Round 2:UMDNJSOM or postbacc loans

[digitlnoize]

Hi everyone,
Sorry for taking so long to get back to this thread. I'm in NJ now and won't have continuous internet access at my residence until early this coming week. Even after my white coat ceremony I feel uneasy. I just feel like giving up and forgetting about my worries. I feel that since I've more or less moved in(though it's a sparse habitation) it's too late now to change my decision. This is especially because my parents think medical school is medical school and they were getting frustrated that I couldn't make up my mind. I can't imagine how unhappy and stressed out they would be if I told them that I want to do the medical master's at EVMS at this point after already going through the white coat ceremony at UMDNJ.

I know it's my fault since I couldn't make up my mind(and still can't though I guess the decision's already made) but I guess a part of me felt that willingly going into debt of what would ultimately be 418k would be a profligate thing to do..The thought of that much debt just frightened me too much. On top of that it's not a 100% guarantee(though the best guarantee you could get for medical school) and I would lose out on another year.

On the other hand the ~290k debt at UMDNJ should be just as frightening since I wouldn't be able to pay that back either if for some reason I don't perform well as a physician.I honestly don't feel proud or excited to be beginning school at UMDNJ. I hope the latter comment doesn't ruffle any feathers since I'm only stating the truth and I don't mean for it to be offensive. In any case I guess the only route left for me now is to do the best I can in my courses and board exams and see where it takes me.

I truly do/did appreciate everyone's advice on the Psychiatry board. You all have been an immense help in guiding me through this decision process. I am grateful for your invaluable advice and for the invaluable resources available on SDN.

Congratulations! I agree with everything posted above. Being admitted to ANY medical school these days is an incredible achievement, and will get you to your goal, regardless of what that goal is.

Stay focused. Eyes on the prize. Don't quit, ever, even if you feel like its the only thing you can do. There will be times you want to say screw it all and quit. Don't. Watch out for narcissistic injury.

If you need anything feel free to ask away or PM. I'm now 3 months into my residency as a DO at a large, competitive, allopathic university. Being a DO has never been brought up once, except for the couple times my classmates have asked me to crack their backs,mwhich I can't really do because I suck at OMM, hahaha.

You'll be fine. Go study!

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[billypilgrim37]

Speaking of snobbiness, we're all aware of your status, meaning that it means something to you and to other people. I don't think jumping on vistaril for speaking some of the truth about elitism in our field was the right tactic. Not to say you did it, but where you go to school does matter in some very narrow circumstances, and it obviously leads to some sense of self-accomplishment that you have. Of course I shouldn't be talking because I've shared my own successes at my no name medical school, so obviously that stuff matters to me, too. And I choose to pay more to attend an allopathic school rather than an osteopathic school and can't say I regret that decision.

I wasn't addressing Vistaril's comments. I was just pointing out that DS should embrace where he is. The part of him that feels good about being a doctor is small on the stage in his mind, and the part of him that's ashamed for not achieving at the level he wanted to achieve at is really big. Is it true that some of these things are important in some situations? Sure. Is it helpful for DS to think of it that way? It doesn't seem so. That's just decent CBT. He said "I honestly don't feel proud or excited to be beginning school at UMDNJ." There are some really distorted cognitions underlying that really sad feeling.

Prestige matters, but it matters a lot more to the individuals who is at the prestigious program or school than it does to the people around them later. Heck, when I say my "status", it's much more about me feeling good about it than anybody else giving a ****. But if you're narcissistically inclined, it might be nice to know that other narcissistically inclined people don't look down on you. There are lots of people on this board who are at very prestigious residency programs and/or went to very prestigious medical schools and/or very prestigious undergrads.

 

[whopper]

Your only worries right now should be surviving the next quiz/test and getting laid.

How refreshingly honest.

Seriously, I've known doctors rated in the top 100 physicians in the country and this school thing is overblown. Doug Mossman, my fellowship PD is rated in the top 100 and he taught at Wright State for years, and so did Doug Lehrer, a highly respected researcher. That residency didn't have a name-brand rep, someone even mocked that program a few weeks ago on this forum.

I do agree going into an academically elite institution is going to give you a leg-up in research or academics, two areas most people don't pursue. Clinically, you're going to be judged on your competence as a clinician, and I've seen people from top institutions be terrible clinicians and great clinicians from places you've never heard of. Most academic institutions don't pay well compared to private practice.

I got a heck of a lot more respect for a colleague fo mine who is a D.O. vs another that graduated from several elite schools and doesn't do jack $hit as a doctor. Once you're in an area for about 1-2 years, people know the qualilty of your work and for the most part they don't care if it's an M.D. or D.O. by your name.

