Army residency matching with non-military partner

[soulbiama]

I am currently in Army HPSP in medical school. My boyfriend is also in medical school, but is non-military. Has anyone gone through this process trying to match into the same area? Any advice? Thanks

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[Perrotfish]

Short answer is that you get your match in mid december , and then your boyfriend needs to try to match near you. Since they don't give out interview Invites in December this means he will need to try to interview at all of the civilian hospitals near every Army hospital on your rank list. For your part, try to match somewhere with multiple nearby civilian programs in his field of choice, rank more isolated programs lower on the list.

 

[cowspot83]

I am in your same boat- I am HPSP and my husband is civilian- currently trying to work out audition rotations and make a plan.... if your boyfriend is interested in any primary care field, it seems possible for you to match in december and him have already interviewed at your possible locations.... if he wants a competitive residency program, it will become increasingly difficult. Make a list of all the possible places the Army could send you, and make a list of all the civilian programs in that area. Unfortunately, the burden will fall on him to audition and interview at multiple programs in order to be prepared for wherever the Army sends you- it will complicate your 4th year schedule and be expensive. Either way, this requires a ton of planning and hopefully it all works out.... or at least that's what I keep telling myself

 

[colbgw02]

My wife and I were able to do this. The most important factor was probably that she was a competitive applicant applying for a noncompetitive field, so it would have been kind of crazy for the program not to want her even if I weren't in the picture. It also helped that her PD was sympathetic to our situation. We were lucky though, and under only slightly different circumstances we could have ended up spending three years thousands of miles away from each other.

 

[Homunculus]

my advice is somewhat pragmatic. it's possible, but as colbgw02 said there is a lot of crapshooting to it. you will find out first, which helps a little, but in my experience the big army residency locations aren't near big name civilian institutions (with some exceptions). so not knowing what you want to go into, here's my take:

residency is 3-5 years. that seems like a long time. in hindsight, it isn't. we have residents who have bf/gf, fiance, or spouses doing residencies at other locations and they are surviving fine. you will be busy enough that it's not as big of a deal as you think it is. and sometimes it's good to be able to spend time devoted to residency and not necessarily worrying about the needs of your bf/gf. with email, Skype and planes/trains/automobiles, you can keep in touch all you need to and still have the requisite booty calls.

the reason i say this is this-- in the military residency isn't as big of an issue with fellowships or later jobs. in fact, you can go to high powered fellowships on the civilian side in some instances because you bring your own money. in my (semi) limited exposure to the civilian side, this is not as true. for fellowships, research, jobs-- networking is key, and as much as people may want to deny it, the playing field is not level. this sets up the "i sacrificed XXX for you" scenario that sometimes plays out (may have experienced this myself in my younger days, only with medschool, lol) and will never go away. never. being hamstrung by a decision you made when you didn't know what you wanted in life is how HPSP makes its living- don't do it with residency decisions

if, on the other hand, you worry that "you won't make it" if you are 3-5 years "apart" during arguably some of the busiest years of your life-- well, it may not have been meant to be. maybe some other dude at your future residency is your soul mate. maybe a nurse. who knows. the point is, as you mature this 3-5 year thing should be a simple decision-- what is best for each of you individually now, which undoubtedly will be the best for both of you together later. and if it all blows up-- hey, you can rest easy at night knowing that no one sacrificed anything long term for short term gains.

talk to some PD's. they've likely seen it all, and may have some good advice as well.

--your friendly neighborhood dear abby caveman

 

[Perrotfish]

my advice is somewhat pragmatic. it's possible, but as colbgw02 said there is a lot of crapshooting to it. you will find out first, which helps a little, but in my experience the big army residency locations aren't near big name civilian institutions (with some exceptions). so not knowing what you want to go into, here's my take:

residency is 3-5 years. that seems like a long time. in hindsight, it isn't. we have residents who have bf/gf, fiance, or spouses doing residencies at other locations and they are surviving fine. you will be busy enough that it's not as big of a deal as you think it is. and sometimes it's good to be able to spend time devoted to residency and not necessarily worrying about the needs of your bf/gf. with email, Skype and planes/trains/automobiles, you can keep in touch all you need to and still have the requisite booty calls.

the reason i say this is this-- in the military residency isn't as big of an issue with fellowships or later jobs. in fact, you can go to high powered fellowships on the civilian side in some instances because you bring your own money. in my (semi) limited exposure to the civilian side, this is not as true. for fellowships, research, jobs-- networking is key, and as much as people may want to deny it, the playing field is not level. this sets up the "i sacrificed XXX for you" scenario that sometimes plays out (may have experienced this myself in my younger days, only with medschool, lol) and will never go away. never. being hamstrung by a decision you made when you didn't know what you wanted in life is how HPSP makes its living- don't do it with residency decisions

if, on the other hand, you worry that "you won't make it" if you are 3-5 years "apart" during arguably some of the busiest years of your life-- well, it may not have been meant to be. maybe some other dude at your future residency is your soul mate. maybe a nurse. who knows. the point is, as you mature this 3-5 year thing should be a simple decision-- what is best for each of you individually now, which undoubtedly will be the best for both of you together later. and if it all blows up-- hey, you can rest easy at night knowing that no one sacrificed anything long term for short term gains.

talk to some PD's. they've likely seen it all, and may have some good advice as well.

