San Antonio EM Market - PRN

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Got Em

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I am looking for a PRN job in San Antonio. Since I am doing a fellowship that is mainly M-F 8-5, I am limited to only working Saturdays and Sundays (AM/PM shifts only, no overnights due to fellowship schedule). Looking to do 3-4 shifts per month at a busy place where I won't lose my skills and also double covered (no rural places, freestandings, etc).

I have one offer that is paying $80/hr base + $11/RVU (average $200-230 per recruiter), but everyone I've spoken to said it will likely be under $200 since I will be a new attending. This also sounds strangely low for Texas, but I am unsure as I've heard Tx jobs also are hard to come by now.

Does anyone know the market in San Antonio? Would appreciate some help. You can also PM me. Thanks!!!

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I am looking for a PRN job in San Antonio. Since I am doing a fellowship that is mainly M-F 8-5, I am limited to only working Saturdays and Sundays (AM/PM shifts only, no overnights due to fellowship schedule). Looking to do 3-4 shifts per month at a busy place where I won't lose my skills and also double covered (no rural places, freestandings, etc).

I have one offer that is paying $80/hr base + $11/RVU (average $200-230 per recruiter), but everyone I've spoken to said it will likely be under $200 since I will be a new attending. This also sounds strangely low for Texas, but I am unsure as I've heard Tx jobs also are hard to come by now.

Does anyone know the market in San Antonio? Would appreciate some help. You can also PM me. Thanks!!!

San Antonio used to pay $250+ a few years ago. USUCKS came in and bought up one of the bigger companies, so now rates below $200 are the norm.
 
uh, did you mean 180/hr base perhaps? not 80/hr?
 
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uh, did you mean 180/hr base perhaps? not 80/hr?

The recruiter said $80 and I confirmed with her several times. Also my academic attendings said they get about 3-4 RVUs per shift, but maybe community gets a lot more. All of this just didn’t make sense to me, as I don’t get how an average attending can get 11-14 RVUs on a 10 hour shift (to get to $200-230/hr).

Maybe I should ask her to email her director and make sure it’s not $180 + RVU?
 
The recruiter said $80 and I confirmed with her several times. Also my academic attendings said they get about 3-4 RVUs per shift, but maybe community gets a lot more. All of this just didn’t make sense to me, as I don’t get how an average attending can get 11-14 RVUs on a 10 hour shift (to get to $200-230/hr).

Maybe I should ask her to email her director and make sure it’s not $180 + RVU?

Do you mean RVUs/hour? Each E&M is ~1.4 to 3.8, crit care 4.5, (i.e. that amount per patient). You may already realize this, but since your phrasing is ambiguous and other people might read this: the recruiter is offering $11 per RVU, not an increase in hourly pay by $11/hr per RVU.
 
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Do you mean RVUs/hour? Each E&M is ~1.4 to 3.8, crit care 4.5, obs (i.e. that amount per patient). You may already realize this, but since your phrasing is ambiguous and other people might read this: the recruiter is offering $11 per RVU, not an increase in hourly pay by $11/hr per RVU.

This is a great point here. I think I may be confused myself about what I am actually getting.

I think the recruiter said $80 base per hour + increase in hourly pay by $11/hr/RVU. If this is the case, would this be fair?

Also, can you explain a little more regarding RVUs/hr? From your example, let's just say each patient averages to 2.5 RVUs and I see 2 PPH for a total of 5 RVUs/hr. That means that I will only get $55/hr more in addition to my base of $80 right? Maybe I am not reading this correctly, but I can't see how to get to $200-230/hr from a base of $80 with RVUs.
 
I am looking for a PRN job in San Antonio. Since I am doing a fellowship that is mainly M-F 8-5, I am limited to only working Saturdays and Sundays (AM/PM shifts only, no overnights due to fellowship schedule). Looking to do 3-4 shifts per month at a busy place where I won't lose my skills and also double covered (no rural places, freestandings, etc).

I have one offer that is paying $80/hr base + $11/RVU (average $200-230 per recruiter), but everyone I've spoken to said it will likely be under $200 since I will be a new attending. This also sounds strangely low for Texas, but I am unsure as I've heard Tx jobs also are hard to come by now.

Does anyone know the market in San Antonio? Would appreciate some help. You can also PM me. Thanks!!!
My understanding is this is correct. $80/hr base pay with RVUs avg about $200-220 hourly. Maybe more, likely less. Avg and median are two different things...

San Antonio has better jobs; you won’t find them as a new grad. Too much in flux at the moment as I’ve heard.
 
