School Reputation and Chance of Residency

[michelle_is_me]

Hi guys:

I am still a pre-pharm student, doing the interview rounds and picking schools (and being picked by schools) right now. My main interest right now would be community pharmacy when I grad, however, I am planning to do a residency somewhere down the line after a few years of working in a community pharmacy.

I am just wondering if a school's reputation has anything to do with the success of getting picked for a residency spot? Would I benefit by going to a more well-established school rather than a brand new school that has yet to graduate any students?

Thanks very much,

Michelle

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[genesis09]

There are so many variables into getting a residency. Some places don't care about your GPA as long as your meet the minimum, and some place a great emphasis on it.

 

[kitkat06]

Do anyone know what industry fellowship programs look for in their applicants? (aside from their research experience, of course)

 

[Hels2007]

I am still a pre-pharm student, doing the interview rounds and picking schools (and being picked by schools) right now. My main interest right now would be community pharmacy when I grad, however, I am planning to do a residency somewhere down the line after a few years of working in a community pharmacy.

I am just wondering if a school's reputation has anything to do with the success of getting picked for a residency spot? Would I benefit by going to a more well-established school rather than a brand new school that has yet to graduate any students?

Well, it's a hard question. I am personally wary of brand new schools that never graduated anybody, because who knows whether they will deliver what they promise. However, if you are planning to go into residency after a few years in the workforce, your school is not likely to matter that much. It will be all about why have you decided to switch, and what you know. Most residency interviews involve presentations and/or answering clinical questions/solving clinical cases during the interview. That will show whether or not you are a good candidate more than the school in your diploma. That may only affect your chances of being invited for the interview - but that still depends mostly on yourself. It helps to be proactive and contact the programs in advance. I know people who really, really wanted a certain program to contact them as early as P2 year, try to come in and chat and learn about what qualities they would like to see in their residents.

 

[Hels2007]

Do anyone know what industry fellowship programs look for in their applicants? (aside from their research experience, of course)

There are many different programs, and the requirements for someone wanting to do clinical research are vastly different from requirements for a marketing fellowship candidate. Different skills, different knowledge, entirely different personality are required.

Research experience would only be helpful if that's something you are looking to get into (or if you need something to beef up your CV, which is always a good idea - I did research simply to understand whether I would like it or not, I gave it a fair trial, working on three projects starting in undergrad - and I learned that I do not enjoy research).

Probably the only uniform preference among different industry fellowship positions would be person's interest in/enthusiasm for industry, and familiarity with what industry is and how it works. Also, a very big advantage is a rotation or an internship within industry, even if it wasn't in the area as the fellowship you are applying for.

 

[michelle_is_me]

Well, it's a hard question. I am personally wary of brand new schools that never graduated anybody, because who knows whether they will deliver what they promise. However, if you are planning to go into residency after a few years in the workforce, your school is not likely to matter that much. It will be all about why have you decided to switch, and what you know. Most residency interviews involve presentations and/or answering clinical questions/solving clinical cases during the interview. That will show whether or not you are a good candidate more than the school in your diploma. That may only affect your chances of being invited for the interview - but that still depends mostly on yourself. It helps to be proactive and contact the programs in advance. I know people who really, really wanted a certain program to contact them as early as P2 year, try to come in and chat and learn about what qualities they would like to see in their residents.

so would you say that it is probably easier to get residency after you've worked as a pharmacist for a few years? or is it harder b/c u'll have to compete with brand new grads?

 

[Hels2007]

so would you say that it is probably easier to get residency after you've worked as a pharmacist for a few years? or is it harder b/c u'll have to compete with brand new grads?

I am not the most qualified person to answer, as I do not run a residency program and haven't gone through one (though a lot of my friends have, and I have worked closely with faculty setting up/running residencies). I would say vast majority of people do it right away for financial reasons - going from 100,000 to 30,000 is a big adjustment, if you have mortgage and student loan payments by that point in life. Also, I think most programs would indeed prefer fresh grads (that's the case with fellowships, at least) - who know for sure that's what they want to do, are more willing to put in extra effort, and who don't have a lot of habits to unlearn (that one inevitably picks up while working...) so you would be easier to train in their ways.

I would like to hear what others have to say on the subject.

 

[PharmSci]

Hels2007:
Do you know if one can contact the rutgers fellowship program to schedule interviews at PPS before the midyear starts? From their website, it seems they only allow signing up for interviews during the meeting.

 

[Hels2007]

Hels2007:
Do you know if one can contact the rutgers fellowship program to schedule interviews at PPS before the midyear starts? From their website, it seems they only allow signing up for interviews during the meeting.

