Respecialization from developmental to clinical psyc

[PsycDocGal]

Hello everyone!

I am hoping for some advice on respecialization programs. I am currently working as a government contractor for the past 7 years and my PhD is from R1 university in California. I worked very hard for my PhD and was happy to find a job in southern ca working and using my degree. However, I came to realize that research all day every day without any mental reprieve (I.e., this was previously provided to me via teaching or running subjects) is just not for me. Don’t get me wrong, I do like some aspects of research. Especially data analysis and the idea formation portion. However, I just feel something is missing and I miss using my skills in working with people in a “applied” way as I did with teaching or running subjects.

I am looking into respecializing in clinical at an APA accredited site however the options are super slim. I have two young kids and face some geographic limitations for a future internship (would likely need to stay in the so cal region for my husbands job and kids stability). Some of the schools that offer clinical psychology respecialization are not well respected schools (Fielding, Alliant) not to mention pricey and I worry about wasting time on this type of program only to be viewed as a poor job candidate. Is there anyone here who has respecialized and gained employment successfully? Am I a fool for even considering it?

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[niceman]

Someone I worked with did their respecialization after completing their PhD in developmental psych. It was in a reputable R1 university but no longer accepts students for respecialization, but they did manage to get trained at top training sites in the region. They decided to do private practice for the flexibility so they could take care of their family.

You may want to think about what kind of clinical work you want to do after getting a degree in clinical psych. As many members here will tell you, you may be better off getting a master-level degree (e.g., social work or mental health counseling) and becoming licensed that way to achieve the same goals.

 

[WisNeuro]

I know of exactly one person from Fielding who I would consider successful in their career. It's possible, but just unlikely.

 

[PsycDocGal]

Someone I worked with did their respecialization after completing their PhD in developmental psych. It was in a reputable R1 university but no longer accepts students for respecialization, but they did manage to get trained at top training sites in the region. They decided to do private practice for the flexibility so they could take care of their family.

You may want to think about what kind of clinical work you want to do after getting a degree in clinical psych. As many members here will tell you, you may be better off getting a master-level degree (e.g., social work or mental health counseling) and becoming licensed that way to achieve the same goals.

Thank you for your reply! This is what my old advisor recommended too (masters degree route).

 

[PsycDocGal]

I know of exactly one person from Fielding who I would consider successful in their career. It's possible, but just unlikely.

Thank you for the insight! Is this person a respecialization person or got their PhD at Fielding? I’m sure it doesn’t make a huge difference but just curious.

 

[summerbabe]

Some of the schools that offer clinical psychology respecialization are not well respected schools (Fielding, Alliant) not to mention pricey and I worry about wasting time on this type of program only to be viewed as a poor job candidate.

Not that I've ever specifically looked into this but I don't know of any reputable/funded programs that offer this path.

The only 2 reasons that I can think of to respecialize versus getting a clinical masters is to be able to continue to call yourself doctor without reservations or to be assessment focused, with the latter seeming like a much better reason.

Now, whether or not Alliant and Fielding will help somebody accomplish that goal is another question.

How long are these program proposing for study? And I assume you'd need to do an APA predoctoral internship where you'll be paid not much above minimum wage for a year?

And given how few people are probably respecializing each year, I wonder if these candidates may also struggle with securing an internship? I assume these folks will have less hours compared to traditional students. Or can be competitive but may need to be incredibly geographically flexible to do so, which doesn't sound realistic for your circumstances?

Anecdotally, I've run into both Fielding and Alliant grads in my VA career and the latter appear more competent. But I can't recall which Alliant campuses they came from.

 

[WisNeuro]

Thank you for the insight! Is this person a respecialization person or got their PhD at Fielding? I’m sure it doesn’t make a huge difference but just curious.

Respecialization, I believe.

 

[Mama Bear]

I believe the University of Hawaii has a respecialization program.

 

[PsyDr]

1) These programs are basically a relic of a time gone by. They used to be more common, but times and laws have changed. If you asked an 80 year old about how they bought a house, their advice might not be up to date.

