Retirement

[iamapharmacist]

So as I sit here in my house watching the snow fall, it dawned on me that I may not be able to be a pharmacist until retirement.

I probably won't have to explain the reason for this. What are your thoughts on the next 15-20 years of our career and what to do next if there are no more pharmacist jobs in the near future? I actually thought about buying a small business while i'm still young and able to start something new.

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[Seriously Serious]

I think you are being a little dramatic. If you are willing to move anywhere, you should be able to find some type of employment - esp with all of these temporary positions opening up. You just need to start somewhere.

Definitely aim for small towns where the talent pool is small.

 

[iamapharmacist]

I think you are being a little dramatic. If you are willing to move anywhere, you should be able to find some type of employment - esp with all of these temporary positions opening up. You just need to start somewhere.

Definitely aim for small towns where the talent pool is small.

I'm not talking about temp jobs though. I mean maybe when I first graduated, these temp opportunities would've been fine but I'm approaching 40 now and want to have a family and settle down in one place. I don't want to be moving around chasing jobs until my 50s and 60s. I see these doctors I work with in next door clinic who's been there for 30+ years well into their 70s. Back even 10-15 years ago, I heard that's how our profession used to be but now it's getting so unstable. I'm just worried that we will all get replaced by these cheap labor new grads at one point and we all have to fight to find new jobs in our 50's.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Max out your retirement accounts. Live well below your means. Invest as much in a taxable account as possible. Try to pay off your house.

We don't have much longer to enjoy high pay. Save, save, save. Invest, invest, invest.

 

[johnpharm01]

So as I sit here in my house watching the snow fall, it dawned on me that I may not be able to be a pharmacist until retirement.

I probably won't have to explain the reason for this. What are your thoughts on the next 15-20 years of our career and what to do next if there are no more pharmacist jobs in the near future? I actually thought about buying a small business while i'm still young and able to start something new.

I think it's a reasonable question with the pharmacy market the way it is. WVU pharm makes good points. It's also better to be prepared for change rather than getting whiplashed by it. Unfortunately no one can solve that problem and guarantee stable employment for a 2 decade span. Government employment in any job field would be the closest option. If you are looking for job security, pharmacy is the polar opposite.

 

[Sine Cura]

Involuntary retirement should be the expectation.

If you get or got at least 10 good years of solid income from pharmacy, consider yourself fortunate.

 

[radio frequency]

Max out your retirement accounts. Live well below your means. Invest as much in a taxable account as possible. Try to pay off your house.

We don't have much longer to enjoy high pay. Save, save, save. Invest, invest, invest.

Same thought process here. I also use after tax accounts. I have access to a Roth through work as well as my Roth IRA; at this point I’m focusing on those accounts rather than pretax accounts. I’d like a mix of both upon retirement (voluntary or involuntary).

Save as much as you can now; the future is uncertain but my pay is good today. It may never be better than this.

 

[ValeRx]

Get a government job and don't screw up for 3 years to get permanent status.

 

[awval999]

Do you prefer to pay down your mortgage principal, or make minimum payments and invest the rest?

Technical Issues, re-merging mortgage threads.

forums.studentdoctor.net

I think every pharmacist needs to be planning for the end. This career is ending. And ending quickly. Retail is just the canary in the coal mine.

The answer to this question depends on your family situation.

If you are one of the single Cali bros -- with a $1M mortgage on a shack at 2.75% 30 year, then of course, you need to be investing into the stock market because you have no hope to pay off that mortgage, and when **** hits the fan, you can always just walk away in Cali cause the mortgages are non recourse and then you can take your 401k and taxable accounts to flyover. And hopefully the housing market in Cali continues to grow and you can take the equity into flyover as well.

I think the math significantly changes if you have a family and live in a normal housing market, in LCOL or MCOL areas. For example, in my situation, with two children and a stay-at-home spouse, I live in flyover with a small house in a good school district. I refi'd to a 15 year and am paying additional payments to get it paid off by the time I'm 45, which is 10 years away. The remaining mortgage amount is $175k. And I don't think even that is even quick enough before the end. When I run the numbers though, to increase the additional principle amount, I'd have to reduce the amount I place into 403b, HSA, etc, which gets my marginal rate down to 12%. It's a large jump going from 12% to 22% marginal just to pay off a 3% loan earlier. My wife understands if we can make it 5 years, we at least could sell and buy the same house in a marginal school district. But if I can make it to 45, then we've won. Monthly net expenses would be $25,000/year. And a technician job would support the family.

