Researcher's Lifestyle

[maryanne213]

What is the lifestyle of a researcher like? From what I have gathered so far, you have to have a PHD or MD to do any real research, the hours are long, and the pay isn't that great as you have to compete for grant money. I'm really interesting in doing research, but I want to be able to support myself, have health insurance etc.

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[DrChandy]

What is the lifestyle of a researcher like? From what I have gathered so far, you have to have a PHD or MD to do any real research, the hours are long, and the pay isn't that great as you have to compete for grant money. I'm really interesting in doing research, but I want to be able to support myself, have health insurance etc.

You can do research with a B.S. or an M.S. With these degrees you will be able to work under the title of Research Assistant. You can also do research with a PhD, an MD, or a DO degree. With these degrees you will be able to work under the title of a Post-doc. The pay as a post-doc is more than that of a research assistant due to the higher level of education.

As far as hours, this is highly variable depending on a) the type of research you are in, b) the competitiveness of the program you are in, which predicts how much you, the individual has to work to stay competitive, whether you are a principal investigator (the one who is directing the research) or not.

As far as supporting yourself as a researcher, it is more than possible to be able to have a family of four (two children with a spouse who also works) as a higher level research assistant and to be able to live comfortably financially.

 

[dr.z]

Starting post-doc salary in academia is about $35,000 a year.

 

[Adcadet]

From what I've seen the lifestyle of an MD doing research is in some ways better than an MD not doing research. I put a premium on self-direction, and hate the idea of just being a cog in the gigantic machinery that is the health care system. I want to control my own hours, to decide not to come into the office if I feel I'm more productive at home and don't have appointments. I also want to be able to work whenever the mood strikes me, even if that's 10 pm on a Saturday night.

 

[javandane]

my experience has been that, as a grad. student or post-doc, you will work very hard for very little compensation. same may be true as an assistant or associate professor. however, once you acheive a tenured professorship, life can be very nice. the PI i worked for worked 8:30-5:30 M-F. never weekends. salary was ~120K. dept. chair probably put in an extra 5-10 hours/week, but salary was ~200K. so, i'd say lifestyle/compensation is not too bad at all.

 

[BigRedZippo]

Its a difficult life, no doubt. I'd try to get to know different PIs and talk to them. Don't bring up money, but "lifestyle". You'll find it's very stressful, can entail long hours, is competitive but can be VERY rewarding. Good luck.

 

[doctorsquared]

What is the lifestyle of a researcher like? From what I have gathered so far, you have to have a PHD or MD to do any real research, the hours are long, and the pay isn't that great as you have to compete for grant money. I'm really interesting in doing research, but I want to be able to support myself, have health insurance etc.

At the BS or MS level you are a technician. You are told what to do and you do it. This is a good job wtih a mediocre salary and good benefits. Hours may or may not be longer than 40 hours per week. A PhD is not a good idea. It is very difficult to complete, the percent who finish the program is low especially for women. Unless you are lucky or talented enough to do outstanding research, you will be a postdoctoral for a very long time. I was not allowed to work on a PhD project that would have been significant due to my adviser's lack of knowledge of molecular biology. A postdoctoral fellowship is really just a glorified technician job since you are not the principle investigator and must do what you are told. The influx of foreign PhD grads has allowed programs to hire large numbers of postdoctoral fellows and it seems like you never get off the postdoc track. Even pharmaceutical companies have invented postdoc positions. I have recently seen "junior" and "senior" postdocs positions advertised. Look in the back of Science and you will see lots of postdoc openings and few real jobs. I have a PhD and have done two postdoctoral fellowships. When I needed to take time off give birth to our first child at age 41, I was told I could not take unpaid maternity leave because a postdoctoral fellowship is not the same as being an employee. I had to quit and take COBRA so I could continue my health insurance. The NIH demanded its final grant back for work that I completed because I violated a clause that said that I was being "trained" and I had to continue to work in the same field. (indentured servent clause). I still owe the NIH "payback service" for the last seven months I worked and have payed taxes on. I am now finishing medical school and look foward to my future. I just wish I did this in the first place.

