Residency?

[Taliesinrk]

I definitely agree that many of the top-ranked PM&R programs have limitations--every program does. I think they key is finding the program that is the right fit for you. At least that's what I looked for--where do I feel I'll get the training I want, in the friendly atmosphere I want, and ideally, geographically where I want.

Of course. I guess in my rambling, what I was trying to say is that after interviews the general theme was that the programs people raved about here were at the bottom of my list and the programs that didn't have info here or were considered low/middle/average programs are the ones I thought were great. But as an MS3/4 trying to figure out where to start (as I didn't have a ton of info from my school), this was my only source. From reading stuff on here, I had no idea there were so many other "good" ( and IMO, maybe better) programs out there. I hope if other future applicants read this, they keep that in mind

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[RangerBob]

You're not alone in that belief--I ran into so many people who didn't like the "top programs" and were ranking them highly mostly because of the name. The general theme was longer hours, more malignant, less happy residents. Mayo was the only top program I didn't hear anyone say bad things about (other than location, but I thought Rochester was really nice). Mayo was the only "top tier" interview I went on, so I can't personally speak about the others first-hand.

The less talked about programs that really impressed me:

VCU
MCW
UNC
Loyola
UMN


There are lots of places I didn't interview, so anyone please feel free to add to the list.

 

[Taliesinrk]

Agree 100% about Mayo! I would add the following:

Toledo
Kansas
Missouri
Indiana

 

[Polynikes]

Yet again no one mentions Emory as one of the better programs.

 

[Taliesinrk]

Actually I've heard Emory mentioned here a lot. He was noting programs people don't usually talk about on here

 

[Prof Moriarty]

Toledo
Kansas
Missouri
Indiana

Would be great to see some interview/program reviews on these and others. SDN remains the best source of info for this and it's true we rarely/never hear about many of these.

 

[MedBronc23]

MedBronc, I have 0 issues with DOs. I think they are pretty much the same thing as MDs in my opinion, and realistically don't see major differences, but there is an inevitable bias against them. Maybe not in PMR but in general. Reason why they are not counted, per NRMP, as AMGs. I have no issues going to a program that has a ton of DOs personally.
IMGs, particularly non-US IMGs, are a different yes and I think it's silly to not admit this.

I personally made no comparison between Rads and PMR, as they are different skills and expectations, etc. in those residencies/fields. Derm is a neutral specialty with a similar # of spots that is highly competitive, reason why it was stated that it's silly to suggest that PMR is so incredibly competitive. Even in something like derm btw, people get spots out of the match all the time. My goal is not to argue here, I'm sure you are all good people with good intentions.

It's just frustrating that instead of actual helpful advice, all people can say is "PMR is getting more competitive." That's very unhelpful. When students have asked me regarding going into Rads for example, I have given them specifics - do this, do that, etc. andI don't say oh Rads is hard to match into and it's a competitive specialty.

You know recently when I spoke with a buddy who recently matched into PMR and I suggested that I wanted to go into it and was concerned regarding competitiveness, they laughed at me literally. Even as one of the attendings with the Garfield drinking coffee avatar has said, "got a pulse? then you can get a PMR residency." This is him, not me saying that. Gutonc, the Heme/onc attending has stated that PMR makes FM look like integrated plastics. Again - these are their comments. So it's frustrating that when I come to the PMR forum to ask for advice, I get all these comments about how PMR is now derm. It's unhelpful, and I'm sure many of you could provide excellent advice otherwise.

I don't think it's derm, plastics, or ortho at its current state. It's probably getting to be par with rads and gas. I mentor quite a few medical students via AAPMR and SDN. I can just tell you when I compare them to me,when I was applying, they typically have more research, multiple degrees and more experiences in PMR or other related fields, and their board scores are going way up on average.

I mean when I applied in 2010 with a 240+ step 1 score, programs I interviewed at took notice that it was above the norm. But I only had one pmr poster and my undergrad psych major research. I rotated at my top three programs outside my medical school but that was rare as well.