Let me be clear -- If we checked in on this thread in October 2050, the math clearly would show that investing in a diversified mutual / index fund is better than paying off a 3% 30 year mortgage. The issue is that this career won't be here then.

 

[penicillinman]

You know what’s funny, each and every professional forum here says this is the end of the road for them....do not make the mistake they did. That in 10-20 yrs, their profession is dead. Go on to the MD forum, optometry, NP/PA/mid levels complaining about over saturation as well...so if all these professions area dead in 10-20 yrs, who the heck is gonna be left....I know I know, BLS data....but still, you gotta wonder.

 

[johnpharm01]

You know what’s funny, each and every professional forum here says this is the end of the road for them....do not make the mistake they did. That in 10-20 yrs, their profession is dead. Go on to the MD forum, optometry, NP/PA/mid levels complaining about over saturation as well...so if all these professions area dead in 10-20 yrs, who the heck is gonna be left....I know I know, BLS data....but still, you gotta wonder.

How do you explain the starting wages for pharmacists reduced down to levels seen 15 or more years ago?

I am certain that there are still blacksmiths making horseshoes nowadays 100 plus years after autos were invented but I am sure it's a not viable career field.

 

[PharmtoCS]

Start seeking alternative sources of income. That means investing in real estate, going back to school for another professions, etc

Save and invest every penny while you still have your pharmacist income.

 

[Gombrich12]

Let's put a timeframe on the chains sucessfully lobbying to get rid of the legal requirement that pharmacists be on premises. I say it happens in 7 years.

 

[iamapharmacist]

Let's put a timeframe on the chains sucessfully lobbying to get rid of the legal requirement that pharmacists be on premises. I say it happens in 7 years.

Well its already happening. Techs are immunizing, taking transfers and soon theyll be able to counsel im sure. Chains saw this coming and they took this covid opportunity to go for the kill and change legislation. And now it’s permanent.

 

[iamapharmacist]

You know what’s funny, each and every professional forum here says this is the end of the road for them....do not make the mistake they did. That in 10-20 yrs, their profession is dead. Go on to the MD forum, optometry, NP/PA/mid levels complaining about over saturation as well...so if all these professions area dead in 10-20 yrs, who the heck is gonna be left....I know I know, BLS data....but still, you gotta wonder.

Lets take doctors for example. I could see how family medicine can be taken over by PAs or NPs but surgeons other more specialized specialties cannot be touched. A surgeon has skill sets that cannot be taken away by simply changing the law. No matter how you wanna twist it, no nurse or PA is going to match the training of a surgeon. A tech could easily compare one side of the screen to the other side.

 

[APN-59 rph]

So as I sit here in my house watching the snow fall, it dawned on me that I may not be able to be a pharmacist until retirement.

I probably won't have to explain the reason for this. What are your thoughts on the next 15-20 years of our career and what to do next if there are no more pharmacist jobs in the near future? I actually thought about buying a small business while i'm still young and able to start something new.

Start a training program in one of the trades ASAP...In many locations they will pay you while training you..Hourly pay is quite nice once you have a license...THEN..you can work for someone or start on your own...do the pharmacy gig on the side as needed and save, save, save...I had a highly technical job (that no longer exists) running along with pharmacy for quite a while so money wasn't the problem...time was..and stresss was.....get your housing paid off while making pharmacy coin...don't marry a spendthrift...My car is 14 years old....invest wisely with a local or regional well thought of firm and let that money grow...stop worrying so much...your ancient relatives likely survived a wagon train trip to a log cabin..It will work out...

 

[TheBlaah]

Lets take doctors for example. I could see how family medicine can be taken over by PAs or NPs but surgeons other more specialized specialties cannot be touched. A surgeon has skill sets that cannot be taken away by simply changing the law. No matter how you wanna twist it, no nurse or PA is going to match the training of a surgeon. A tech could easily compare one side of the screen to the other side.

Surgeons have to go through a longer period of residency than internal or family medicine doctors. It's usually 5 years of residency instead of 3. If they specialize, another year or two is tacked on. With med school included, this leads to potentially 9 to 11 years of preparation for their position.

Their job security and salary is well earned at that point.