2) Any job can get mundane. I would bet that most of the assessment psychologists here could do their job without administering a test. But they do it, because that is the job. I would also bet that many of the treating psychologists have noticed similarities in their patients' complaints. Therefore, it might be easier to meet your need for novelty through your personal life, or another job. If you're looking for applied whatever, it would seem silly to spend $150k, plus the loss of income during the 3 years of training, when that could be accomplished by teaching one evening course per semester, or getting another full time job, or learning how to sky dive.

 

[PsycDocGal]

Not that I've ever specifically looked into this but I don't know of any reputable/funded programs that offer this path.

The only 2 reasons that I can think of to respecialize versus getting a clinical masters is to be able to continue to call yourself doctor without reservations or to be assessment focused, with the latter seeming like a much better reason.

Now, whether or not Alliant and Fielding will help somebody accomplish that goal is another question.

How long are these program proposing for study? And I assume you'd need to do an APA predoctoral internship where you'll be paid not much above minimum wage for a year?

And given how few people are probably respecializing each year, I wonder if these candidates may also struggle with securing an internship? I assume these folks will have less hours compared to traditional students. Or can be competitive but may need to be incredibly geographically flexible to do so, which doesn't sound realistic for your circumstances?

Anecdotally, I've run into both Fielding and Alliant grads in my VA career and the latter appear more competent. But I can't recall which Alliant campuses they came from.

Thanks for your response, it helped me just to answer your questions.

Yes the programs that offer them are not very reputable which is my concern. It is pretty uncommon to respecialize so I am unsure how easy it is to get an APA internship (I have no sample to draw from), it seems to be they do the same amount of practicum hours as traditional clinical students and are making up the clinical classes required etc via the program. I asked one program that offers this track and they said they only had one student to do respecialization last year. They do require internship and yes these are not well paid. These programs are definitely not funded though I was funded for my PhD so I have no student debt. I kind of consider them like other professional degrees (like PsyD or MD) which tend to not be funded since the school is not “getting anything” from you. The programs tend to be 2 years of classes, practicum across the second and third year, then internship in fourth year. I believe you pay tuition for only the first two years and then some lower fee amount the next two years. I hope this answered your questions above.

Continuing to call myself doctor - I think I can do this whether I do the Masters or respecialization route so I am not worried about the clout of this. I guess I would spend a lot of time explaining that my PhD is not in clinical so that part does sound annoying. I like the flexibility, leadership/mentoring and higher pay that would come with the clinical PhD, but I think I could feel happy doing just applied work in counseling or therapy so I’m trying to think through this a bit more. I also studied under a clinical mentor while getting my PhD so I miss doing assessment type activities which were always interesting to me. I liked working with at risk kids and families and miss feeling like I’m making a difference for people so that is my main motivator. I’m sure similar to everyone else who picks this field.

Thanks for your anecdote on running into Fielding and Alliant folks. At least these people are getting jobs in the field so that’s good to hear. Hmm.

 

[PsycDocGal]

I believe the University of Hawaii has a respecialization program.

You know I don’t think they offer it this year! I wonder what’s going on there, it doesn’t seem like less and less programs are available

 

[PsycDocGal]

1) These programs are basically a relic of a time gone by. They used to be more common, but times and laws have changed. If you asked an 80 year old about how they bought a house, their advice might not be up to date.

2) Any job can get mundane. I would bet that most of the assessment psychologists here could do their job without administering a test. But they do it, because that is the job. I would also bet that many of the treating psychologists have noticed similarities in their patients' complaints. Therefore, it might be easier to meet your need for novelty through your personal life, or another job. If you're looking for applied whatever, it would seem silly to spend $150k, plus the loss of income during the 3 years of training, when that could be accomplished by teaching one evening course per semester, or getting another full time job, or learning how to sky dive.

1) thanks for this you are so right! I would really like to connect w someone who did this recently for this reason.

