Residencies obtained by Atlantic Bridge Participants

[leorl]

Attached is a list received by an SDN member and Irish med student from Louis Keenan of Atlantic Bridge regarding past residency placements. It doesn't say how the residencies were obtained (pre-match or Match), and I don't know how up-to-date the list is. Thanks much for getting this!

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[13538]

Would be interesting to know what med schools too....

 

[Miklos]

Attached is a list received by an SDN member and Irish med student from Louis Keenan of Atlantic Bridge regarding past residency placements. It doesn't say how the residencies were obtained (pre-match or Match), and I don't know how up-to-date the list is. Thanks much for getting this!

I'm still a skeptic, as I did a couple of spot checks...

Dr. D Tam Ophthalmology University of California, San Francisco; IS NOT listed on http://ucsfeye.net/residents.shtml

Dr. R Liddell Radiology Johns Hopkins University; http://www.rad.jhmi.edu/residents/ full names of residents are not listed.

Dr. J. Tsai Psychiatry Mayo Clinic, Rochester, MN; http://www.mayo.edu/msgme/psychiatry-rch.html does not list residents.

Dr. A Vora Ophthalmology Louisiana State University, Shreveport, LA; http://www.lsu-eye.lsuhsc.edu/Education/residency.htm does not list residents.

Dr. C. Goldman Neurosurgery Brown University; http://www.brownneurosurgery.com/residency.asp does not list residents.

Dr. G Heffner Ophthalmology Yale University, CT; http://info.med.yale.edu/clinop/teaching.html#residency does not list residents.

Miklos

 

[leorl]

Yeah, as I said, I don't know how up-to-date this is. The one who forwarded it to me and myself both know people who got residencies and aren't on this list. And I myself don't recognize names on the list, but then again, I would only know Trinity people. Will post more info. when I find out.

 

[Miklos]

Yeah, as I said, I don't know how up-to-date this is. The one who forwarded it to me and myself both know people who got residencies and aren't on this list. And I myself don't recognize names on the list, but then again, I would only know Trinity people. Will post more info. when I find out.

I looked up Dr. D Tam on the California Medical Board's website. There is no licensed doctor with that name in California who graduated from an Irish school.

 

[leorl]

Good call. Maybe a consultation with Mr. Keenan is in order.

 

[deleted21609]

This list has been around for a really long time. No recent grads from my school are on the list. The matches from long ago are pretty impressive, but I wonder why they don't update it. Suspicious. That 100% thing is just a lie.

 

[13538]

Yeah, the list must be really old! Personally, I know of a Trinity graduate (2001) who's doing general surgery at Mayo (categorical, through the match) and an RCSI graduate (1997) who did general surgery at UCSD and is now doing an oncology fellowship at MD Anderson in TX. Neither of them are on the list...

 

[Arb]

Yeah, the list must be really old! Personally, I know of a Trinity graduate (2001) who's doing general surgery at Mayo (categorical, through the match) and an RCSI graduate (1997) who did general surgery at UCSD and is now doing an oncology fellowship at MD Anderson in TX. Neither of them are on the list...

Doh. Seemed so promising

 

[leorl]

I don't think the 100% thing is a lie, as I personally have not ever heard of anyone who failed to obtain residency of those who applied. Some pre-matched. Unless you know of people, student.ie? I think the North Americans know what they have to do to get back. If Mr. Keenan does not have a more up-to-date list, then maybe we can try to organize each school to start a list for this year's graduating class.

 

[dontbsme]

I looked up Dr. D Tam on the California Medical Board's website. There is no licensed doctor with that name in California who graduated from an Irish school.

Dr. Diamond Tam is a resident in Ophtalmology at the University of California, San Francisco. See his article here:

http://www.ccmusa.org/challenger/041012/doc1.html

 

[dontbsme]

Dr. Robert Liddell is listed as a 4th year resident at Johns Hopkins (Radiology) here: http://www.rad.jhmi.edu/mri/MRI_Info_WhatsNew.htm

 

[dontbsme]

Dr. Anagh VORA...... Ophtalmology (Louisiana State Univ.)

http://www.sh.lsuhsc.edu/policies/epriv/VoraAnaghA.htm

 

[dontbsme]

Dr. Clifford Goldman ....completed his residency at Johns Hopkins (pain mgmt/anaethesiology) and is now in private practice

http://bdapps.ama-assn.org/iwcfmgr206/SESSION_ID=62456

 

[leorl]

well hey! that's some good research for ya!