 

[iamapharmacist]

Surgeons have to go through a longer period of residency than internal or family medicine doctors. It's usually 5 years of residency instead of 3. If they specialize, another year or two is tacked on. With med school included, this leads to potentially 9 to 11 years of preparation for their position.

Their job security and salary is well earned at that point.

This shouldnt be the reason for ones job security and it actually isnt. The point i was making is that professions where they use actual skill sets, hands on, physical skills, cannot be replaced easily and will always have opportunities to ise their skills. Dentists, surgeons heck physical therapists and chiropractors too. We on the other hand dont possess any tangible skills that we can utilize to keep our profession afloat.

 

[quickpic007]

So as I sit here in my house watching the snow fall, it dawned on me that I may not be able to be a pharmacist until retirement.

I probably won't have to explain the reason for this. What are your thoughts on the next 15-20 years of our career and what to do next if there are no more pharmacist jobs in the near future? I actually thought about buying a small business while i'm still young and able to start something new.

15-20 years wont be great but I was expecting massive change to already occur, yet I have been doing the exact same job for 7 plus years. As soon as rph is not required on site it think it is over. Until then just stack dollars I guess. Just take the corporate money. Easy.

You know what’s funny, each and every professional forum here says this is the end of the road for them....do not make the mistake they did. That in 10-20 yrs, their profession is dead. Go on to the MD forum, optometry, NP/PA/mid levels complaining about over saturation as well...so if all these professions area dead in 10-20 yrs, who the heck is gonna be left....I know I know, BLS data....but still, you gotta wonder.

Yeah, I think there is excessive doom and gloom sometimes. I recall being in school worried if I would even get a good job a decade ago. Looking back it was a bunch of worry for nothing.

Surgeons have to go through a longer period of residency than internal or family medicine doctors. It's usually 5 years of residency instead of 3. If they specialize, another year or two is tacked on. With med school included, this leads to potentially 9 to 11 years of preparation for their position.

Their job security and salary is well earned at that point.

For many physicians, surgeons etc the profession is a losing proposition financially.
If all that effort was put into CS, Nursing, Plumbing/electric they would be millionaire by 30 instead of just starting as a fully trained doc.

 

[TheBlaah]

This shouldnt be the reason for ones job security and it actually isnt. The point i was making is that professions where they use actual skill sets, hands on, physical skills, cannot be replaced easily and will always have opportunities to ise their skills. Dentists, surgeons heck physical therapists and chiropractors too.

Saying that professions only have reliable opportunities because it's "hands-on" is a half-truth. Fast food workers use physical skills too but you don't see sky high salaries and job security there.

In fact, the time spent honing their skills is even more relevant to occupations with hands-on requirements. The time spent gathering the experience and honing their skills is inextricably tied to demand/supply, and therefore the security/salary, of the occupation. This applies to most trades (just look up apprentice/journeyman/master trades like plumbers or pipefitters).

 

[Xenophylia]

All of the medical professions have their doomsayers. But let's face it, Pharmacy is the BENCHMARK for the decline of a once viable medical profession. All of the things the others worry about have ALREADY HAPPENED to us. Decrease in wages, lack of respect, etc. At one time pharmacists were almost untouchable. Others see how far we've fallen and realize it could happen to any profession just as easily. Techs taking over will be the thing that ultimately makes the profession extinct, but it won't happen overnight although we are well on our way.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Techs taking over will be the thing that ultimately makes the profession extinct, but it won't happen overnight although we are well on our way.

That's not going to happen. What will happen before that happens is that techs will be replaced by pharmacists and pharmacists will just get paid less. Why settle for cheap techs when you can have a bunch of cheap pharmacists? We'll get like $24/hour and run the whole show. Which sucks even more than the profession just dying. Lol.

 

[Xenophylia]

But who would do all that education for $24 an hour? Once the word gets out that the decreased salaries are really true I'm pretty sure a pharmacist with 8 or sometimes more years of school isn't going to work for $2.00 more an hour than their techs with a high school diploma. The chains can only get away with so much and the profession will die on its own simply from no one wanting to do it anymore. Granted, that may take MANY MANY years to happen....