No. As the website says,

After watching the video and reading over the company brochures, fill out a Candidate Information Form (CIF) indicating the fellowship programs which interest you

You have to watch the video first. You could have done it at the FID last Friday, or you can do it starting at noon on Saturday at the Midyear. But the interview sign-up starts on Saturday as well, and I heard the line is usually very, very long by the time sign-up opens.

 

[kitkat06]

does anyone know how competitive are Pharm.D industry fellowships in the basic sciences (like those in PK/PD, drug toxicity, drug development)

 

[Diskshell]

What are residency for?

I thought that like in MD residency, that you can't practice your profession until you've gain some real world experience...


Do all pharmacist have to go through residency ?

What about in Canada?

 

[michelle_is_me]

What are residency for?

I thought that like in MD residency, that you can't practice your profession until you've gain some real world experience...


Do all pharmacist have to go through residency ?

What about in Canada?

hey diskshell:

it depends where u'd like to practice after you get ur license. If u want to be a community (ie retail) pharmacist, u don't need to do a residency.

also, if u'd like to work in a hospital as a staff pharmacist (the ones that work solely in the pharmacy dispensing area), u don't need a residency either.

However, if u'd like to become a clinical pharmacist (ie pharmacists that can go around the hospital and do rounds and interact with patients), most of the time you will need to do a residency. Rural hospitals sometimes you can get by without ever doing a residency, because they are in shortage of pharmacists as it is.

it is the same in Canada.

 

[cdpiano27]

Sorry to break your bubble, but I believe that the reputation of the school and its connections for sending its graduates to residencies, whether hospital or industry, plays the biggest role.

So I believe that if one wants to residency, one should really research the schools and how many people sought residency, and if so where.

I highly recommend going to UNC-Chapel Hill, 35% of their graduates go to residency. And they have a huge research funding from nearby pharmaceutical companies.

 

[michelle_is_me]

Sorry to break your bubble, but I believe that the reputation of the school and its connections for sending its graduates to residencies, whether hospital or industry, plays the biggest role.

So I believe that if one wants to residency, one should really research the schools and how many people sought residency, and if so where.

I highly recommend going to UNC-Chapel Hill, 35% of their graduates go to residency. And they have a huge research funding from nearby pharmaceutical companies.

ya that makes a lot of sense...

thanks for your input got a lot of thinking to do!

 

[genesis09]

Nationally, 11% of graduates go on to residency. Last year, the number one school was URI (University of Rhode Island) with about 80% going to residency, and other top schools were UIC and University of South Carolina.

 

[janeno]

Nationally, 11% of graduates go on to residency. Last year, the number one school was URI (University of Rhode Island) with about 80% going to residency, and other top schools were UIC and University of South Carolina.

Just out of curiosity, where do you get this statistics from?

 

[genesis09]

Just out of curiosity, where do you get this statistics from?

The University of Illinois Medical Center Pharmacy Residency Director. He gets a breakdown every year.

 

[Trancelucent1]

The University of Illinois Medical Center Pharmacy Residency Director. He gets a breakdown every year.

Are you sure that's not a percentage of the students from that school that MATCH? I know I've spoken to residency directors and they get a list of students that match and what school they went to. 80% seems extremely high and it sounds off.

 

[janeno]

Are there any websites with these statistics or statistics relevant to matching process?

 

[genesis09]

Are you sure that's not a percentage of the students from that school that MATCH? I know I've spoken to residency directors and they get a list of students that match and what school they went to. 80% seems extremely high and it sounds off.

I don't know what he meant, but he did say last year, URI had the most which went to residency.

 

[gotdrugs]

To answer the original poster:

At the residency program I currently precept at, for the last couple of years we have taken the "reputation" of the school into consideration for selecting who to interview and who to put on our rank list.

At ours it is not a make or break issue, just down the criteria list to help stratify candidates who are close to each other in other aspect.

Bottom line at our program if you are impressive in everything else (ESP interview, that is the BIG ONE) you are still an impressive candidate.

Please keep in mind though that this may change over the next few years as there are more and more and more pharmacy schools and students out there, we may start becoming more selective.

 

[Tessalon]

For our program, I don't believe the reputation of the school is always weighted as a big advantage or disadvantage. The only way I think it would really help or hurt you is if they have already had residents from your school and they were stellar or terrible. So far our director has not had a problem with the schools residents come from.

We take 5 candidates, and after talking with our director about the upcoming P-4 interviews, I get the feeling that personality is a huge factor that he wants us to watch out for. After all, even if you are a great or a so-so candidate on paper, your interview can make or break you depending on your communitcation skills. Basically I'm trying to say that MANY factors go into resident selection. Who you are is just as important as where you are coming from.

