San Jose Anesthesiology Upheaval (CEP takeover). Who has the real scoop?

[Ezekiel2517]

Is Good Sam still part of CEP/Vituity? Their ad has no mention of them.

GasWork.com - Reference #284921

www.gaswork.com

I had heard recently that Envision/MAC acquired that contract but then I heard that deal fell thru at the last minute so I'm not really sure.

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[nimbus]

A Hospital Too Far: Trauma Night at The “Regional”

A Hospital Too Far, Part II - Bleeding Anesthesia at Good Samaritan Hospital (San Jose), The High Price of Free

 

[IlDestriero]

A Hospital Too Far: Trauma Night at The “Regional”

A Hospital Too Far, Part II - Bleeding Anesthesia at Good Samaritan Hospital (San Jose), The High Price of Free

That sounds like a disaster, I’d polish my resume, flex my contacts and be gone like a fart in the wind as well.

 

[IntoTheWest]

Regional (HCA) is now attempting to hire anesthesiologists as employees while Good Sam has attempted to reform their private practice from their glory days. O'Connor is the only remaining hospital with Vituity.

Job Search Results

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GasWork.com - Reference #284921

Reference #284921

www.gaswork.com

With all the changes in the San Jose landscape, what are thoughts on the best job opportunity in Silicon Valley?

 

[DirtDocMD]

If hospitals and corporations want to treat you as an “employee”, then that’s the way folks need to treat these ordeals.

Stop bailing them out of their call coverage and staffing issues. Start demanding contracts with a 40-50 hour cap. I’m not gonna kill myself (or patients) because you want to save a few bucks on “anesthesia” while ortho is doing a $50-$100k back or CT is doing a $100k heart.

 

[nimbus]

Regional (HCA) is now attempting to hire anesthesiologists as employees while Good Sam has attempted to reform their private practice from their glory days. O'Connor is the only remaining hospital with Vituity.

Job Search Results

Search 10 Careers available at HCA Healthcare.

regionalmedicalsanjose.com

GasWork.com - Reference #284921

Reference #284921

www.gaswork.com

With all the changes in the San Jose landscape, what are thoughts on the best job opportunity in Silicon Valley?

From the Regional ad:

“* 24/7 coverage model, Level II Trauma Center (greater than 2,220 activations in 2018)
* 12-hour and 10-hour block shift schedule with post-call time off
* Call: weekday call is 3 deep (1 in-house, 2 from home). Weekend call is 4 deep (2 in-house, 2 from home)
* 5 ORs covered plus trauma on weekdays - roughly 6,000 cases annually
* 1 Labor/Delivery unit - approximately 850 deliveries annually
* CV does approximately 70 non-pump cases annually, pump case anesthesia provided by outside anesthesia partner”

So they plan to have 12 people to cover in-house 24/7 with 2 docs in-house on weekends. That’s 36-40 in-house calls per month covered by 12 people plus home call. For 7000 cases. That’s a lot of hospital time for very few cases. And cardiac won’t do pump cases??


Are they serious?

 

[mmag]

From the Regional ad:

“* 24/7 coverage model, Level II Trauma Center (greater than 2,220 activations in 2018)
* 12-hour and 10-hour block shift schedule with post-call time off
* Call: weekday call is 3 deep (1 in-house, 2 from home). Weekend call is 4 deep (2 in-house, 2 from home)
* 5 ORs covered plus trauma on weekdays - roughly 6,000 cases annually
* 1 Labor/Delivery unit - approximately 850 deliveries annually
* CV does approximately 70 non-pump cases annually, pump case anesthesia provided by outside anesthesia partner”

So they plan to have 12 people to cover in-house 24/7 with 2 docs in-house on weekends. That’s 36-40 in-house calls per month covered by 12 people plus home call. For 7000 cases. That’s a lot of hospital time for very few cases. And cardiac won’t do pump cases??


Are they serious?

They are counting on the people who are tied to the area and have million dollar mortgages who can't afford to not work for any period of time or a new grad.

 

[narcotics999]

From the Regional ad:

“* 24/7 coverage model, Level II Trauma Center (greater than 2,220 activations in 2018)
* 12-hour and 10-hour block shift schedule with post-call time off
* Call: weekday call is 3 deep (1 in-house, 2 from home). Weekend call is 4 deep (2 in-house, 2 from home)
* 5 ORs covered plus trauma on weekdays - roughly 6,000 cases annually
* 1 Labor/Delivery unit - approximately 850 deliveries annually
* CV does approximately 70 non-pump cases annually, pump case anesthesia provided by outside anesthesia partner”

So they plan to have 12 people to cover in-house 24/7 with 2 docs in-house on weekends. That’s 36-40 in-house calls per month covered by 12 people plus home call. For 7000 cases. That’s a lot of hospital time for very few cases. And cardiac won’t do pump cases??