I've always believed that the chains are making the pharmacist job so deplorable that eventually it will look good to NO ONE. Once that happens they'll cry to the state boards- "oh whoa is us, there are no pharmacists to hire anymore.." and the boards will allow techs to run the show for peanuts. That equals profits for the chains and more jobs (albeit crappy ones) for the techs who now are made to look like professionals despite no to minimal training.

 

[iamapharmacist]

But who would do all that education for $24 an hour? Once the word gets out that the decreased salaries are really true I'm pretty sure a pharmacist with 8 or sometimes more years of school isn't going to work for $2.00 more an hour than their techs with a high school diploma. The chains can only get away with so much and the profession will die on its own simply from no one wanting to do it anymore. Granted, that may take MANY MANY years to happen....

I've always believed that the chains are making the pharmacist job so deplorable that eventually it will look good to NO ONE. Once that happens they'll cry to the state boards- "oh whoa is us, there are no pharmacists to hire anymore.." and the boards will allow techs to run the show for peanuts. That equals profits for the chains and more jobs (albeit crappy ones) for the techs who now are made to look like professionals despite no to minimal training.

Im sure big chains already have people in state boards just lobbying the crap out of them to change laws.

 

[Xenophylia]

Im sure big chains already have people in state boards just lobbying the crap out of them to change laws.

Yeah. I believe that as well. It's too early for it to happen...yet. But when the supply of pharmacists finally starts to dwindle.....

 

[awval999]

But who would do all that education for $24 an hour? Once the word gets out that the decreased salaries are really true I'm pretty sure a pharmacist with 8 or sometimes more years of school isn't going to work for $2.00 more an hour than their techs with a high school diploma. The chains can only get away with so much and the profession will die on its own simply from no one wanting to do it anymore. Granted, that may take MANY MANY years to happen....

I've always believed that the chains are making the pharmacist job so deplorable that eventually it will look good to NO ONE. Once that happens they'll cry to the state boards- "oh whoa is us, there are no pharmacists to hire anymore.." and the boards will allow techs to run the show for peanuts. That equals profits for the chains and more jobs (albeit crappy ones) for the techs who now are made to look like professionals despite no to minimal training.

You're not calculating for sunk cost.
Applications are *already* down.
Class sizes are slightly down.
But there still are 15,000+ year new PharmDs.
And they need jobs.
And $40/hr is better than $15/hr at Wendy's.

 

[ornithoptor]

Hi, Is there anyone else looking at Golden Passport or Golden Residency Programs oversea for retirement purposes?

Spain, Portugal, Greece, Malta, Cyprus, Mont Negro and many other Caribbean countries that you can early retire to. Some of them are English speaking countries.

With the option of working remotely for some of us, retirement may not even be mandatory to take advantage of these possibilities.
We can easily move over for lowered cost of living (in some of these countries), health insurance is at a discount (about $1k per year), home swap while you tour the Europe.

I am spending a lot of time researching this, and love to learn and share from other interested parties.

 

[Prepharm1214]

Hi, Is there anyone else looking at Golden Passport or Golden Residency Programs oversea for retirement purposes?

Spain, Portugal, Greece, Malta, Cyprus, Mont Negro and many other Caribbean countries that you can early retire to. Some of them are English speaking countries.

With the option of working remotely for some of us, retirement may not even be mandatory to take advantage of these possibilities.
We can easily move over for lowered cost of living (in some of these countries), health insurance is at a discount (about $1k per year), home swap while you tour the Europe.

I am spending a lot of time researching this, and love to learn and share from other interested parties.

I'd like to hear more about this

 

[Charcoales]

Max out your retirement accounts. Live well below your means. Invest as much in a taxable account as possible. Try to pay off your house.

We don't have much longer to enjoy high pay. Save, save, save. Invest, invest, invest.

Yep I max my roth/401k/hsa and put any extra each month into taxable account. Oh yeah I also pay off any student loans above 5% asap but I want to keep a bit just in case biden changes his mind about 50k forgiveness...

 

[ValeRx]

Yep I max my roth/401k/hsa and put any extra each month into taxable account. Oh yeah I also pay off any student loans above 5% asap but I want to keep a bit just in case biden changes his mind about 50k forgiveness...

Biden already rejected 50k forgiveness.

Biden again rejects $50,000 student loan debt forgiveness plan pushed by other top Democrats

 

[TheBlaah]

Biden already rejected 50k forgiveness.

