salary in austrailia/New Zealand

[realruby2000]

anyone know how much do doctors make per year in austrailia/NZ? are they comphensated prettty well like in the US? I'm a US medical student and always thought about practicing medicne out side the country

thanks

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[redshifteffect]

Originally posted by realruby2000
anyone know how much do doctors make per year in austrailia/NZ? are they comphensated prettty well like in the US? I'm a US medical student and always thought about practicing medicne out side the country

thanks

You're going to have a really tough time getting into Australia...especially with a US residency. I'd first check the licensing laws....I have seen first hand how brutal they are here.

 

[redshifteffect]

Originally posted by flindophile
Here is a link to some recent discussion on this topic.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=87604

While there is significant variation, I think Australian physicians generally make less than US doctors. By Australian standards, Australian physicians earn a good living but, as far as I can tell, it is less than US physicians. The recent decline of the dollar has made the comparison a little more favorable for Australia -- but I think it is still economically unfavorable compared to the US.

The Australian medical community is very protective. The licensing exams for foreigners are very difficult. They have recently relaxed the rules and have allowed some Australian trained foreign students to stay in Australia for internships -- but I think you have to agree to work in rural areas. For me, life in Australia would quickly lose its appeal if I had to live in a rural area. The flies are annoying enough in Sydney!

Actually the easiest place to get an internship in is Perth...it's not exactly a rural area....and if u can sign ur 2 year contract there for an RMO position...that's an automatic PR.

From what i heard most australians don't find Perth an attractive location b/c of its tremendous distance from Melb/Sydney...though it's a fairly big city.

 

[Dr.Magic]

Starting salaries for interns in most hospitals in australia is around the 35-45,000 dollar mark. You have options to do some overtime which will bump it up a bit more.



Admin
http://www.doctors2be.com

 

[pitman]

Originally posted by Dr.Magic
Starting salaries for interns in most hospitals in australia is around the 35-45,000 dollar mark. You have options to do some overtime which will bump it up a bit more.

Presumably Australian dollars...so US$25k-$35k? Not bad.

-pitman

 

[redshifteffect]

Originally posted by pitman
Presumably Australian dollars...so US$25k-$35k? Not bad.

-pitman

Yeah but with overtime u can make a lot more.

 

[pitman]

Originally posted by redshifteffect
Yeah but with overtime u can make a lot more.

Never heard of such a thing! How many hours before overtime?

-pitman

 

[Purifyer]

I posted a table copied straight out of the reasonably new (2001?) RMO contract.

Essentially in $NZpa for new doctors:

50k for 40 hours a week
85k for 65 hours a week

If you are working in 'rural' areas I think you add an extra 5k on.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Originally posted by pitman
Never heard of such a thing! How many hours before overtime?

-pitman

"Tis true...when I was there (and granted this was a few years ago), RMOs and Registrars made around $45K AUD base pay with overtime for hours above 50 per week. Now remember... 1) departments are loathe to pay overtime for obvious reasons and will try to see to it that you get your work done during your regular hours and 2) the hours worked are less than in the US (ie, I wouldn't expect to be working 80+ hrs per week and making 30+ hrs of overtime per week).

To anwswer the OPs question, most Australian physicans can expect to make no more than $100,000 AUD per year - specialists can make more, but for the most part they are not compensated as much as US physicians (and I agree with the others, if you want to work abroad, do your residency abroad - which will make it essentially impossible to work in the US, but doing a US residency is no guarantee of being able to work abroad without foreign training).

 

[redshifteffect]

Originally posted by Kimberli Cox
"Tis true...when I was there (and granted this was a few years ago), RMOs and Registrars made around $45K AUD base pay with overtime for hours above 50 per week. Now remember... 1) departments are loathe to pay overtime for obvious reasons and will try to see to it that you get your work done during your regular hours and 2) the hours worked are less than in the US (ie, I wouldn't expect to be working 80+ hrs per week and making 30+ hrs of overtime per week).

