Residency in Ireland, Practice in Canada

[Handsome88]

I don't know if this was mentioned before. But it doesn't seem that it is impossible to do residency in Ireland and then come back and practice in Canada.

By resolution of Council, The Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada (RCPSC) has assessed and approved The Royal College of Physicians of Ireland (Republic of Ireland) in 1994.

http://rcpsc.medical.org/residency/certification/img_page2_e.php

Therefore, the graduate from Ireland can undergo an in-depth evaluation of training in order to determine an applicants eligibility to the Royal College Examinations (in your specialty). And the evaluation only requires you to fill out this form: http://rcpsc.medical.org/residency/certification/IMG-form_e.pdf

You have to write the Canadian/US boards of course.

Can anyone tell me if this is easy to do? I would much rather go for the specialty of my dreams (which may be too competitive to get in Canada/US) than be stuck with a specialty I don't want all my life just to train in Canada/US. Or just don't want to sign an RoS contract that shackles me for 5 years. Knowing that I could practice back in Canada after training in Ireland is a great option.

I know it is hard to get an internship year in Ireland, but I'm sure it is easier than getting some specialties like ENT or Plastics in Canada (I personally know non-Europeans who got internships there in ENT, Cardiology, anesthesia...etc, without even being Irish medical graduates!).

How come this option is never mentioned? I've always thought it was impossible for us to practice back home if we trained outside Canada/US.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[IamSuperDoctor]

Well, I do know that in the US its much easier to specialize than in Canada. A lot of Irish grads treat the US as a backup. However, I am dont have any info to share regarding training outside North America.

 

[med2UCC]

By resolution of Council, The Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada (RCPSC) has assessed and approved The Royal College of Physicians of Ireland (Republic of Ireland) in 1994.

How come this option is never mentioned? I've always thought it was impossible for us to practice back home if we trained outside Canada/US.

Mostly because it takes sooooo long to get to consultant level in Ireland. Have you looked at the training schemes? You do intern year, then 3 SHO years, then 4-5 years as an SpR. This all assumes that you pass your membership exams in a timely fashion (that would be the membership exams with an artificially set automatic 25% pass rate, or to put it in other terms, a 75% fail rate) and that you get into a training scheme on your 1st try, also a big assumption. Most people take about 12 years to get to consultant level. Oh, and don't forget that you have to do a PhD in medicine somewhere in all that.
Cheers,
M

 

[Handsome88]

Mostly because it takes sooooo long to get to consultant level in Ireland. Have you looked at the training schemes? You do intern year, then 3 SHO years, then 4-5 years as an SpR. This all assumes that you pass your membership exams in a timely fashion (that would be the membership exams with an artificially set automatic 25% pass rate, or to put it in other terms, a 75% fail rate) and that you get into a training scheme on your 1st try, also a big assumption. Most people take about 12 years to get to consultant level. Oh, and don't forget that you have to do a PhD in medicine somewhere in all that.
Cheers,
M

Ok that explains it. Thanks.

 

[Handsome88]

Mostly because it takes sooooo long to get to consultant level in Ireland. Have you looked at the training schemes? You do intern year, then 3 SHO years, then 4-5 years as an SpR. This all assumes that you pass your membership exams in a timely fashion (that would be the membership exams with an artificially set automatic 25% pass rate, or to put it in other terms, a 75% fail rate) and that you get into a training scheme on your 1st try, also a big assumption. Most people take about 12 years to get to consultant level. Oh, and don't forget that you have to do a PhD in medicine somewhere in all that.
Cheers,
M

Do you have to be at the consultant level in order to work in Canada? What is the equivalent level of a Consultant in Canada? Or is there even such a thing there?

 

[BarryK]

>>> Most people take about 12 years to get to consultant level. Oh, and don't forget that you have to do a PhD in medicine somewhere in all that.

Yes, and on top of that, there's the recent warning from the head of the Doctors in Ireland about the number of entering Medical Students having recently ** doubled** in Ireland (from 300 per year to 650 per year), with no expected specialist places available for many. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=801550

That would likely add a few more years to the whole thing, perhaps making it 15 years instead of 12. Added to the 5 years of Medicine, that's 20 years, if you make it through all the hoops.

 

[asd979]

Do you have to be at the consultant level in order to work in Canada? What is the equivalent level of a Consultant in Canada? Or is there even such a thing there?

1) I believe so.
2) You completing a residency in Canada or US makes you an equivalent of a Consultant in Ireland, without the bureaucratic nonsense and the excruciating years waiting and potentially never becoming a Consultant.

 

[jnuts]

Do you have to be at the consultant level in order to work in Canada? What is the equivalent level of a Consultant in Canada? Or is there even such a thing there?

1) You need to be fully qualified; but that doesn't mean you need to secure a consultant level job. Finishing a training scheme would allow you to have the same paper qualifications as a consultant

2) The equivallent is a Canadian Consultant working in an academic setting. In other words, consultants in the UK/Ireland all have a staff of junior doctors that they are teaching.

An addtional barrier that you are not considering is that the RCPSC certifies your specialty training NOT your basic medical license. That is done by the provincial colleges (for example the CPSO) which are NOT the same thing. Historically, the RCPSC has been more open to foreign training schemes than the provincial authorities and will certify specialist training from outside of Canada. That doesn't mean you can practice as you can be a College certified specialist without a basic medical license.

In terms of the provincial colleges recognizing foreign training, there is a complicated history. They used to recognize training in other commonwealth countries and the United States as equivallent to Canada, but that stopped completely about 20 years ago. Now all of the provinces have their own standards but work is on-going (and has been for the last 4 years) to adopt a harmonized licensing standard.

Most provinces accept American residencies as equivallent (there are some problems with the RCPSC when the American residency for a given specialty is shorter than the Canadian one). In some provinces (Ontario for sure and maybe Alberta) you don't even need to write the LMCC exams to be licensed once you've completed post-graduate training in the US. In general, it is very difficult to become fully licensed in any Canadian province after training outside of the USA or Canada without doing at least some post graduate work.

There may be a new scheme in Ontario that recognizes Irish/UK GP training for CPSO licensing. I'll keep you posted as info about that becomes available.

 

[Arb]

Ontario no longer considers the USMLEs equivalent to the LMCC.

 

[jnuts]

Ontario no longer considers the USMLEs equivalent to the LMCC.

My information might be out of date; if so I apologize. I was reading the details for Pathway 3 and 4 as per the CPSO website.

http://www.cpso.on.ca/registration/registrationpolicies/default.aspx?id=1816

Am I misreading something?

 

[jnuts]

There's also this, so now I'm really confused.

http://www.cpso.on.ca/policies/policies/default.aspx?id=1640

 

[puppylatte]

What is the latest on Irish GP training being accepted in Canada?

So far I found out that Irish GPs do not need to take the Canadian family medicine board exam. Looking at the CPSO is where things are getting really confusing, apparently that hasn't changed since 2011!

@jnuts, is it still feasible to do GP training in Ireland?
EDIT:
@advair250, do you know anything about the subject of applying Irish (or UK) training to Canada? I may have seen you posting about it on premed101. Excuse me if I'm mistaken.
Thanks!

 

[puppylatte]

?