.

sincerely,

psydr

p.s. one of my (several) minors was in women's studies.
 
Based on what I understand, there isn't a huge salary gap between counseling psychologists and school psychologists at the doctoral level. There are more jobs available in school districts but a school psychologist has have NASP licensure to do that. The bigger difference is at the master's level. If you don't mind doing a lot of assessment and administration, then becoming a master's level school psychologist is a good deal; starting salaries in areas were they are desperate for them can run from $50,000 to $60,000. Compared to the $20,000-$30,000 that most master's level counselors earn it is really attractive. You do have more career flexibility as a doctorl level psychologist thought.
 
PSYDR said:
Mark,

i don't consider my statement sexist. i specifically stated this poster, whose gender i know nothing about, MAY want to consider how his/her preference might affect how he/she wishes to run his/her company should he/she want to run a solo practice.
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Nice answer, but you specifically state, "also: if you are female." <- If he/she isn't female (in gender), what then? Granted considering your family dynamics is an important consideration when running a small business. I was mainly giving you a hard time for sport and no other purpose. I think otherwise your advice and posts are usually spot on!

Mark
 
Markp said:
Nice answer, but you specifically state, "also: if you are female." <- If he/she isn't female (in gender), what then? Granted considering your family dynamics is an important consideration when running a small business. I was mainly giving you a hard time for sport and no other purpose. I think otherwise your advice and posts are usually spot on!

Mark
Click to expand...


PSYDR.. your statement was not at all sexist. I understood where you were coming from, you were trying to help me make a more convenient choice in terms of my future priorities.. if I am a female (and I am) and I want to have a child or children, the private practice thing may interfere... that just how it is... but I bet many women in the field who have beared and raised children have succeeded at it. The nitty gritties of private practice, (trying to maintain stability/growth) may require more attention.. I in the other hand am not thinking about a family at all right now, although life is unpredictable and it may just happen.

But back to the purpose of my post..

Thanks to all who've responded.. I'll be happy to continue to get some more advice/perspectives but I do realize at the end of the day I have to do what's best for me.
 
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One more ques to get some clarification:

1.Could I do a lot with Counseling Psychology? (general degree so I have more options)
2. Nowadays, could I still make a decent income without having a private practice?
 
were you interested in I/O as well?

in I/O it can all depend on the stability, but there is a great deal of traveling and such involved (seeing as most I/O psychologists are employed in consulting firms)
 
The2abraxis said:
were you interested in I/O as well?

in I/O it can all depend on the stability, but there is a great deal of traveling and such involved (seeing as most I/O psychologists are employed in consulting firms)
Click to expand...


No, just mentioned it.
 
Mark,

uh oh. i really wish i read that before i got offline last night. in a fit of rage from your comments, i took away my girlfriend's right to vote and then made her cook me a steak and then had her give birth to several (male) children.


seriously though, i didn't take it hard at all. i sorta thought that was what you were doing. we're all good. i usually agree with you as well.

-psydr
 
ziggy,


1) a counseling phd may leave give you some more opportunities, depending on which state you practice in. also, what you want to do, also determines which degree will be the best for you.

2) what you consider a "good" income is really not something anyone can answer but yourself given the subjective nature of the classification. APA has published last year's salary data, which i referred to in my previous post. If you hear 53k and find that a "good income", then the answer is yes. If you hear 53k, and don't believe you could live off that in your 30s, then the answer is a resounding "no".


my advice is: go to the apa's research site, look at the tables, and determine if that is doable given your lifestyle aspirations/ debt.
 
PSYDR said:
Mark,

uh oh. i really wish i read that before i got offline last night. in a fit of rage from your comments, i took away my girlfriend's right to vote and then made her cook me a steak and then had her give birth to several (male) children.

-psydr
Click to expand...

Sweet! It gives me the strength to confront my woman and take back my man pants. ;)

Mark
 
I think your particular location will be a factor as well. With a school system like NYC's, for example, I imagine there is a pretty big demand for school psychologists, and I'm pretty sure you'd be protected by a union. That's a big plus for security. Also, a lot of school psychologists do outside consulting as well, which can bring in extra dough.

Counseling, I'm not so sure. I think private practice being what it is, you'll make of it what you make of it.

I don't think either will make you wealthy. Comfortable, maybe. If money's what you're looking for, I/O would probably be the best bet. Or if you're insane, a combined I/O and MBA, and just go corporate. By that point, though, you'd probably be pretty far removed from what interested you in psych to begin with.
 
ZiggyAnalysis said:
One more ques to get some clarification:

1.Could I do a lot with Counseling Psychology? (general degree so I have more options)
2. Nowadays, could I still make a decent income without having a private practice?
Click to expand...

Is private practice your end goal? How clear on you are you on what you want to do? Private practice MFT is probably a bad idea in general, but working in forensic settings, for example, is quite lucrative. A counseling grad from my program pulls in very nice money in this setting while doing interesting work that he loves.

Hint: If you work for lawyers, everything from driving to the courthouse to sitting in a chair thinking about a case is billable hours. :)
 
JockNerd said:
Is private practice your end goal? How clear on you are you on what you want to do? Private practice MFT is probably a bad idea in general, but working in forensic settings, for example, is quite lucrative. A counseling grad from my program pulls in very nice money in this setting while doing interesting work that he loves.

Hint: If you work for lawyers, everything from driving to the courthouse to sitting in a chair thinking about a case is billable hours. :)
Click to expand...



No private practice is not my end goal. If I do it, it will be nothing serious, unless managed care changes it's rules. I wouldn't want to base my income on that. Would I be interested? sure.

I/O to me sounds like I might as well say I want to go into HR....:cool: but its something to look into.

Thanks you guys for all the advice!
 
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