Biden again rejects $50,000 student loan debt forgiveness plan pushed by other top Democrats

Thanks for the link. I personally hope it stays rejected.

 

[quickpic007]

Hi, Is there anyone else looking at Golden Passport or Golden Residency Programs oversea for retirement purposes?

Spain, Portugal, Greece, Malta, Cyprus, Mont Negro and many other Caribbean countries that you can early retire to. Some of them are English speaking countries.

With the option of working remotely for some of us, retirement may not even be mandatory to take advantage of these possibilities.
We can easily move over for lowered cost of living (in some of these countries), health insurance is at a discount (about $1k per year), home swap while you tour the Europe.

I am spending a lot of time researching this, and love to learn and share from other interested parties.

Looked into this very briefly but I am thinking staying in US and retire/ semi retire is much easier.

Spain and portugal leave lots to be desired for everyday living. The rent in Spain is super cheap though, but its just so different from life here. I am so used to big open roads, big hearty meals, there it is very cramped and food is much different.

My plan would be to calculate ACA to get insurance bill to $0 like Jason Long. Stay in US and travel whenever. So cheap on airbnb.

 

[Sunshine98*]

So as I sit here in my house watching the snow fall, it dawned on me that I may not be able to be a pharmacist until retirement.

I probably won't have to explain the reason for this. What are your thoughts on the next 15-20 years of our career and what to do next if there are no more pharmacist jobs in the near future? I actually thought about buying a small business while i'm still young and able to start something new.

I will be retired by then. I see techs doing more Rph work, as much as Chains can lobby lawmakers and get away with. RPh salary continue to hit an all time low. Im glad I saved and maxed out everything I can. No way I would go into pharmacy today.

 

[iamapharmacist]

I will be retired by then. I see techs doing more Rph work, as much as Chains can lobby lawmakers and get away with. RPh salary continue to hit an all time low. Im glad I saved and maxed out everything I can. No way I would go into pharmacy today.

Yeah. Rph salary keeps on dropping yet tech rates on the rise... our profession is done.

 

[PieRoller]

So as I sit here in my house watching the snow fall, it dawned on me that I may not be able to be a pharmacist until retirement.

I probably won't have to explain the reason for this. What are your thoughts on the next 15-20 years of our career and what to do next if there are no more pharmacist jobs in the near future? I actually thought about buying a small business while i'm still young and able to start something new.

Newly retired pharmacist here ... Train for a completely different (and marketable) skill NOW. Something like appliance repair, welding, pastry chef, HVAC, etc. If you have business aptitude, polish those skill, too. I‘m fine having retired at 61, but I wish I had developed a side career and abandoned pharmacy ten years ago when it really got ugly. The money was good, but employers own our time both on and off the job. I am so glad to be done with it. Get off the Merry-go-round if you don’t love it.

 

[Sine Cura]

I would compare it to musical chairs

 

[iamapharmacist]

Newly retired pharmacist here ... Train for a completely different (and marketable) skill NOW. Something like appliance repair, welding, pastry chef, HVAC, etc. If you have business aptitude, polish those skill, too. I‘m fine having retired at 61, but I wish I had developed a side career and abandoned pharmacy ten years ago when it really got ugly. The money was good, but employers own our time both on and off the job. I am so glad to be done with it. Get off the Merry-go-round if you don’t love it.

About to start a small business. Wish me luck.

 

[ornithoptor]

Looked into this very briefly but I am thinking staying in US and retire/ semi retire is much easier.

Spain and portugal leave lots to be desired for everyday living. The rent in Spain is super cheap though, but its just so different from life here. I am so used to big open roads, big hearty meals, there it is very cramped and food is much different.

My plan would be to calculate ACA to get insurance bill to $0 like Jason Long. Stay in US and travel whenever. So cheap on airbnb.

I do agree that it would be a lot easier to stay in the US. We don't have to pick up a new language or form a new network of friends.

However, I am concerned with the following: political climates, wage increase outpace SSI. Cost of insurance.

Political climate: Pendulum swing from extreme right to far left. With each presidential candidate received historical high votes. There are no incentives for politicians to move toward the middle. It will take decade to heal the nation. Violent crime is up by 800% against Asian.

To keep Social Security program alive, politicians plan to increase immigrant workers and hike minimal wages. Social Security payment will not double like minimal wage. In addition, with stimulus and business loan that require no repayment, Feds are printing money to keep the country float, but it also means our money is thinner than ever before.

