RN vs PA Confussion/Dilemma

[ERLover]

Hello Guys, first of all I want to say Hi since this is my first post, even though I have been reading the forums for awhile. I am finding myself in a big dilemma right now. I will be finishing up my B.S. in Health Science the next semester and along with my B.S. I will also have student loans debt and overall financial stress that I have carried for the past years. I have been looking at some accelerated BSN programs and some PA programs. I have all the pre-reqs to enter nursing school but one, which I can take this coming semester; for PA school I would need 4 pre-reqs plus an accumulation of 1500-2000 clinical experience to do before applying, meaning time consumption. I can see myself working either as a PA or Nurse, currently I work as an E.R. tech and I love working there. If I decide to do nursing, I want to do PA later after my loans are paid and have some financial freedom. I simply dont know what to do, I know these is souding like a money issue, but its really not although its imperative. A lot of people have told me, even some PAs that currently in the state of CA and most of the nation BSN grads are making more than what a PA makes when they graduate. Here where I live the average RN grad is making 28-34 hr. Getting the BSN would be the fastest route to start making money and have that stress free life I need, what would you do if you were in my situation? What are the differences in salary currently for RNs and PAs as new grads?

Sincerely,

Jorge

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[deleted6669]

rn and pa are very different jobs. shadow both to get a better idea of what both do.
for pa info check out www.physicianassistant.net ( a pa specific discussion forum) and www.aapa.org
for rn info check out www.allnurses.com
I will let the rn's speak to their salary issues.
last yr the avg pa who worked at least 32 hrs/week made $84,396.
the avg new grad made $71,004
source: http://physician-assistant.advanceweb.com/editorial/content/editorial.aspx?cc=81648
http://physician-assistant.advanceweb.com/editorial/content/editorial.aspx?CC=92681
here is a list of avg pa salary by specialty:
http://physician-assistant.advanceweb.com/editorial/content/editorial.aspx?CC=92678
if you decide to do rn 1st and pa later you will find that you are very well prepared in terms of prior clinical experience. good luck whatever you decide.

 

[bryanboling5]

It sounds like you are stressed about the money thing. Here's my two cents worth...

If you go to Nursing School, you can start making money sooner (since it sounds like you're closer to being able to start Nursing School) and can start paying down your debt (and your stress!). You can also possibly find someone else to pay for Nursing School and thereby not take on any MORE debt. Check with the hospital where you work. I have a friend who works at a local hospital and they give her a certain amount of $$ each semester for tuition. She will end up finishing nursing school for a lot less because they're paying the bulk. I've got a deal with another hospital where they are paying my tuition in full (and books, other expenses, etc) and I work for them for two years after graduation. Nurses are in high demand, look around and see if you can find a deal like that.

Then, you can work for a while and get some experience and go to PA school later. You said the PA school requires so many hours of experience, this would be a good way to get that experience.

Just my thoughts....
Bryan

 

[core0]

Hello Guys, first of all I want to say Hi since this is my first post, even though I have been reading the forums for awhile. I am finding myself in a big dilemma right now. I will be finishing up my B.S. in Health Science the next semester and along with my B.S. I will also have student loans debt and overall financial stress that I have carried for the past years. I have been looking at some accelerated BSN programs and some PA programs. I have all the pre-reqs to enter nursing school but one, which I can take this coming semester; for PA school I would need 4 pre-reqs plus an accumulation of 1500-2000 clinical experience to do before applying, meaning time consumption. I can see myself working either as a PA or Nurse, currently I work as an E.R. tech and I love working there. If I decide to do nursing, I want to do PA later after my loans are paid and have some financial freedom. I simply dont know what to do, I know these is souding like a money issue, but its really not although its imperative. A lot of people have told me, even some PAs that currently in the state of CA and most of the nation BSN grads are making more than what a PA makes when they graduate. Here where I live the average RN grad is making 28-34 hr. Getting the BSN would be the fastest route to start making money and have that stress free life I need, what would you do if you were in my situation? What are the differences in salary currently for RNs and PAs as new grads?

Sincerely,

Jorge

First of all both of these positions are not without stress. Why do you think that you want to be a PA? Do you understand what the job involves and what the responsibilities are? The same goes for nursing. Physically it is very demanding and also carries a fair amount of responsibility. While I won't say that money is not a valid reason for a job its not the only reason. The burnout rate in nursing is high, for a reason.