2) I would hope to continue at my job while doing the respecialization. The one good thing about my current job is it is very flexible, many people are remote or part time. Fielding for example is partly remote (in person for some things) which they call distributed. So I could still work and have an income. Part of this isn’t about money though I do need money to survive of course. The cost would be about 80k which is a ton of money but at least not 150k. A friend of mine did say perhaps I should get back into teaching instead so I am considering this too, that is a good suggestion. Skydiving is not on my list but I get what you’re saying here 😊 I know it’s hard to explain why I would want to do this as it is not super practical so I get the confusion. It’s more than novelty I guess but more like feeling as though I’m wasting my personal skills, that my particular strengths in life are not really in research? I am an ok researcher I think but peer review and constant writing is just killing me slowly (I guess you’d have to do an only research job to truly relate to this feeling but it’s like…slow? Mind numbing? Soul sucking? To just only slowly do this and nothing else). Add on government bureaucracy and it is very draining. I’ve been doing this 7 years now so I can tell you it’s not easy to find a new job after being in this world for so long. Like I have maybe pigeonholed myself into this Gov research world now. I know perhaps a job could come up that would be a better fit, so far it’s been difficult to get a different job in research (lots of pharma biotech near I am but not as interested in psyc researchers). Definitely an option to consider just really vying for a new job and making sure it’s got a little more balance somehow.

This has been difficult to think through since all of these options are somewhat difficult to pursue and have costs associated. Further, I guess it is revealing that I made an error in my training and should have gone clinical from the beginning. So it’s been a challenge to think through. I appreciate your reply it has definitely helped me!

 

[Sanman]

I have yet to hear the OP voice a reason for pursuing a clinical degree. Certainly, several reasons to leave this government job, but not any that are specific reasons as to why you should further education in a clinical area. I work as a clinical psychologist for the government and most of what you have said applies ro my job as well. As @PsyDr said, a lot of jobs get boring. Being in CA, have you thought about how to use your background more generally? Certainly, there are a number of research jobs at tech companies might be less repetitive and remove the peer review process and writing you dislike.

 

[PsycDocGal]

I have yet to hear the OP voice a reason for pursuing a clinical degree. Certainly, several reasons to leave this government job, but not any that are specific reasons as to why you should further education in a clinical area. I work as a clinical psychologist for the government and most of what you have said applies ro my job as well. As @PsyDr said, a lot of jobs get boring. Being in CA, have you thought about how to use your background more generally? Certainly, there are a number of research jobs at tech companies might be less repetitive and remove the peer review process and writing you dislike.

I did put it into my replies in the above two comments why I would like to do this! You may have missed it but I appreciate your comment.

It is not that easy to get into Tech I’m not sure why this is the impression out there. I’m a developmental psychologist so often they do not look at my application even though I am good with data this degree doesn’t make me a good candidate. Also tech is going through layoffs right now and I do not have a network there. What kinds of industries do you think would readily hire a developmental psychologist that may have more applied interaction with people, even if not licensed clinical work? When you say using more generally? I’m here for ideas and happy to be talked out of respecializing if you think there are better options.

 

[summerbabe]

I would hope to continue at my job while doing the respecialization. The one good thing about my current job is it is very flexible, many people are remote or part time.

Fielding offers the allure of having your cake and eating it too. Stay in your current job (maybe with a reduced workload, maybe not), stay in your current home, and move forward with your career.

But in order to prioritize those needs (which are legit), your education and clinical training will likely suffer since there's a reason why 99% of the field does not work via this model. Sure, the rest of the field is probably unnecessarily rigid in some ways but Fielding is a major departure.

I like the flexibility, leadership/mentoring and higher pay that would come with the clinical PhD, but I think I could feel happy doing just applied work in counseling or therapy so I’m trying to think through this a bit more.

If you're respecializing, I think you should be pretty close to 100% committed to a clinical career (and possibly one that includes assessment since a clinical master's is enough for therapy and also quicker and cheaper).

Because you can keep doing research, teach, move into the private sector, consult, lead, mentor, etc with your current degree. And I don't think adding Fielding/Alliant clinical PhD & predoctoral internship completion lines to your CV really enhances those non-clinical opportunities.

