Retaking a 515 score

[ktriphosphate]

I know this has been heralded as a bad idea, but was looking to get some insight. I scored 131/129/127/128 and am a current junior that will be applying at the end of their senior year (looking to matriculate in 2025). I have yet to take biochem and am looking to retake the MCAT during next summer, after which I will have completed 2 semesters of biochemistry and have had ample time to study. I made some poor decisions studying for this test (ie took about a month off during studying due to external factors so only studied for about 2 months total ~ 175-200 hours, didn;t finish many of the suggested question banks / anki) and I know I could have done significantly better. Ultimately, I know my score is still strong for a decent amount of schools, however I believe I am a strong applicant EC / GPA wise and do not wish to screen myself out for top schools because of this score (I'm about 10th percentile at many top schools and am an ORM applicant). I also do not know if all schools will accept my score as I am looking to matriculate 3-years after taking the test. Finally, among other reasons, one of the reasons I want to be competitive for top schools is because many host strong PhD programs in areas of my interest, which I am potentially looking to pursue alongside an MD degree.

I've already identified weaknesses in my study strategy for the specific subsections I scored low on and strongly believe I would be able to score significantly higher on a retake. For reference, highest FL score was 523. I am confident in my ability to replicate my CP & CARS score (averaged 131 CP and 130 CARS on FL's) and believe I would be able to increase my BB and PS subsection scores as well with additional time dedicated to content and practice problems.

Let me know what you think

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[i-doctor]

When I was an ophthalmology resident, one line from a Professor stood out to me. Regarding cataract surgery, he always said “the enemy of Very Good is…Perfect”. That is true in eye surgery. Trying to make something perfect that is already very good (such as fussing with the incision or the lens implant) can sometimes result in disaster.
I think the same advice applies here.

 

[Goro]

The MCAT is not merely an assessment of competence, it is also a test of judgment. We in a medical school admissions are wary of perfectionists.

 

[EArlyBirdGetsTheWorm]

If you really want to retake it go for it, but I dont think your score would be the reason that you get rejected from top schools. I would personally use that time to get more clinical experience/community service hours.

 

[NALOL>>EU]

The MCAT is not merely an assessment of competence, it is also a test of judgment. We in a medical school admissions are wary of perfectionists.

While goro put it down wisely and I'd follow his suggestion whole-heartedly. However, I'd still like to play the devil's advocate here for a little bit, since myself is a retaker.

OP, it seems like you know what you are doing, and have a competitive background that makes you eligible for the most cutting-throat programs. At the end of the day, it is about being honest with yourself: would you be happy if you only go to a top 10/20 program? If that's the case (it sounds like you wanna do MD/PhD as well), then it makes sense for the retake. You need every opportunity to make your application stand out. You don't want to come into the application season, and then start to regret about "oh I wished I took the exam again and I would be so much more competitive". Despite perfection is a fallacy itself, you don't want to give the reviewers a single reason to eliminate your file from 5,000 other applicants who might have 520+ MCATs. Assuming all other parts of your profolio stands out, you want to make sure your MCAT is not dragging you down and making you lose the IIs that could be yours.

On the other hand, you also need to be honest with yourself about the "potential improvement". Before your score comes out, it's still Schrödinger's cat--you can't assume your score will just increase by 8 points because "my fl says so" and "I took biochem". Are these FLs retaken and inflated? Were you able to identify huge content gaps? Why did you take the exam, knowing you have things that are not reviewed? You want to use your best judgement here, since on this exam, you have to do better. Not worse. Not the same. Only better (by a big margin). If you get a 518, for many people 3 points is a decent increase, but might actually hurt you in your case.

Lastly, will retaking hinder any of your other endeavors? If you are not studying, will you be using this time for research/shadowing/volunteering/employment...etc. You need to make sure the time you sacrificed is well worth it. Again, that probably means you have to get a 520+ in order to justify the effort you spend.