Now doing multiple rotations, 240 plus step scores, PM&R related research and publications, and going after PM&R earlier in med school and not stumbling on it in 3rd or 4th year like many people do are getting to be more commonplace

We still are a young field and finding our place.

However the secret is out. A field where focus is on patient centered care, function and QOL, decent hours lifestyle and pay, and opportunities for a variety of practice and subspeciality opportunities that overlap with desired aspects of other fields (Neuro (sci, tbi, stroke,EMG) ortho (MSK sports), rads( US), and medicine. What's not to like and attract more smart, savvy medical students.

I just do not see a ceiling for a field focusing on these things and given the increasing cost of healthcare, and our aging population. PM&R fits very well with the changing landscape of American healthcare IMHO and will continue to be utilized more and more.

PS to OP stay positive. PMR likes nice happy folks typically Just accept that competitive is in the eye of the beholder. However, a pulse is still required to match anywhere last time I checked ;$

 

[JuliusErving]

Carolinas hasn't gotten many mentions this year. I've heard Jackson in Miami is a good program as well, but I don't know much about it.

 

[Taliesinrk]

H

 

[Taliesinrk]

Would be great to see some interview/program reviews on these and others. SDN remains the best source of info for this and it's true we rarely/never hear about many of these.

Yeah sorry - I've been putting it off for a while. Will try to do that tomorrow

 

[Taliesinrk]

I don't think it's derm, plastics, or ortho at its current state. It's probably getting to be par with rads and gas. I mentor quite a few medical students via AAPMR and SDN. I can just tell you when I compare them to me,when I was applying, they typically have more research, multiple degrees and more experiences in PMR or other related fields, and their board scores are going way up on average.

I mean when I applied in 2010 with a 240+ step 1 score, programs I interviewed at took notice that it was above the norm. But I only had one pmr poster and my undergrad psych major research. I rotated at my top three programs outside my medical school but that was rare as well.

Now doing multiple rotations, 250 plus step scores, PM&R related research and publications, and going after PM&R earlier in med school and not stumbling on it in 3rd or 4th year like many people do are getting to be standard.

We still are a young field and finding our place.

However the secret is out. A field where focus is on patient centered care, function and QOL, decent hours lifestyle and pay, and opportunities for a variety of practice and subspeciality opportunities that overlap with desired aspects of other fields (Neuro (sci, tbi, stroke,EMG) ortho (MSK sports), rads( US), and medicine. What's not to like and attract more smart, savvy medical students.

I just do not see a ceiling for a field focusing on these things and given the increasing cost of healthcare, and our aging population. PM&R fits very well with the changing landscape of American healthcare IMHO and will continue to be utilized more and more.

PS stay positive. PMR likes nice happy folks typically Just accept that competitive is in the eye of the beholder. However, a pulse is still required to match last time I checked ;$

Like Rads or gas and 250+ is"Getting to be the norm"? This is ridiculous.

 

[ballerz]

I don't think it's derm, plastics, or ortho at its current state. It's probably getting to be par with rads and gas. I mentor quite a few medical students via AAPMR and SDN. I can just tell you when I compare them to me,when I was applying, they typically have more research, multiple degrees and more experiences in PMR or other related fields, and their board scores are going way up on average.

I mean when I applied in 2010 with a 240+ step 1 score, programs I interviewed at took notice that it was above the norm. But I only had one pmr poster and my undergrad psych major research. I rotated at my top three programs outside my medical school but that was rare as well.

Now doing multiple rotations, 250 plus step scores, PM&R related research and publications, and going after PM&R earlier in med school and not stumbling on it in 3rd or 4th year like many people do are getting to be standard.

We still are a young field and finding our place.

However the secret is out. A field where focus is on patient centered care, function and QOL, decent hours lifestyle and pay, and opportunities for a variety of practice and subspeciality opportunities that overlap with desired aspects of other fields (Neuro (sci, tbi, stroke,EMG) ortho (MSK sports), rads( US), and medicine. What's not to like and attract more smart, savvy medical students.

