Residency

[PodunkUDPM]

I know it's been a while Dr Feli, but when you listed Jewish in your list, did you mean Jewish in Cincinnati or Jewish in Kentucky?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Feli]

I know it's been a while Dr Feli, but when you listed Jewish in your list, did you mean Jewish in Cincinnati or Jewish in Kentucky?

I'm almost positive that Kentucky, Dr. Ford's program, is the significantly stronger training program you would want, but PM footdoc for details...

http://www.casprcrip.org/html/casprcrip/pdf/Dir_Pgs/0628.pdf

 

[Foot Doc]

I'm almost positive that Kentucky, Dr. Ford's program, is the significantly stronger training program you would want, but PM footdoc for details...

http://www.casprcrip.org/html/casprc...r_Pgs/0628.pdf




thanks.....any questions, just ask

 

[whiskers]

A good residency is one that doesn't work you like a btch constantly for the gain of the ones profiting.

Sorry, but everyone will learn the same podiatry in the end and will end up doing what they like to do.

Basically being a pod btch will never end if you don't set boundries eventually!

Residency is a good place to say, no more users and abusers.

Imagine it, you could end up being used and abused in the name of podiatry fame if you are not careful.

So many are clawing for pod fame, but so few attain it.

Good luck! Fortunately there are like a million useless leadership positions in the field.

Doing ankles, bunions etc is not rocket science fortunately!

 

[ldsrmdude]

Bumping this thread from the dead for 2 reasons:
1. This is a good thread and there hasn't been a good discussion about the top residencies in a while. I want to see what everyones opinion is on the topic since we have quite a few new folks here who are coming up through school. And things have changed in the 3 or 4 years since this thread was active and I think opinions of what programs are "best" has changed to some degree.
2. I linked this thread in the sticky at the top of the forum and want to remind everyone to check out the sticky for some other good threads and links.

So what do you think? What are the "top residencies/clerkships"?

 

[g squared 23]

I've heard only great things from the Wheaton Milwaukee program. Its been a sleeper, but I keep hearing it compared to the big guns out there and it seems like it matches up favorably in every category except history and name recognition, which is starting to seem less and less important with the standardization to a 3 year program. If it's not already considered one of the country's best, it soon will as their numbers alone are staggering.

 

[Creflo]

This topic for me has been the single most important, yet most difficult to obtain information about. As a podiatry student, I called several programs to obtain information before setting up my fourth year. I also researched the student podiatry publication about residencies, sdn, and asked upperclassmen. I did this while trying to maintain a good GPA in podiatry school, so most of my time was devoted to classroom work instead. I ended up rotating in programs during the fourth year that I may not have chosen had I been more informed. For this reason I think we should either develop a website or a section here on sdn devoted to giving realistic information about our individual residency programs. At the same time, I believe that many residents are biased when giving information about their program. They want to make it look good because they are a resident there. They aren't going to readily tell the shortcomings of the program they matched into. All of this said, I think spending a month at a program is more than sufficient to learn about it. The key is picking the right programs to extern to begin with.

 

[pacpod]

I've heard only great things from the Wheaton Milwaukee program.

I've heard many good things about this program as well. Really, only good things.
Another program that sounds like it is picking up is Ohio State's in Columbus. At least here it has been overshadowed by Grant's program in Columbus but I've heard from some 4th years here that have clerked there that really liked it.

This topic for me has been the single most important, yet most difficult to obtain information about. As a podiatry student, I called several programs to obtain information before setting up my fourth year. I also researched the student podiatry publication about residencies, sdn, and asked upperclassmen. I did this while trying to maintain a good GPA in podiatry school, so most of my time was devoted to classroom work instead. I ended up rotating in programs during the fourth year that I may not have chosen had I been more informed. For this reason I think we should either develop a website or a section here on sdn devoted to giving realistic information about our individual residency programs. At the same time, I believe that many residents are biased when giving information about their program. They want to make it look good because they are a resident there. They aren't going to readily tell the shortcomings of the program they matched into. All of this said, I think spending a month at a program is more than sufficient to learn about it. The key is picking the right programs to extern to begin with.

Are you thinking about a resource like this one that Barry has put together?