Have you considered medical or dental school?

 

[tbo]

I agree with much that has been posted. Generally it's not financially rewarding but if you love research (which sometimes means love data, details of data, love seeing the "big picture" of a certain field and how you can contribute to it), then all of the success and fame falls to the wayside.

I suggest reading "Advice for a Young Investigator" by Santiago Ramon y Cajal. It depicts a very real, but also surprisingly encouraging view on "making it" in research.

 

[adenovirus]

No one has mentioned the possibility of doing a DVM. Once you are admitted to a program, you can do a joint MS or PhD and then you have many, many options from which to choose a career. PLUS: Residency is NOT required with a DVM, so you save a few years there. I love research and have been admitted to vet school (MSU)...am still debating whether or not I will do the joint DVM/PhD degree (or MS in public health). I may go to medical school instead however, haven't decided yet. I already have an MS and KNOW I love research. We'll see.

Food for thought anyway.

Adeno

 

[Adcadet]

No one has mentioned the possibility of doing a DVM. Once you are admitted to a program, you can do a joint MS or PhD and then you have many, many options from which to choose a career. PLUS: Residency is NOT required with a DVM, so you save a few years there. I love research and have been admitted to vet school (MSU)...am still debating whether or not I will do the joint DVM/PhD degree (or MS in public health). I may go to medical school instead however, haven't decided yet. I already have an MS and KNOW I love research. We'll see.

Food for thought anyway.

Adeno

Very good point. Lots of good researchers coming out of DVM/MS/PhD/MPH programs, and the vets are an important part of many Academic Health Centers.

 

[OctoDoc]

Professors at Ph.D.-granting institutions work no less harder than interns. Probably harder. They develop their own courses (lecture notes, homework, quizzes, exams, office hours, help sessions, coordinate with lab, TAs). They also run a research program, which includes proposal writing (which they do constantly, and usually several at the same time), grant administration, review other people's manuscripts and proposals, organize and chair symposia and conferences, prepare poster and oral presentations, conduct research, direct undergraduate students, graduate students and postdocs in his/her research group, group meetings, evaluate progress reports, countless meetings with their students, write progress reports to grant agencies, write manuscripts (journal articles, book chapters), attend divisional and departmental meetings, organize, host and attend seminars and meet with the speakers, come up with new research ideas and develop them, give lectures at other universities and companies, attend graduate student seminars, qualifying or cumulative examinations (and make up and grade the latter), attend thesis defenses, advise undergraduate students, attend divisional, departmental, and university meetings, compliance meetings (e.g. OSHA, budget, technology transfer, etc.), develop new courses and laboratory exercises, review textbooks, participate in university committees, and...well, I'm sure you get the point by now.

Think you can do this by working 40-hour weeks? The 8:30 to 5:30 that you see your professor is like the part of the iceberg that you see. When I was a professor, I worked 70 hours a week when I was dragging my _ss.

And all for only 2/3 of what their friends are making at companies, and they only work 9 to 5, no weekends.

 

[MasonPrehealth]

OctoDoc has alluded to the fact that we are focusing on the life of academic researchers. Government research "life" however is a lot more humane if you can call it that. Those positions are hard to get, but you can be a postdoc for $60K+.

A lot of other people post on life as a researcher on the other board I more frequently visit on Sciencecareers.org, which is AAAS's website for helping scientists navigate through their careers inside or outside academia. I'm one of the people on their forums, and it is interesting the types of things you can do.

A nice book that is a must-read for graduate students: Cynthia Robbins-Roth's Alternative Careers in Science: Leaving the Ivory Tower (new edition 2005).