 

[vistaril]

Speaking of snobbiness, we're all aware of your status, meaning that it means something to you and to other people. I don't think jumping on vistaril for speaking some of the truth about elitism in our field was the right tactic. Not to say you did it, but where you go to school does matter in some very narrow circumstances, and it obviously leads to some sense of self-accomplishment that you have. Of course I shouldn't be talking because I've shared my own successes at my no name medical school, so obviously that stuff matters to me, too. And I choose to pay more to attend an allopathic school rather than an osteopathic school and can't say I regret that decision.
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I think the main point that needs to be made is that it will MATTER MORE for fields other than psych....simply because psych is so noncompetitive.

But an ms-1 doesnt know what he will match in. Trying to match in a mid-competitive to competitive field is a different story, and thats where DO's have more of an uphill battle vs allos.....

also, IM is more picky when it comes to good uni programs. Most good uni programs in psych will still give DO's a great chance. In IM not as likely....

 

[vistaril]

Again, I'm a snob from a "top 10" med school and a "top 10" residency.

in psych though, there is no "snob" factor at play....maybe someone from a top 10 psych program can be a snob towards OTHER PSYCH residents who arent at top 10 programs, but that's it.

As for his decision, yeah...it was a nobrainer because waiting another year would be terrible.

 

[vistaril]

How refreshingly honest.

Seriously, I've known doctors rated in the top 100 physicians in the country and this school thing is overblown. Doug Mossman, my fellowship PD is rated in the top 100 and he taught at Wright State for years, and so did Doug Lehrer, a highly respected researcher. That residency didn't have a name-brand rep, someone even mocked that program a few weeks ago on this forum.
.

but psych is a different animal than something like IM simply because the way fellowships are set up.....

If you go to a crappy IM program, it is very hard to get cards/GI, and even if you do get it it's not going to be at the fellowship you want.

If you go to a crappy psych program and want to do a fellowship, the odds(even at "elite" programs) are still in your favor.....

 

[whopper]

Agree Vistaril,

An exception, however, is a crappy IM program with a fellowship attached. I've seen a few.

As for psychiatry fellowship, I've seen some of the worst residents get into namebrand programs. A guy in my program who showed up late most of the time and was labelled "incompentent" by several attendings got interviews at several programs. I talked him out of fellowship, telling him (as a friend, not in criticism) that we both knew he was a lazy POS and he was lucky enough to be in a program that was willing to tolerate with his crap. He'd be pressing his luck trying to get into a program known to actually work the fellows.

I've never understood what was the rub as to why so few psychiatrists pursue fellowship, and this leads to the noncompetitive atmosphere you mentioned.

 

[billypilgrim37]

in psych though, there is no "snob" factor at play...

This was sort of my point, that there's not some large club of superpsychiatrists that are so far above the rest that the OP should feel permanently excluded from some inner circle of secret knowledge. Whopper usually makes an Eyes Wide Shut reference here...

There was supposed to be some irony in the snob comment, but clearly the joke didn't work. So it goes.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

This was sort of my point, that there's not some large club of superpsychiatrists that are so far above the rest that the OP should feel permanently excluded from some inner circle of secret knowledge. Whopper usually makes an Eyes Wide Shut reference here...

There was supposed to be some irony in the snob comment, but clearly the joke didn't work. So it goes.

I thought it was us!

SDN Psychiatry...the ultimate arbiter of truth and righteousness.

 

[vistaril]

Agree Vistaril,

An exception, however, is a crappy IM program with a fellowship attached. I've seen a few.
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yeah, but another thing to consider is that it is far more likely the crappier IM programs(programs that really scrape the bottom of the barrel for residents) will have only the lesser competitive fellowships that are easier to jump start....meaning geriatrics, ID, etc.....

it's not uncommon for crappy community type programs(and not all community programs are crappy) to have these. But crappy community programs typically don't have Cards and GI fellowships, which are the ones people generally want. A few do Im sure.

 

[vistaril]

This was sort of my point, that there's not some large club of superpsychiatrists that are so far above the rest that the OP should feel permanently excluded from some inner circle of secret knowledge. Whopper usually makes an Eyes Wide Shut reference here...

There was supposed to be some irony in the snob comment, but clearly the joke didn't work. So it goes.

but in going back to the OP's question, he doesn't know he wants to do psych.....so while I agree that it probably isn't an issue if he ends up psych, it will come into play if he chooses to do many other things.