To anwswer the OPs question, most Australian physicans can expect to make no more than $100,000 AUD per year - specialists can make more, but for the most part they are not compensated as much as US physicians (and I agree with the others, if you want to work abroad, do your residency abroad - which will make it essentially impossible to work in the US, but doing a US residency is no guarantee of being able to work abroad without foreign training).

Is that 100,000 RMOs u are talking about (as in docs that work in hospitals) or GPs? B/c as i said maybe tas in unique but all the GPs around here pull in at least 200,000 Aussie.

 

[Purifyer]

Originally posted by redshifteffect
Is that 100,000 RMOs u are talking about (as in docs that work in hospitals) or GPs? B/c as i said maybe tas in unique but all the GPs around here pull in at least 200,000 Aussie.

How do you know this Redshift? Did you actually ask or are you just doing a calculation based on pay per visit, how many pts a day.. etc? I ask because, as much as I would love that figure to be true.. it does sound excessive.

But it is tassie we're talking about

 

[Winged Scapula]

Originally posted by redshifteffect
Is that 100,000 RMOs u are talking about (as in docs that work in hospitals) or GPs? B/c as i said maybe tas in unique but all the GPs around here pull in at least 200,000 Aussie.

The $100 K is for hospitalists - Consultant level (non specialist) physicians, not RMOs. I cannot recall the reference for this butr in Oz, at least at that time, physicians were not very highly paid, at least not in comparison to the US or in light of their extended training.

However, GPs especially those in rural areas can make substantially more - I recall seeing quotes of $400K for those willing to work in the middle of no-where.

 

[redshifteffect]

Originally posted by Kimberli Cox
The $100 K is for hospitalists - Consultant level (non specialist) physicians, not RMOs. I cannot recall the reference for this butr in Oz, at least at that time, physicians were not very highly paid, at least not in comparison to the US or in light of their extended training.

However, GPs especially those in rural areas can make substantially more - I recall seeing quotes of $400K for those willing to work in the middle of no-where.

Correct me if I'm wrong but hospitalists in Australia do not have to go through the same training as consultants in a specialty....GPs are also considered specalists b/c they have a 3 year training program that they have to attend to get their FRACGP. So "hospitalists" aren't really in existance in the US since they do not require any significant amount of training to become one.

IN the US all doctors are specialists since they have to compete a residency training program to be able to practice. In Australia for hospitalists all that is required is the basic medical degree and then the one year internship.

 

[redshifteffect]

Originally posted by Purifyer
How do you know this Redshift? Did you actually ask or are you just doing a calculation based on pay per visit, how many pts a day.. etc? I ask because, as much as I would love that figure to be true.. it does sound excessive.

But it is tassie we're talking about

Both.

I posted all this stuff on another thread somewhere...trust me its' not excessive i tried looking everywhere for a GP charging less than $40 and it was impossible...the only way u will be netting less than $200,000 is if u have a significant amount of bulk billing.

Anyway all these salary things are part of the a course we have to take in first year...and most of the figures i've come up with were from that course.

I should add $200,000 is a net figure..and doesn't include costing of running the business (secretary fees and stuff..)

 

[coreyw]

Originally posted by flindophile
For me, life in Australia would quickly lose its appeal if I had to live in a rural area. The flies are annoying enough in Sydney!

That's a bit rough isn't it mate? You make it sound like all rural areas in Oz are the in Third World.

To be sure, the further inland and northwards you head, the less 'lifestyle opportunities' there are... at least, it depends what you're into.

Having travelled throughout a lot of the mainland, I can list a swag of places I wouldn't mind spending a few years in whilst I earnt my stripes... then I could go wherever I pleased, armed with some fantastic experiences and skills.

And let's face it... there are up-sides as well as down-sides to being one of the only doctors around for miles... it all depends on your outlook.