--your friendly neighborhood dear abby caveman

I disagree with this. 3-5 years is a long time. Its a long time when you're looking ahead, its a long time when you're living through it, and its a long time in retrospect.

You are right that it is not an insurmountably long time. You can get through it with loyalty, patience, and a large travel budget. Life throws a lot of curveballs at you and you do your best to deal with them, that's a big part of a long term relationship. Like you said, Skype and vacation time.

That being said I think that residency is far, far too long a time to be separated voluntarily from your spouse/fiancée, especially for something as nebulous as the hope that living apart will increase your competitiveness at the next phase of your career. "I love you to the ends of the earth, to the ends of time, for richer or poorer, in sickness and health, but not it if decreases my chance of a GI fellowship". Does that sound like a marriage that's going to last?

You're right that that does set up a ' I sacrificed XXX for you' scenario, but that's basically what a marriage is, isn't it? You mutually agree to sacrifice so many different XXXs that you don't even keep track who sacrificed what.

I would agree that if you do your best to match together and you end up on opposite sides of the continent you can get through it. I would suggest it might be time to decide to commit, or not, before committing to a rank list. However if you do end up engaged or married I wouldn't recommend starting off a life together by choosing to spend half a decade apart.

 

[Homunculus]

I disagree with this. 3-5 years is a long time. Its a long time when you're looking ahead, its a long time when you're living through it, and its a long time in retrospect.

You are right that it is not an insurmountably long time. You can get through it with loyalty, patience, and a large travel budget. Life throws a lot of curveballs at you and you do your best to deal with them, that's a big part of a long term relationship. Like you said, Skype and vacation time.

That being said I think that residency is far, far too long a time to be separated voluntarily from your spouse/fiancée, especially for something as nebulous as the hope that living apart will increase your competitiveness at the next phase of your career. "I love you to the ends of the earth, to the ends of time, for richer or poorer, in sickness and health, but not it if decreases my chance of a GI fellowship". Does that sound like a marriage that's going to last?

You're right that that does set up a ' I sacrificed XXX for you' scenario, but that's basically what a marriage is, isn't it? You mutually agree to sacrifice so many different XXXs that you don't even keep track who sacrificed what.

I would agree that if you do your best to match together and you end up on opposite sides of the continent you can get through it. I would suggest it might be time to decide to commit, or not, before committing to a rank list. However if you do end up engaged or married I wouldn't recommend starting off a life together by choosing to spend half a decade apart.

in retrospect, yes. i probably was a bit too pragmatic. my post was not geared toward married couples (though i did mention spouse-- i was thinking more the typical young newlywed scnario) and definitely not those with children. it's more the dating/almost engaged people like the OP i was directing it toward. not knowing what residencies they are looking at also makes it more difficult. i still don't think 3 years is that long in the grand scheme of things, and if a "mostly fit" residency is ok with the civilian side of the relationship then by all means go for it. people go to different medschools all the time with the same situations and have similar results.

there are too many variables to give more precise advice, but 3 years apart in a couple of cities that are a cheap non-stop flight apart-- totally doable. 5 years or more in an east coast/west coast scenario? not so much. my personal experience and observation after 10 years on active duty is that the mil/civ couples that do the best would likely be able to do any of the above scenarios and be fine. others are doomed regardless. so the ones where location actually plays a role (being apart vs giving up future options/opportunities) really comes down to the individuals involved.

probably could have worded it better, but bottom line is i would not place proximity above opportunity for a boyfriend. others may disagree, which is cool. ultimately it's all about what's best for those involved-- which can vary widely from person to person.

--your friendly neighborhood more pearls before swine than dear abby i guess caveman

 

[deuist]

I spent all of my engagement and the first year of my marriage away from my spouse as a result of the military match. You can make it work, but be prepared to be separated.

 

[WernickeDO]

I offer that having a boyfriend or girlfriend, rather than a spouse, may not garner much sympathy in the military or in civilian programs. If you guys are thinking about tying the knot, it may help you to get it done at the courthouse before you go on the interview trail. You can have a white wedding during your 4th year. Otherwise, targeting areas that can accommodate the two of you is good advice. That may mean scratching off entire regions that you would otherwise be interested in, but having a happy home is worth. You two will need each other through your training, which is long and draining on every front.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Marriage to a professional who is not in the military will garner zero sympathy. It makes no difference when they get married. Hard to get worse than zero point zero.


