Salary in Singapore

[DrIng]

Hello everyone, I know this has been asked before but does anyone have any idea how much a junior doctor earns in Singapore? Cost of living appears manageable especially if you don't have a car which seems reasonable given their excellent public transport and I've found out abotua coomodation costs but what elludes me is how much you get paid? Any ideas? Thanks.

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[Purifyer]

I'm also very interested in knowing

 

[DrIng]

Ah-Ha! I went to an information session ont eh weekend. The abse rate payfor a medical officer, someone who ahs compelted internship- like a PGY2 is S$3500 sinaporean dollars per month and they then pay a S$750 per month accomodation allowance and various other variable rate bonuses. SO in short the pay is reasonable but less than in places like Australia. Hope this helps people. Also the following link was provided
www.LOKUN.nhg.com.sg

 

[Purifyer]

Ah-Ha! I went to an information session ont eh weekend. The abse rate payfor a medical officer, someone who ahs compelted internship- like a PGY2 is S$3500 sinaporean dollars per month and they then pay a S$750 per month accomodation allowance and various other variable rate bonuses. SO in short the pay is reasonable but less than in places like Australia. Hope this helps people. Also the following link was provided
www.LOKUN.nhg.com.sg

Singapore PGY-2

total salary per year before tax S$51000
tax S$2008
=$48992*
* For residents of singapore. Foreigners would have to pay $7650 in tax for a total $43350 total. I think 15% flat rate tax for foreigners, or the local system, whichever is higher

Australia PGY-1

total salary per year before tax (using the http://www.amsa.org.au/docs/interim_IRG_2004.pdf) = $42,692
tax = AUD 8979.60
total salary after tax = 33712.14
= S$45110


total salary per year after tax(using your number of $900 pw -how many hours did you work /week and was it urban or rural?) = AUD$43200
= S$53,177.12

NZ PGY-1 Assuming 40 hour work week in urban hospital

total salary per year before tax = NZD$50,000
tax NZD$11,370
total salary per year after tax = NZD$38630
= S$44,004

Goddamn what happened to the sing dollar! When I was there over christmas it was equal to the NZD. Still I think I have shown that the singapore PGY-2 salary is at least equivalent to Aus/NZ PGY-1 when tax is taken into account.

Also Dr Ing, was that salary quoted with a 40 hour work week? How much was overtime compensated for/expected of? Plus, I'm not even sure that the sing accommodation benefit is taxable or how that is handled.

Granted there are many flaws in such a simplified view of the tax system (eg. Dr Ing's mentioned 'sacrifical pay' in another post is not accounted for in this), granted singapore's cost of living is probably higher (But how much higher if you don't own a car?).

 

[DrIng]

Sorry, the $900 in Australia was an after tax salary for about 50 hours a week of work. (Working in South Australia) The salary in Singapore is for about a 60+ hour week they estimated. But yes the decline in the Singapore $ doesn't help, it was certainly on par with the Australian $ when I was there a while back... I guess all this means is that if you go to Singapore it's for reasons other than the money. Oh, they also mentioned that an itnern would earn around $2800 p.m. So that's really what the $900 p.w. should be compared against... And with intern places there are reportedly about 270 intern places and 200 local graduates so that's 70 places available for internationals... Hope this helps people.

 

[Purifyer]

Anyway Dr Ing, thanks so much for the info

Keep us posted on what you get up to!

 

[Singh]

Purifyer: Is the tax in singapore really that low?

Also I have read that when working in S'pore, one has to pay 20% of one's salary to the state (for pension or the like?). Are these 20% included in your estimate?

Best regards, Singh.

 

[Purifyer]

Purifyer: Is the tax in singapore really that low?

Also I have read that when working in S'pore, one has to pay 20% of one's salary to the state (for pension or the like?). Are these 20% included in your estimate?

Best regards, Singh.

Don't quote me on this, but the CPF (central providence fund, which I presume you are talking about) is no longer compulsory for foreigners. This is perhaps more a bad thing as you can get tax discounts/incentives for putting into the CPF.

