Resident couple - not going so well...

[Snappleapple13]

I am a PGY-1 and my bf is a prelim in gen surg. He is currently in the process of applying for ortho a 2nd time since he did not match the first time. It was my understanding from last year’s experience that he would apply for a backup specialty this time, but now he says that he is willing to go unmatched again and reapply for ortho a third time if he has to. I am trying to be supportive of his decision, but the truth is, he wasn’t the strongest applicant the first time around and I really don’t feel that reapplying over and over again will help.

We have been dating for almost 4 yrs now and all of this is starting to put a real strain on our relationship. He is not comfortable with committing to this relationship (ie marriage) until he knows exactly what his future plans are, even though that may be years from now. Furthermore, he is willing to move anywhere in the country to do ortho even if it means leaving me behind. Transferring to another residency program is not an option for me. I exhausted myself last year by interviewing at 20 programs (including at locations I really did not want to be) so that couples matching could be an option for us. Since he didn’t match into his specialty, all that didn’t matter and I ended up matching at my first choice. I am very happy at this program and really would not want to interrupt my training here to move to a less desirable program at another location.

I am really frustrated with the situation right now and I just don’t see an end in sight. If it were up to me, I would love to be married by the end of 2nd yr or beginning of 3rd yr and start thinking about a family early in my practice. But now none of that seems possible. Especially since there will very likely be years of long distance involved. Furthermore, he wants to do a fellowship after residency so I will likely have to put my own desire to establish a practice on hold while I follow him around from place to place until he finishes his training.

Obviously I care about this person or else I wouldn’t even consider putting so many of my goals on hold for him. He states that he cares about this relationship too, but I am starting to feel like I am the only one making all of the sacrifices. Last year he told me that he would reapply one more time. Now it might be two times. And then who knows, maybe a third or fourth. Putting our future on hold for so many years just kills me. I’m trying to be supportive, but my patience is running thin. I tried talking to him about this, but he just gets angry and tells me that I am being unsupportive. I’m not sure what else to do.

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[sailence]

I think you should sit down and talk with him and let him know how you feel. and try to get him to see the way he is acting towards your relationship.

good luck.

 

[elwademd]

I think you should sit down and talk with him and let him know how you feel. and try to get him to see the way he is acting towards your relationship.

good luck.

and after that conversation, don't be afraid to break up with him.

he's willing to go wherever he needs to go to do ortho without regards for you...

also, it's been 4 years and you both are in residency... and he needs things in his career first before figuring out if he needs to be with you permanently (marriage)...


someone can be a good person and a good partner... but not the right one for you.

 

[Sweenracer]

It is obvious that the career comes before you...

And that his career comes before yours...

I say, let him do what he wants... but don't sacrifice your career to follow him. Stand up. What about what you want?

 

[Pekoe]

1. We have been dating for almost 4 yrs now and all of this is starting to put a real strain on our relationship. He is not comfortable with committing until he knows exactly what his future plans are, even though that may be years from now.
2. Furthermore, he is willing to move anywhere in the country to do ortho even if it means leaving me behind. Transferring to another residency program is not an option for me.
   
3. I ended up matching at my first choice.

Let me start with #3. You two are unequally matched. Med students are like Olympic swimmers. #1 doesn't need an ego. #1 is proven. However, a #20 who really really really wanted the gold (or a #3 for that matter) and who hasn't gotten over it will feel resentment, even though there is a slight difference in ability to create the ranking. Go for another gold medal winner. Marry your equal. Men can marry "down" but women cannot not because of how women are but because of how most men are. It sounds like he will always be a beta male proving himself and that just never works out.

For the second point, you are a bus station to him. If he gets something better professionally that will allow him to live up to his dreams of who he sees himself as being, he will move on. Send him packing. I can tell that you love him, but this guy is a disaster waiting to happen. This is the kind of guy who'd leave you in a heartbeat if he met someone who was younger or prettier or who turned his crank faster than you. Commitment isn't his forte. He has to be the one to want you. Let him pursue you if you actually want him, but you could have your heart broken by better men. Drop him, tell him you have made up your mind and you don't want marriage or any thing right now. If he doesn't come back to you we here will support you-- and if he does maybe he will make himself better for your sake.

On your first point, see #2.

 

[Neuronix]

I agree with the other posters. If this guy isn't going to commit to you after all that, he probably never will unless its convenient for him. When is it going to be convenient for him? After your residency? After his? Are you willing to wait that long? Is he going to dump you before that point (good chance).

If he really cared about marriage and commitment, he would swallow the fact that he was not a good enough med student and switch into PM&R or surgery or something else ortho related that isn't as competitive so he can be with you. If he moves away, which is very likely, from the sounds of your post, your relationship will probably end anyways. I say nip it in the bud now and start looking for someone. There's plenty of fish in the sea, as they say.

 

[Pekoe]

There's plenty of fish in the sea, as they say.

I like the fish analogy, but a friend of mine many years ago compared men to black shoes. A woman needs a good pair of black shoes but she can't just settle on any pair. We need to try a few on before we settle with The One Pair. . . do you agree?