Working in (say) an Indigenous community would be both challenging and rewarding I reckon... many of those folks definitely face third world conditions... the experience would probably politicise you if nothing else.

 

[redshifteffect]

Originally posted by coreyw
That's a bit rough isn't it mate? You make it sound like all rural areas in Oz are the in Third World.

To be sure, the further inland and northwards you head, the less 'lifestyle opportunities' there are... at least, it depends what you're into.

Having travelled throughout a lot of the mainland, I can list a swag of places I wouldn't mind spending a few years in whilst I earnt my stripes... then I could go wherever I pleased, armed with some fantastic experiences and skills.

And let's face it... there are up-sides as well as down-sides to being one of the only doctors around for miles... it all depends on your outlook.

Working in (say) an Indigenous community would be both challenging and rewarding I reckon... many of those folks definitely face third world conditions... the experience would probably politicise you if nothing else.

i agree with u on that one corey... but there is another thing that i think ppl haven't brought up...thats the fact that if u are not so lucky and get a not so good residency in the US u could could end up spending time in the inner city...and i would rather spend time in the outback than the inner city ...so it really depends. U could also potentialy get a rural spot in the US...so it really depends on what u r willing to put up with.

For example most ppl think tas is a really crappy place but honestly it's one of the most scenic places i've ever been too..and i wouldn't mind spending more time here...

 

[coreyw]

Originally posted by redshifteffect
Actually the easiest place to get an internship in is Perth...it's not exactly a rural area....and if u can sign ur 2 year contract there for an RMO position...that's an automatic PR.

From what i heard most australians don't find Perth an attractive location b/c of its tremendous distance from Melb/Sydney...though it's a fairly big city.

Most Australians have never BEEN to Perth or WA at all, so what would they know...

Perth and Fremantle are a metropolitan area of about a million-plus people!!! Hardly 'rural'... but even the rural parts of south-west WA have much to offer:

some of the most amazing beaches and surf you'll ever see...
incredible live bands... (INXS and AC/DC were West Aussies)
fantastic wines and wineries...
great pubs...
great coffee shops...
beaut markets...
incredible bushland like nowhere else on Earth...
tall forests...
a very relaxed lifestyle...
low rents...
heaps of sunshine (sunny, hot summers & wet, mild winters)...

and the north-west gets even more amazing...

and if you get lonely for the good ol' US of A you can always hang
out with the boys from whatever aircraft carrier is in Freo Harbour... seriously though, there are heaps of Yanks, Brits, Canadians, South-East Asians, Mediterraneans, etc... very cosmopolitan.

I'm a West Australian living in gloomy old Melbourne (does it show?)

 

[redshifteffect]

Originally posted by coreyw
Most Australians have never BEEN to Perth or WA at all, so what would they know...

Perth and Fremantle are a metropolitan area of about a million-plus people!!! Hardly 'rural'... but even the rural parts of south-west WA have much to offer:

some of the most amazing beaches and surf you'll ever see...
incredible live bands... (INXS and AC/DC were West Aussies)
fantastic wines and wineries...
great pubs...
great coffee shops...
beaut markets...
incredible bushland like nowhere else on Earth...
tall forests...
a very relaxed lifestyle...
low rents...
heaps of sunshine (sunny, hot summers & wet, mild winters)...

and the north-west gets even more amazing...

and if you get lonely for the good ol' US of A you can always hang
out with the boys from whatever aircraft carrier is in Freo Harbour... seriously though, there are heaps of Yanks, Brits, Canadians, South-East Asians, Mediterraneans, etc... very cosmopolitan.

I'm a West Australian living in gloomy old Melbourne (does it show?)

lol man melbourne is the bomb...dont' know how u can complain of a place like that! 30C in summer..tonnes of nice ppl. on top of that awesome shopping..and don't forget st.kilda...love my time there.

 

[coreyw]

Originally posted by redshifteffect
lol man melbourne is the bomb...dont' know how u can complain of a place like that! 30C in summer..tonnes of nice ppl. on top of that awesome shopping..and don't forget st.kilda...love my time there.