 

[air bud]

I have plenty to add on this subject, but honestly I am going to wait until after boards and interviews - interviews specifically. Let me just start with this - I have been to plenty of "big name" programs, and I think many of them are dinosaurs. Look how many current graduates are entering Ortho groups or multispecialty groups. I believe the future of residency programs is trending towards University type settings. Being under the department of orthopaedics has many advantages and yes, disadvantages. However, I have spoken with a handful of MD's involved in hiring podiatrists. The reoccuring theme is this: they care about known MD's trained under as well as numbers. The diploma signed by the president of University of Louisville/Pitt/etc carries much more weight than one signed by the director at "Smalltown Community Hospital." Letters of Rec carry more weight when signed by a Roy Sanders trained traumatologist or somebody who trained at Harborview or Rubin institute. This is what you get in University settings.
I know many on here will disagree with me, that is fine. I am just offering my perspective. I realize right now there is a paucity of University programs. They are most often only available to top students. The reason is because the directors are much more selective. If they are going to be able to hold their standing within the university, then they are only going to pick students who can excel in the year 1 off service rotations when side by side with MD's/DO's. They are going to feel more confident selecting "top" students.
I will have more feelings based on personal experiences and fellow students experiences in the coming weeks. I will see lots of my classmates at interviews and try and get some current feedback on the "top" programs everybody here on SDN talks about: INOVA, UPMC, West Penn, Grant, Swedish, Wheaton, DMC, Orlando, Dekalb, JPS, Kaiser SF, PSL, Regions, etc..... I have been to or have multiple friends who have been to these programs.
Moral of the story - grades matter - a lot. Yes, performing well at the clerkship matters, as does humility, teachability, etc. But there will be multiple students like that for 2 spots. Then grades matter again.

 

[air bud]

Wheaton has incredible numbers, residents graduate with around 2500 cases. They have first years doing ankle fractures and scopes, 2nd years doing flatfoot recons and IM nails, 3rd years doing TAR and everything else. 7 of last 8 residents went into ortho groups. Both directors work in an ortho group. They train under multiple private practice MD's who are incredibly busy and well known. Moral of the story - I would put Wheaton against any program in the country in terms of surgical skill and training.

 

[PADPM]

There are a lot of excellent "sleeper" programs, similarly there are a lot of excellent attendings who fly under the radar. Many of these DPMs are excellent, great teachers and busy, but are not well known. If you're not politically involved or on the lecture circuit, it's difficult to be well known. Many of these docs choose to fly under the radar and are happy. There are many excellent residency programs that have a similar scenario.

I am involved with training residents at a well known, well respected program that traditionally takes top students. The residents are personable, bright, etc., but I (and my partners) often find it mind boggling that they can put in an IM nail, perform major reconstructive procedures, but can butcher a simple arthroplasty. I've often witnessed that their intricate dissection skills are either lacking, or they move as slow as a snail. Maybe it's because many of the "major" procedures involve larger structures???

Regardless, my point remains that there are many lesser known programs such as Wheaton that can easily compete with the big boys.

And in my opinion, the stats of how many grads land ortho jobs is not necessarily an indication of anything unless that is your primary goal.

 

[ManUnderFire]

some great tips here

anyone have some experience rotating in NY or MI? From JonWill's posts, it seems DMC is trauma heavy

 

[g squared 23]

And in my opinion, the stats of how many grads land ortho jobs is not necessarily an indication of anything unless that is your primary goal.

I 100% agree with you. Many podiatry students think getting an ortho job is the absolute best position a graduating resident can land, not really understanding either the finances or logistics behind any of these contracts. I won't start a debate as this is not the point of this thread, but I hope that students do a little more research than just if program graduates get an ortho job and what is their starting salary.

 

[air bud]

some great tips here

anyone have some experience rotating in NY or MI? From JonWill's posts, it seems DMC is trauma heavy

Keep in mind that as a general rule, "Trauma heavy" also implies "I & D and amp heavy." this is what you get at county hospitals.

I went to a program that has huge trauma numbers, but also huge I & D's. Elective type procedures were performed, but in much less volume than more traditional outpatient type surgical center based residencies

 

[air bud]

I 100% agree with you. Many podiatry students think getting an ortho job is the absolute best position a graduating resident can land, not really understanding either the finances or logistics behind any of these contracts. I won't start a debate as this is not the point of this thread, but I hope that students do a little more research than just if program graduates get an ortho job and what is their starting salary.