 

[Sweenracer]

I like the fish analogy, but a friend of mine many years ago compared men to black shoes. A woman needs a good pair of black shoes but she can't just settle on any pair. We need to try a few on before we settle with The One Pair. . . do you agree?

Comparing men to women's shoes is just wrong. If you are anything like MY wife with shoes... let's just say you would be dating A LOT of men... closetsfull... sometimes two or three different ones a night...

I would stay away from any women trying on men like they do shoes!

 

[Neuronix]

We need to try a few on before we settle with The One Pair. . . do you agree?

Well since you asked... In my experience, with most women I've met it comes down to the movie I saw with a date last night, 2 Days in Paris. The movie makes possibly the most right on statements I've seen about relationships. Don't go see it with a date

Essentially,
Women go through phases. They start out all young and starry eyed, play around, fool around. When serious things come around, they typically find some flaw in the guy and get rid of them. They play the single thing for awhile, find a tremendous amount of emptiness and sadness after awhile, play around, fool around again, find another guy who is wrong and get rid of them too. Eventually they hit a certain age and something else happens. Either their good looks hit the age wall or the baby clock tells them its time, and even though "the guy wakes you up every morning not with a kiss, but by sneezing in your face, you still come to love those sneezes more than a kiss" and you learn to accept that the loser you're dating is your loser.

Prince charming doesn't exist. It just takes most women a long time to realize it. Societal norms and rampant low self-esteem keep women from picking a guy who's actually intelligent, stable, and smart and instead try to meet some guy randomly and latch onto him while knowing nothing about him. If the woman knows the guy too well and knows he's decent, he's probably on the friends ladder anyways.

Nobody ever asks--why should I meet some guy/girl in a bar or at a party? So what if she's a good lay. Is this a girl I really want to be in a long-term relationship with? You don't find these sorts of things out until you've been with them awhile. No wonder relationships go through cycles... Nobody wants to be up front and honest about what they want to begin with. It's not going to change because the "meet by chance and have some romance" method is the preferred way to meet someone in our society (my dad was the local drinking champion) and if anyone is paying attention to societal norms, it's women.

My message, which everyone ignores is, HOT GIRL: PUT DOWN THE GIRLIE MAG. THIS IS NOT THE MANUAL FOR HOW TO LIVE YOUR LIFE.

If there's anything that makes no sense to me, it's male-female relationships. But then again every woman is different too. What I'm saying only applies for what seems to me like the majority. Some girls do grow up and come to believe some or most of what I'm saying. But for most, it's once they've already hit a looks wall (or weren't nice looking to begin with), have some random kids, or really want to have kids that it finally happens. The ones that are cute, less than my age, have some sense of what they want in a guy, and are directly looking for that are so rare that it's like hitting the jackpot to find one. Meanwhile, since most girls aren't thinking rationally to begin with about relationships, they don't think rationally about most things in life and become a real PITA to actually go out with.

So to directly answer your question, it's good to try out men like shoes. I think you should try to make some sense if what kind of shoes you like first. Make sure you think about whether you want to wear that shoe every day or whether it's going to give you blisters every time you put it on, whether the heel is going to break in 3 tries, etc. Because shoes, like relationships, can be costly both on the front and back ends (i.e. now I have to walk around with a broken shoe!). Don't just buy the pair of shoes in the window on impluse because they're cute or on sale or you were drunk.

 

[Pekoe]

Because shoes, like relationships, can be costly both on the front and back ends (i.e. now I have to walk around with a broken shoe!). Don't just buy the pair of shoes in the window on impluse because they're cute or on sale or you were drunk.

OK, bad analogy on my part, but I like how you elucidated on it!

I now proclaim you Neuornix the Wise!

I just love these smilies.

 

[Catalystik]

It seems you are aware that this is not the guy for you. It's pretty clear to the rest of us, too, from the information you've given. If you need to cement your understanding, see a couples counselor, with or without your partner. Possible resources include a psychologist, master of clinical social work, or a clergy person (free). Good Luck.

 

[Hard24Get]

It is obvious that the career comes before you...

And that his career comes before yours...

I say, let him do what he wants... but don't sacrifice your career to follow him. Stand up. What about what you want?

I think it is a general wisdom that you should not give up too much for someone else in case it doesn't work out or isn't worth it in the end. Should he give up his dreams to be an ortho surgeon for you and would he be happy if he did? The same goes for you, although your ultimate medical specialty isn't in jeopardy. He could easily come on this forum and be told that you are an unsupportive b*** and he should dump you rather than his future. When people are trying to build a career and a relationship at the same time, there are bound to be problems and the solutions are not straightforward.

I don't think you should necessarily listen to people telling you to dump your SO or that he doesn't care on an anonymous forum, either, as only you understand the value of your relationship and the love between you both.

 

[Habibti]

To navigate this problem, you have to know what you're willing to accept and what he is willing to give. It's about what you're willing to compromise for him and what you expect to be compromised for you. Is what he's willing to give good enough for you?