Insurance cost: My parents has plan F for Medicare supplement and it cost them more than 10K per year.

I feel that in order to secure a comfortable retirement in the US, I must work until 60 or 65 if not later.
However, if I wish to retire early like 50 to 55, I will have to move out of the US to stretch my savings based as an option.
If I move oversea: I have enough short term security to last me until 65, so there wont be a gap for social security payment and 401K. I can also lease out my condo in the US to net 1.3K a month (taxes, HOA).
As for expenses: Insurance is about 1K a year, minimal rent would be about 500, food is 500 a month, others amount to another 500. Of course, there are the option to buy a flat for 100 to 200K or Villa for about 300 to 400K which grant residency and eligibility for EU citizenship in a few years that carry other layers of benefits(like free healthcare).

I am trying to raise some awareness that we don't all have to work until 65 if we are willing to venture outside of our comfort zones. For people who work remotely, this could be a seamless plan.

 

[iamapharmacist]

I do agree that it would be a lot easier to stay in the US. We don't have to pick up a new language or form a new network of friends.

However, I am concerned with the following: political climates, wage increase outpace SSI. Cost of insurance.

Political climate: Pendulum swing from extreme right to far left. With each presidential candidate received historical high votes. There are no incentives for politicians to move toward the middle. It will take decade to heal the nation. Violent crime is up by 800% against Asian.

To keep Social Security program alive, politicians plan to increase immigrant workers and hike minimal wages. Social Security payment will not double like minimal wage. In addition, with stimulus and business loan that require no repayment, Feds are printing money to keep the country float, but it also means our money is thinner than ever before.

Insurance cost: My parents has plan F for Medicare supplement and it cost them more than 10K per year.

I feel that in order to secure a comfortable retirement in the US, I must work until 60 or 65 if not later.
However, if I wish to retire early like 50 to 55, I will have to move out of the US to stretch my savings based as an option.
If I move oversea: I have enough short term security to last me until 65, so there wont be a gap for social security payment and 401K. I can also lease out my condo in the US to net 1.3K a month (taxes, HOA).
As for expenses: Insurance is about 1K a year, minimal rent would be about 500, food is 500 a month, others amount to another 500. Of course, there are the option to buy a flat for 100 to 200K or Villa for about 300 to 400K which grant residency and eligibility for EU citizenship in a few years that carry other layers of benefits(like free healthcare).

I am trying to raise some awareness that we don't all have to work until 65 if we are willing to venture outside of our comfort zones. For people who work remotely, this could be a seamless plan.

So if one were to retire with $1mil, where would be the best place to go? I could potentially retire in S. Korea but their cost of living is drastically increasing.

 

[rickyroxy]

I do agree that it would be a lot easier to stay in the US. We don't have to pick up a new language or form a new network of friends.

However, I am concerned with the following: political climates, wage increase outpace SSI. Cost of insurance.

Political climate: Pendulum swing from extreme right to far left. With each presidential candidate received historical high votes. There are no incentives for politicians to move toward the middle. It will take decade to heal the nation. Violent crime is up by 800% against Asian.

To keep Social Security program alive, politicians plan to increase immigrant workers and hike minimal wages. Social Security payment will not double like minimal wage. In addition, with stimulus and business loan that require no repayment, Feds are printing money to keep the country float, but it also means our money is thinner than ever before.

Insurance cost: My parents has plan F for Medicare supplement and it cost them more than 10K per year.

I feel that in order to secure a comfortable retirement in the US, I must work until 60 or 65 if not later.
However, if I wish to retire early like 50 to 55, I will have to move out of the US to stretch my savings based as an option.
If I move oversea: I have enough short term security to last me until 65, so there wont be a gap for social security payment and 401K. I can also lease out my condo in the US to net 1.3K a month (taxes, HOA).
As for expenses: Insurance is about 1K a year, minimal rent would be about 500, food is 500 a month, others amount to another 500. Of course, there are the option to buy a flat for 100 to 200K or Villa for about 300 to 400K which grant residency and eligibility for EU citizenship in a few years that carry other layers of benefits(like free healthcare).

I am trying to raise some awareness that we don't all have to work until 65 if we are willing to venture outside of our comfort zones. For people who work remotely, this could be a seamless plan.