 

[Sophie]

I don't have any insight into post-doc research, but I am currently a research assistant. I only have my B.S., I work for the federal gov't, my hours are 8am to 4:30pm with an hour lunch. I've worked there for less than a year and my salary is $40,200. Each additional year you work for the gov't your salary goes up, plus there's a mandatory cost of living increase each year (about 3% I think). The work is very laid-back, and I never have to put in overtime. Plus, I have 13 paid sick days/year, and 13 paid vacation days, in addition to 10 paid holiday days. Once you've been at the gov't for a few years you accrue sick days and vacation days twice as fast. Good health insurance too.

The only downside, which is a HUGE downside, is very few people in the gov't are motivated, and most will just do the minimum they have to to get by. This is extremely frustrating.

 

[jimbobb23]

Being a researcher can be pretty nice (I'm an MD/PhD student - just finished PhD). Hours are not terrible. You are under a great deal of pressure early in your career to establish yourself, but once you do things are very nice.

You definitely want to become the PI at some point to have the nice life.

 

[Immuno-guy]

Some of the posts here seem overly optimistic about the researh lifestyle. Consider how you live now. If you do a Ph.D. your standard of living will not increase significanlty for 10 years. Sure you are content now, but will you be content as you approach your third post doc hoping to be offered that facculty position? Same car, same rental? No savings, no 401K, no Roth IRA, no retirement money, no house. Think about it. That is a lot to do without. And if you are offered that position, you'd better have an understanding spouse because if you want tenure - and we all want tenure- you'll not be seeing much of him/her. However, there are far more assistant professors than positions, so... here's the crunch, after 10 years (6 +2-3, +2-3 for PhD and two postdocs)... you may find your university stops paying you. That's right. Stops paying you. You've had your chance to bring in $$$ and you've not managed to. So they stop paying you. Meanwhile you have to contempate a career change at 35-40.

Go for the MD. 100% of MD's make very good money. Perhaps 10% of people in academics do. They are the exception not the rule. Go for the MD/DO/DDS. They all allow research and despite being tough for a few years, you'll not regret the lifestyle.

Most associate professors where I work regret going into research. Funding has gone from 24% under Clinton to 14%. That means you've got a 1 in 7 chance of getting government money. Do you still like research? So do I, but I certainly don't recommend it for any other reason.

Poor job security, low wage (considering 10 years training after BS degree), stressful, long hours. Get an MD.

I'm a 6th year Ph.D. student, my wife has since finished medical school and much of her residency. She's getting job offers each week starting at $170K. When I graduate from a $24K PhD position, I'll be getting offers for $35K... for the next 4-6 years. Pathetic really.

Remember the professors you speak to are the lucky few who survive the process. I'll bet most of their PhD buddies have left the field.

I really, really want to go to dental school after my PhD to allow me to research without worrying about money for the rest of my days.

 

[relentless11]

Some of the posts here seem overly optimistic about the researh lifestyle. Consider how you live now. If you do a Ph.D. your standard of living will not increase significanlty for 10 years. Sure you are content now, but will you be content as you approach your third post doc hoping to be offered that facculty position? Same car, same rental? No savings, no 401K, no Roth IRA, no retirement money, no house. Think about it. That is a lot to do without. And if you are offered that position, you'd better have an understanding spouse because if you want tenure - and we all want tenure- you'll not be seeing much of him/her. However, there are far more assistant professors than positions, so... here's the crunch, after 10 years (6 +2-3, +2-3 for PhD and two postdocs)... you may find your university stops paying you. That's right. Stops paying you. You've had your chance to bring in $$$ and you've not managed to. So they stop paying you. Meanwhile you have to contempate a career change at 35-40.

Although I do not dispute this, I have to point out that your success, enthusiasm and experience as a PhD depends on YOU, not the degree. Here at the University of California, to be a professor (assistant, associate, or full professor), you need to be: (1) continue to forward your area of research (e.g., publications), and (2) be a national if not international leader in your field. If you meet this criteria, the university won't stop paying you. Professors that leave our system more than likely, move off to other schools, rather than quit the profession. Bringing in the money is always the issue, regardless of what profession. If you are good at what you do, you will bring in the money for whatever organization you work for.