I just do not see a ceiling for a field focusing on these things and given the increasing cost of healthcare, and our aging population. PM&R fits very well with the changing landscape of American healthcare IMHO and will continue to be utilized more and more.

PS stay positive. PMR likes nice happy folks typically Just accept that competitive is in the eye of the beholder. However, a pulse is still required to match last time I checked ;$

I do not post much on here but as a student starting to go through the application process, researching programs, assessing my competitiveness etc. I would like to comment on this. I do agree PM&R is on the up and up. Its a great field that will continue to get more and more bright and hard working students, but it simply is not on par with gas or rads competition wise. I have to disagree that 250+ boards and stuff like that are becoming "standard". If you look at charting outcomes from 2011 only 16 matched US seniors scored 241 or above on step 1, that is a far cry from the norm. Although this data was from 2 cycles ago I highly doubt the amount has went up enough to consider it standard. I guess we shall see when the new charting outcomes data is published this year.

 

[IamnotFreud]

I do not post much on here but as a student starting to go through the application process, researching programs, assessing my competitiveness etc. I would like to comment on this. I do agree PM&R is on the up and up. Its a great field that will continue to get more and more bright and hard working students, but it simply is not on par with gas or rads competition wise. I have to disagree that 250+ boards and stuff like that are becoming "standard". If you look at charting outcomes from 2011 only 16 matched US seniors scored 241 or above on step 1, that is a far cry from the norm. Although this data was from 2 cycles ago I highly doubt the amount has went up enough to consider it standard. I guess we shall see when the new charting outcomes data is published this year.

Agreed.

 

[Taliesinrk]

Agreed. As I mentioned before, I like MedBronc and think he's a great advocate for the specialty but it goes overboard big time. 250+, multiple rotations, etc are not even the norm for gas and rads which pay currently far more than PMR. Heck, even rad onc, derm and ortho don't have a "mean" or "standard" of 250 in the least. I have spoken to a number of people who have matched at PMR programs without a single rotation or letter in PMR, and if you look at the charting outcomes PMR still had very low step scores. Also, I don't understand the whole statement about "stumbling into PMR 3rd or 4th year." I don't know how anyone could do rotations before 3rd year since 1st and 2nd years are courses not rotations, and even 3rd year, rotations are core ones for the most part, so I find that a bit inconsistent with reality. I think maybe MedBronc is a great candidate in PMR and he may have discovered it early but by statistics, what he is saying is simply wrong. While it's great to be an advocate, going overboard is not helpful imo.

Well put

 

[MedBronc23]

Agreed. As I mentioned before, I like MedBronc and think he's a great advocate for the specialty but it goes overboard big time. 250+, multiple rotations, etc are not even the norm for gas and rads which pay currently far more than PMR. Heck, even rad onc, derm and ortho don't have a "mean" or "standard" of 250 in the least. I have spoken to a number of people who have matched at PMR programs without a single rotation or letter in PMR, and if you look at the charting outcomes PMR still had very low step scores. Also, I don't understand the whole statement about "stumbling into PMR 3rd or 4th year." I don't know how anyone could do rotations before 3rd year since 1st and 2nd years are courses not rotations, and even 3rd year, rotations are core ones for the most part, so I find that a bit inconsistent with reality. I think maybe MedBronc is a great candidate in PMR and he may have discovered it early but by statistics, what he is saying is simply wrong. While it's great to be an advocate, going overboard is not helpful imo.

It might just be my sampling, and all I commented on was what I see as a peer mentor via our national academy. I also am at what some consider one of the more sought after residencies in PM&R (whether that means anything or not) I agree the numbers overall looking at charting outcomes show overall stable trend..again you are basing competition on numbers game solely.

There's much more that goes in, and I'm just noting what I have seen in our applicants and people who I come in contact with. They are just overall better than when I interviewed 4 years ago

You are also wrong on that many people dont or can't get rotations in 1st and 2nd year...the RIC summer externship program is a prime example of what's out there.