I hope this helps! At the end of the day, it's still your decision. I retook my MCAT despite many people suggesting otherwise, and improved 10+ points. You wanna leave no regrets for yourself--if that means give yourself a second chance, do it. If that means not worrying about a lukewarm score after the retake, then don't.

 

[Mad Jack]

The MCAT is not merely an assessment of competence, it is also a test of judgment. We in a medical school admissions are wary of perfectionists.

This. If I saw someone retake this score because of anything but it aging out it would be a red flag

 

[Mad Jack]

While goro put it down wisely and I'd follow his suggestion whole-heartedly. However, I'd still like to play the devil's advocate here for a little bit, since myself is a retaker.

OP, it seems like you know what you are doing, and have a competitive background that makes you eligible for the most cutting-throat programs. At the end of the day, it is about being honest with yourself: would you be happy if you only go to a top 10/20 program? If that's the case (it sounds like you wanna do MD/PhD as well), then it makes sense for the retake. You need every opportunity to make your application stand out. You don't want to come into the application season, and then start to regret about "oh I wished I took the exam again and I would be so much more competitive". Despite perfection is a fallacy itself, you don't want to give the reviewers a single reason to eliminate your file from 5,000 other applicants who might have 520+ MCATs. Assuming all other parts of your profolio stands out, you want to make sure your MCAT is not dragging you down and making you lose the IIs that could be yours.

On the other hand, you also need to be honest with yourself about the "potential improvement". Before your score comes out, it's still Schrödinger's cat--you can't assume your score will just increase by 8 points because "my fl says so" and "I took biochem". Are these FLs retaken and inflated? Were you able to identify huge content gaps? Why did you take the exam, knowing you have things that are not reviewed? You want to use your best judgement here, since on this exam, you have to do better. Not worse. Not the same. Only better (by a big margin). If you get a 518, for many people 3 points is a decent increase, but might actually hurt you in your case.

Lastly, will retaking hinder any of your other endeavors? If you are not studying, will you be using this time for research/shadowing/volunteering/employment...etc. You need to make sure the time you sacrificed is well worth it. Again, that probably means you have to get a 520+ in order to justify the effort you spend.

I hope this helps! At the end of the day, it's still your decision. I retook my MCAT despite many people suggesting otherwise, and improved 10+ points. You wanna leave no regrets for yourself--if that means give yourself a second chance, do it. If that means not worrying about a lukewarm score after the retake, then don't.

Most top schools average MCAT scores, so you would need a drastic increase to get to that 520 average. A 10 point increase is exceedingly unlikely this high on the curve, and odds of getting burned are substantial

 

[ktriphosphate]

This. If I saw someone retake this score because of anything but it aging out it would be a red flag

I'm very curious about this line of reasoning? I understand that we as applicants don't want to be viewed as perfectionists by adcoms but why would retaking a score that wouldn't qualify you for a multitude of schools be viewed as a negative endeavour. I would understand retaking a 518+ as being viewed as perfectionist but as my score stands, if
I apply to almost any school within the top 20, I would be essentially screened out based on the numerical stats. Is wanting to be the most competitive applicant you can be within reason, viewed as a red flag?

 

[Mad Jack]

I'm very curious about this line of reasoning? I understand that we as applicants don't want to be viewed as perfectionists by adcoms but why would retaking a score that wouldn't qualify you for a multitude of schools be viewed as a negative endeavour. I would understand retaking a 518+ as being viewed as perfectionist but as my score stands, if
I apply to almost any school within the top 20, I would be essentially screened out based on the numerical stats. Is wanting to be the most competitive applicant you can be within reason, viewed as a red flag?