 

[mick2003]

"

 

[Mike84]

Hey mick2003,

Did you go to an Irish med school and then match in the U.S. then? I am currently a Canadian undergrad and I am thinking of applying to Ireland but am worried about the success rate of Canadians in the U.S. Match. I have searched long and hard and cannot find any reliable stats on the latter.

"I don't think the 100% thing is a lie, as I personally have not ever heard of anyone who failed to obtain residency of those who applied. Some pre-matched."

Exactly -- "of those who applied." While the success stories are touted (Harvard, Hopkins, Mayo) there are many if not more who don't match because they can't get through the boards and, therefore, "don't apply."

While it's possible to get a very competitive residency as an FMG from Ireland - before you head off, I encourage applicants to take a hard look at themselves and ask if they have what it take to takes to prove to US residency directors that they didn't "need" to go abroad (IE: smoke the boards).

PS: so that you don't think that I'm just bitter - I happen to be a PGY-2 at one of the above three institutions.

Mick

 

[Sage880]

If you're lazy, don't come to Ireland. You will drink every night and have fun and join lots of clubs and coast through school and bomb the USMLE's. I know lots of people who are in this situation. The Irish who do it can still get something in Ireland but the North American grads are screwed. We call these people losers. Not to their face of course, but behind their backs. In person everyone is real sympathetic and says things like, "you'll get something somewhere" but everyone knows they won't.

For christ's sake people, why do you need a guarantee of everyone being able to match? Do some people match? Yes. Do some match into very good programs? Yes. Do some people screw themselves over and get left with nothing? Yes - probably a lot more then people coasted through an American school.

You know if you're smart enough to do medicine. If an Irish school is allowing you a chance at this that, for WHATEVER the reason, you wouldn't have had then I say you should go for it. Trust me, the Irish schools are good. Study hard here and remember you have almost twice the time to study for the USMLE-1 that American students do. Start studying USMLE review books early (I use them to study for all my classes as a review) and you will rock the test. You don't need someone to hold your hand.

The results speak for themselves. Irish grads are fine doctors. They're working all over the world. Believe in the program and be disciplined enough to know that you're not learning 100% exact USMLE covered knowledge (but it's really, really close) so you might have to read the odd text in your non-study time. If you can't do this then you're not ready for any school Irish or otherwise. If you can, then I personally guarantee that you'll get into whatever specialty you want.

I can't stand anyone who makes excuses for their own laziness. Student.ie has been saying that the Irish schools aren't that great because he knows some people who didn't get matched - even though he himself got matched into a really good program. I'm sorry student.ie, but your friends kind of just should like losers to me. I mean, you got what you wanted, right? Are you saying they worked just as hard as you and got shafted by going to school in Ireland?

Anyway, my bottom line is if you want to do well then get off SDN and go study. All this time you spend researching statistics to make yourself feel better about residency chances would be best served by just reading a med book. That will help your chances slightly - bitching about the lack of a match list won't.

PS: I don't mean to be a jerk or sound mean or offend anyone with this. I'm just tired because I was stupid when I travelled back and didn't get myself back on the time change the way I usually do. Now it's late at night here and I'm still wide awake. It's making me a little grouchy. Whoops!

 

[Badkarma25]

Sage just opened up a can of whoopass

 

[leorl]

"I don't think the 100% thing is a lie, as I personally have not ever heard of anyone who failed to obtain residency of those who applied. Some pre-matched."

Exactly -- "of those who applied." While the success stories are touted (Harvard, Hopkins, Mayo) there are many if not more who don't match because they can't get through the boards and, therefore, "don't apply."

While it's possible to get a very competitive residency as an FMG from Ireland - before you head off, I encourage applicants to take a hard look at themselves and ask if they have what it take to takes to prove to US residency directors that they didn't "need" to go abroad (IE: smoke the boards).

PS: so that you don't think that I'm just bitter - I happen to be a PGY-2 at one of the above three institutions.

Mick

Whoa. I don't know which school you went to, but that's a completely false impression, so shame on you. The reason some choose to stay here isn't because they can't "cut the boards." The ones who do the boards know full well what they are committing to, and I have not heard of any failures. "Failing" the USMLE would be very uncommon here. The ones who don't do the boards aren't subpar, and don't do the boards because of a conscious choice, not because they don't feel up to it. They mainly choose to stay because of long-term relationships, spouses or close family here. And, some don't want to return to US-life, they like the European style or want to practice here a bit. And a lot of Atlantic Bridge applicants are Canadians who 1) don't want to go back to Canada 2) have difficulties getting back into Canada b/c of their very strict requirements 3) have dual-citizenship with some European country or the UK so prefer to go the EU route.