Even if it is compulsory (which I do not think so) the CPF is still your money, just in government hands. You can withdraw from it to buy a house, car etc afaik. When/If you leave singapore you can withdraw all your money from the CPF.

There is another account called medisave which is like the CPF although I am unsure if foreigners have to particpate (I doubt it, I presume they are just required to have health insurance?)

 

[Purifyer]

Does anyone know of the salary of a senior doctor in singapore and the scope for private practice? I've been scouring the net for some time but no success so far

 

[sjkpark]

Singapore PGY-2

total salary per year before tax S$51000
tax S$2008
=$48992*
* For residents of singapore. Foreigners would have to pay $7650 in tax for a total $43350 total. I think 15% flat rate tax for foreigners, or the local system, whichever is higher

Australia PGY-1

total salary per year before tax (using the http://www.amsa.org.au/docs/interim_IRG_2004.pdf) = $42,692
tax = AUD 8979.60
total salary after tax = 33712.14
= S$45110


total salary per year after tax(using your number of $900 pw -how many hours did you work /week and was it urban or rural?) = AUD$43200
= S$53,177.12

NZ PGY-1 Assuming 40 hour work week in urban hospital

total salary per year before tax = NZD$50,000
tax NZD$11,370
total salary per year after tax = NZD$38630
= S$44,004

Man, $50,000 sounds just way too low.... Most of my friends in Auckland are logging over $60K as PGY-1. There are lots of ways to avoid taxmen too, like creating a loss-making company.

There's no way I'm going to pay more tax than I absolutely have to. I studied with no government benefit (student allowance, accommodation benefit, etc) and I'm not going to pay for other people to have it.

I don't know much about the salary in Singapore per se, but quite a few people in Auckland worked in Singapore. There's a senior lecturer in surgery who worked there for 20+ years (he's English) and I think our professor of surgery worked there as did his wife (a gastroenterologist). Personally can't imagine living there forever.

Aren't you going to do PGY-1 here, Purifyer? You would have to (or Aussie) if you want NZ General Registration right? Singapore doesn't seem to be first place of choice, even for Malaysian international students. Many Malaysians go there because they can't get jobs here. My TI (a very nice competent fellow) was going there - didn't get job thru ACE.

 

[Purifyer]

Man, $50,000 sounds just way too low.... Most of my friends in Auckland are logging over $60K as PGY-1. There are lots of ways to avoid taxmen too, like creating a loss-making company.

There's no way I'm going to pay more tax than I absolutely have to. I studied with no government benefit (student allowance, accommodation benefit, etc) and I'm not going to pay for other people to have it.

I don't know much about the salary in Singapore per se, but quite a few people in Auckland worked in Singapore. There's a senior lecturer in surgery who worked there for 20+ years (he's English) and I think our professor of surgery worked there as did his wife (a gastroenterologist). Personally can't imagine living there forever.

Aren't you going to do PGY-1 here, Purifyer? You would have to (or Aussie) if you want NZ General Registration right? Singapore doesn't seem to be first place of choice, even for Malaysian international students. Many Malaysians go there because they can't get jobs here. My TI (a very nice competent fellow) was going there - didn't get job thru ACE.

I'm almost certainly going to be doing PGY-1 in NZ, but that's mainly due to the fact my wife is a few years behind me in med school. Maybe it's a pipe dream to work in Singapore...

In general I am dissatisfied with the government's attitude towards (junior) doctors in NZ. It seems to alternate between 'They will be rich so screw 'em for all they're worth' and apathy. A comment by Steve Maharey about 2 weeks ago really sums it up for me. As he was talking about growing levels of student debt he mentioned in passing 'There's no point in increasing junior doctor salaries as they will leave NZ anyway' [paraphrase].