Well, I'm not on a T20 adcom so take that for what you will. For lower and mid tier schools it would often be viewed as "this guy probably retook a 515 because he's got an ego and will be miserable or have a chip on his shoulder at a lower tier school, probably best for both of us not to bring him on board." The only other big reason would be insecurity to the point it is impairing your judgment which also isn't the best look

 

[LizzyM]

When my adcom would ask, "who retakes a 515?" I would say, "Someone who wants to go here!" That said, it is a huge risk as has been described above. If you are otherwise a shoo-in for a T-20 based on your GPA, research portfolio, community service and clinical experience, then it might be reasonable to go for it if you are routinely doing 130 or better in each section on every practice test. If you are going to retake and do 517, then you've made your bed and have to cross your fingers that it doesn't screw you out of your chances.

 

[ktriphosphate]

Well, I'm not on a T20 adcom so take that for what you will. For lower and mid tier schools it would often be viewed as "this guy probably retook a 515 because he's got an ego and will be miserable or have a chip on his shoulder at a lower tier school, probably best for both of us not to bring him on board." The only other big reason would be insecurity to the point it is impairing your judgmentwhich also isn't the best look

I see. Thank you for the perspective, it's good to note

 

[Angus Avagadro]

I know this has been heralded as a bad idea, but was looking to get some insight. I scored 131/129/127/128 and am a current junior that will be applying at the end of their senior year (looking to matriculate in 2025). I have yet to take biochem and am looking to retake the MCAT during next summer, after which I will have completed 2 semesters of biochemistry and have had ample time to study. I made some poor decisions studying for this test (ie took about a month off during studying due to external factors so only studied for about 2 months total ~ 175-200 hours, didn;t finish many of the suggested question banks / anki) and I know I could have done significantly better. Ultimately, I know my score is still strong for a decent amount of schools, however I believe I am a strong applicant EC / GPA wise and do not wish to screen myself out for top schools because of this score (I'm about 10th percentile at many top schools and am an ORM applicant). I also do not know if all schools will accept my score as I am looking to matriculate 3-years after taking the test. Finally, among other reasons, one of the reasons I want to be competitive for top schools is because many host strong PhD programs in areas of my interest, which I am potentially looking to pursue alongside an MD degree.

I've already identified weaknesses in my study strategy for the specific subsections I scored low on and strongly believe I would be able to score significantly higher on a retake. For reference, highest FL score was 523. I am confident in my ability to replicate my CP & CARS score (averaged 131 CP and 130 CARS on FL's) and believe I would be able to increase my BB and PS subsection scores as well with additional time dedicated to content and practice problems.

Let me know what you think

I have seen students re take scores like this ,(94%tile),and do about the same or worse. Not a pretty picture, an unforced error. You wont have to worry about being screened by schools, you will have screened yourself out. Explain your thinking on how doing the same or a point better helps you? Only 6 people in 100 did better than you. That's plenty good enough imo. If you want to roll the dice, it's your choice. Life is full of choices. Make good ones.

 

[Faha]

Past statistics for retake of the MCAT with your score show that almost half score the same or lower. Another 1/3 increase their score to the 516 to 519 range. So 80% of retakes result in a score with no benefit or a detrimental outcome. Small increases do not help your chances since you are expected to do slightly better on a retake.

 

[markandey]

@LizzyM sent you a pm about a similar topic...

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

I don't understand why anyone trying to score better should be looked at unfavorably.... medicine is full of perfectionists. Most of my classmates are perfectionists. We get bogged down when we miss something while doing a physical exam. We just want to keep getting better at it. Most surgeons have to be perfectionists to provide the best care. So being a perfectionist is really not a bad thing in medicine. That means you will do your utmost to provide the best care possible for your patient. Is that good for your mental health? Probably not the best thing to do. But as a patient, I would want to see a perfectionist doctor rather than someone who thinks enough is good. OP, if you think you can score higher, go re-take it. T20's are heavy on stats. It's just the way it is. I am on the Adcom of a t5. Every time, I see someone retaking a decent MCAT score say (515 to 518), and break 522. I look at it favorably. Even those who didn't improve that much. I still don't look at them unfavorably. It has nothing to do with judgment. It's all about your goal and how much work you are willing to put in. At the end of the day, it's really about the opportunity cost associated with retaking the exam. Tbh, nowadays 515 is really kind of low if you want to have a realistic shot at a t20.