I agree whole heartedly with this idea. I am on similar path to retire early and if possible to my native country where cost of living is cheap and I can retire comfortably with my current savings. Only issue is children. They are US born and may want to come back.

 

[Sine Cura]

Wouldn't move to anywhere in Europe (except Finland maybe)
Wouldn't move to east Asia
Can't claim asylum in Canada (yet)
So what's left?

 

[ornithoptor]

Wouldn't move to anywhere in Europe (except Finland maybe)
Wouldn't move to east Asia
Can't claim asylum in Canada (yet)
So what's left?

Actually there are a lot of Caribbean nations that offer this type Citizenship programs: Antigua, Barbuda, Dominica, Grenada, Saint Kitts, Saint Lucia.
Bahama, Belize, Costa Rica, Dominican Republic, and Panama. Investment requirement is lower than the European nations. Definitely something to entertain.

 

[lord999]

Get a government job and don't screw up for 3 years to get permanent status.

I saw the end of the .COM era in my classes. I never forgot that otherwise highly paid engineers were taking classes with me to count to 30 in their late 30s and early 40s who were making $150k in 1999 before getting laid off. I think we got dgroulx that way too as she was in that industry.

Never thought that pharmacy was going to be a long-term career, so further education it was. I lost probably the best years of the boom to get a rather nice sinecure which is definitely paying off now.

A lot of these plans are predicated on the economic structure being the same, which I don't think it will be either. It'll be a lot harder to travel. Also, to those who think Nordic nations are great, well, you're all going to be equally poor. I have personal experience with Denmark, Iceland, and Sweden, and even the top coded salaries in the academic world make less than your techs do after taxes. On the other hand, they are taken care of, but it's not that sweet a life. If you want to take advantage of the currency arbitrage and move to a poorer country, that doesn't last either if there's major swings like the 1970s. If you are to emigrate, you need to speak the local language. If you learn Danish, that's practically three for one!

You're all just going to have to hustle, find passive income, go through reeducation, and accept less. Unless you are uniformed, in which case, you'll always get something in retirement. I'm surprised not more people take the FIRE option through the DoD.

Or you can be Civil Service. It's unusual that you're the worst employee there after three years. I think all of us in Civil Service have stories about how screwed up it can be here (the outpatient pharmacist at Murfreesboro who verified 6 orders in a year comes to mind which caused all of those pharmacists to become contractors).

 

[lord999]

You know what’s funny, each and every professional forum here says this is the end of the road for them....do not make the mistake they did. That in 10-20 yrs, their profession is dead. Go on to the MD forum, optometry, NP/PA/mid levels complaining about over saturation as well...so if all these professions area dead in 10-20 yrs, who the heck is gonna be left....I know I know, BLS data....but still, you gotta wonder.

Well, think about nursing and PT's. PT's had theirs about 2005-2008. Nursing the same. And look, they're back now! Minus the old generation. We always need new immigrant suckers into the professions.

It's definitely over for the MD's in terms of collect a paycheck jobs. The CPT pressure on them is immense, and I feel for their outrageous requirements for documentation and CPT churn. Midlevels have always had these issues especially now that they realize the game is the same as dental hygienists and pharmaceutical reps in terms of ageism.

But that doesn't meant they aren't jobs, just not at the level you're used to. But unless you have a way out, work for less you will until they don't want you anymore.

We all have to make a living somehow, and one of the big questions I've always had is what job can I work when I'm old. It's not an easy question to answer. Pharmacy is a good choice, if they'll have you.

On the optimistic side, think of all those front-end managers who are paid a third of what you do, and they come in daily too. There will be jobs, just not great ones if it comes to it.

 

[rxdawg21]

I saw the end of the .COM era in my classes. I never forgot that otherwise highly paid engineers were taking classes with me to count to 30 in their late 30s and early 40s who were making $150k in 1999 before getting laid off. I think we got dgroulx that way too as she was in that industry.

Never thought that pharmacy was going to be a long-term career, so further education it was. I lost probably the best years of the boom to get a rather nice sinecure which is definitely paying off now.