 

[Miklos]

well hey! that's some good research for ya!

Yep. I'm eating crow.

 

[deleted21609]

I don't think the 100% thing is a lie.

Yeah it was probably true when written, but to imply that it's still true is certainly misleading.

The other thing that could be misleading to the reader is the specialties represented. Matching 8 years ago (or whatever) in anesthesiology and radiology is not impressive at all. Those fields were very easy to get in at that time and had majority foreign grads. If the matches were more recent, it would be impressive. I also wonder how many matched soon after graduation and how many match in fields they'd already had postgrad training in. I have no clue about the answer to that though.

Failing the USMLE is more common than you might think among Irish and foreign students. The schools are required to collect data on the USMLE pass rates in order to allow the US students to get financial aid, so there's no excuse to not publish the pass rate. ...except that it might discourage future applications.

Sage880- It has nothing to do with being lazy. People who do very well in Irish med schools and who beat their fellow applicants in the USMLE often still have difficulty matching. I know people who were near the top of the class & smoked the boards but are having difficulty getting interviews in only moderately competative specialties right now. They weren't lazy and at least one of them went to Ireland without even applying to schools at home, but they're pretty screwed anyway. I don't know why some strong applicants do well and others struggle, but to call them lazy is just false.

 

[Sage880]

Sage880- It has nothing to do with being lazy. People who do very well in Irish med schools and who beat their fellow applicants in the USMLE often still have difficulty matching. I know people who were near the top of the class & smoked the boards but are having difficulty getting interviews in only moderately competative specialties right now. They weren't lazy and at least one of them went to Ireland without even applying to schools at home, but they're pretty screwed anyway. I don't know why some strong applicants do well and others struggle, but to call them lazy is just false.

Ok, I'll admit I don't know a huge number of Canadian grads. There weren't many in final year last year but the few I know all got what they wanted. But they all scored 98+ on step 1 from what I've heard.

I know a couple Americans in final year now who haven't even written the USMLE-1 yet. I can't understand what they're thinking. They're not the best in their class by any means. I have no idea what they think they're going to do next year. As it stands now, only the very very best NA grads are asked to do an intern year in Ireland.

I'm not trying to stir up crap but I'm hearing very different stories from you and UCC grads I've talked to. There's something missing here. I've really been hearing it's no big deal and if you do well the doors are all open no matter where you've gone to school. From you I hear that you got a very competitive residency spot but you have friends who did equally well as you and are left out in the cold.

Anyway, I'm not saying there's no barriers. Personally, I didn't take science in undergrad. I didn't know what DNA was 8 months before I took the MCAT. But I became obsessed with that test and studied my ass off for it and rocked it. I couldn't go to school in NA because I didn't have anything even remotely resembling organic chem. Plus my engineering GPA was crap. Ireland and Australia were my only choices.

Now that I'm here I've become obsessed with the American board exams. And except from you, I've heard nothing contradicting the idea that if I do well in school and ace those exams I will get the speciality I want. I'm not calling you a liar, I'd just like to know why I'm hearing two different stories. I've never actually met someone who didn't match that I didn't think was just lazy and had thrown away the oppertunity that was given to them. But I only know a small group of people so them doing well could maybe be the exception to the rule. I'd love to actually talk to someone who's done really well and been screwed over. Not that I don't believe the "I have a friend who.." stories but it just has a little more credibility coming from the person it happened to. Any real horror stories out there?

 

[leorl]

Yeah, I've tried to get grads to post but it seems people drop off the face of the earth during intern year cuz they get so busy. I'll keep at them, and see if we can get anymore clarification from AB

 

[obb]

Yeah, I've tried to get grads to post but it seems people drop off the face of the earth during intern year cuz they get so busy. I'll keep at them, and see if we can get anymore clarification from AB

recent grad from rcsi here - all the rcsi names are accurate, no graduates from last year on it though. the most recent rcsi names on the list are from the 2003 graduating class.

 

[Mike84]

Hey Obb,

Do you mind telling us where u are from (Can/U.S. citizen) and if/where you matched? Thanks.