 

[LunaOri]

If you really want to retake it go for it, but I dont think your score would be the reason that you get rejected from top schools. I would personally use that time to get more clinical experience/community service hours.

Exactly!

 

[cj_cregg]

This is a 90th percentile score. It will not keep you out of any medical school. There are so, so many more valuable things you could be doing with your time and money to prepare you to be a good doctor than retaking a 90th percentile MCAT.

 

[tompremed]

Unspoken here but unfortunately a fact of life - are you a URM? If URM, 515 is good enough to get into any school. If ORM, then to get into top 20 you will need to do better. 515 is roughly the average for #35-40 ranked schools. Of course ECs and GPA are other variables to consider but you will need to make up a lot for the MCAT.

 

[EArlyBirdGetsTheWorm]

Unspoken here but unfortunately a fact of life - are you a URM? If URM, 515 is good enough to get into any school. If ORM, then to get into top 20 you will need to do better. 515 is roughly the average for #35-40 ranked schools. Of course ECs and GPA are other variables to consider but you will need to make up a lot for the MCAT.

People get so worked up on stats that they forget that med schools are becoming more holistic. There are plenty of ppl out there with 520s and 4.0 gpa that dont get a single acceptance. Either because they have no experiences to talk about or dont have a reason for going into medicine. If OP will be able to talk about his experiences well and as nothing else that is glaring in his application than sure if they have money to kill go retake the mcat.
Also I really dislike the URM excuse people make. People make it seem like med school is full of URM's with low stats. Last time I checked the majority of people are not URM.

 

[Goro]

Unspoken here but unfortunately a fact of life - are you a URM? If URM, 515 is good enough to get into any school. If ORM, then to get into top 20 you will need to do better. 515 is roughly the average for #35-40 ranked schools. Of course ECs and GPA are other variables to consider but you will need to make up a lot for the MCAT.

There are at least 30 schools in the "Top 20". A 515 score will get the OP into some of them. OP can be a neurosurgeon even if they go to an Albany/Drexel class school. The odds go up for Emory/Einstein class schools where the OP will be more than welcome.

 

[Elite Medical Prep]

I have to agree with everyone above. Retaking a 515 is unnecessary and will likely even hurt your application (a 515 is more than enough for almost every USMD). Use your free time to enhance your app in other ways - clinical hours, volunteering, research, etc. These will help you way more than retaking the MCAT.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

The score likely will keep you out of top schools just due to the nature of the competition but taking it is very risky and not worth it. You would probably need a 522+ for it to be worth it. Anything lower and the perfectionist again is a bigger negative than positives gained from a slightly higher score.

If you look at MSAR for schools like HMS, NYU, JHU, WUSTL, the 10th percentiles are above 515 iirc and those spots tend to be reserved for extraordinary EC candidates.

With all this being said, 515 is perfectly good enough for many MD schools

 

[Goro]

One of the reasons we don't like perfectionists is that even with a P/F grading system, they're always in your office arguing over why their 95 on the anatomy exam should actually be a 96. Sometimes they use such arcane math to explain their logic that space-time starts to warp and my desk starts to exceed the speed of light.

Others try to learn everything and end up learning nothing.

 

[professinalDJ_futureMD]

Coming from someone who scored a 515, don't waste your time. I was accepted to multiple top-50 schools and waitlisted IVY. I know for a fact that my sub-3.6 gpa and C in stats hurt me WAY MORE than my MCAT for top-25 schools. You'll become a better speaker for your interviews, a better philanthropist in volunteer activities, a better friend in time spent with others, a better mentor spending that time mentoring younger students - i would hate to see you dump time into MCAT studying just to marginally improve a stat glossed over by adcom's before they offer interviews and never look at it again. Will it help get interviews at T-25 schools? Well, surely this is a likely case. But at what cost are you willing to retake the MCAT facing the risk of non-improvement? A score of 3 points could be three more questions correct (1 bio or psych or cars or chem from a point-barrier), the sheer statistical variance on those tests means that incremental success (or decline) could be outside the control of your preparations.