Don't get me wrong, Melbourne's got plusses... (the abundance of pubs, good cycleways and the nearness to the mountains being three)

...but having lived in in three other, far sunnier states (WA, SA and Qld) Melbourne's winters are a bit much for me. I dunno, maybe I'm just prone to Seasonally Affective Disorder or just plain spoilt... it's not that the place is particularly cold (although by Australian standards it's borderline freezing)... it's the sheer dirty skeletal gloom of the joint, sigh...

St Kilda is OK, a bit up it's own arse though.

 

[redshifteffect]

Originally posted by coreyw
Don't get me wrong, Melbourne's got plusses... (the abundance of pubs, good cycleways and the nearness to the mountains being three)

...but having lived in in three other, far sunnier states (WA, SA and Qld) Melbourne's winters are a bit much for me. I dunno, maybe I'm just prone to Seasonally Affective Disorder or just plain spoilt... it's not that the place is particularly cold (although by Australian standards it's borderline freezing)... it's the sheer dirty skeletal gloom of the joint, sigh...

St Kilda is OK, a bit up it's own arse though.

lol i'm from ontario so i know nothing about sunny. heck when i first came to tassie i was surprised that the winters werent' dark and grey (and freezing) like the ones i'm used to!

 

[Dr.Magic]

Yo!

Melbourne is awesome!

Perth - well! i've been to perth when I went for my medical interview for UWA, the place shuts down at 8pm, not a soul walking the streets, that is SCARY!!!

 

[coreyw]

Originally posted by Dr.Magic
Yo!

Melbourne is awesome!

Perth - well! i've been to perth when I went for my medical interview for UWA, the place shuts down at 8pm, not a soul walking the streets, that is SCARY!!!

Not too much different from Latrobe med, Melbourne Uni or Monash mate... except without Perth's sunnier disposition.

I'm a Murdoch grad, so UWA's hallowed olde world halls never much enticed me... and Fremantle was always my favourite haunt

 

[Dr.Magic]

Hey, I think you got the wrong idea from my post. I was talking about Perth vs Melbourne, giving my visit to UWA as a point of reference - I wouldn't care when a uni shuts down for the evening

It was just that, when I went for my interview, I was staying in the city at Novotel and the whole area was dead quiet at 8pm. Apparently it is to do, with the fact that most of the population lives in their own homes in suburbs and that they prefer to have dinner at home - this reasoning is from a scottish taxi driver! who was so impressed that I called him a 'scot' and not a 'scotch'.

 

[Patchie]

closing down at 8?? yeh, i'm a queenslander, and i love the place, but growing up here, i'm sick of the ridiculous heat!!

i like going to uni in melbourne (@ Monash) - there's a LOT more to do in melbourne than bris, places often do stay open after 8pm
(in melb v bris)

in saying that tho, brisbane is getting a lot better now - last time i went out there (a thursday night) i was in a bar that didn't close until 2

coreyw... where are you at? melbourne?

 

[pitman]

Originally posted by Patchie


closing down at 8?? yeh, i'm a queenslander, and i love the place, but growing up here, i'm sick of the ridiculous heat!!

i like going to uni in melbourne (@ Monash) - there's a LOT more to do in melbourne than bris, places often do stay open after 8pm
(in melb v bris)

in saying that tho, brisbane is getting a lot better now - last time i went out there (a thursday night) i was in a bar that didn't close until 2

I was in bris a couple months ago -- everything downtown, including shopping, stayed open till at least 8. Maybe I just got lucky with time of year?

-pitman

 

[Johnny69]

Originally posted by redshifteffect
Both.

I posted all this stuff on another thread somewhere...trust me its' not excessive i tried looking everywhere for a GP charging less than $40 and it was impossible...the only way u will be netting less than $200,000 is if u have a significant amount of bulk billing.