Are they serious?

How much does it pay? If it pays 200+ hourly rate, it may not be a bad deal due to low volume.

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[dchz]

From the Regional ad:

“* 24/7 coverage model, Level II Trauma Center (greater than 2,220 activations in 2018)
* 12-hour and 10-hour block shift schedule with post-call time off
* Call: weekday call is 3 deep (1 in-house, 2 from home). Weekend call is 4 deep (2 in-house, 2 from home)
* 5 ORs covered plus trauma on weekdays - roughly 6,000 cases annually
* 1 Labor/Delivery unit - approximately 850 deliveries annually
* CV does approximately 70 non-pump cases annually, pump case anesthesia provided by outside anesthesia partner”

So they plan to have 12 people to cover in-house 24/7 with 2 docs in-house on weekends. That’s 36-40 in-house calls per month covered by 12 people plus home call. For 7000 cases. That’s a lot of hospital time for very few cases. And cardiac won’t do pump cases??


Are they serious?

Educate a new grad time! say you're one of the 12 people with SF cost of living. What would you want this job to pay in 1099?

 

[deleted162650]

I’m not gonna entertain a job in Silicon Valley for less than 600. Real estate is insane up there.

 

[deleted941485]

I’m not gonna entertain a job in Silicon Valley for less than 600. Real estate is insane up there.

Yeah Cali especially anywhere near desirable. The conversation starts at 550K and then we negotiate and it ends with 650K and a 50K signing bonus.

Anything lower and we are simply not on the same page not worth negotiating for just walk.

 

[IMGASMD]

If they actually pay
$200/hr * 24 = 4800 for 1st call.
$200/hr * 10 = 2000 daily

1099? Probably at least 575.


7000 case / 52 week = 135 cases a week
130 cases / 5 days = 26 cases/day

They are going to sell you that you aren’t really “working” that much everyday, but in fact you’re being tied up weekdays and weekends as second calls. So they’re going to offer 425 is my guess.

 

[IMGASMD]

Just to follow up. Don’t really know the San Fran Market. But just got email blast from MACintosh.


The ballpark for W-2 is 475-600. “Compensation Package”

 

[Ezekiel2517]

I’m not gonna entertain a job in Silicon Valley for less than 600. Real estate is insane up there.

I live in the Bay Area. 600 is not enough. I would not take a job in SV or the peninsula for anything less 700. Even then I'd still be very hesitant

 

[narcotics999]

Just to follow up. Don’t really know the San Fran Market. But just got email blast from MACintosh.


The ballpark for W-2 is 475-600. “Compensation Package”

How much take home $? How many hours at the hospital per week? Total compensation package is B$

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[IMGASMD]

How much take home $? How many hours at the hospital per week? Total compensation package is B$

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Totally agree. I honestly don’t know. And with the housing market, you may be house poor for life.

The last time I heard they also give a “generous” sign on bonus.

I am sure there are people who know more than me about that market.

 

[deleted162650]

I live in the Bay Area. 600 is not enough. I would not take a job in SV or the peninsula for anything less 700. Even then I'd still be very hesitant

What part of the Bay Area are you in? Is 600-700 common up there??

 

[Ezekiel2517]

Lol. What positions in any major city is offering $700k? Some of this talk is ridiculous

Like, there's literally a link to a gaswork ad for a group in Silicon Valley on this very same page that shows an income of 750K. All you have to do is scroll up. Sorry, i know it's a lot of work.

 

[Ezekiel2517]

What part of the Bay Area are you in? Is 600-700 common up there??

I'm in the bay but not in SV or the Peninsula. I wouldn't say those numbers are common but they're out there, especially if we're talking about total comp. I mean, at kaiser norcal if you are at least 3+ yrs in, your total comp is 700. They show you the figures.

 

[narcotics999]

I'm in the bay but not in SV or the Peninsula. I wouldn't say those numbers are common but they're out there, especially if we're talking about total comp. I mean, at kaiser norcal if you are at least 3+ yrs in, your total comp is 700. They show you the figures.

For that 700k, how much is on w2 box 1?

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[C4C]

Envision (MAC/Sheridan) is offering $290/hr at John Muir for general anesthesia, and $325/hr for cardiac.