 

[shambho]

I wouldn't. Unless you're absolutely sure you could get a 520+, I don't think the risk is worth the benefit here.

One scenario where retaking may be viable: you happened to be on the verge of death, but decided to take the MCAT anyway because applying to medical school was your final wish.

On your way back home from the MCAT, you decided to stop by an old-school diner to reflect on your life. You saw that the diner staff was in a verbal altercation with a man who had already eaten but did not have any money. As they were about to chase him out, you paid for his meal. After all, you don't have long to live. Why not do a good deed?

He thanked you and asked if there was anything he could do for you before leaving.

You jokingly said, "Well, I don't have long to live. Can you make me healthy again?"

He closed his eyes for a moment and placed his hand on your head. You jerked back, surprised, but decided to play along. After keeping his head on your head for a few seconds, he nodded and left. You sat down and ate your steak tips and fries.

When you woke up the next morning, you realized you were cured!

After spending some time calling your parents, trying to explain the situation in between bouts of uncontrolled crying, you decided that you were going to use your new lease on life to save the lives of others!

You got a 515 when you were on the verge of death. Now, you are healthy. Go get that 528 and write the most brilliant personal statement adcoms had ever seen.



Jokes aside, congratulations on a great score!

 

[2024 or 5 ?]

Don't fall for the fallacy that a Top 20 school makes you a Top 20 doctor. Certain schools are able to take the top scoring students based on reputation. These schools may be very valuable if you are going into research. They don't produce better clinicians.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

One of the reasons we don't like perfectionists is that even with a P/F grading system, they're always in your office arguing over why their 95 on the anatomy exam should actually be a 96. Sometimes they use such arcane math to explain their logic that space-time starts to warp and my desk starts to exceed the speed of light.

Others try to learn everything and end up learning nothing.

That’s not perfectionism. That’s idiocy.

 

[PhD_to_DO]

I know this has been heralded as a bad idea, but was looking to get some insight. I scored 131/129/127/128 and am a current junior that will be applying at the end of their senior year (looking to matriculate in 2025). I have yet to take biochem and am looking to retake the MCAT during next summer, after which I will have completed 2 semesters of biochemistry and have had ample time to study. I made some poor decisions studying for this test (ie took about a month off during studying due to external factors so only studied for about 2 months total ~ 175-200 hours, didn;t finish many of the suggested question banks / anki) and I know I could have done significantly better. Ultimately, I know my score is still strong for a decent amount of schools, however I believe I am a strong applicant EC / GPA wise and do not wish to screen myself out for top schools because of this score (I'm about 10th percentile at many top schools and am an ORM applicant). I also do not know if all schools will accept my score as I am looking to matriculate 3-years after taking the test. Finally, among other reasons, one of the reasons I want to be competitive for top schools is because many host strong PhD programs in areas of my interest, which I am potentially looking to pursue alongside an MD degree.

I've already identified weaknesses in my study strategy for the specific subsections I scored low on and strongly believe I would be able to score significantly higher on a retake. For reference, highest FL score was 523. I am confident in my ability to replicate my CP & CARS score (averaged 131 CP and 130 CARS on FL's) and believe I would be able to increase my BB and PS subsection scores as well with additional time dedicated to content and practice problems.

Let me know what you think

My wife interviewed an applicant, a few weeks ago, who had a 515 and decided to retake. The applicant scored a 509 on her retake. The committee had questions about her decision making among other things. There is zero guarantee that you score higher if you retake and even if you do, you may still face questions about your decision making. In both these cases, that could hurt you.

 

[mudfud26]

Retaking is a waste of your time, money, and energy (think of all the stress from prepping, taking it, and anxiously waiting for your score). Most MD-PhD averages hover around 515, while T20 MD-only have 515+ averages.