EMEDPAs advice is valid but I think that things have changed given the current lack of nursing school slots. The old suggestion was to get an ADN at a community college. This was available and relatively inexpensive. However, currently waiting lists for CC programs are three years or more. The one year programs are usually much more expensive (often the same cost as PA school).

Now you have to figure out the opportunity cost. You are going to add significantly to your debt for a profession that you do not intend to practice. It will add another year to your pursuit of the PA profession.

Another point I will make is that 1/3 of PA programs do not require medical experience (including several in California). While this is an area that EMEDPA and I disagree on this is a valid option to consider. There are also considerably cheaper ways to get medical experience including CNA or EMT.

I am assuming you have researched the profession. If money is the only thing that you are concerned about you can easily make 100k per year in Northern California with some overtime. You can make that same money as a PA but it is harder. You are a year away from applying in either case (one course = one semester for RN, 4 course = one full time or two part time semesters). If you want to go PA then go for it. If you aren't sure or think that you might enjoy nursing more then try that. Don't let student debt determine what you are going to do.

If you are considering the Davis PA/NP program then the BSN does make sense although you are going to have to do a Masters somewhere else.

David Carpenter, PA-C

 

[foreverLaur]

I'm planning to enter an accelerated BSN program as soon as I graduate. A local hospital is paying for my 1 year program and then I will work at that hospital for two years. In those two years, I hope to observe both PAs and NPs and decide which route is best for me. I'm currently leaning PA, but keeping options open to see what I learn as a working RN. However, I don't plan to enter either program until I have worked for a few years, gained some exposure, made the best decision, and paid off my undergrad loans!

Hello Guys, first of all I want to say Hi since this is my first post, even though I have been reading the forums for awhile. I am finding myself in a big dilemma right now. I will be finishing up my B.S. in Health Science the next semester and along with my B.S. I will also have student loans debt and overall financial stress that I have carried for the past years. I have been looking at some accelerated BSN programs and some PA programs. I have all the pre-reqs to enter nursing school but one, which I can take this coming semester; for PA school I would need 4 pre-reqs plus an accumulation of 1500-2000 clinical experience to do before applying, meaning time consumption. I can see myself working either as a PA or Nurse, currently I work as an E.R. tech and I love working there. If I decide to do nursing, I want to do PA later after my loans are paid and have some financial freedom. I simply dont know what to do, I know these is souding like a money issue, but its really not although its imperative. A lot of people have told me, even some PAs that currently in the state of CA and most of the nation BSN grads are making more than what a PA makes when they graduate. Here where I live the average RN grad is making 28-34 hr. Getting the BSN would be the fastest route to start making money and have that stress free life I need, what would you do if you were in my situation? What are the differences in salary currently for RNs and PAs as new grads?

Sincerely,

Jorge

 

[tiredfeetED]

What are the differences in salary currently for RNs and PAs as new grads?

Sincerely,

Jorge

I am a RN and new grad PA living in Cali. Starting RN make 32/hr 12% night diff with 5000 sign in bonus plus insurance for employee, time and half after 36 and dbl on weekends (unlimited overtime at the hospital i work at)

As a new grad PA in my hometown I have been offered 70k with production bonus with bennies in family practice. 80k surgery with insurance (6 days/week but will learn alot) and 65/hr in ED no matter how many hours worked (more if you have experience) 12 hour shifts rotated from days/night ( you are expected to run with the big boys)
I am leaning towards family practice, great group of docs who love to teach!

 

[ERLover]

Thanks for the great advice. I have researched both professions and I know that at the end I want to be a PA, but I wouldnt mind working as a nurse for a while to relieve my financial stress and gain the clinical experience that I believe will make me a better PA. Now, someone mentioned not to worry about student loans, but how can I not if I have to start paying some of them and being a student its impossible to handle it. What if I wait apply for PA school and dont get in the first try? Then that would be a loss of a year and then wait another one to re-apply. Nursing schools are difficult, too but since they offer acceptance every semester its in a way easier to apply to the accelarated nursing programs. I am just feeling very confused, stressed right now. What would I do if I was debt free? Probably wait and apply to PA school, yet I also want to pay what I owe and help my family and nursing can give me that opportunity faster. I am just venting out here with you guys, hopefully you guys can understand my situation.