Again this is all conjecture and opinion

 

[Paddington]

Alright people need to stop with the mental ******ation. It's making our whole field look bad.

1) No question that PM&R is more competitive than it used to be, just a few years ago. Just talk to PD's at average programs. They're not desperate to fill with warm bodies (drop outs from other fields, folks who had never even done a PM&R rotation before, etc.) like they were in the past. For us old timers (who aren't even that old), the changes have been pretty remarkable.

2) PM&R is more competitive than the just the numbers make it out to be. On General Residency Issues, they advise struggling applicants, often FMGs to try for IM, FM, Psych, and PM&R. That's really bad advice. PM&R is a lot more competitive than its low board scores, and low number of US MD's going into it make it out to be.

3) OTOH, people need to stop with the bull**** comparing PM&R to Rad-Onc, Dermatology, and the like. PM&R is an order of magnitude less competitive than those fields.

 

[MedBronc23]

I think I'm out on this particular forum. There's alot that goes into residency and fellowship application. Numbers don't lie but as we all know stats are all in how you manipulate the data and what information you sample.

I may be an idealist thinking the types of applicants we are attracting are getting better, but apparently this is not reflected in the NRMP data. I do know there was only one unmatched PM&R spot and to me that shows the field is doing better as a whole (regardless of who fills the spots).

Truth is future applicants will have to continue getting good letters, showing sincere interest in PM&R, have competitive board scores compared to applicant cohort for speciality (albeit scores will never be end all be all because PM&R PDs typically care about the whole person in PM&R), and research will continue not to hurt (I think PM&R specific research in applicants will be more of a norm than exception).

I see a bright future, but the reality is PM&R probably most on par with IM with the kicker of only 70 plus programs which is a limiting factor if interest in field continues to pick up.

 

[MedBronc23]

I'm an IMG. I got a total of 20 PM&R interviews and I only applied to 25. I got interviews at the Mayo, RIC, UCLA, Wash U and Kessler, etc. So I would say that I am a pretty competitive applicant. I know of many AMGs that didnt even get these interviews. Does that make me better than an AMG? I think so. Oh, and I matched at my #1 ranked program.

I think youre really bitter that you made a poor life decision when you did, but dont hate on us IMGs because we are where you want to be. And you prob wont get a spot in PM&R besides for Arkansas so enjoy radiology!

Ok I guess I'm not out. I agree with everything Iampmr said above.

I think IamnotFreud (the OP) came into this forum looking for help, but also us to tell them it would be easy to switch to PM&R without likely having to go through the match again. We gave opinions, albeit differing, and the OP didn't like some of them. The OP already has made it known that they have a pretty high opinion of themselves and their credentials, but honestly I hope they consider staying away from clinical work and PM&R given the responses i have seen on here from them. We have plenty of nice smart people coming into our field, and we do not need rotten apples.

The OP made the wrong residency choice and is undoubtedly, understandably upset. Truth is there are just not as many PM&R spots to switch into outside the match. People stay in PM&R for all the reasons I have mentioned previously that it attracts folks in first place.

Lastly I typically love all the RADs people I interact with at our institution and my friends who are Rads fellows and residents at my program and from medical school. Great people wicked smart and surprisingly nice and great with patients.

They would never come into a forum and act this way, especially if considering a person centered communal field like Physiatry. Has the OP considered pathology? The OP might just not be a people person, which won't be tolerated in PM&R no matter how good you are on paper.

Now I am out.

 

[IamnotFreud]

Ok I guess I'm not out. I agree with everything Iampmr said above.

I think IamnotFreud (the OP) came into this forum looking for help, but also us to tell them it would be easy to switch to PM&R without likely having to go through the match again. We gave opinions, albeit differing, and the OP didn't like some of them. The OP already has made it known that they have a pretty high opinion of themselves and their credentials, but honestly I hope they consider staying away from clinical work and PM&R given the responses i have seen on here from them. We have plenty of nice smart people coming into our field, and we do not need rotten apples.