On top of that, Envision is trying to staff San Jose Regional. They bid for (and were awarded) Good Sam in Los Gatos, but even that was too much for them. The smoldering refuse of what was years ago a stable group at Good Sam has now been reborn as G2 Anesthesia and they have wrested the contract away from Envision.

In other words, Envision is trying to mop up the mess CEP (Vituity) made, but it's proving even more difficult than their slick PowerPoint presentations led them to believe. Their misstep is going to prove costly. (I'm hoping only in dollars, not in patient lives.)

John Muir is more stable than San Jose Regional, and still they can't keep it staffed at ~$300/hr. The starting bid at San Jose Regional should be $350/hr. And don't accept a penny less than $325/hr with an 8-hour guarantee, including malpractice, plus airfare, lodging, and rental car, plus a premium for OT.

 

[Ezekiel2517]

That is a range my man. And $750k is the top. Meaning unlikely to get up there

Not unlikely my main man. You're the one guessing. Let's just say I know they do very well. Oh and 600-700 is still well within that range, meaning it's not as unlikely. That's how ranges work iirc.

 

[Ezekiel2517]

For that 700k, how much is on w2 box 1?

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Depends on how much you work. I simply stated the total comp. Btw, that is based on a 40 hr work week and they get paid vacation.

 

[deleted162650]

So you’re telling me that this is a job that offers $700k in the Bay Area for a 40 hr work week and a paid vacation. And they are posting on gaswork? And they NEED bodies?? There’s a catch

No. He’s talking about Kaiser in the Bay Area. Try to keep up.

 

[nimbus]

Lots of nurses in the Bay Area make 300-500k. It is not a big stretch that some anesthesiologists are making 750k.

'Nurse' search results | Transparent California

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One of my long time partners recently left a very good job here for Kaiser Oakland because they made him an offer he couldn’t refuse.

Kaiser is also building a $1bil office tower in Oakland. The area is a huge economic engine. The money is there.

 

[gasresident1]

Just FYI...Vituity is offering under 500k salary and a 5 year "partnership" at that those locations. 1099. You pay for all your own benefits, malpractice, etc. They pay nothing. After 5 years you can participate in profit sharing.

 

[kidthor]

Just FYI...Vituity is offering under 500k salary and a 5 year "partnership" at that those locations. 1099. You pay for all your own benefits, malpractice, etc. They pay nothing. After 5 years you can participate in profit sharing.

Gross.

 

[OptionOffense]

Just FYI...Vituity is offering under 500k salary and a 5 year "partnership" at that those locations. 1099. You pay for all your own benefits, malpractice, etc. They pay nothing. After 5 years you can participate in profit sharing.

How are they gonna get people since at Santa Clarita Medical center they are making in the 700 range

 

[banister]

How are they gonna get people since at Santa Clarita Medical center they are making in the 700 range

I may be wrong, but my understanding is that the 700 range includes "benefits" that aren't directly part of their take home pay, but consist of the county cost of health/dental insurance and their pension contributions.

 

[narcotics999]

iI may be wrong, but my understanding is that the 700 range includes "benefits" that aren't directly part of their take home pay, but consist of the county cost of health/dental insurance and their pension contributions.

Say bennies 100K. 600K still good. Vituity 500K 1099? **** it.

5 year partnership? I am not sure if Vituity still exists in 5 years.

 

[undalay]

Kaiser Oakland is paying 350$/per hour and 420 for overtime, still having difficulty recruiting. They also made an offer that you do not need to do trauma and basically choose what cases you were comfortable doing. That is a good gig. Kaiser has so much backlog of cases to do , that they are outsourcing their work by contracting with other independent hospitals. I am expecting this shortage to continue

 

[nimbus]

Kaiser Oakland is paying 350$/per hour and 420 for overtime, still having difficulty recruiting. They also made an offer that you do not need to do trauma and basically choose what cases you were comfortable doing. That is a good gig. Kaiser has so much backlog of cases to do , that they are outsourcing their work by contracting with other independent hospitals. I am expecting this shortage to continue

We’ve been doing outsourced Kaiser work for over 20yrs. They are very smart and pay decently.

 

[gasresident1]

Soooo, Kaiser is essentially:

Locum - 350 to 420 an hour 1099 (and you can drop your tax bracket to your heart's desire)

Permanent - 380k with benefits (which they try to market as being over 150k worth) and Cali/fed will take half of that in taxes

Sounds like a no freaking brainer to me. Surprised they have actual employees....