Thanks

Jorge

 

[greytmedic]

Just out of curiosity how long have been working as an ER tech? Couldn't you use all the time you have worked as an ER tech as clinical experience? Plus, if you need 4 prereqs for PA school couldn't you just take those and keep working as an ER tech? That way you could get your prereqs done, get clinical experience hours as as ER tech, and still get paid as an ER tech, and then transition right into a PA school.

 

[core0]

Thanks for the great advice. I have researched both professions and I know that at the end I want to be a PA, but I wouldnt mind working as a nurse for a while to relieve my financial stress and gain the clinical experience that I believe will make me a better PA. Now, someone mentioned not to worry about student loans, but how can I not if I have to start paying some of them and being a student its impossible to handle it. What if I wait apply for PA school and dont get in the first try? Then that would be a loss of a year and then wait another one to re-apply. Nursing schools are difficult, too but since they offer acceptance every semester its in a way easier to apply to the accelarated nursing programs. I am just feeling very confused, stressed right now. What would I do if I was debt free? Probably wait and apply to PA school, yet I also want to pay what I owe and help my family and nursing can give me that opportunity faster. I am just venting out here with you guys, hopefully you guys can understand my situation.

Thanks

Jorge

Its called deferrment. You defer paying your loans until you are done with school. On unsubsidized staffords the interest accumulates (adds to principal). After you graduate you consolidate all these loans. This allows you to pay them off over 15-30 years. I have about $100k of student loans that cost me about $400 per month at 2.5% interest. I am at a point that I could pay these off but my finance guy says that I can get better return with my money elsewhere. You can do infinite what if scenarios. The only way to become a PA is to go to PA school. Also as the other poster stated if you have ER patient care experience most programs will not rate RN salary higher than ER tech.

David Carpenter, PA-C

 

[ERLover]

Again, thanks for the responses.

Question regarding Loans: I have loans that I got through school, but I also got a private student loan, those you can get from Wells Fargo and thats the one mortifying me the most since I really dont know if I can defer that one or not. I am kind of sure that the one I got through school directly through financial aid I can defer.

Question regarding ER tech: I have been working there for a month and a half and currently working 20-25 hrs a week since I go to school full time. In order to get the hrs some of the PA schools are looking for it would take me almost 2 years, plus my overall gpa is not as great, is a 3.0, although my pre-reqs are better, I have to retake 2-3 classes and that can put me at a 3.4-3.6.

Overall, the monetary situation is whats putting all these stress on me, kind of forcing me into a decision and kind of start living life more stress free since all of those issues have me in almost a depressive/axiety state.

I really thank you guys for listening to me and giving me great advice/

Jorge

 

[core0]

Again, thanks for the responses.

Question regarding Loans: I have loans that I got through school, but I also got a private student loan, those you can get from Wells Fargo and thats the one mortifying me the most since I really dont know if I can defer that one or not. I am kind of sure that the one I got through school directly through financial aid I can defer.

Question regarding ER tech: I have been working there for a month and a half and currently working 20-25 hrs a week since I go to school full time. In order to get the hrs some of the PA schools are looking for it would take me almost 2 years, plus my overall gpa is not as great, is a 3.0, although my pre-reqs are better, I have to retake 2-3 classes and that can put me at a 3.4-3.6.

Overall, the monetary situation is whats putting all these stress on me, kind of forcing me into a decision and kind of start living life more stress free since all of those issues have me in almost a depressive/axiety state.

I really thank you guys for listening to me and giving me great advice/

Jorge

You can't defer private loans but you can put them into forbearance. Basically you either only pay the interest or you let the interest accumulate. If your PA school is cheap enough one method is to pay off your private loan with stafford loans. That lets you consolidate them later. Pretty tough since you also have to take out loans to live on.

As far as hours, most program application deadlines are between September and November. There are a few as early as June and some as late as March. That will give you a fair amount of time to get your hours in. 1000+ hours plus decent GREs and a better than 3.0 GPA should make you fairly competitive for a number of programs. The trick, just like in medical school is to apply widely. Look at the PA and NY programs especially.

Good Luck

David Carpenter, PA-C

 

[foreverLaur]

Look at the PA and NY programs especially.

why?

 

[core0]

why?

Approximately 30% of all PA programs are in those two states. They tend to have a higher proportion of programs that do not require medical experience so someone with any medical experience is more competitive. They are in general larger programs with more seats. They also tend to take more out of state students.