I agree.

 

[ldsrmdude]

some great tips here

anyone have some experience rotating in NY or MI? From JonWill's posts, it seems DMC is trauma heavy

I can comment on some of the MI programs. Let me first just say that each program has its own unique attitude, not just in MI, but in general. We've had students who did not fit in at all at our program and we would never consider ranking them in our top 10, but were told they were another programs top choice. The programs in MI are no different, and it's hard to describe attitudes online. It's really something that you have to see to understand. With that out of the way, I can comment on some of the "tangibles" at a few of the programs.

DMC is known for being trauma-heavy, but their elective numbers are very impressive as well. Take jonwill as an example and read through the "true stories from podiatric residency" thread in the residents/physicians forum and you will see what I mean. It would still have to be one of the top residencies as far as I am concerned.

Oakwood has been one of the big name programs around for a while. Dr. Fallat is well-known and well-respected. There is a new program this year, Oakwood Southshore, that is an offshoot of the Oakwood Annapolis program, and when I visited there, no one was very sure how that would affect things. It will lead to less surgery at for the main program, but I don't know if they will be adding other attendings or taking less residents to make up for it. Oakwood gets a good share of trauma and big cases. They do tend to double/triple scrub the big cases however. They do publish and it seems like their research is pretty structured and help is provided along the way.

I don't know that I could add anything to what Feli has said about St. Johns since I have never been there.

I would say that those are the big name programs in the Detroit area. I've heard good things about Providence and Genesys, especially while they were both directed by Dr. Kanat. They both sound like very well-balanced programs.

2 of the newer programs that I have been hearing good things about are St. Mary Mercy and Henry Ford Macomb. I would say the Henry Ford Macomb program is the more well-known of the two since it has been around longer, but from all I have heard, the St. Mary Mercy program is set up to be another solid program as well. I would say those two are "sleeper programs."

Feel free to PM for more info if you want.

 

[ldsrmdude]

I have plenty to add on this subject, but honestly I am going to wait until after boards and interviews - interviews specifically. Let me just start with this - I have been to plenty of "big name" programs, and I think many of them are dinosaurs.

I look forward to what you have to add having just been through the process of clerkships/interviews

One of the specific reasons I wanted to bump this thread is because I completely agree that some of the "big name" programs out there aren't as good as they either used to be or people believe them to be. Unfortunately, sometimes you don't find things like that out until you spend a month there.

 

[air bud]

Let me rephrase - I have been to "some" big name programs

 

[Shinobiz11]

I can comment on some of the MI programs. Let me first just say that each program has its own unique attitude, not just in MI, but in general. We've had students who did not fit in at all at our program and we would never consider ranking them in our top 10, but were told they were another programs top choice. The programs in MI are no different, and it's hard to describe attitudes online. It's really something that you have to see to understand. With that out of the way, I can comment on some of the "tangibles" at a few of the programs.

DMC is known for being trauma-heavy, but their elective numbers are very impressive as well. Take jonwill as an example and read through the "true stories from podiatric residency" thread in the residents/physicians forum and you will see what I mean. It would still have to be one of the top residencies as far as I am concerned.

Oakwood has been one of the big name programs around for a while. Dr. Fallat is well-known and well-respected. There is a new program this year, Oakwood Southshore, that is an offshoot of the Oakwood Annapolis program, and when I visited there, no one was very sure how that would affect things. It will lead to less surgery at for the main program, but I don't know if they will be adding other attendings or taking less residents to make up for it. Oakwood gets a good share of trauma and big cases. They do tend to double/triple scrub the big cases however. They do publish and it seems like their research is pretty structured and help is provided along the way.

I don't know that I could add anything to what Feli has said about St. Johns since I have never been there.

I would say that those are the big name programs in the Detroit area. I've heard good things about Providence and Genesys, especially while they were both directed by Dr. Kanat. They both sound like very well-balanced programs.

2 of the newer programs that I have been hearing good things about are St. Mary Mercy and Henry Ford Macomb. I would say the Henry Ford Macomb program is the more well-known of the two since it has been around longer, but from all I have heard, the St. Mary Mercy program is set up to be another solid program as well. I would say those two are "sleeper programs."