 

[KARM12]

For our program, I don't believe the reputation of the school is always weighted as a big advantage or disadvantage. The only way I think it would really help or hurt you is if they have already had residents from your school and they were stellar or terrible. So far our director has not had a problem with the schools residents come from.

We take 5 candidates, and after talking with our director about the upcoming P-4 interviews, I get the feeling that personality is a huge factor that he wants us to watch out for. After all, even if you are a great or a so-so candidate on paper, your interview can make or break you depending on your communitcation skills. Basically I'm trying to say that MANY factors go into resident selection. Who you are is just as important as where you are coming from.

How does your program decide who to extend interview offers to? What factors are most important?

 

[Tessalon]

Grades, internship experience (retail vs. hospital does not matter, but the type of employee you were does), recommendation letters, the quality of your letter of interest and C.V., level of involvement in professional organizations (i.e. just paying the dues is not considered "involvement.") We are expecting about 40 applicants, of which 30 will be offered interviews.

 

[njac]

Grades, internship experience (retail vs. hospital does not matter, but the type of employee you were does), recommendation letters, the quality of your letter of interest and C.V., level of involvement in professional organizations (i.e. just paying the dues is not considered "involvement.") We are expecting about 40 applicants, of which 30 will be offered interviews.

could you please elaborate on "type of employee"? do you mean extra projects, intern vs tech? trained in one location vs could run the place alone?

 

[Tessalon]

Type of employee = reliable, hard-working, intelligent, good personality, no smarting off to the manager or customers - no matter how much they suck, respectful of other employees, willingness to help out in a bind, easy to get along with, etc.

Basically the traits any employer would look for in a future employee in any interview setting.

 

[nerv12345]

sooo it's in our best interest to attend a school that is well established as opposed to a brand new school where you would be part of the inaugural class?

..unless that school's hospital has it's own residency program? (i'm talking about thomas jefferson university COP+ hospital)

also...how many spots do these programs usually have? jefferson has 5 spots--is that normal?

 

[Caverject]

sooo it's in our best interest to attend a school that is well established as opposed to a brand new school where you would be part of the inaugural class?

..unless that school's hospital has it's own residency program? (i'm talking about thomas jefferson university COP+ hospital)

also...how many spots do these programs usually have? jefferson has 5 spots--is that normal?

It's only in your best interest if you want to get into a tough residency program. If the prestige factor is not a big deal, then it doesn't matter what school you go to.

Most schools don't have an affiliated hospital. Your school is not quite the norm...

Jefferson has been offering 5 spots for a while now (I used to be interested in their program) Some programs offer 1 spot and some offer 15. It really just depends on the program and the hospital mission.

 

[Alby]

I am an accepted P student and really want to complete a residency and possibly a specialty residency when the time comes (immediately after graduation).

I am trying to decide between attending University of New Mexico and Midwestern University- Glendale.

Can anyone push me into the right direction as far as reputation is concerned?

Thank you

 

[njac]

I am an accepted P student and really want to complete a residency and possibly a specialty residency when the time comes (immediately after graduation).

I am trying to decide between attending University of New Mexico and Midwestern University- Glendale.

Can anyone push me into the right direction as far as reputation is concerned?

Thank you

do you know where in the country you'd like to go to do residency?

 

[Alby]

Colorado/Utah/New Mexico/Arizona... I like this part of the country and I own a home in Arizona- the market will dictate when I sell, but I can always rent. More importantly, I want to do a residency where I will get good experience and opportunity.

Are you currently attending UNMCOP?

 

[njac]

I'm a P3 at UNM. Did my undergrad at UofA (go wildcats! mountain west is an inferior conference...).

I ask because MWG is a newer school and while I've been impressed with the grads I've worked directly with my understanding is that not everyone has had the same experience (and I'm the first to admit the same for UNM. There are plenty of classmates that I'm appalled may be considered my colleagues at some point.)

Lots of UNM grads are doing residencies and are getting accepted at some prestigious programs. So I know we are making connections (because it all comes down to who you know and who can get your application pushed towards the top of the pile) around the country. If you're planning to stay in this part of the country I don't think that is quite as important.

 

[JingleC3]

hi everyone..
currently i am choosing between two schools midwestern az and michigan ann arbor for matriculation fall 2009.. both are great programs but i know that some may view one program as "better" or more "prestigous" than the other.

my question is, does the school you graduate from really matter?
i mean i know its about gpa, extra curriculars and letters of rec, but does name really matter?

 

[Glycerin]

hi everyone..
currently i am choosing between two schools midwestern az and michigan ann arbor for matriculation fall 2009.. both are great programs but i know that some may view one program as "better" or more "prestigous" than the other.

my question is, does the school you graduate from really matter?
i mean i know its about gpa, extra curriculars and letters of rec, but does name really matter?