The submission for an increased TI grant is doomed under such an opinion. All the while I see teachers, nurses, allied health professional salaries increase year by year, to the point that technically a primary school teacher fresh out of a 3 year degree is making the equivalent to a house surgeon (working a mythical 40 hour week albeit). The difference being of course that the house surgeon is 3-6 years older, and about $70,000 more in debt.

So, NZ has comparatively lower salaries, a moderately high taxation and a general tall poppy syndrome (who cares they are graduating with the equivalent of a mortgage at 24, they're doctors!) that bothers me.

Australia on the other hand has higher salaries for senior doctors (in private practice from what I can gather, I'm not sure about public/academic), but crazy taxation issues.

Singapore has very low taxes, and relatively low salaries for junior doctors. I assume that they expect you to work alot harder than aust/nz (eg. 60 hours is the mythical base pay rate, as opposed to 40 here) and I assume that junior doctors in Singapore have alot less autonomy/responsibility (from my ignorant view of chinese culture in general). Combined with this is the fact that the cost of living in Singapore is [sky?] high... and things aren't looking too rosey.

I'm interested in a surgical subspeciality. One of the problems with this speciality is that (from what I have read) it is expected for you to rotate around various hospitals in Australia and/or NZ with a maximum length of stay in one place of 2 years. I can't uproot my family every 2 years to a different city, especially when my wife is also eventually going to be training and cannot just leave at the drop of a hat.

Which is one of the attractions of Singapore - it is a city. I can hardly see their training requirements forcing me to move my wife (and future children) on city hopping expeditions. Another attraction of Singapore to me is the Government's interest in cultivating health care and the biotech industry, at the moment Singapore seems to be the medical hub of the asian region. Finally (from what I have read) their surgical training is based on the Australasian model (or UK if you prefer) and (I assume) is considered equivalent with admission into RACS (I assume).

 

[sjkpark]

Do you speak Chinese/Malay? I remember my surgery senior lecturer (a quintessential Englishman who went to Singapore as a registrar) telling us that he could not have survived their as a junior house staff.

I'm aiming for a combined academic-(public hospital) clinician career. So I don't think I'll be making a fortune wherever I go. Much better idea for me to think of the ways to decrease tax and smart ways to invest my earnings.

Hey, I don't know what subspecialty you want to get into, but if it is something competitive like ENT/ortho/plastics, wouldn't Singaporeans take their own first? Not to discourage you, but that's what's happening pretty much everywhere else in the world.

I don't mind paying for my own education. I believe that, compared to other countries, we're getting off lightly. I know many junior doctors who successfully paid off their near-6 figure loans in first 5 years and now supporting their family/buying house/investing in ostrich farm/whatever.

What I do mind is how easy it is to fool our social welfare system and bludge off government in various allowances, and many of those who are doing it have no qualms about leaving NZ at the end of training! I won 2 academic prizes (granted, they were not extremely prestigious, but welcome addition to my barren CV) at the end of my pre-clinical years and got grand total of $250. Neither do I qualify for any government allowances, because my parents work 60+ hours a week. On the flip side, one of my friends, whose parents are comfortably retired, is getting student allowance at the top bracket AND got $3000 on University Access Award (for which you are eligible only if you are already on student allowances).

It's ridiculous. I got into UNSW medicine as well (straight from school), and I would be eligible for Ausstudy or whatever they have by now had I decided to hop across the ditch.

We don't encourage academic excellence in this country. Instead we encourage complacency and dependency, thanks to a poll-driven government. That's why I think somebody like John Banks (who doesn't give a flying fig about what others say about him) should be our PM.

I think NZMSA is wasting their time trying to increase TI grant/student allowance. It ain't going to happen under National (who put us in this place in the first place) nor Labour (who are continuing to screw the working people they claim to represent). I don't think $15,000 will do ANYTHING to make those in 6-figure debt stay here. Let's face it, TIs don't do much. And those people who are determined to leave the country will regardless of their debt level, and good luck to them. The grass may be greener on the other side, but may not be edible.

The only solution to junior doctor retention problem is to bring back the bonding scheme, which will help those who are really committed to this country stay in this country, for better or worse.