Feel free to PM for more info if you want.

Feli is an attending at Genesys now. He could probably answer some questions. From what I've observed it's a pretty well-balanced, relaxed, program. The attendings are all mad cool too.

 

[dyk343]

Is there any difference in training based on geography? Is the east coast different from the west coast in terms of standard of care? How about the Midwest?

 

[air bud]

Is there any difference in training based on geography? Is the east coast different from the west coast in terms of standard of care? How about the Midwest?

From what I can tell West Coast programs seem to be much more biomechanically focused as most of the attendings went to the California school (the OG one), where a lot of that stuff originated from. I have spent most of my time east of the Rockies and there was less outright biomechanics talk. One time I said "biomechanically speaking" to a director and he looked at me and told me to shut up and start over and not use those words -- he did this while smiling and laughing keep in mind.

One of the ways that you will evaluate programs is where the attendings went, as this has a mostly direct effect on their approach to surgery. I went to one big name program that boasted of a huge number of attendings. They advertise this as a very diverse training in style. Turns out that 80 percent of the surgeries are done by 7-10 attendings who all trained at the same place and basically do things the same way. I went to another big name program that had less attendings, but they went to places like West Penn, Swedish, UPMC and others. Each brought a different approach. I liked this much more.

I guess I am trying to say I would look more at where attendings trained than where they practice in order to get a feel for the program.

 

[dyk343]

Interesting. Thanks.

 

[ldsrmdude]

Is there any difference in training based on geography? Is the east coast different from the west coast in terms of standard of care? How about the Midwest?

I think you'll find that procedure selection can vary based on where a person trained. Take a bunion for example. If you have a patient with a bunion, have a podiatrist who trained in California and one who trained in Michigan choose a procedure for it, there is a good chance they'll choose different procedures. It seems most bunions here in Michigan with mild-moderate IM angle increase get an Austin and an Akin. I don't think I saw anyone do an Akin at any of the other areas of the country that I went to. That's just an common example.

Like air bud said, if you can find out where attendings trained, diversity in attendings training can be a factor to consider. Some programs tend to "inbreed." That's one thing that turned me off about Dekalb Medical Center. It seemed like almost all of the attendings were PI trained guys and the ones that weren't didn't seem to be as involved. It came off as a bit dogmatic actually. I learned a lot during my month as a student there, but it wasn't what I was looking for in a residency.

 

[dyk343]

Thanks. The only reason I asked was because someone told me the west coast is more likely to fuse a joint while the east coast is more likely to take the implant or arthroplasty route.

The source wasn't overly credible.

 

[g squared 23]

Thanks. The only reason I asked was because someone told me the west coast is more likely to fuse a joint while the east coast is more likely to take the implant or arthroplasty route.

The source wasn't overly credible.

This is very program dependant. We'll fuse any joint when indicated.

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

I'm doing the inevitable bump of this thread, and hoping some eager/knowledgeable 3rd/4th year will update Feli's list from 5 years ago. A lot of people have given general ideas on what a good residency looks like, but no one has really amended this list in quite some time. Seeings that 3rd years should have these programs fresh on their minds, I was hoping we could get a new updated list going. (Thanks Feli!)


Northeast
Inova-Fairfax
Cambridge
Beth Isreal Deaconess
DVA - Yale
UMDNJ
UPMC
West Penn
Penn - Presby
Temple
Drexel

Southeast
Orlando
UF Shands
DeKalb (formerly Northlake)
JFK
Westside Reg Med Cntr
South Miami
Palmetto

Midwest
Forest Park
Grant
Jewish
StVincent Charity
CCF
OhioSt Univ
Regions
Gundersen Lutheran
Wheaton Franciscan
Detroit Med Cntr
Oakwood Annapolis
StJohn Hosp Med Cntr
Henry Ford - Macomb
Genesys


Northwest
Presby - StLukes
Swedish
Legacy

South/Southwest
DVA - Phoenix
Scripps
Any Kaiser Calif one, esp SF Bay Area
Scott and White
West Houston
UTHC - SA

Quick question of mine: Is a program "worthless" if it isn't RRA? The reason I'm asking is because Inova has been regarded as a really good program historically, but they do not have the RRA certification... perhaps my ignorance is showing through here...