San Antonio is pretty saturated...that's all I'm going to say about that. It's unfortunate. Texas as a whole is jam-packed. Seeing a lot of offers for $170-185ish per hour. Lame.
 
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San Antonio is pretty saturated...that's all I'm going to say about that. It's unfortunate. Texas as a whole is jam-packed. Seeing a lot of offers for $170-185ish per hour. Lame.

Good thing four more residency programs are coming to Texas.
 
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80/hr + $11/rvu is a pathetically low paying job. That's literally the worst of both models (hourly vs straight productivity based). If it's slow for you, you will barely make over 100/hr. If you're pushing 3 pts/hr for the entire shift and they're all reasonably high acuity, say half lvl 4 and half lvl 5 (3.32 RVUs for a lvl 4 and 4.89 RVU for a lvl 5) averages out to 4.1 RVU/pt * 3pts/hr = 12.315 RVU/hr which gets you 12.315*11 + 80 = $215/hr. For 3 pts an hour which are all complex.

If you're seeing 3 pts an hour which are all lvl 4 or 5, you should either not be working there, or should be getting paid well over $300/hr.

This of course all assumes that they give you $11 per TOTAL RVU generated, not just wRVU, which would be even less.

TL;DR: this job sucks.
 
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Many on this site said, for many years, “screw you all Texas is amazing, super high pay and minimal liability”. And everyone believed it and came. Then the free standings began to close and things started to look a little more like Denver then they did like Dallas.
Note to self: Don’t talk up California’s amazing EM environment. Talk about wildfires, taxes, and bans on high capacity magazines.
In all seriousness, though, it sucks to see the change in markets across the country. My area is changing as well. No more shift bonuses - those are long gone. Hoping the best for all hard working EPs across the country.
 
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80/hr + $11/rvu is a pathetically low paying job. That's literally the worst of both models (hourly vs straight productivity based). If it's slow for you, you will barely make over 100/hr. If you're pushing 3 pts/hr for the entire shift and they're all reasonably high acuity, say half lvl 4 and half lvl 5 (3.32 RVUs for a lvl 4 and 4.89 RVU for a lvl 5) averages out to 4.1 RVU/pt * 3pts/hr = 12.315 RVU/hr which gets you 12.315*11 + 80 = $215/hr. For 3 pts an hour which are all complex.

TL;DR: this job sucks.

USUCS to be specific
 
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Yeah the Texas market has changed drastically in the past 3 years. It went from hiring poorly trained non EM docs to staff a difficult to work place to having an overabundance of new grads. Crazy fast change. I knew it would change just because the rates were not sustainable but much faster than I thought.

Oh well, things always change in life so docs must change too or they get left with slim pickings.

If any EM boarded docs in the Austin/SA/Houston Triangle want a nice FSER environment to cover some shifts, email me.
 
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80/hr + $11/rvu is a pathetically low paying job. That's literally the worst of both models (hourly vs straight productivity based). If it's slow for you, you will barely make over 100/hr. If you're pushing 3 pts/hr for the entire shift and they're all reasonably high acuity, say half lvl 4 and half lvl 5 (3.32 RVUs for a lvl 4 and 4.89 RVU for a lvl 5) averages out to 4.1 RVU/pt * 3pts/hr = 12.315 RVU/hr which gets you 12.315*11 + 80 = $215/hr. For 3 pts an hour which are all complex.

If you're seeing 3 pts an hour which are all lvl 4 or 5, you should either not be working there, or should be getting paid well over $300/hr.

This of course all assumes that they give you $11 per TOTAL RVU generated, not just wRVU, which would be even less.

TL;DR: this job sucks.

80/hr. Aren’t CRNAs getting that plus bonus in SA, Tx? How does that even work?
 
80/hr is ridiculous. What if you work an overnight shift and its slow? Working in the hospital, The floor should be $150/hr just to be presents IMO.
 
Here's a dumb question.

ACEP, as we know, is completely run by CMGs. The people who sit on the boards work for CMGs. The docs who pay dues to ACEP work for CMGs.

One would think with rapidly dropping CMG salaries (i.e. Texas), ACEP constituents would pressure the organization to address this problem. I would expect an outrage on the part of ACEP members.

Any thoughts?
 
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Here's a dumb question.

ACEP, as we know, is completely run by CMGs. The people who sit on the boards work for CMGs. The docs who pay dues to ACEP work for CMGs.

One would think with rapidly dropping CMG salaries (i.e. Texas), ACEP constituents would pressure the organization to address this problem. I would expect an outrage on the part of ACEP members.