Generally the certificate programs are hypercompetitive as are the programs that only have 1-2 programs in a state. There are regional exceptions.

Too many people consider PA school as a local option. Like any graduate school decision it makes a career and is something that will direct where you go with your life. 1/2 of all CASPA students that applied last year did not get in. Many of those who did not get in would have been competitive if they had applied more broadly. The common theme on the PAforum is "I applied at one program and did not get in, what should I do".

David Carpenter, PA-C

 

[foreverLaur]

Approximately 30% of all PA programs are in those two states. They tend to have a higher proportion of programs that do not require medical experience so someone with any medical experience is more competitive. They are in general larger programs with more seats. They also tend to take more out of state students.

Generally the certificate programs are hypercompetitive as are the programs that only have 1-2 programs in a state. There are regional exceptions.

Too many people consider PA school as a local option. Like any graduate school decision it makes a career and is something that will direct where you go with your life. 1/2 of all CASPA students that applied last year did not get in. Many of those who did not get in would have been competitive if they had applied more broadly. The common theme on the PAforum is "I applied at one program and did not get in, what should I do".

David Carpenter, PA-C

Oh wow - interesting. Thank you for that information. I do intend to apply broadly, but I think I would like to stay in-state. Any info/heads up on the Ohio PA programs? I think we determined there are 4-5 Masters programs here. I'm only considering Masters programs because I will already have two bachelors degrees when I apply I will have 2 years under my belt as a nurse (RN) as well when I apply, but my GPA will be right around a 3.1 with a higher prereq GPA.

 

[core0]

Oh wow - interesting. Thank you for that information. I do intend to apply broadly, but I think I would like to stay in-state. Any info/heads up on the Ohio PA programs? I think we determined there are 4-5 Masters programs here. I'm only considering Masters programs because I will already have two bachelors degrees when I apply I will have 2 years under my belt as a nurse (RN) as well when I apply, but my GPA will be right around a 3.1 with a higher prereq GPA.

I've heard good things about the Kettering Program. The TriC program used to have a pretty awful rep mostly relating to loss pass rate on the surgical program. They have come up some and I hear better things about the program. Really haven't heard much about the others. There are three Masters programs and the TriC program has a masters option.

The resource for PA school is the PAEA directory which has links and information for all the programs. The directory costs $35 per year and can be accessed here:
http://www.paeaonline.org/ProgListing.asp

David Carpenter, PA-C

 

[ERLover]

Thanks for such great info. Are there any RNs that can answer the question regarding the income?

Again,

Thanks

 

[Josh L.Ac.]

HCA hospitals in Kansas City start at around $20/hour. My wife's friend just moved back to New Orleans and as a new ADN grad, she is making $27/hour.




Hey core, how about the PA program at Wichita State University?

 

[Farmer Jane]

In various parts of Wisconsin, new RNs are looking at the low $20s per hour. I've no idea what PAs make here.

 

[YabaDabaDoo]

[ If money is the only thing that you are concerned about you can easily make 100k per year in Northern California with some overtime. You can make that same money as a PA but it is harder. If you are considering the Davis PA/NP program then the BSN does make sense although you are going to have to do a Masters somewhere else.

David Carpenter, PA-C[/QUOTE]



Dave,
Why is it harder to make 100k + as a Pa in ca? What is the most a Pa can expect to make in Ca?

 

[core0]

[ If money is the only thing that you are concerned about you can easily make 100k per year in Northern California with some overtime. You can make that same money as a PA but it is harder. If you are considering the Davis PA/NP program then the BSN does make sense although you are going to have to do a Masters somewhere else.

David Carpenter, PA-C

Dave,
Why is it harder to make 100k + as a Pa in ca? What is the most a Pa can expect to make in Ca?

I know people making north of $150k in California, not sure whats the limit is. The 90th percentile for a PA in Derm is $200k there. Surgery and EM also pay well.

The issue that I was alluding to is that because of the California laws governing patient assignments its relatively easy for an RN there to make a lot of money working a lot of overtime. PAs are generally salaried, therefore to make a lot of money you have to have a second job or be in one of the few hourly jobs. That being said, looking at the California salary data, you should be over $100k by your fifth year unless you are working in one of the poorer areas of the state (riverside, central valley, northern coast).

David Carpenter, PA-C