Right, time for me to get off the soap box.

 

[Purifyer]

Do you speak Chinese/Malay? I remember my surgery senior lecturer (a quintessential Englishman who went to Singapore as a registrar) telling us that he could not have survived their as a junior house staff.

I speak simple chinese very badly

I'm aiming for a combined academic-(public hospital) clinician career. So I don't think I'll be making a fortune wherever I go. Much better idea for me to think of the ways to decrease tax and smart ways to invest my earnings.

Hey, I don't know what subspecialty you want to get into, but if it is something competitive like ENT/ortho/plastics, wouldn't Singaporeans take their own first? Not to discourage you, but that's what's happening pretty much everywhere else in the world.

Of course. I have no illusions that I can hop skip and jump into my career, wherever I go (surgical subspecialities are bad enough to get into here!).

What I do mind is how easy it is to fool our social welfare system and bludge off government in various allowances, and many of those who are doing it have no qualms about leaving NZ at the end of training! I won 2 academic prizes (granted, they were not extremely prestigious, but welcome addition to my barren CV) at the end of my pre-clinical years and got grand total of $250. Neither do I qualify for any government allowances, because my parents work 60+ hours a week. On the flip side, one of my friends, whose parents are comfortably retired, is getting student allowance at the top bracket AND got $3000 on University Access Award (for which you are eligible only if you are already on student allowances).

I haven't heard of the University Access Award, is that only for Auckland Uni? The thing that irritates me regarding student allowance/loan is that for many students it makes no difference what their parents are earning, because they were kicked out at 18 and told to fend for themselves once they got into uni.

I think NZMSA is wasting their time trying to increase TI grant/student allowance. It ain't going to happen under National (who put us in this place in the first place) nor Labour (who are continuing to screw the working people they claim to represent). I don't think $15,000 will do ANYTHING to make those in 6-figure debt stay here. Let's face it, TIs don't do much. And those people who are determined to leave the country will regardless of their debt level, and good luck to them. The grass may be greener on the other side, but may not be edible.

The only solution to junior doctor retention problem is to bring back the bonding scheme, which will help those who are really committed to this country stay in this country, for better or worse.

Right, time for me to get off the soap box.

The only matriculants I think should be bonded are (i) Mental Health matriculants (to go into a mental health related discipline) (ii) Rural matriculants (to go into a rural health setting) and perhaps even MAPAS matriculants (these places are ostensibly to ensure that maori/PI have equal access to healthcare, don't have to have a white/asian doctor as their GP etc. I don't see how MAPAS grads flying off to the Gold Coast to practice plastics are achieving that goal...

 

[sjkpark]

I haven't heard of the University Access Award, is that only for Auckland Uni?

Yup, it is. And it's parental income tested *sigh*. Not based on merit either. You have to earn decent grades, but a lot of people I know who got them aren't that much of scholars.

The only matriculants I think should be bonded are (i) Mental Health matriculants (to go into a mental health related discipline) (ii) Rural matriculants (to go into a rural health setting) and perhaps even MAPAS matriculants (these places are ostensibly to ensure that maori/PI have equal access to healthcare, don't have to have a white/asian doctor as their GP etc. I don't see how MAPAS grads flying off to the Gold Coast to practice plastics are achieving that goal...

Well, let's agree to disagree then. I don't agree with discipline-specific bonding schemes, because many of us didn't know what we were getting ourselves into when we were 18 and naive. I thought I was going to be a GP when I came in and now that's the last thing I want to be.

There are a lot of creative ways to reward those who choose to stay here. Like making student loan payments tax-deductable. If there is a logic behind NZMSA's argument that many young doctors are leaving the country ONLY because of high student debt (while this may be true, many leave this country simply out of selfishness), they should reward everybody who choose to stay here, not just specific sub-groups. Increasing TI grant may help those in need, but also provide convinient cash for those who are dead set on leaving this country hours after their qualifying ceremony. I don't want my tax dollars going to the latter group.