Numbers get your foot in the door with MD-PhD, but AdCom is especially interested in research. I got in MD-PhD with the same MCAT, lots of productive research, and an upward trending below average GPA. If you want to do MSTP/MD-PhD, invest your time and energy in your research and learning about the physician-scientist pathway.

 

[MB190E]

A 515 on the MCAT puts you in the top 10% of test takers--you won't be screened out of most schools. In fact, I can think of a few friends off the top of my head with sub 515 scores that are at T25 schools right now.

Prep for the MCAT is so time consuming that if you took all the time that it will take you to score a 520 or whatever you want would likely be better utilized on polishing your PS and or experiences.

Have you considered the fact that you could very well score below a 515 on your second try? Good luck explaining that one.
What's the explanation during the interview going to be for retaking the MCAT? "I thought I could do better" doesn't cut it.

Unless you have some crazy extenuating circumstance I can't think about (red flag on app, low GPA, etc) don't. Not even for your app, just for your sanity. If you're only going to be happy at a top school, you'll only be happy at a top residency, you'll only be happy as an attending at a top hospital... it's a slippery slope. Chill out and enjoy the ride.

 

[StrawHatPillow]

I agreed with whoever said if you’re aiming for a T20 515 is kinda low. I’m a current M4 with a 514 and my experience was that I didn’t get any interview invites from any T20. I think it’s important to know what you’re aiming for. If T20 is what you’re thinking, I’d say you’ll probably need a better score.

I don’t know if what ADCOM looks unfavorably means (granted it doesn’t look good if you score lower), but if you are confident you can score higher then idk if you have anything to lose. With a 515, you should expect to get probably minimal top tier, some mid and many lower tier. I would try to get a sense of what score increase you’ll need to change that proportions of interview. And if you can’t meet that bump, it’s probably not worth it.

Nonetheless, 515 is a good score and def on track to get into med school. Congrats on your success!!

 

[Mr. Fahrenheit]

Hi,

I know you have gotten a lot of replies for this already, but as someone who was just accepted with a 515 I just wanted to say I think you would be wasting your time and money if you retook the MCAT when you don't have to. Seriously. People treat the MCAT like it's some kind of golden ticket into a good medical school, but it isn't. I'm just telling you this since you haven't been through the process, but much of what you think matters in this process does not matter nearly as much as you think it does. I think it's just hard to understand how insanely competitive this process is and how hard you will have to work to even get into a mid-tier school even with good stats. Consider that most of the people you are up against are all really good candidates and you need to somehow stand out from that, which most people don't.

I think you are underestimating the likelihood that you will get a lower score or the same score as the one you have now. I had a 516 on the MCAT when I applied the first time. I was honestly surprised that I did as well as I did, because my study habits were abysmal. When I re-applied this year, my MCAT was about to expire so I had to re-take it again. My study habits had changed a lot since the first time I took it and I also just had a much better attitude. I studied very hard. Guess what I got? A 515. As someone else pointed out, the most likely outcomes are going to be that either your score goes down, stays the same, or at most increases by a couple of points. What schools are going to care if you have a 516 or 517 on the MCAT if they didn't care about a 515?

My advice is that you need to be realistic about why it is you think you need a better MCAT score to get into the schools you want to get into. You need to ask yourself whether it's really realistic for you to be going to these schools at all. My guess from not knowing you at all is that if you got a 515 the first time you took the MCAT, most of these schools you are describing are going to be out of your reach. It also sounds like if you truly had the stats/story/whatever that would have gotten the attention of these schools, you probably could get in despite the 515. Which is okay. My point is that you don't have to go to a top school to get what you want. You just need to think about what it is exactly that you want from this, why you want it, and set realistic goals for yourself.

(Also I don't know who needs to hear this, but a good MCAT score is not affirmation that you are a good or smart or special person. It's just a test score.)

 

[2024 or 5 ?]