 

[ldsrmdude]

I'm doing the inevitable bump of this thread, and hoping some eager/knowledgeable 3rd/4th year will update Feli's list from 5 years ago. A lot of people have given general ideas on what a good residency looks like, but no one has really amended this list in quite some time. Seeings that 3rd years should have these programs fresh on their minds, I was hoping we could get a new updated list going. (Thanks Feli!)


Northeast
Inova-Fairfax
Cambridge
Beth Isreal Deaconess
DVA - Yale
UMDNJ
UPMC
West Penn
Penn - Presby
Temple
Drexel

Southeast
Orlando
UF Shands
DeKalb (formerly Northlake)
JFK
Westside Reg Med Cntr
South Miami
Palmetto

Midwest
Forest Park
Grant
Jewish
StVincent Charity
CCF
OhioSt Univ
Regions
Gundersen Lutheran
Wheaton Franciscan
Detroit Med Cntr
Oakwood Annapolis
StJohn Hosp Med Cntr
Henry Ford - Macomb
Genesys


Northwest
Presby - StLukes
Swedish
Legacy

South/Southwest
DVA - Phoenix
Scripps
Any Kaiser Calif one, esp SF Bay Area
Scott and White
West Houston
UTHC - SA

Quick question of mine: Is a program "worthless" if it isn't RRA? The reason I'm asking is because Inova has been regarded as a really good program historically, but they do not have the RRA certification... perhaps my ignorance is showing through here...

My guess is that it's a typo because I would be very surprised if INOVA was not RRA. I never visited, but from what I hear it's a good program that maybe is taking too many residents now and the experience is a bit watered down from what it was.

In terms of RRA, I think it's good to have that option so you can be board certified in it. If you don't plan on doing rearfoot cases, it may not make a big difference, but still I personally would not want a non-RRA program. To each their own, but I want to be RRA board certified.

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

My guess is that it's a typo because I would be very surprised if INOVA was not RRA. I never visited, but from what I hear it's a good program that maybe is taking too many residents now and the experience is a bit watered down from what it was.

In terms of RRA, I think it's good to have that option so you can be board certified in it. If you don't plan on doing rearfoot cases, it may not make a big difference, but still I personally would not want a non-RRA program. To each their own, but I want to be RRA board certified.

I just get my info from the CASPR directory (http://www.casprcrip.org/html/casprcrip/directory.asp), so who knows.

I appreciate the insight, though!

 

[hematosis]

Just my opinion. I would take out shands. from the list. East Orlando is probably the best program in Fl. The mercy program is up there but they only take Barry students. Palmetto is solid too. up and comming programs in souteast are aventura and jackson north.

For cali programs i'd say long beach memorial is solid. i was underwhelmed with kaiser sf bay area. I felt the programs were not well balanced are not at the level of east coast programs. The best trainings are at UPMC, Dekalb, Inova, East Orlando, Palmetto, Swedish and paul stones residency program in Denver is killer good. The residents and attending at these programs are like computers.

 

[ldsrmdude]

Looking back over the list, there are a few programs I could comment on.

I've voiced my opinion on DeKalb several times. I think it's a good program with some neat things, but I think there are a lot of programs with a similar level of training that doesn't come with some of the baggage. I think it's fair to say that not everyone (most?) would not be comfortable in the DeKalb environment.

DVA Phoenix is not a program that I was too impressed with. It's like many VA's in that it relies on students to see most of the patients and do most of the treatment. There's not a whole lot of surgery at the VA itself. They do work with some good attendings in the area where I think they get most of their surgical numbers. I've seen good attendings as well as mediocre ones come out of the program, but I can't think of any "big name" that's come out of the program. Not that that really means much by the way.

In the end, "best training" is subjective but there are programs that are consistently listed as some of the better ones. I think the list Feli posted that Max quoted is a good start.

 

[JR2011]

Please don't rely on SDN to find the right Residency. Do your own research and pick where to rotate based on you top choices. If you want a top surgical residency, there are many not even listed (I'd argue some of the very best in country aren't even listed). You can't designate a residency based on a website. Residencies are EXTREMELY dynamic. What once was, is most likely a "has been" after this thread was first started. Please do your own research and don't rely on here for your answers. Refer to classmates that are trustworthy or take it upon yourself to ask questions and seek answers from direct sources.