 

[Dr. Rude]

Soooo, Kaiser is essentially:

Locum - 350 to 420 an hour 1099 (and you can drop your tax bracket to your heart's desire)

Permanent - 380k with benefits (which they try to market as being over 150k worth) and Cali/fed will take half of that in taxes

Sounds like a no freaking brainer to me. Surprised they have actual employees....

Except if you are already an employee and quit it is unlikely that they will hire you back as a 1099. Sets a very bad precedent.

 

[narcotics999]

Soooo, Kaiser is essentially:

Locum - 350 to 420 an hour 1099 (and you can drop your tax bracket to your heart's desire)

Permanent - 380k with benefits (which they try to market as being over 150k worth) and Cali/fed will take half of that in taxes

Sounds like a no freaking brainer to me. Surprised they have actual employees....

pension, lifetime insurance - golden handcuffs

 

[OptionOffense]

Except if you are already an employee and quit it is unlikely that they will hire you back as a 1099. Sets a very bad precedent.

Depends on how desperate they are

 

[nimbus]

Except if you are already an employee and quit it is unlikely that they will hire you back as a 1099. Sets a very bad precedent.

This is what my hospital does with nurses. Fortunately the nurses can take permanent or travel jobs at every other hospital system in town.

 

[undalay]

Kaiser employees can get overtime and they can make 500 easily particularly in Fresno , Modesto Central Valley locations. Some who r workaholics make 700. So 380 figure is for 40 hr per week track.

 

[DoctwoB]

Except if you are already an employee and quit it is unlikely that they will hire you back as a 1099. Sets a very bad precedent.

Also no job security. Part of the reason people are willing to pay locums more is you can get rid of them right away with no cost. If they get to the point where permenant hires can meet demand you’re out.

 

[Coffee PRN]

Kaiser Oakland is paying 350$/per hour and 420 for overtime, still having difficulty recruiting. They also made an offer that you do not need to do trauma and basically choose what cases you were comfortable doing. That is a good gig. Kaiser has so much backlog of cases to do , that they are outsourcing their work by contracting with other independent hospitals. I am expecting this shortage to continue

Their bay area recruiter (Gretchen) told me that their pool rate is $225 and is the same at all their locations. Where did you get the offer for $350/hour?

 

[aneftp]

Their bay area recruiter (Gretchen) told me that their pool rate is $225 and is the same at all their locations. Where did you get the offer for $350/hour?

$275/hr is the bare minimum in that area. The recruiter takes the spread difference what u are willing to take. Like a mortgage broker with spread difference.

 

[GassYous]

Their bay area recruiter (Gretchen) told me that their pool rate is $225 and is the same at all their locations. Where did you get the offer for $350/hour?

Gretchen is robbing you

 

[DirtDocMD]

$225 would barely get a CRNA locums. Highway robbery, unless you live 5 minutes from the hospital and have nothing better to do...

 

[Coffee PRN]

They are the listed recruiter contact under Kaiser's own website, which is why I am a bit confused.

 

[nimbus]

Their bay area recruiter (Gretchen) told me that their pool rate is $225 and is the same at all their locations. Where did you get the offer for $350/hour?

SCPMG is paying $250/hr to their per diems. It’s unlikely that TPMG pays less.

GasWork.com - Reference #376574

www.gaswork.com

 

[MirrorTodd]

FWIW I had a locums guy try to pull the saddle over my eyes. I was set to do some locums in Montana near where my sister lives and the locums initially gave me a per hour rate of $260 which wasn't great, but I was willing to accept cause I'm new to the game and it would've allowed me to visit my sister and her family. But then when it came time to get the contract out, they said that the new rate was $240/hr and this was because I was military or some bs and so I asked the recruiter at the hospital and she didn't know anything about that. Luckily, they were able to find me something about 3 hours from where I live for a decent rate, so I went with that. (Only reason I stuck with this company was that getting permission to do off duty empoloyment in the Army where I am at is a supreme hassle).

 

[Arantius]

Noclaw makes good points.

Maybe CEP is no worse than other AMCs. Maybe they're even the best. The bottom line is that the future of anesthesiologists sucks.

Is CEP Vituity? I think VItuity is owned by CEP?

 

[nimbus]

Is CEP Vituity? I think VItuity is owned by CEP?

Now We're Vituity. But What Happened to CEP America?

Denise Brown, MD, Chief Strategy Officer, talks about the meaning behind Vituity's new name.

www.vituity.com