Love the responses. At what minimum score should one retake the MCAT? With a goal to get into any MD school?

 

[gyngyn]

Love the responses. At what minimum score should one retake the MCAT? With a goal to get into any MD school?

It will vary depending on the rest of the application as well as state of residence.

 

[Goro]

That’s not perfectionism. That’s idiocy.

You proved my point

 

[gyngyn]

That’s not perfectionism. That’s idiocy.

These conditions have the same result.

 

[brophtho]

I was in your position not long ago. I had a similar score, and I was pulling my hair out whether or not I should retake since my practices were higher. Ended up not retaking, got into a T20 anyway.

Now going through the residency application process, I realize as students, we think scores are everything. Most admissions committees will view your score as a certain threshold, anything above that threshold is simply icing on the cake. 515 will be good for pretty much any program in the country, T20 included. What's more important is what you bring to the table. T20 programs are more interested in your story, what unique life experiences you have that will add to your medical school class. This is way more important than a score.

That being said, if you decide to retake and you score significantly higher, as a reviewer I would be impressed. However, if you jump but a small amount say from 515 to 517, a slight question mark will be raised on your judgment, since these 2 points are relatively meaningless.

 

[i-doctor]

Love the responses. At what minimum score should one retake the MCAT? With a goal to get into any MD

I was in your position not long ago. I had a similar score, and I was pulling my hair out whether or not I should retake since my practices were higher. Ended up not retaking, got into a T20 anyway.

Now going through the residency application process, I realize as students, we think scores are everything. Most admissions committees will view your score as a certain threshold, anything above that threshold is simply icing on the cake. 515 will be good for pretty much any program in the country, T20 included. What's more important is what you bring to the table. T20 programs are more interested in your story, what unique life experiences you have that will add to your medical school class. This is way more important than a score.

That being said, if you decide to retake and you score significantly higher, as a reviewer I would be impressed. However, if you jump but a small amount say from 515 to 517, a slight question mark will be raised on your judgment, since these 2 points are relatively meaningless.

Brophtho—
Good luck in your application for anesthesia! I just read some of your old posts. (I’m an ophthalmologist here). You will have NO problem matching despite having all that previous ophtho research. In fact, the anesthesia programs will be FLATTERED that you prefer their field to ophtho and will know that you surely would have matched into Ophtho if you wanted to. Many people come to choose anesthesia indirectly like you did. (Not many kids dream of becoming an anesthesiologist when they grow up!) You’ll see.

 

[Pshalt]

I had a 513 MCAT, retook it after timing out, got same score 3 years later, had a sub 3.3 sGPA and got into a T5 school because of my clinical and research background. I was flat out rejected from multiple t20-T50 schools because of my GPA, but interviewed at several Ivys and UC schools because of my story. Tell a good story.

 

[calivianya]

So, not going to lie, I haven’t read all of the other posts… but this thread title came across my email and I would just like to share my experience as someone who got a 515 and had a 4.0 most recent bachelor’s in biology with a chem minor (roughly 3.6/3.7 overall) and was only accepted to DO programs.

I had no research, shadowed for <20 hours, and had minimal volunteering. I figured my >10,000 hours working in healthcare would make all of that silly checkbox fluff somewhat superfluous. Apparently many adcoms disagreed with me. I had few MD schools get excited about my work experience, whereas everyone talked about in my DO school interviews.

I did receive the magic 3 MD interviews, and at one of them, the applicants were milling around in the lobby talking about their PIs all knowing each other, and I asked out of curiosity if there was anyone else who didn’t have any research. They all looked at me like I’d grown a second head and nobody said anything, so either I was the only one or the other people were afraid to admit it. I was also told in a different MD interview that I should reapply next year after I did more shadowing. I wanted to ask what part of working very closely with my intensivist coworkers for >5 years made it seem like I needed more shadowing to understand what doctors do… but I didn’t.

So, I’d say retake it if the rest of your application is not well-rounded if you want to get a leg up despite other deficiencies, but if you check all of the rest of the boxes, you should be fine.