The OP made the wrong residency choice and is undoubtedly, understandably upset. Truth is there are just not as many PM&R spots to switch into outside the match. People stay in PM&R for all the reasons I have mentioned previously that it attracts folks in first place.

Lastly I typically love all the RADs people I interact with at our institution and my friends who are Rads fellows and residents at my program and from medical school. Great people wicked smart and surprisingly nice and great with patients.

They would never come into a forum and act this way, especially if considering a person centered communal field like Physiatry. Has the OP considered pathology? The OP might just not be a people person, which won't be tolerated in PM&R no matter how good you are on paper.

Now I am out.

While I respect you, I have said absolutely nothing wrong, and the person you are quoting is absolutely deranged, so I would stay clear from that. I am more of a people person than most people out there, and have more personal experience dealing with disease than most residents ever personally have to do with. Switching fields is very common, and going on the band wagon of someone deranged like the person you just quoted is not a good thing. If you look at this thread, you will see most people side with me. I'm simply stating facts. I don't go overboard on things, I state facts. Telling people that PMR is as competitive as rads, gas, derm, rad onc, etc is just plain silly. You will see most people on here disagree with that. And if you like nice, smart people you certainly shouldn't side with people who seem absolutely deranged and who attacks others (the person who's post you quoted). Trying to make your field look like something is not is a disservice to everyone.

And given the various people I know who have switched into decent PMR programs, without having to go through the match I think is a testament to the fact that it can be done. Just because I don't agree with you does not make me a bad person. The reality is that you need to learn to be an advocate for your field while at the same time being realistic. You do yourself and others interested in the field a disservice otherwise.

You insulting me is out of line. The rotten apples that you speak of are the 2 insanely rude and unprofessional, attacking IMGs who have been reported due to unprofessional conduct. And bashing a specialty like you are doing rads is also unprofessional dude. I didn't make a "bad choice," and there is nothing to be upset about. That's just plain ridiculous and it does not put you in a good light. I'm not going to go into the rads vs. PMR comparison but I dare say that most people who I've told, including PDs, have told them that I should stick with rads. So you stating that it's a bad choice is absolutely ridiculous. People have different experiences, and sometimes feel like they want to make changes. If anything you should applaud me. PMR is not a very desired specialty in general and few top students go into it, so comparing to rads which is a very competitive specialty is just plain ridiculous. I want to switch into the specialty not because it's somehow prestigious or competitive but because of life changing events that have happened in my life.

And why would you even bring up pathology? It's insulting to me, to pathologists, to my peers, etc. Did I ever say I wanted to be a pathologist? It's absolutely ridiculous.

YOU are upset because me and others are suggesting that you are making ridiculous statements about the competitiveness of a field, and instead of providing helpful suggestions, you continue to make absurd statements like the norm for PMR is 250 with research and multiple rotations. Seriously? Be an advocate for the field, but don't make up stuff, it doesn't help anyone. How do you think it would help anyone if I told people that you derm and rad onc or ortho is not competitive and you just need to pass? I would be misleading people.

As I said above, I do think you are probably a great candidate and I'm sure you are a good person, but it's honestly not just rude but very hurtful that you would speak about someone that you don't know like this. Do you even have any understanding of why I would even consider leaving one of the most high paying, competitive specialties out there for PMR? Clearly I have some serious reasons for this dont you think?

 

[RehabSports]

A lot of emotionally charged comments on here for no good reason. There is no need to be upset over the opinions of others who have no effect on your particular circumstance, either positively or negatively.

The obvious consensus is that PM&R is a great field to be in, we all agree in this regard. Advocates for the field have mentioned that it is becoming more competitive now than in the past, and one individual (the OP) is downplaying its competitiveness perhaps due to personal reasons (i.e. her desire to switch into PM&R from Rads) and hearing that the switch may be difficult without electives or LORs in PM&R has possibly rubbed her the wrong way.

The personal attacks are unnecessary and do nothing to strengthen one's position in an argument or refute another's opposing position.