I guess you could use a clinical PhD to try to advance in healthcare administration but if you're currently not a fan of bureaucracy, that's probably a dead end. And you might also be very bad at this (e.g., competent individual but bad at organizational politicking) or hate it even more than your current job.

 

[PsyDr]

1) thanks for this you are so right! I would really like to connect w someone who did this recently for this reason.

2) I would hope to continue at my job while doing the respecialization. The one good thing about my current job is it is very flexible, many people are remote or part time. Fielding for example is partly remote (in person for some things) which they call distributed. So I could still work and have an income. Part of this isn’t about money though I do need money to survive of course. The cost would be about 80k which is a ton of money but at least not 150k. A friend of mine did say perhaps I should get back into teaching instead so I am considering this too, that is a good suggestion. Skydiving is not on my list but I get what you’re saying here 😊 I know it’s hard to explain why I would want to do this as it is not super practical so I get the confusion. It’s more than novelty I guess but more like feeling as though I’m wasting my personal skills, that my particular strengths in life are not really in research? I am an ok researcher I think but peer review and constant writing is just killing me slowly (I guess you’d have to do an only research job to truly relate to this feeling but it’s like…slow? Mind numbing? Soul sucking? To just only slowly do this and nothing else). Add on government bureaucracy and it is very draining. I’ve been doing this 7 years now so I can tell you it’s not easy to find a new job after being in this world for so long. Like I have maybe pigeonholed myself into this Gov research world now. I know perhaps a job could come up that would be a better fit, so far it’s been difficult to get a different job in research (lots of pharma biotech near I am but not as interested in psyc researchers). Definitely an option to consider just really vying for a new job and making sure it’s got a little more balance somehow.

This has been difficult to think through since all of these options are somewhat difficult to pursue and have costs associated. Further, I guess it is revealing that I made an error in my training and should have gone clinical from the beginning. So it’s been a challenge to think through. I appreciate your reply it has definitely helped me!

Correct me if I’m wrong, but you’d still have to complete 2 part time practica (~20hrs/wk), complete one full time internship, and one full time post doc. I don’t know how that would be accomplished with a full time job.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but you’d still have to complete 2 part time practica (~20hrs/wk), complete one full time internship, and one full time post doc. I don’t know how that would be accomplished with a full time job.

 

[PsycDocGal]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but you’d still have to complete 2 part time practica (~20hrs/wk), complete one full time internship, and one full time post doc. I don’t know how that would be accomplished with a full time job.

Thanks for your reply. I can go part time doing research and I mainly work from home so I am not thinking I would be doing two full time jobs. I would not continue at my job during the internship portion. But I am aware of these parts of this process! It would just help a little bit in the beginning to have some extra income. My husband also works so I’m not the only breadwinner for my family.

This post was mainly to see if I could talk to someone who has respecialized and whether they get jobs after doing so. Not so much on the logistics of doing this as I haven’t even decided if I will!

 

[PsycDocGal]

Fielding offers the allure of having your cake and eating it too. Stay in your current job (maybe with a reduced workload, maybe not), stay in your current home, and move forward with your career.

But in order to prioritize those needs (which are legit), your education and clinical training will likely suffer since there's a reason why 99% of the field does not work via this model. Sure, the rest of the field is probably unnecessarily rigid in some ways but Fielding is a major departure.

If you're respecializing, I think you should be pretty close to 100% committed to a clinical career (and possibly one that includes assessment since a clinical master's is enough for therapy and also quicker and cheaper).

Because you can keep doing research, teach, move into the private sector, consult, lead, mentor, etc with your current degree. And I don't think adding Fielding/Alliant clinical PhD & predoctoral internship completion lines to your CV really enhances those non-clinical opportunities.

I guess you could use a clinical PhD to try to advance in healthcare administration but if you're currently not a fan of bureaucracy, that's probably a dead end. And you might also be very bad at this (e.g., competent individual but bad at organizational politicking) or hate it even more than your current job.

Thanks for your reply! Appreciate it. Yes I do not understand people that like bureaucracy. I know they do exist since I work with them daily now. I’ll keep considering new career tracks while I think this through.