DO school wasn’t the end of the world for me, btw. I matched radiology at a large university hospital (though not in my preferred climate so it was low on my rank list) and matched a super chill TY where my coresidents have matches like Mayo Clinic (Rochester) and Hopkins in PMR/gas, and multiple derm matches all over the country, so I honestly don’t think I could have done much better at a MD program. I realize this is a very different ball game now with step 1 P/F, though.

 

[Mad Jack]

I don't understand why anyone trying to score better should be looked at unfavorably.... medicine is full of perfectionists. Most of my classmates are perfectionists. We get bogged down when we miss something while doing a physical exam. We just want to keep getting better at it. Most surgeons have to be perfectionists to provide the best care. So being a perfectionist is really not a bad thing in medicine. That means you will do your utmost to provide the best care possible for your patient. Is that good for your mental health? Probably not the best thing to do. But as a patient, I would want to see a perfectionist doctor rather than someone who thinks enough is good. OP, if you think you can score higher, go re-take it. T20's are heavy on stats. It's just the way it is. I am on the Adcom of a t5. Every time, I see someone retaking a decent MCAT score say (515 to 518), and break 522. I look at it favorably. Even those who didn't improve that much. I still don't look at them unfavorably. It has nothing to do with judgment. It's all about your goal and how much work you are willing to put in. At the end of the day, it's really about the opportunity cost associated with retaking the exam. Tbh, nowadays 515 is really kind of low if you want to have a realistic shot at a t20.

This is why I'm saying *most* schools will look on it unfavorably. If you're the kind of person retaking a 515, you're the kind of person more likely to be bitter about having to "settle" for a school outside of the t20. Student evaluation is as much about *fit* as it is about *ability.* Retaking a 515 shows you might not be the best fit for a lot of schools, a person that will reluctantly put themselves through the motions at a mid-tier or lower school when another student might be thrilled at the opportunity to be there and truly thrive.

 

[Mad Jack]

I had a 513 MCAT, retook it after timing out, got same score 3 years later, had a sub 3.3 sGPA and got into a T5 school because of my clinical and research background. I was flat out rejected from multiple t20-T50 schools because of my GPA, but interviewed at several Ivys and UC schools because of my story. Tell a good story.

Retaking a score that timed out is fine, it isn't a red flag at all

 

[markandey]

Apparently many adcoms disagreed with me. I had few MD schools get excited about my work experience

Unless there's some fine print (like you worked for legal in a hospital so there was very little service orientation), shouldn't reviewers put two and two together as part of holistic admissions policies?

PS. I guess 10K apps make it difficult to spend enough time to review a non trad ~10 page app properly...?

 

[RI-premeder]

What about retaking a 514 or 513 or ….? Where’s the cutoff begin and the judging your motives end?

 

[i-doctor]

What about retaking a 514 or 513 or ….? Where’s the cutoff begin and the judging your motives end?

A) Since the average MCAT score of those accepted to Med School is 511 (or 511.x), i guess below that is one place to consider a re-take….or
B) Since something like only 38% of those applying get accepted, maybe consider a re-take if you fall below the top 62nd percentile… 506 or so?

I realize that median scores would be more valuable than average scores, but I don’t think they release data on that.

 

[Med Ed]

I don't understand why anyone trying to score better should be looked at unfavorably.... medicine is full of perfectionists. Most of my classmates are perfectionists. We get bogged down when we miss something while doing a physical exam. We just want to keep getting better at it. Most surgeons have to be perfectionists to provide the best care. So being a perfectionist is really not a bad thing in medicine. That means you will do your utmost to provide the best care possible for your patient. Is that good for your mental health? Probably not the best thing to do. But as a patient, I would want to see a perfectionist doctor rather than someone who thinks enough is good.

"Perfectionism" in this context is shorthand for something called "maladaptive perfectionism." Ultimately it's not a good thing for students or patients.