A lot of these plans are predicated on the economic structure being the same, which I don't think it will be either. It'll be a lot harder to travel. Also, to those who think Nordic nations are great, well, you're all going to be equally poor. I have personal experience with Denmark, Iceland, and Sweden, and even the top coded salaries in the academic world make less than your techs do after taxes. On the other hand, they are taken care of, but it's not that sweet a life. If you want to take advantage of the currency arbitrage and move to a poorer country, that doesn't last either if there's major swings like the 1970s. If you are to emigrate, you need to speak the local language. If you learn Danish, that's practically three for one!

You're all just going to have to hustle, find passive income, go through reeducation, and accept less. Unless you are uniformed, in which case, you'll always get something in retirement. I'm surprised not more people take the FIRE option through the DoD.

Or you can be Civil Service. It's unusual that you're the worst employee there after three years. I think all of us in Civil Service have stories about how screwed up it can be here (the outpatient pharmacist at Murfreesboro who verified 6 orders in a year comes to mind which caused all of those pharmacists to become contractors).

You have a link to that Murfreesboro story?

 

[lord999]

You have a link to that Murfreesboro story?

No, because it was internally handled. I have the red tape suicide there, and there is possibly an OPM case of the swinging supervisor.

VA Worker Sentenced for Taking Kickbacks

JAN 28, 2022 - NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) -- A Veterans Affairs employee was sentenced to nearly four years in prison for taking more than $115,000 in kickbacks on the purchase of red tape - actual red tape. The tape is stamped with the word "security" and is intended to deter tampering...

oklahoman.com

 

[RXDOC1986]

I do agree that it would be a lot easier to stay in the US. We don't have to pick up a new language or form a new network of friends.

However, I am concerned with the following: political climates, wage increase outpace SSI. Cost of insurance.

Political climate: Pendulum swing from extreme right to far left. With each presidential candidate received historical high votes. There are no incentives for politicians to move toward the middle. It will take decade to heal the nation. Violent crime is up by 800% against Asian.

To keep Social Security program alive, politicians plan to increase immigrant workers and hike minimal wages. Social Security payment will not double like minimal wage. In addition, with stimulus and business loan that require no repayment, Feds are printing money to keep the country float, but it also means our money is thinner than ever before.

Insurance cost: My parents has plan F for Medicare supplement and it cost them more than 10K per year.

I feel that in order to secure a comfortable retirement in the US, I must work until 60 or 65 if not later.
However, if I wish to retire early like 50 to 55, I will have to move out of the US to stretch my savings based as an option.
If I move oversea: I have enough short term security to last me until 65, so there wont be a gap for social security payment and 401K. I can also lease out my condo in the US to net 1.3K a month (taxes, HOA).
As for expenses: Insurance is about 1K a year, minimal rent would be about 500, food is 500 a month, others amount to another 500. Of course, there are the option to buy a flat for 100 to 200K or Villa for about 300 to 400K which grant residency and eligibility for EU citizenship in a few years that carry other layers of benefits(like free healthcare).

I am trying to raise some awareness that we don't all have to work until 65 if we are willing to venture outside of our comfort zones. For people who work remotely, this could be a seamless plan.

Some real good points and useful information. I am 62.5yo and have been working as a pharmacist for the last 37 years. With all the socio-economic issues that we all face, the US is still the best place to live. It is the number one destination for a huge number of emigrants, even from "First World Countries". Yes, the grass always seems greener on the other side! But unless you have actually lived in, not vacationed in, another country, you have no idea about the hardships. It's much more involved than cheap rent and groceries. So don't pack your bags, just yet.
As an immigrant, we struggled getting here, and getting our citizenship. My dad worked until he was 81. Heaven forbid, I work past the retirement age of 55. It's just a huge privilege being able to work as long as you want. I am staying put, taking my chances here, rather than a chit-hole of a Third World Country, because rent is lower and cheap health care. Have any of you even experienced the level of medical care you get at a bargain price? I have.
If you are worried about political turmoil and violent crime, just take a look at where you are planning to move to. You ain't seen nuthin like it.
Governments falling, mass executions, people hung from street lamps. Banks closing with no warning. Now that is political turmoil.
As far as crime against Asians up 800%, ever hear about Khemer Rouge in Cambodia, and the massacre of 2 Million people (Asians) as ethnic cleansing. I hear that violent crime rate % was up way past 800%.

As for me, I have adult kids, hopeful for grand kids, there is no way I am moving out of state, let alone the country.

On a lighter note, this seems like a very innocuous thread, yet three fellow posters were banned shortly afterward. I hope I haven't said too much!