Any thoughts?
On the em docs forum some dude posted a letter sent to all “providers” about their upcoming changes. It was a lot of business speak for your ass is about to get a paycut. You should find it if you can. I’ll see if I can find it and copy the text here. It’s getting real out there.
 
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Make no mistake. We are living in a time of a dangerous deflationary healthcare microeconomic environment. It is a perfect storm of increased educational debt-loads (beware of delayed gratification lifestyle inflation compounding of cash flow crunch and debt slavery), increased volumes and risk dumping into the ED minefield making the needles in the larger haystack harder to find, and intense downward pressure on reimbursement for the increased risk at a time of imminent need for tort reform.

As K Kay Moody has often said, we need to collaborate on taking back our leadership roles in our now patient and administrator driven healthcare system...

I repost a letter that I and many others in corporate emergency contracted healthcare received recently that is a sign of these times. No judgement. It is what it is. It just doesn’t need to, nor is it able to continue on the path we are on..:

“Greetings and Happy New Year!

As we head into the New Year, I wanted to take the opportunity to share with you some of my thoughts about the state of our profession and its impact on each of us as providers and TeamHeath overall.
As I look back on the 40 years since we founded TeamHealth, I can honestly say that I have not seen a time when our profession has encountered as many significant challenges as we currently face. As an industry and a profession, we are presently under assault on a variety of fronts that will inevitably reshape and reform the practice of hospital-based professional services – inclusive of emergency medicine, hospital medicine and anesthesia. These challenges include declining volumes brought on by the rise of consumerism and high-deductible health plans (HDHP), competitive pressures from the proliferation of alternative care sites, unilateral reimbursement cuts imposed by managed care companies in the pursuit of profits, and legislators who increasingly devalue our profession as the 24/7 safety net for the poor and vulnerable. Given all of this, more than ever, I am proud that TeamHealth is here to stand up for our collective interests and advocate not only on our behalf, but more importantly, for the patients we have the privilege to serve.
This changing landscape and the well-documented payer challenges we face as a profession require that together we take actions and implement necessary changes to preserve the safety net for our patients, protect our clinicians to the greatest extent possible in the near-term, and sustain our viability as an organization over the long haul. In this regard, I will not mislead you - these necessary changes will involve sacrifices from every one of us – clinicians, clients, leadership and the national support center staff alike.
Over the weeks to come, you will be hearing more details about the structural and environmental factors creating the need for change, the significant impact of these headwinds on the company’s and our profession’s viability, and the well-thought-out plans to address these challenges head-on.
As we move forward together in this time of great uncertainty, there are things of which you can be certain:
· TeamHealth will continue to work tirelessly to stand up for all providers (and our profession) against the false narrative emerging in the press and the nefarious intent of certain payers;
· In taking on these challenges and implementing necessary changes, we will be open and transparent in all matters, and at all times;
· Sacrifices will be made at all levels of the organization, starting first and foremost with company leadership; and
· As brighter days emerge (and they will), we will together share in the return to prosperity and growth.
Physician founded and physician-led to this day, TeamHealth is well-positioned to not only survive during these challenging times, but to thrive as together we will outperform others who are either less prepared, or less able, to adapt to the changes and manage through the headwinds. While our culture no doubt will be tested by the many challenges we face, I know it is a culture that was built over forty years precisely to endure such a time as this. While many things are changing around us, our culture and values we hold dear will remain unchanged.
In closing, I want to offer my sincere thanks to each of you for the tremendous work you do every day taking care of the patients who count on us in their time of greatest need and vulnerability. It is a privilege to be your colleague.”
 
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I would really like to hear what 'sacrificies' TeamHealth leadership are going to make? Cuts in bonuses? one less vacation to Tahiti every year?
 
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TH is the cheapest I have ever seen. They wanted me to cover shifts for them. Offered a decent rate and I asked to travel/hotel costs. They told me that they do not pay for traveling expense? WTH. Seriously?

Anyhow, I called them on it so they just increased my rate. But seriously, what kind of policy is this?
 
80/hr is ridiculous. What if you work an overnight shift and its slow? Working in the hospital, The floor should be $150/hr just to be presents IMO.

I get paid more than $80/hr to moonlight as a resident in my academic hospital for the hospitalists answering nurse pages. Getting paid that as an EM attending is ridiculous!
 
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I would really like to hear what 'sacrificies' TeamHealth leadership are going to make? Cuts in bonuses? one less vacation to Tahiti every year?
the private equity shop that owns them throws $20million (not an error) bday parties.. next year will only be $18m. The struggle is real!
 