Most associate professors where I work regret going into research. Funding has gone from 24% under Clinton to 14%. That means you've got a 1 in 7 chance of getting government money. Do you still like research? So do I, but I certainly don't recommend it for any other reason.

Again, I do not dispute if this is happening where you are at, but here at UC Davis, and based on friends at other UC schools, associate professors do not regret getting into research. Perhaps NIH and NSF funding has gone down, however there is such a thing as private funding. In fact, as a PhD student, I am funded 100% by private companies. My PI has been a professor (tenured) at my school for some 20 odd years, and has done the NIH stuff, but has always emphasized our partnership with industry to fund our projects, and our students.

Poor job security, low wage (considering 10 years training after BS degree), stressful, long hours. Get an MD.

Again, this is relative. Our professors here have a starting salary of ~$42k, and can go up to ~$128k. A fellow PhD student in my lab will complete his dissertation this summer, and already has a job offer at a local biomedical company with starting salary of $80k. I would attribute this to our strong relation with the private sector though, and thus depending on what you do, who you talk to, and what you want to do, you may find more or less $$.

I'm a 6th year Ph.D. student, my wife has since finished medical school and much of her residency. She's getting job offers each week starting at $170K. When I graduate from a $24K PhD position, I'll be getting offers for $35K... for the next 4-6 years. Pathetic really.

I will start my 2nd year this fall, and currently on schedule (research wise) to complete my PhD by the end of my 3rd year. I have no debt thanks to my graduate student researcher salary, and tuition fee remission unlike my friends who are in med school. However, I plan to apply to our med school (retroactively) as an MSTP, or apply after my PhD since I want to PRACTICE medicine in addition to using my PhD training for research purposes. As an MSTP, I am guranteed something like $50k/yr (some of which goes to tuition remission), or I can do a post-doc in my lab and make a similar amount. So the $24-35k that you speak of does not represent every school and every person.

Ultimately, this is MY experience in this area, and clearly everyone has their own experience, both good and bad. The most important thing is to like what you are doing. Its not an easy job as a PhD, nor is it an easy job as an MD. You are expected to perform well where ever you go, and in whatever you do, and that eventually will determine how much you get paid, how long you have that job, and how happy you are. Clearly it is not dependent on if you have a PhD, MD/DO, DDS, DVM, Pharm D or whatever else. It has to do with your work ethics, your research, your motivation, and luck.

 

[MasonPrehealth]

Hopefully I won't come across as being overly optimistic, but I also want to point out that an MD won't be cream and strawberries either. A Ph.D. in the sciences at least gets paid to do work in their training rather than go deep into debt. Residents that I know of get out with about $200K in the hole and paying it off over 15 years. Heck, my former boss got tenure and only recently was able to pay off the medical school debt in spite of his house, undergraduate debts, and an upcoming college tuition payment for his children.

Again, I point out that not everyone goes into academia after a Ph.D. There are a lot of jobs out there in industry-related research that pay much higher than the $35K Immuno-guy seems to be getting. Contemplating a career change at age 35-40... you should be contemplating it as soon as you are done with your comps. Of course, you have to become trained and prove yourself knowledgeable of the life in industry, but you can do it.

I was able to set up my own Roth IRA as a postdoc, and when I was hired as a research associate, I got enough money saved into a 403b/401k plan. In other words, you actually can save some money if you dedicate yourself to do it. And yes, I bought a house, though I am in the process of selling it so I can eventually get a new one...

I also think that the chances for new investigators to get funding is higher than the atrocious 14% line, but not by much. The recent doubling of the NIH budget over the previous 7-8 years (Clinton-Bush2) wound up redistributing a lot of funds... to older investigators. The NIH is aware that it has to do a lot for supporting new investigators.

What is more egregious than the pay lines is the fact that getting a tenure-track job is coming to be downright near impossible. More non-tt positions are being created so you can still do your research as long as you get your own grant funding... but tenure is out of the question. Many people/permanent postdocs are happy in these research instructor positions... I would not be.