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

Please don't rely on SDN to find the right Residency. Do your own research and pick where to rotate based on you top choices. If you want a top surgical residency, there are many not even listed (I'd argue some of the very best in country aren't even listed). You can't designate a residency based on a website. Residencies are EXTREMELY dynamic. What once was, is most likely a "has been" after this thread was first started. Please do your own research and don't rely on here for your answers. Refer to classmates that are trustworthy or take it upon yourself to ask questions and seek answers from direct sources.

Okay, I don't want to derail this thread, because it's actually one of the best threads SDN has (IMO), but... I am doing my own research by asking SDN? Obviously I can't email every single residency director, and the upperclassmen's paradigm of an "excellent program" is probably based on this list to some extent anyways (when you google, "best podiatry residency," what pops up?). I can't email every program director, and using SDN as a good "starting point" for program research can't be a bad idea. If no one talks about elite programs, how do we know they exist? Upperclassmen only know what a good program is based on either direct observation, (which reminds me: third years pick programs to clerk at in october, and the 4th years they should be consulting have only a few of their rotations done, and good luck finding a fourth year on your campus - and because they're so dynamic, will the previous years graduate's knowledge even be accurate?), or finding resources online.

This list clearly has some excellent programs on it, and it is an outstanding place to at least START to look for residencies. If you would just use your knowledge to update the list, you would be helping students nationwide. If you are suggesting SDN users are liars, and we can't trust the list, I think there are enough users online to amend your inaccuracies (hey, wikipedia turned out pretty great...).

 

[JR2011]

My best advice would be to look up nationally top surgeons from ACFAS, ie those prominent lecturers and those producing studies/ literature. See what types of studies they are doing. If they are lecturing on Diabetic wounds with wound gel and doing studies on it, that tells you something about the program. If its trauma or advanced orthopedic reconstruction, that tells you something. If you frequently read our own literature, you will recognize names. You should be familiar with the people that are large on the lecture series for ACFAS. See what programs they are associated with and investigate further based on what you find. I can tell you for a fact that several top residencies are not on that list and many of the ones on there, most today who are not podiatry students but attendings/ residents certainly wouldn't consider "TOP". I'd also encourage you to ask about orthopedic influence at programs, working relationship, etc. Some of the programs listed have very poor relationships with Orthopedics and this is very unfortunate and will have large influence on potential training from scope, to ER call, to types of cases you will even scrub. This is info you wont find on SDN podiatry.

But yes, I would say trying to contact all the programs that sound interesting is a much better place to start than a list of residencies from 2008 on a website that less than 1% of the profession contributes to. Just because one residency requires you to be top in your class, and is associated with an Ivy league name, doesn't mean you will be competent in much of any reconstructive surgery after graduation. But its your education and future. I'm just saying its really not smart to rely heavily on a website thread for your potential residency. Just dropping my two cents after having gone through all of this.

 

[darazon]

When I was a student I found this list extremely helpful. There are many programs out there and I had no clue where to start looking. It was a great starting point. It does need to be updated though.

I would second the opinion to drop UF Shands. I almost clerked there until I heard a few disaster stories from a current resident. Basically there is not enough surgeries to go around and the 3rd years fight over bunions.

Also, unfortunately, UTHC - SA has gone downhill since the absence of Harkless. All the other TX programs talk about how bad it's doing.

I'm not too sure DVA - Yale deserves to be on the list either. Not that it's bad, just not as good as the other names on that list. But you can say you did your residency at Yale, which would be impressive to people outside of podiatry.

I would add St Mary Mercy in Livonia, MI. Recently started by a graduate of DMC. I've heard nothing but great things about it.

Also add MedStar Washington Hospital Center now with Dr Steinberg at the helm.

As others have said Long Beach in SoCal. Unfortunately, the residency director is not involved much which leads it to be very resident driven.

I think JPS in Ft Worth should be there also. Tons of surgery and trauma.

I'm sure there are many more.