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How low can all this get? CMGs, new residencies every year, AND government pressure on reimbursements? I can't imagine we get to a place where we are getting paid Urgent Care money or no one will do the job.
 
People will do the job. Because they have to. Because they're financially illiterate and need to continue to be a wage slave.
How low can all this get? CMGs, new residencies every year, AND government pressure on reimbursements? I can't imagine we get to a place where we are getting paid Urgent Care money or no one will do the job.

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APPs will fill the gap and with less debt and lower expected earnings are happy to do so.
 
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Like all market forces, there will come an equilibrium where there will be enough docs willing to work the lowered range. Just like every other market forces. The only way to change rate is to either change supply or change demand.

Supply keeps going up with new residencies/MLP. Demand keeps going up with an aging/growing population.

Where that rate is anyone's guess.

In Texas 3 yrs ago that rate was over 300/hr with shifts offered at 500-600+/hr. That ship has sailed today but maybe there in 5 yrs.

Whatever happens, I suspect rates will fluctuate between $150-250/hr atleast in Texas. At $150/hr, most docs would rather just work UC, locums somewhere, or go work for alittle less in sleepy places.
 
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Like all market forces, there will come an equilibrium where there will be enough docs willing to work the lowered range. Just like every other market forces. The only way to change rate is to either change supply or change demand.

Supply keeps going up with new residencies/MLP. Demand keeps going up with an aging/growing population.

Where that rate is anyone's guess.

In Texas 3 yrs ago that rate was over 300/hr with shifts offered at 500-600+/hr. That ship has sailed today but maybe there in 5 yrs.

Whatever happens, I suspect rates will fluctuate between $150-250/hr atleast in Texas. At $150/hr, most docs would rather just work UC, locums somewhere, or go work for alittle less in sleepy places.

Until those sleepy places want to start paying $75-100/hr, as some of them already are. At which point you're making the same as a specialty RN on overtime pay.
 
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Like all market forces, there will come an equilibrium where there will be enough docs willing to work the lowered range. Just like every other market forces. The only way to change rate is to either change supply or change demand.

Supply keeps going up with new residencies/MLP. Demand keeps going up with an aging/growing population.

Where that rate is anyone's guess.

In Texas 3 yrs ago that rate was over 300/hr with shifts offered at 500-600+/hr. That ship has sailed today but maybe there in 5 yrs.

Whatever happens, I suspect rates will fluctuate between $150-250/hr atleast in Texas. At $150/hr, most docs would rather just work UC, locums somewhere, or go work for alittle less in sleepy places.

Is there anyway to get statistics on how many hospitals are opening? I mean that's were 98% of all of us can work. I really doubt it's even anywhere close enough to cover the amount of new graduates/new residencies. The second option is filling spots of the Non-BCEM docs, but then you're forced into taking those tiny salaries anyway.
 
Like all market forces, there will come an equilibrium where there will be enough docs willing to work the lowered range. Just like every other market forces. The only way to change rate is to either change supply or change demand.

Supply keeps going up with new residencies/MLP. Demand keeps going up with an aging/growing population.

Where that rate is anyone's guess.

In Texas 3 yrs ago that rate was over 300/hr with shifts offered at 500-600+/hr. That ship has sailed today but maybe there in 5 yrs.

Whatever happens, I suspect rates will fluctuate between $150-250/hr atleast in Texas. At $150/hr, most docs would rather just work UC, locums somewhere, or go work for alittle less in sleepy places.
Again, a few things.. 1) the population is aging but what is happening is siphoning off high money insured patients. Be it the urgent cares, walkin clinics etc. Last year data for 2018 showed ED visits flat to down for the first time ever.

What I will say is that these specific market forces dont matter if you are in an SDG. I tell this to my residents all the time. I wouldnt take a huge discount to work at an SDG but if it is a fair one I would take a little less for the control, security and upside. They could literally mind 10k ED docs a year and nothing would change for me. The dumping of docs is there and real. Also, more MLPs. the population can grow but there are EDs with 3 MLPs to 1 doc. Insanity for sure IMO but its there.
 
Is there anyway to get statistics on how many hospitals are opening? I mean that's were 98% of all of us can work. I really doubt it's even anywhere close enough to cover the amount of new graduates/new residencies. The second option is filling spots of the Non-BCEM docs, but then you're forced into taking those tiny salaries anyway.
Yep this.. not many hospitals opening. I mean lets say 10 opened.. then what.. also you know what.. hospitals are CLOSING. Good Rural hospital closures.