One thing I have noticed is that people like to qualify themselves on here by stating how great they are, how personable they are etc. It has been my experience that having to state such things is not nearly as effective as demonstrating these traits time and time again. Moreover, it is not the members on here that you have to impress, it is the PDs of the program(s) you are interested in.

Best of luck to the OP in securing a PM&R spot, let us know where you end up.

 

[IamnotFreud]

.

 

[RehabSports]

One individual? Again t his is absurd. Just about everyone on here if you read the thread agrees that the suggestion that this field is super competitive is asinine. And if you had read what I wrote, you would realize that I am currently doing stuff IN PMR so I WILL not only have letters, rotation, AND research in PMR, in addition to very unique personal experiences. And again, I know of the limited # of people that I know in PMR, 6 which had absolutely NOTHING in PMR and matched at very respectable programs so excuse me for not believing you have to be AOA, with a 260 step 1, multiple publications, 10 rotations, and countless letters to match PMR. As a number of the posters have pointed out, this hypersensitivity that some people have trying to make the field seem hyper competitive makes the field look bad. Refer even to a few posts back and Paddington among others agrees. It's just plain absurd.

I appreciate the helpful and thoughtful comments many of you have made, and will leave it at that. Personal insults and nastiness is not cool at all.

That's great! So there is no need for you to be so defensive about whether or not you will find a spot in PM&R. It looks like you may be very successful in making the switch. What I don't understand is your desire to have the last word whenever someone makes a comment on this thread.

In any case, my intention is not to argue with you. Good luck!

 

[IamnotFreud]

.

 

[RehabSports]

What is with you and some others on here? I never ever said that I will not find a spot in PMR. When did I say that? I have 0 concern about that, it's simply a matter of TIME - whether I find a spot in the next few months, at a program that's open, or whether do I go through a year of rads and match into something else. Why are you commenting on a thread you clearly have not read in entirety?
I matched in rads dude, of course I can match in PMR. Any AMG can match in PMR.

What I don't understand is the need to make up stuff because of insecurities and hypersensitivity about the lack of competitiveness of the specialty. is it because as some programs have told me, the field is used as a backup and others tried to match into something else and couldn't? I just don't get it. I have complete understanding that I'm going from a more competitive and higher paid specialty to a less competitive and less paid one. I have no problem with that, and have no problem with saying that. Some of you simply, maybe out of insecurity, want to portray the specialty as the next derm. That makes as Paddington said, the field look bad. Don't tell people that are interested in the field things that are just plain false.

Calm down. No one is arguing with you.

 

[IamnotFreud]

Calm down. No one is arguing with you.

Well I'm off to enjoy my weekend.

 

[RehabSports]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/mj-laughing.gif

 

[ED50]

It feels to me like people are arguing two things. 1. PM and R is not as competitive are rads or derm. I think everyone on here agrees with that. If you don't there is an absolute mountain of data to suggest otherwise. 2. PM and R is getting more competitive. This is coming more from the people in the field and one I tend to agree with however, overall trend of the mean USMLE (one measurement of competitiveness) is fairly stagnant. Please note, 1 and 2 can occur at the same time And the final, perhaps most important idea 3. PM and R is a fantastic area of medicine we are all either part of or hoping to be part of soon.

 

[mulberry]

"I matched in rads dude, of course I can match in PMR. Any AMG can match in PMR."

How the OP says he/she is a people's person? good grief.

Also, OP, why must you continue to bring up salary? Is that why you went into medicine?

 

[Ochempwnsme]

how the op says he/she is a people's person? Good grief.

Well look. I already told you: I deal with the god damn customers so the engineers don't have to. I have people skills; I am good at dealing with people. Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?

 

[Eilat87]

Well look. I already told you: I deal with the god damn customers so the engineers don't have to. I have people skills; I am good at dealing with people. Can't you understand that? What the hell is wrong with you people?

Had to look that cultural reference up.