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[colbgw02]

Marriage to a professional who is not in the military will garner zero sympathy. It makes no difference when they get married. Hard to get worse than zero point zero.


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Certainly not from the military, but it may garner some from the relevant civilian program directors. And I think it's a valid point that such sympathy is more likely if the SO is a spouse rather than a boy/girlfriend.

 

[mdmed2012]

My wife and I did this and it worked out. I also have a good friend that made it work too. It can be done, but as caveman pointed out, there are a lot of variables that make giving advice difficult. My wife and I were both applying for noncompetitive specialties, which meant it was easier to get a position and there were several programs in the area.

She applied to several programs around my top 3 and scheduled the interviews for my 2nd and 3rd choice after the military match. Fortunately, I was able to get my top choice, so she could cancel the other interviews. Then she told her top program that I matched in the area. Her program director is former military so that may have helped in matching. Who knows.

My wife had at least 3-4 programs within a reasonable distance of my top 3 programs. If your boyfriend wants to do a specialty with fewer programs nationwide, there is a good chance he can only hope to match at one maybe two programs nearby (if there are any). If it is a competitive field, that can be even more difficult. Then you get into the difference in the duration of training. If you do a 3 year program and he does a 4-5 year program, you can almost guarantee you will be apart for the last year or two.

Bottom line, it can be done. Know what you're getting into and hope for the best. And after all of that, I should probably add that I am currently a GMO 5 hours away from my wife

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

Lots of folks can make it work, but a resident a couple of years ahead of me (awesome guy, won the teaching award, etc) had somewhat of a nervous breakdown in the middle of residency because his wife was on a different coast. They survived it, they're together now, but it was rough.

There is nothing more important that family. Ever. Put family first.

 

[idq1i]

I've been apart from my spouse x2 years so far, and the next/last 2 are getting only slightly better. Not fun.

Don't join the army unless you know the worst case scenario, and you are ok with it for 4 years.

 

[Perrotfish]

Marriage to a professional who is not in the military will garner zero sympathy. It makes no difference when they get married. Hard to get worse than zero point zero.


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I don't think this is true. You're right that there is a limit to the sympathy you get being married to a non-military professional and you might get separated.. For example if your spouse's career is completely and forever non-mobile and requires you to stay in a highly desirable job indefinitely to accommodate it (i.e your wife is a lawyer in Hawaii and you never want to leave Tripler) then that's not happening, but I know several colleagues who have managed to get their specialty leader to help them somewhat tailor their assignments around their spouse's career. Mostly that meant keeping people in licensed professions like medicine and Nursing on US soil where they could work, or alternatively creating jobs for them abroad. Occasionally it meant letting people switch down to GMO jobs that were locally available rather than moving to a billet within their specialty, which sucks for all involved but is arguably better than being on the opposite coast from your wife. The military is the military and the needs of the military come first, but specialty leaders are also human beings with families and it seems like they will often try to create a workable situation for you.

On the other hand: boyfriend/girlfriend = no sympathy at all. If you liked it the you shoulda put a ring on it. Actually I've noticed that's pretty much universally try in medicine: People will cross cover/switch schedules/change schedules occasionally if a resident to get a resident home to wife/husband/fiancee, but no one has any sympathy for the boyfriend/girlfriend.

 

[Kilgoretrout 65]

I don't think this is true. You're right that there is a limit to the sympathy you get being married to a non-military professional and you might get separated.. For example if your spouse's career is completely and forever non-mobile and requires you to stay in a highly desirable job indefinitely to accommodate it (i.e your wife is a lawyer in Hawaii and you never want to liver Tripler) then that's not happening, but I know several colleagues who have managed to get their specialty leader to help them somewhat tailor their assignments around their spouse's career. Mostly that meant keeping people in licensed professions like medicine and Nursing on US soil where they could work, or alternatively creating jobs for them abroad. Occasionally it meant letting people switch down to GMO jobs that were locally available rather than moving to a billet within their specialty, which sucks for all involved but is arguably better than being on the opposite coast from your wife. The military is the military and the needs of the military come first, but specialty leaders are also human beings with families and it seems like they will often try to create a workable situation for you.

On the other hand: boyfriend/girlfriend = no sympathy at all. If you liked it the you shoulda put a ring on it. Actually I've noticed that's pretty much universally try in medicine: People will cross cover/switch schedules/change schedules occasionally if a resident to get a resident home to wife/husband/fiancee, but no one has any sympathy for the boyfriend/girlfriend.

Sometimes the specialty leader leaves an ineffectual person in a job because their spouse has a sweet gig in the area, even after protests from PCSing or retiring or separating peers. That's when the military is harmed by the spouse favoritism.