Anyway all these salary things are part of the a course we have to take in first year...and most of the figures i've come up with were from that course.

I should add $200,000 is a net figure..and doesn't include costing of running the business (secretary fees and stuff..)

That figure is very much inflated, its too easy to say $40 x ___ Patients x ___ Days work = Income.

You mentioned $200,000 as the net, which would be indicative of a Gross in the ball park of $370,000 - $400,000. As a student with qualifications in Accounting, i gurantee your figures are not accurate, and infact very fluffy.

 

[Dr.Magic]

Patrick Mackerras conducted research on earnings for his book - "Medicine - a perspective for australian students". He talked about a government document that stated- GPs earned an average of AUD$190,000 per year, and since this book was published in 1996, we can assume the figure would be higher now - mainly because fees have gone up and bulk billing has been getting lesser as the years go by. So I think $200,000 is a good indicator of the minimum that most GPs should earn if they work their standard hours.

The same document showed figures of around $600,000 for ENT specialists (not sure if these are surgeons or not).



http://www.doctors2be.com

 

[Patchie]

yep, ENT specialists are surgeons in australia


and i suggest if you're after 'reasonably' accurate figures you search for an article that was in Australian Business Review Weekly recently (within the last month or two) it listed the incomes of australian doctors.

you will also note that doctors are a bit of secretive lot when stating earnings....

any surgeon 'worth their salt' in australia (i have been told by no less than half a dozen surgeons - shall earn a million a year (before taking out costs and taxes!!)

which probably takes them down to something ridiculous like 20,000 or something! hahah

 

[redshifteffect]

Originally posted by Patchie
yep, ENT specialists are surgeons in australia


and i suggest if you're after 'reasonably' accurate figures you search for an article that was in Australian Business Review Weekly recently (within the last month or two) it listed the incomes of australian doctors.

you will also note that doctors are a bit of secretive lot when stating earnings....

any surgeon 'worth their salt' in australia (i have been told by no less than half a dozen surgeons - shall earn a million a year (before taking out costs and taxes!!)

which probably takes them down to something ridiculous like 20,000 or something! hahah

patchie thanks for backing me up...from my own personal experiences that's what i pretty much have "heard" and seen..but no one seems to believe me.

DrB hope u have seen this thread

 

[redshifteffect]

Originally posted by Johnny69
That figure is very much inflated, its too easy to say $40 x ___ Patients x ___ Days work = Income.

You mentioned $200,000 as the net, which would be indicative of a Gross in the ball park of $370,000 - $400,000. As a student with qualifications in Accounting, i gurantee your figures are not accurate, and infact very fluffy.

that's not the only way i got my figures..i also got them from personal communication and from the average figures listen on the foundations course i took...which went through average salaries and stuff for Tasmania...

As i have said though Tasmania may pay above the national average so i have no idea what the figure is for the mainland...

 

[Johnny69]

Originally posted by redshifteffect
that's not the only way i got my figures..i also got them from personal communication and from the average figures listen on the foundations course i took...which went through average salaries and stuff for Tasmania...

As i have said though Tasmania may pay above the national average so i have no idea what the figure is for the mainland...

Just do a search through a major newspaper archive, and you will find a wealth of stories relating to doctors who are only just making ends meet.

Furthermore, there are only just under 2500 Australian residents who make $1 million + (this figure comes from the ATO), where the leading industries of these figures are from Minning, Executive Business positions, industrial chemical supplies, and investment advising and management, infact medicine was down at number 9, so the number of these $1 million doctors are few and far between. I know the CEO of the pathology company i work for is on $1 million plus list (he is a Dr.), but the specialist docs who work for the company aren't anywhere near that.