Maybe this thread will be helpful: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=469400&highlight=graduate

 

[Hels2007]

I am going to merge the threads. No need to have several threads on the exact same topic.

Also, there are multiple threads in the Pharmacy and Pre-Pharmacy forums that discuss that exact question.

 

[codep1nk]

.

hi everyone..
currently i am choosing between two schools midwestern az and michigan ann arbor for matriculation fall 2009..

 

[gsinccom]

Most residency interviews involve presentations and/or answering clinical questions/solving clinical cases during the interview.

Is this standard?

 

[Glycerin]

Is this standard?

Depends. Each program has their own way of interviewing.

I had 8 interviews. I had one 5-minute presentation on a drug, one 20-minute presentation on something "pharmacy related" with a 10-minute Q&A session (that didn't last 10 minutes), one place had a 30-minute "clinical session" where they asked clinical questions and evaluated my thought process, and another place asked one clinical question at both of their hospitals where I had interviews (2 total). The other 4 places did not require a presentation nor did they ask clinical questions.

 

[dumediat]

For the three interviews that I did, one involved a 30-minute presentation, and another involved working through 2 clinical cases. Honestly, by that point in your career, that should be no sweat. Of course, I didn't interview at any of the super-competitive programs, so those may have been more involved.

 

[Glycerin]

Of course, I didn't interview at any of the super-competitive programs, so those may have been more involved.

Just to put this into perspective, I did interview at a very highly competitive place (120 applications) with well-known clinical pharmacists, and they were one of the ones that did not require a presentation or ask clinical questions, so, again, it will really just depend.

And, like dumediat said, any of that stuff should be second nature to you by that point.

 

[Argentium]

Has anyone applied to Rutgers Fellowship? How competitive is it ... ? How many people apply to x spots?

 

[nikkai]

Just to put this into perspective, I did interview at a very highly competitive place (120 applications) with well-known clinical pharmacists, and they were one of the ones that did not require a presentation or ask clinical questions, so, again, it will really just depend.

And, like dumediat said, any of that stuff should be second nature to you by that point.

I disagree with things being second nature at that point.

Sometimes, the programs will throw curve-ball questions at you to:

1. See how you react under pressure and uncertainty
2. See how resourceful you are
3. See how honest you are
4. See how insane you if you do manage to answer exactly how they want and provide three peer reviewed sources to support you answer.
5. Satisfy their suppressed sadistic fetishes.

But yeah, it definitely varies.

All five programs I interviewed in California had clinical competency portions of the interview which ranged from SOAPing up a patient, general DI questions, PK questions and case questions.

 

[Glycerin]

I disagree with things being second nature at that point.

Sometimes, the programs will throw curve-ball questions at you

I was referring to the clinical cases and possible presentations (which dumediat mentioned), being that students do (or should have done) countless presentations and SOAP notes over the course of four years.

 

[codep1nk]

The programs I interviewed at were a mix as well... Some had panels asking clinical q's, one had me to a journal club which they gave me a few days before, and others had nothing at all.

I was discussing this with one of the faculty at my school and she mentioned that many of the top programs are already very confident in their program and applicants, so they basically just want to see if they can get along with you...and whether you "fit" their program. Other "junior" programs (as she called it) tend to have a substantial clinical component.

GENERALLY speaking...I think this could possibly have some truth to it, but who knows.

 

[njac]

Let's see, I interviewed 8 places:

#1- Southeast US Fellowship - no clinical Qs whatsoever over 2 days.
#2- California - List of questions - pick 1, then they picked 1 to ask me. Answered in front of a panel. Had to write an extemporaneous essay using a topic they gave - had 45 mins I think.
#3- California - Scenarios given by panel - mostly questions on how to prioritize in a stressful situation and still make the correct choices. Also had a 45 minute essay, got to pick a topic from 8 stupid ones.
#4- Arizona - Written clinical exam, including some kinetics (wanted pediatric dosing and knowing levels for certain drugs and whether these were peaks or troughs). Claimed this was either not used at all, or used as a "tiebreaker"
#5- North Carolina - Journal Club - was given 3 articles to choose from a week or two in advance. Also asked clinical questions by a panel.
#6 - Virginia - No clinical questions asked. Discussed previous journal clubs, etc and research interests of interviewers but nothing specific.
#7 - Arizona - no clinical questions.
#8- Arizona - no clinical questions.

Several of these were very well known well respected programs. Of my friends I remember a program in FL requiring a journal club and GA doing a written clinical exam. The hospital where I work in NM requires a 15 minute presentation of your choice.