 

[Ochempwnsme]

Had to look that cultural reference up.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGS2tKQhdhY[/YOUTUBE]

 

[MedBronc23]

While I respect you, I have said absolutely nothing wrong, and the person you are quoting is absolutely deranged, so I would stay clear from that. I am more of a people person than most people out there, and have more personal experience dealing with disease than most residents ever personally have to do with. Switching fields is very common, and going on the band wagon of someone deranged like the person you just quoted is not a good thing. If you look at this thread, you will see most people side with me. I'm simply stating facts. I don't go overboard on things, I state facts. Telling people that PMR is as competitive as rads, gas, derm, rad onc, etc is just plain silly. You will see most people on here disagree with that. And if you like nice, smart people you certainly shouldn't side with people who seem absolutely deranged and who attacks others (the person who's post you quoted). Trying to make your field look like something is not is a disservice to everyone.

And given the various people I know who have switched into decent PMR programs, without having to go through the match I think is a testament to the fact that it can be done. Just because I don't agree with you does not make me a bad person. The reality is that you need to learn to be an advocate for your field while at the same time being realistic. You do yourself and others interested in the field a disservice otherwise.

You insulting me is out of line. The rotten apples that you speak of are the 2 insanely rude and unprofessional, attacking IMGs who have been reported due to unprofessional conduct. And bashing a specialty like you are doing rads is also unprofessional dude. I didn't make a "bad choice," and there is nothing to be upset about. That's just plain ridiculous and it does not put you in a good light. I'm not going to go into the rads vs. PMR comparison but I dare say that most people who I've told, including PDs, have told them that I should stick with rads. So you stating that it's a bad choice is absolutely ridiculous. People have different experiences, and sometimes feel like they want to make changes. If anything you should applaud me. PMR is not a very desired specialty in general and few top students go into it, so comparing to rads which is a very competitive specialty is just plain ridiculous. I want to switch into the specialty not because it's somehow prestigious or competitive but because of life changing events that have happened in my life.

And why would you even bring up pathology? It's insulting to me, to pathologists, to my peers, etc. Did I ever say I wanted to be a pathologist? It's absolutely ridiculous.

YOU are upset because me and others are suggesting that you are making ridiculous statements about the competitiveness of a field, and instead of providing helpful suggestions, you continue to make absurd statements like the norm for PMR is 250 with research and multiple rotations. Seriously? Be an advocate for the field, but don't make up stuff, it doesn't help anyone. How do you think it would help anyone if I told people that you derm and rad onc or ortho is not competitive and you just need to pass? I would be misleading people.

As I said above, I do think you are probably a great candidate and I'm sure you are a good person, but it's honestly not just rude but very hurtful that you would speak about someone that you don't know like this. Do you even have any understanding of why I would even consider leaving one of the most high paying, competitive specialties out there for PMR? Clearly I have some serious reasons for this dont you think?

FYI I was not saying Radiology is a bad choice in general. Its a great choice for some of the brightest people in medicine, and many of my friends and respected colleagues at my institution and from med school.

I was inferring that it is obviously a bad choice for you, given that you want to switch. I also would have to disagree that any AMG can match into PM&R.

You have cited a lot of stats and numbers, but the truth is you are in here arguing with upper level PM&R residents, fellows, staff who know much more than you about PM&R, our culture, and our values and have seen much more of the application process than you.

I am not trying to be rude to you, as I am sure you will find a spot outside or via the match next year if you are as good as you say you are. However, I stand by my opinion that you do not seem to fit the mold of a person I would want as my colleague or in my program.

That is unless you find some humility during the switch and realize some of your facts are how you interpret the numbers, your opinions, or the opinions of those you say you have spoken with in PM&R. I never said my opinion was fact or gospel, but merely commented on observation and shared my opinion.

I realize that people in PM&R disagree with some of my opinions, and have voiced them on this forum. That is ok. To clarify, I never said 250 board scores and multi rotations are the norm everywhere , but I have seen this in some of my programs applicants and heard reported from those interested in some of the more well known programs.
Our applicant pool just seemed to be getting better and better especially this year.

We will see what the trend is once stats come out for charting outcomes in their full form. But you need to realize scores, stats, and these information you hang your hat on are only part of the picture.