 

[Purifyer]

http://brw.com.au/stories/20031127/20979.aspx

What they earn (income after practice costs)

Non rural ob 270,166
Anaesthesia 232,347
Orthopaedic surgery 206,215
Neurosurgery 186,302

The average payment for every GP working full-time is $161,000, a comparatively modest level when compared with radiologists and pathologists. Australia has about 1200 radiologists. Medicare payments to radiologists in 2002-03 were $1.2 billion, an average of $1 million each. The story in pathology is similar, with the average pathologist taking just under $1 million in Medicare payments.

"As a rule of thumb, top cardiologists, orthopaedic surgeons and obstetricians are likely to be grossing between $500,000 and $1 million or even more. Any specialists in the 'scope' category, people like gastroenterologists, general surgeons, dermatologists, physicians, are likely to be grossing between $200,000 and $500,000 a year," a hospital director says. "[In] areas where there are shortages, like anaesthetics, it is likely to be more."

 

[redshifteffect]

Originally posted by flindophile
It seems that most of the salary data based on surveys are farily consistent. For example, GP salaries (income after expenses before tax) seems to be around 125k. Because this is an average, you would EXPECT to find variation and therefore it is not surprising that people find anecdotal evidence of GPs making high incomes. Also, these kinds of distributions are generally skewed to the right so the median income is most likely somewhat below the average.

Further, you need to consider the high Australian tax rate. According to a recent article in the Australian, taxes here are among the highest of OECD coutries. The article claimed that the effective tax rate for a family of four of median income is about 60%. Yikes!

Specialist income is generally about 2 - 2.5X of GP income.

In general, I think attempts to calculate profits based on patient turnover are prone to error; however, for those who like to do that sort of thing, here is some useful data:

http://www.fmrcbenchmarking.com.au/smallbusiness/gps.htm

As the data shows, the average physician sees 160 patients per week. Profit after taxes averages 50%. Thus, according to these calculations, an average GP makes around $160k per year after expenses before taxes.

60% tax rate? that's gotta be over inflated...as far as i know the tax rate in australia is lower than the one in Canada.

 

[Purifyer]

Originally posted by redshifteffect
60% tax rate? that's gotta be over inflated...as far as i know the tax rate in australia is lower than the one in Canada.

I was searching for it on the net three nights ago... can't remember the exact details but essentially;

~60,000+ you pay ~20,000 in tax + .47 of every dollar over 60k

I remember it came out that if you had a 200,000 salary, you pay 80k in tax.

 

[craig_rt]

Could those of you that have been stating earnings after expenses but before tax please confirm that insurance is being treated as an expense? That could make a big difference!

Thanks.

Craig

 

[mic]

Originally posted by flindophile
I think the top marginal rate is 50%.

It is 47%, kicking in at $62500. This top rate is more reasonable than it was during the pre-GST days, but let's not get into a political debate here. Just look at the official information here: http://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/content.asp?doc=/content/12333.htm&mnu=5053&mfp=001.

 

[redshifteffect]

http://brw.com.au/stories/20031127/20979.aspx

 

[Purifyer]

Originally posted by redshifteffect
http://brw.com.au/stories/20031127/20979.aspx

You're quite the detective, aren't you RSE

 

[redshifteffect]

Originally posted by Purifyer
You're quite the detective, aren't you RSE

lol always try and prove a point

 

[tl47]

Hmm... be careful there... you might have proved yourself wrong! The GP gets $100k after required bills... but note that the article itself differentiates the required cost and the taxes. If you take 47% tax off the total (before required costs), you are talking about a very low net income!

For example, a statement like the following:

Assuming they receive the average gross income of $161,000, most doctors can expect to spend between a third and half of their gross revenue on running the practice (rent, staff, equipment and so on). This leaves a pre-tax income of $80,000-100,000.

I.e. the income in the table in the article is pre-tax. Elsewhere, someone stated the tax cap (above $70k would be there for sure) would be 47%. If that is true, then in the table, the bottom half (and a bit more) would be earning $80k or less... especially if converted to USD.

I think this article is not very well written. Too many loose terms and numbers thrown in, and the article can probably be summarised in less words, and in a direct way for people to get the facts immediately.