With regard to his choice of specialty, the question is not merely ‘Will he be happy not living out his dream?' but ‘Would you be happy if he couldn't live his dream? Can you be happy knowing that you made him choose between his dream and you?' I can tell you that I would be absolutely unhappy if my significant other didn't get to live his dream and I'm willing to put my dreams on hold (temporarily) so he can live his. I will undoubtedly follow him wherever his residency takes him and after that, we'll make plans that suit both of us. Everyone plays the game differently and you need to either a. find a way to make the game work for both of you or b. get out.

 

[Saluda]

.

 

[Saluda]

It seems to me that you care for this guy- after all, you are thinking about marriage and a family with him and you have already spent 4 years together. Any relationship is going to require sacrifice to work. From my experience, 2 doctors in the marriage equals twice the sacrifice- and not just during training.

This is a very anxiety-laden year for you both- filled with uncertainty.

You are both interns, but one of you has a secure position for next year, and one of you does not. Now that you have your secure position, you are thinking about marriage and family. He is not there yet, nor should he be. In his mind he does not have a job past June.

How awful it must be for him to have to go back through this awful process and face potential rejection and humiliation again. He has had to go through the mental process of figuring out if he wants to risk it again to be an orthopod. In order to face the programs and PDs, he has had to psych himself up again, and he is doing what is natural- he is casting a wide net, hoping he won't fail again.

It is sooooooooooooooooooooo early in the application season, and so far from the February rank list. If I were you and I had any interest at all in this relationship, I would be supportive. Fake it if you must. Otherwise you may be seen as a threat to his career and he may freak out just as you are trying to do. (Intern couples do a lot of freaking out.)

You have your dream residency, and he wants his dream, too. If you are patient, this all could work out. You will be getting more information as to the logistics as interview season unfolds, but again it is too early to freak out.

Is your dream to talk him into giving up his dream of being an orthopod, settle for another field, and then marry you... all on your timing?

All the dual physician couples I know have had to make sacrifices and compromises somewhere along the way. I have had to take a couple of years off to move with my husband. (versus being apart and continuing with school and training.) We have also spent 4 years hundreds of miles apart, so I have seen both types of sacrifice. None of it was easy, but he is wonderful and I would do it again to be with the dummy.

Either one of us could have found a more portable spouse. Eight years into our marriage, we are still very very happy with each other. For the right person, the sacrifice is worth it.

Time will tell. Be patient and support each other in the meantime if you want to give it a chance. Good luck!

 

[34140]

I have a question for you....if he God willing did get an ortho residency...but one was near where you work and one was where he really wanted to go...which one would he choose? if you think he would choose the one where you work...dont dump the guy...work on the relationship...but if you honestly believe he will choose wherever he wants to go, then you may have to reevealuate your relationship.

Think of how he feels, his gf got her #1, he cant even match! And now, her career is more important than his career and hes bound to stay where ever she goes. A man always needs his ego stroked one way or another. Be patient. Be kind, think of him also.

 

[mtDNA]

I am a PGY-1 and my bf is a prelim in gen surg. He is currently in the process of applying for ortho a 2nd time since he did not match the first time. It was my understanding from last year’s experience that he would apply for a backup specialty this time, but now he says that he is willing to go unmatched again and reapply for ortho a third time if he has to. I am trying to be supportive of his decision, but the truth is, he wasn’t the strongest applicant the first time around and I really don’t feel that reapplying over and over again will help.

We have been dating for almost 4 yrs now and all of this is starting to put a real strain on our relationship. He is not comfortable with committing to this relationship (ie marriage) until he knows exactly what his future plans are, even though that may be years from now. Furthermore, he is willing to move anywhere in the country to do ortho even if it means leaving me behind. Transferring to another residency program is not an option for me. I exhausted myself last year by interviewing at 20 programs (including at locations I really did not want to be) so that couples matching could be an option for us. Since he didn’t match into his specialty, all that didn’t matter and I ended up matching at my first choice. I am very happy at this program and really would not want to interrupt my training here to move to a less desirable program at another location.

I am really frustrated with the situation right now and I just don’t see an end in sight. If it were up to me, I would love to be married by the end of 2nd yr or beginning of 3rd yr and start thinking about a family early in my practice. But now none of that seems possible. Especially since there will very likely be years of long distance involved. Furthermore, he wants to do a fellowship after residency so I will likely have to put my own desire to establish a practice on hold while I follow him around from place to place until he finishes his training.

Obviously I care about this person or else I wouldn’t even consider putting so many of my goals on hold for him. He states that he cares about this relationship too, but I am starting to feel like I am the only one making all of the sacrifices. Last year he told me that he would reapply one more time. Now it might be two times. And then who knows, maybe a third or fourth. Putting our future on hold for so many years just kills me. I’m trying to be supportive, but my patience is running thin. I tried talking to him about this, but he just gets angry and tells me that I am being unsupportive. I’m not sure what else to do.

May I ask what specialty you are in? I think this matters because most men long for a woman who will admire and look up to them. If you are in something that is very prestigious, he is not going be happy with anything less than ortho. If you are not in a highly prestigius specialty, then you should probably try to talk him out of his pursuit, since you really feel he is not going to match. Sometimes people need a reality check. This is a tough one.