113 CLOSED in 2019..

Most hospitals are expanding and it is tough to know what this means for us. The closing of FSEDs has hurt texas. I think in the end we will have jobs but I think outside of a few they will be more transient, worse pay and less convenient. Thre poeple who graduate have no choice but to work. When i graduated pay was $180/hr in a lot of places. they filled. If the overall market paid $180/hr guess what people will work there. I hear $200 and under is the rate in Houston. $300+ wasnt crazy not too long ago.
 
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What I will say is that these specific market forces dont matter if you are in an SDG. I tell this to my residents all the time. I wouldnt take a huge discount to work at an SDG but if it is a fair one I would take a little less for the control, security and upside. They could literally mind 10k ED docs a year and nothing would change for me. The dumping of docs is there and real. Also, more MLPs. the population can grow but there are EDs with 3 MLPs to 1 doc. Insanity for sure IMO but its there.
I think virtually everyone I know would prefer to work for a SDG. The biggest issue is A) these jobs don't exist anymore and B) there is a worry that even if they do exist, in a matter of weeks of being hired on they will be bought out.

Are SDGs that much more expensive than a CMG for hospitals?
 
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I think virtually everyone I know would prefer to work for a SDG. The biggest issue is A) these jobs don't exist anymore and B) there is a worry that even if they do exist, in a matter of weeks of being hired on they will be bought out.

Are SDGs that much more expensive than a CMG for hospitals?

No. The hospitals generally don't pay anything to the group, with a few exceptions where they pay stipends to staff low-volume EDs. Hospitals only care about metrics, and CMGS have slick sales pitches about how they will improve patient satisfaction, LWBS, and length of stay. They make a compelling argument to hospital CEOS to switch. Generally if metrics improve then hospital admins get a bigger bonus which is all they care about.
 
I don’t know about that. I heard Memorial Hermann was going to hire them as IC’s. What did you hear exactly?
The main site is staffed by UTPhysicians. They were asked to take over the rest is what I heard. MH isn't hiring the docs at TMC.
 
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I think virtually everyone I know would prefer to work for a SDG. The biggest issue is A) these jobs don't exist anymore and B) there is a worry that even if they do exist, in a matter of weeks of being hired on they will be bought out.

Are SDGs that much more expensive than a CMG for hospitals?
SDGs cost the hospital nothing. The way CMGs swoop in and steal contracts is by agreeing to do extra, like subsidizing hospitalist pay.
 
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I don’t know about that. I heard Memorial Hermann was going to hire them as IC’s. What did you hear exactly?
Looked into it. Sounds like you're right for everywhere but downtown.
 
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Takes a fair bit of effort to keep the cmgs at bay. Many seasoned ceos understand that overall cmgs offer a crappy product but the neophytes fall for the business speak and glossy brochures.
 
I heard that UT is keeping the TMC campus and the peripheral campuses will be staffed by MHMG (hospital group) as IC. Does team health not have non competes built into their contacts? Or are these non enforceable in Texas ?
 
I’m pretty sure they do have non compete clauses in their contracts. Enforceability depends on whether you have the resources to pursue people in court, which I suppose team health still has....

I heard most of the docs that were working for team health there were out of a job, I’m assuming it’s because of the non compete.


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I’m pretty sure they do have non compete clauses in their contracts. Enforceability depends on whether you have the resources to pursue people in court, which I suppose team health still has....

I heard most of the docs that were working for team health there were out of a job, I’m assuming it’s because of the non compete.


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Ouch. The MH admin claims that they are keeping the majority of staff.
 
I haven't seen an EM contract in Texas with a noncompete clause. They may exist, but I haven't seen one in the dozens of contracts I've looked at.
With the market tightening it may be more common now, but I've signed a couple contracts in the last 3 months that didn't have them.
 
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I haven't seen an EM contract in Texas with a noncompete clause. They may exist, but I haven't seen one in the dozens of contracts I've looked at.
With the market tightening it may be more common now, but I've signed a couple contracts in the last 3 months that didn't have them.
Post employment restrictive covenants (PERCs) may be illegal for docs. They are in some states. one of the things the CMGs do (and you might not be aware) is they make the hospital pay XX dollars to retain the current docs if they CMG changes.

So for example lets say I was hired byTH in the contract between TH and the hospital it would have language stating how hard it is to recruit and the costs involved Etc. If the hospital wants to hire me away or for me to work in the hospital for anyone but TH the hospital has to pay TH 100k. This allows CMGs to retain control of the docs and locks in the hospital to the CMG cause then they risk either paying out a ton of money OR having their whole ED staff turnover. Neither of these is terribly desireable to ahospital.
 
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