Unless of course, everyone is thinking of pretax anyway. Apologies if that. Here's an anecdote: garbage collectors in Chicago apparently earns $80k (USD) /year... they were on strike last year. So there, maybe doctors ought to earn more. But on the other hand, garbage collectors don't make as many mistakes on their job that costs lives, unlike those terrible, stupid @#$@#% doctors out there who makes idiotic mistakes all the time who deserves to be spanked with lawsuits and >$100k liability insurance.

P.S. I'm being sarcastic.

 

[Patchie]

i just wanna add another little something to here:

if you are working in australia, in private practice, and you have not already formed a medical COMPANY (and are therefore paying like 33% tax and not 47%) then i would wonder how that person would even know which planet they're on - it raises questions....

1) is that person stupid

2) is that person incapable?

3) or... does that person just love the tax department so much that they're willing to give them that extra money??


In all sincerity, medicine is what you make of it, if you work like a dog (a lot for you non-aussies), you'll get paid a silly (high) amount, if you're a slacker, you'll get peanuts (also if you're a nicey and you only charge every patient the medicare rebate (insert bulk billing comment here))


PS this is a joke (however, i'm sure some truth can be found within every joke, if you look hard enough!)

PPS what are we talking about here? my interest dissipated part of the way thru this post?? i'm a serial waffler

 

[Purifyer]

I assume the article states salary, after expenses, before tax.. like most other salary surveys do?

 

[redshifteffect]

Originally posted by tl47
Hmm... be careful there... you might have proved yourself wrong! The GP gets $100k after required bills... but note that the article itself differentiates the required cost and the taxes. If you take 47% tax off the total (before required costs), you are talking about a very low net income!

For example, a statement like the following:



I.e. the income in the table in the article is pre-tax. Elsewhere, someone stated the tax cap (above $70k would be there for sure) would be 47%. If that is true, then in the table, the bottom half (and a bit more) would be earning $80k or less... especially if converted to USD.

I think this article is not very well written. Too many loose terms and numbers thrown in, and the article can probably be summarised in less words, and in a direct way for people to get the facts immediately.

Unless of course, everyone is thinking of pretax anyway. Apologies if that. Here's an anecdote: garbage collectors in Chicago apparently earns $80k (USD) /year... they were on strike last year. So there, maybe doctors ought to earn more. But on the other hand, garbage collectors don't make as many mistakes on their job that costs lives, unlike those terrible, stupid @#$@#% doctors out there who makes idiotic mistakes all the time who deserves to be spanked with lawsuits and >$100k liability insurance.

P.S. I'm being sarcastic.

According to the chart in the article though it says Non procedural GPs make 114,000 after expenses. My guess is that is the non bulk billing ones. The $80 000 quoted there is probably the ones that have a significant amount of bulk billing. The only thing i really set out to prove was a) if you don't bulk bill your charging a consultation fee of above $40 which is what i have always said b) it is possible for specialists to make more than $500,000 a year c) Working in Australia you make more or equal amounts of money to a US doc when u take into account cost of living and don't include currency conversion.

No but my argument has always been to not convert to US dollars. When u begin to attend school this year you will see that the cost of living in Australia is less than in the US...so you can do more with "less" money in Australia.

also it states that on average radiologists are getting a million each from the gov't. That makes u wonder how much they are getting from the patients, as gov't rebates are only part of the story!

finally declaring taxes is another issue...u can always pay less taxes if u have the proper accountant...so that's not really an issue.

 

[redshifteffect]

Also since this is in comparison to a US doc...there are a lot of other problems ...for example in the US you get your money from private insurance companies which don't pay you or pay you in installments. I read an article somewhere that said upto 25% of your income can be lost this way unless u take them to court. You have to hire a full time staff member just to chase up these insurance companies....so that's another cost. Indemnity in the US is still higher than in Australia, and a significant portion of your salary! Add the extra hours of work you have to put in to get this pay and the higher cost of living, and i don't see how working in the US is any better?

