Rhodes Scholars...

[ClarinetGeek]

Ok, my university emailed me today asking that I apply to be a Rhodes or Marshall scholar. I am vaguely aware of the scholarship; however, I have never really considered it especially since my recent interest in doing MD/PhD. Before I consider applying, I want to figure out if something like this could be advantageous for my career goals in academic medicine. Obvisouly, its a great resume builder; however, does it serve as a good pathway for such a goal. So I am curious if anyone knows or heard of anyone of either med or grad students in the sciences who were Rhodes/Marschall Scholars. Any advise would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

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[BandGeek]

I applied for Rhodes Scholar while applying for MD/PhD and was the runner up for my state. It does look good on a resume, plus the Rhodes commitees ask what your "plan B" is, and MD/PhD is really nice. I would recommend going through the process.

 

[dave613]

I don't know about a rhodes/marshall scholar, but I know an individual in my school who was a barry goldwater scholar, and i'm sure it will help him get into an MD/PhD program. So, in short, apply!!!

 

[linuxizer]

A Rhodes will let you do a Masters at a happy British university in basically whatever field you want. There are quite a few other fellowships out there as well that will let you do similar things. If you feel you could take a year or two off to persue the degree, the funding is good and the prestige can't be beat. However, if you can get into the MSTP you want to without doing a Rhodes, and the idea of the Rhodes itself doesn't light your fire, I wouldn't bother applying. The application process is long, and your odds are, to put it mildly, really long.

--Ari

 

[marctam86]

rhodes lets you do a second BA, a masters, or a d. phil at Oxford. marshall scholarships let you do the same at any english university, the big two are oxford and cambridge. from what ive read, its a good thing to pursue, but next to impossible to win. only 30 something rhodes scholars are chosen, i think. you might also look up the Fulbright scholarship program, which lets you study abroad too. good luck, with whatever you decide to pursue.

 

[13538]

If the OP is interested in MSTP - a second BA from Oxford or a DPhil (ie- PhD) will probably add little to his/her future career prospects except for having "BA (Oxon)" or "DPhil (Oxon)" after their name... especially if they return to the US to complete a US PhD along with their medical degree.

Although, Samuel Shem of "House of God" fame completed a DPhil in physiology while a Rhodes scholar at Oxford before he started at Harvard Medical School.

 

[futuremsfdoc]

why not apply for a dphil in some science as a rhodes/marshall scholar and then just return to the us three years later and complete an md?

oh and to answer someone's question, there are 32 rhodes scholars chosen from the us each year. this year's interviews will be something like nov. 15-19 (3 or 4 days if you keep advancing) with notification being on the last day. marshall follows a similar timetable.

something like 1000 of the best students nominated from each university apply, 32 win (40 for the marshall).

also you could consider a gates cambridge scholarship.

 

[Reimat]

I had recently talked to a prof. about these scholarships and he said apply for the scholarships and as a regular Md/PhD applicant. Apparently, if you get accepted to a school and win a rhodes or marshall, most schools will be more than happy to defer you for a year or two because it makes them look good too. It seems like by applying you have nothing to lose- you just have to do a little extra work

 

[futuremsfdoc]

unfortunately for the rhodes you need 8 letters of rec.

 

[agp4]

why not apply for a dphil in some science as a rhodes/marshall scholar and then just return to the us three years later and complete an md?

oh and to answer someone's question, there are 32 rhodes scholars chosen from the us each year. this year's interviews will be something like nov. 15-19 (3 or 4 days if you keep advancing) with notification being on the last day. marshall follows a similar timetable.

something like 1000 of the best students nominated from each university apply, 32 win (40 for the marshall).

also you could consider a gates cambridge scholarship.

I have a friend that's going through the Oxford masters program (not Rhodes, but same idea). He told me that the problem with doing a DPhil in England is that its not considered as rigorous an education as a Phd from back home in the states. The reasoning is that the English system ensures that you will get a degee in 3 years without actually having to find something new in your field. Basically, once you get in, you can putz around for 3 years. So, if you plan on being an academic scientist in the States, I'd recommend you look into that. But I should add that this is second hand knowledge so I may have misunderstood him.

 

[13538]

I have a friend that's going through the Oxford masters program (not Rhodes, but same idea). He told me that the problem with doing a DPhil in England is that its not considered as rigorous an education as a Phd from back home in the states. The reasoning is that the English system ensures that you will get a degee in 3 years without actually having to find something new in your field. Basically, once you get in, you can putz around for 3 years. So, if you plan on being an academic scientist in the States, I'd recommend you look into that. But I should add that this is second hand knowledge so I may have misunderstood him.

Generally speaking a PhD degree lasts 3-4 years in UK/Ireland and all of that time is spent at the bench. A PhD thesis must show evidence of knowledge, scholarship and make an appreciable, original contribution to the body of knowledge worthy of publication. All PhDs must be defended at viva voce examination and are externally examined to ensure standards are maintained. There's no way you can potter around the lab for 3 years and expect to have enough data to write up a PhD thesis...! 3 years is the minimum but some people take 4 or 5 years to submit a thesis depending on their productivity!

As for whether UK/Irish PhDs are equivalent to US PhDs is another story. Personally, I like the idea of formal course-work as an integral part of a PhD and many labs here do incorporate such into their PhDs but it is not a pre-requisite for the actual degree. Over the last few years there has been a move towards 4-year PhD "training" programmes that incorporate 12 months of formal teaching and labwork in various different labs afterwhich time the person spends the final 3 years in a particular lab.

Many of the PhD graduates from the department I'm in are in the US doing postdoc work and none of them have found their PhD training to be inferior to that of US-trained PhD graduates. Having said all that, the ultimate indicator of the quality of a PhD is the list of publications that arise from the research!

 

[agp4]

Thanks for setting me straight! I apologize if I seemed to be saying that English DPhil's don't do anything - that's completely false. And you're absolutely right - the ultimate marker of any graduate work is the quality of research done. And nothing represents that better than good publications.

 

[green555]

I'm in a similar situation...the scholarship advisor at my school really wants me to apply for the Rhodes and Marshall scholarships. The catch is that I'm not applying for M.D./Ph.D. this year...I just took the MCAT and was planning on taking a year off to work and apply during that year.

Does anyone know if it'd be possible to apply to M.D./Ph.D. programs while out at Oxford doing a second bachelor's or a master's? I'd be willing to take an extra year off (if I did a master's) for what would be a great opportunity, but I don't want "just another year" to turn into 2 or 3 more because I can't schedule interviews. M.D./Ph.D. is already a long enough road, plus my MCAT scores would expire at some places.

The other option (which the scholarship advisor was strongly encouraging) was to do a D. Phil out at Oxford, then come back and just get an M.D. in the U.S. But this could get expensive, and I'm not sure about choosing a field for my doctorate yet. Plus, there seems to be some benefit to doing the two degrees in a combined, integrated program.

Any thoughts? I'm really wrestling with this right now. There is some appeal to Oxford, but I'm really worried about the potential ramifications.