 

[janV88]

DMC - Already been mentioned numerous times. Lots of trauma but no one ever talks about their elective numbers. Very well rounded program. Dr. Husain is awesome...very approachable and a fantastic teacher.

Jewish in KY - Already mentioned. University setting. Well integrated with the ortho trauma team (there's always a pod resident with the ortho trauma team led by Dr. Seligson who has an ortho trauma fellowship).

Norton in KY - A few attendings from the original Kentucky residency program stayed at Norton when Dr. Ford took the program to Jewish. Definitely a sleeper program. They get their rear foot numbers in their first year. Very rarely double scrub. I believe they cover 5 hospitals total, 2 of which are children's hospitals. Consistently have 10-20 inpatients at a time. Podiatry attendings take trauma.

I was very impressed with these 3 programs during clerkships. All are high volume and very hands on. I listed them in no particular order.

Something for the underclassmen to keep in mind - just because a program is mentioned as a "top program" does not mean it is the program for you. I believe that each student has to assess where they fit in and the type of environment where they will flourish. The above programs I mentioned are completely resident run. No hand holding. Once July rolls around the incoming 1st years are pretty much on their own. Yes there is always a senior resident you can call and everyone works as a team...but you don't want to be known as THAT resident... These are excellent programs for the self motivated student/resident.

 

[dtrack22]

Carilion is run by a JPS grad I believe and subsequently has a similar training philosophy which is a lot of resident autonomy with the attendings being more of a resource than an active daily teacher/lecturer. I've only heard good things about the program in Virginia but did not visit myself.

Franciscan in Federal Way should be on any west coast list. Another program with a lot of autonomy and high surgical volume. Plus Hutchinson is a great teacher in the OR. This isn't to say both programs don't offer great training but I'd bet a lot of money that amongst students who rotated at both, more of them end up ranking Franciscan ahead of Swedish.

Every program has a deficiency. It's impossible to do "a lot" of everything in 3 years. Add in atmosphere and personality considerations (attendings and residents), as well as academics, location, salary/benefits....every place you extern will have at least one thing you don't like. Chances are there will be a couple. You have to figure out what's most important to you and hope the programs who like you offer it.

If you aren't sure what you want i'd recommend checking out some "extremes" (ie Dekalb on one end of the spectrum, DMC on the other) and then go to a place like Legacy which was the most well rounded program I was exposed to (or any balanced program that offers a little bit of everything and has different training styles based on the attending you're with). After that you will have a good idea of what you like the most. Then, if you're likeable and work hard, you can pick the training that suits you.

The "list" in this thread is a good starting point. There are some notable omissions and some programs on there that now a days would make some folks chuckle if you told them it was a "top" program. I'd talk to students in the class directly above you and make sure you ask what exactly they liked or didn't like. Some people want to assist first and have attendings show them how to do everything. That person would hate JPS. You really have to understand what someone else is looking for in a program before you can evaluate and apply their experience to your own selection process.

 

[janV88]

Anklebreaker hit the nail on the head. This is especially true of resident run programs. The residents run the program therefore the director tends to give the residents a lot of say. They will be looking for a student they can 1) get along with AND 2) they can rely on...for 3 years.

Plus, and I'm sure other 4th yr students noticed this during interview scheduling as well, programs interview a ton of applicants. 40+ is not uncommon. Yes I'm sure they take notes during interviews as well as during your clerkship month but how else are they going to remember you out of the stack of other qualified applicants? Residents will "vouch" for the students they want. That's how having the right "fit" in a program makes a huge difference.

Unfortunately as a student we don't know where we will fit until we actually spend time at a program. I for one didn't know the type of training and environment I wanted until I was actually out there.

 

[pacpod]

Unfortunately as a student we don't know where we will fit until we actually spend time at a program. I for one didn't know the type of training and environment I wanted until I was actually out there.

I definitely agree with this. It took first hand exposure to know what I really wanted in a training program.

 

[darazon]

Getting along with residents won't guarantee you the program but not getting along with them, based on personality conflicts, will definitely ensure you don't get the program.

Absolutely. At my program, there were a few externs that were not offered interview invites because of differing personalities from the residents.

I can talk up a student all I want and the attendings will listen but it won't guarantee that they will rank him/her high. However, if a student ticks me off or I just can't see myself working with them, the attendings take that seriously.