 

[Purifyer]

Originally posted by redshifteffect
Also since this is in comparison to a US doc...there are a lot of other problems ...for example in the US you get your money from private insurance companies which don't pay you or pay you in installments. I read an article somewhere that said upto 25% of your income can be lost this way unless u take them to court. You have to hire a full time staff member just to chase up these insurance companies....so that's another cost. Indemnity in the US is still higher than in Australia, and a significant portion of your salary! Add the extra hours of work you have to put in to get this pay and the higher cost of living, and i don't see how working in the US is any better?

I must say RSE, I was quite saddened by the rather paltry 171k a neurosurgeon in Oz makes ;~(. Tell me an anecdote about some neurosurgeon in taz with 5 wives and a Bentley to make me feel better ;D

 

[redshifteffect]

Originally posted by Purifyer
I must say RSE, I was quite saddened by the rather paltry 171k a neurosurgeon in Oz makes ;~(. Tell me an anecdote about some neurosurgeon in taz with 5 wives and a Bentley to make me feel better ;D

lol

 

[DrIng]

I'm currently an intern in Adelaide, South Australia.
Salaries vary a little state by state. However to give you some idea, after tax etc working about 50 hours a week, with salary sacrifice which is a tax minimisation lurk, I'll be looking at actually getting in my hot little hand about $900 per week...
Junior docotrs in Australia earn more than juniour doctors in the USA but consultants/attendings earn more there than here.

 

[JoeNamaMD]

The cost of living in the US though is MUCH higher than Australia. I will admit that consumer electronic prices are higher in Oz but affordable housing is readily available in most parts of the country and healthcare is FREE and THIS IS A VERY BIG DEAL (My family doctor charged me FIVE THOUSAND dollars for a ONLY A CHECK UP and a cholesterol test, I have to pay $2,000US because my insurance covers only 80 percent). Even expensive places like Sydney and Melbourne are still reasonable next to Los Angeles and New York. Los Angeles is POLLUTED, you sometimes can't see two feet ahead of you, the skies of Los Angeles have this sort of maroon cloud, its SMOG and it STINKS. New York with the exception of certain parts of Manhattan, New York is a really scary place. With the quality of life that Australia provides and working conditions(50 hours for an intern physician is light because you can work 100+ as a resident in the US). Violent crime is also a serious problem in the US, Texas which has about the same population as Australia has ten times as many murders.

 

[tl47]

I'll be looking at actually getting in my hot little hand about $900 per week...

Yikes, I hope you don't mean this to be a lot. That's half the pay of a garbage collector in Chicago, even if you do not convert the currency at all... (Without currency conversion, it is not that much cheaper to stay in Adelaide, if at all... the food is the same as Chicago [eating out], the prices of electronics are sky-high, and the price of gas... don't even bother comparing, it's about 3.5 times more! Prices of townhouses/houses are comparable as well if no conversion).

Well, if you don't like to be compared to a garbage collector... let's make that a junior engineer.

But anyway, how much more do you get after you get out of interning?

P.S. Just FYI: The salary you mentioned is about the salary of an engineering intern with a B.S. degree already in hand in a underpaying big company. You might get much higher with a start-up or a rich, big company (e.g. Qualcomm, Peoplesoft, Oracle, etc.).

 

[JoeNamaMD]

P.S. Just FYI: The salary you mentioned is about the salary of an engineering intern with a B.S. degree already in hand in a underpaying big company. You might get much higher with a start-up or a rich, big company (e.g. Qualcomm, Peoplesoft, Oracle, etc.). [/B]

Really? Which companies are still hiring? I'll send my resume right away! Most new graduates in IT aren't finding jobs these days. A lot of those "rich and big" companies are sending many of their prime jobs to India and other low cost locales. DrIng said he was an "INTERN", A$900 comes out to about $700US which is what the average medical Resident in the US earns.