I do wonder why one could not have considered doing a Ph.D/DDS. I know those programs exist. However, as a person who now has to advise career changers, the admissions committee is going to ask of the sincere motivations of a person with a Ph.D. to get a DDS. I'm sure you can sugar coat things to say it's not about the money, but the committee would like to know how that decision makes sense. That same question will also exist if you (as a Ph.D.) go for a position in biotech, pharma, or other industry positions. You could actually get a $70-90K starting salary with your Ph.D... if you really prepared for it.

 

[qwopty99]

hi folks

with some trepidation, i made it through this thread.

i'm an OD (recent grad) planning on doing the PhD starting next fall. i never viewed life as an academic as "easy", but the tone of many of the posts here are by no stretch even remotely positive.

to those who express the pessimistic lifestyle/outcomes, i was wondering what your views are on someone with an established health professional degree - and hence, money would "never" be an issue - persuing a life in academia? i'm assuming u would be more positive about research as a career - but how much so? besides the money, are other issues (like politics, and like the lack-of-tenure as some have described) enough to warrant someone just to "stay where they are" and (in my case), just practice optometry?

 

[qwopty99]

further - isn't there going to be a great shortage of faculty in the upcoming years? i keep hearing about how student enrollment will continue to increase, and that faculty will begin to retire in droves? is this perception true?

 

[RxnMan]

...to those who express the pessimistic lifestyle/outcomes, i was wondering what your views are on someone with an established health professional degree - and hence, money would "never" be an issue - persuing a life in academia? i'm assuming u would be more positive about research as a career - but how much so? besides the money, are other issues (like politics, and like the lack-of-tenure as some have described) enough to warrant someone just to "stay where they are" and (in my case), just practice optometry?

When the others are talking about money issues, they mean their salary + staff salary + supplies + lab space + ... you get the idea. Even if you were independently wealthy and didn' need a salary, you'd have tons of expenses. So money is a huge issue.

I just finished my master's degree. I was finished with experiments and my thesis was essentially written for over a year ago. Why has it taken so long? It wasn't because I didn't work hard (which I did,) or because the science wasn't good (It was patent-able). It was ego appeasement. Endless rounds of edits, getting signatures, paperwork, and presentations.

The only way I'd do research is in medicine, where funding's easier to get and tenure isn't an issue.

By the way, as much as people have touted the effect of your research, and how much your choice of research project may influence your life, forget it. The single most important 'research-related' choice you can make as a grad student is picking your advisor. That guy can make or break you, make the paperwork disappear and make your degree go fast, or make it take 6+ years. And you will be working together for years, so it better be someone you can stand to work with.

 

[beastmaster]

You can do research with a B.S. or an M.S. With these degrees you will be able to work under the title of Research Assistant.

At the BS or MS level you are a technician. You are told what to do and you do it.

Fools.

In my job before school, at a top research institution, two Senior Research Specialists (one notch below the department's director) both had a BS degree. No one told them what to do. And one of their salaries was higher than every PhD with a professorship except other department heads, and climbing. He (my boss) held similar positions during his 20 years at biotech, and his wit, knowledge, and experience trumped the degree war every time. As a researcher, he was in charge of other research PhDs for most of his career.

I know many such examples. I understand you guys are only familiar with traditional tracks to a research MD or PHD or whatever, but please stop spreading misinformation if you have no clue what goes on in the real world.

 

[MWillie]

Fools.

In my job before school, at a top research institution, two Senior Research Specialists (one notch below the department's director) both had a BS degree. No one told them what to do. And one of their salaries was higher than every PhD with a professorship except other department heads, and climbing. He (my boss) held similar positions during his 20 years at biotech, and his wit, knowledge, and experience trumped the degree war every time. As a researcher, he was in charge of other research PhDs for most of his career.

I know many such examples. I understand you guys are only familiar with traditional tracks to a research MD or PHD or whatever, but please stop spreading misinformation if you have no clue what goes on in the real world.

These are the exception rather than the rule.