Research, clinical, non-clinical, EC, and volunteer hours

[ChicagoPreMedStudent]

How many research, clinical, non-clinical, EC, and volunteer hours should I have to get into competitive schools like NYU or the like?

I know the obvious answer is a lot or "many" but how many hours (roughly) would you say the average applicant applying to competitive schools has?

How many hours do you think an above average student applying to those kinds of schools has?

(Obviously paired with excellent grades and amazing MCAT scores)

EDIT: I am a senior in HS right now and I am an applicant for an internship at one of the hospitals near me over the summer, I am also looking into getting my EMT license and working part time. I live in and urban area so plenty of opportunity

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[deleted1025488]

There is no absolute benchmark and for schools at the caliber of NYU hours probably won't be what matters, but rather impact.

However, generally what is touted around here as "above average" is the likes of 300+ for nonclinical and clinical. For research, I think quantifying it in terms of working a summer or internship would probably be more useful; further, amount of presentations/pubs/posters/scholarships/etc. Most high-achieving applicants in research seem to have around 1-2 years of research. With that being said, research is a pretty touchy subject on this forumn and some people say you don't really need that much of it. It depends what you want.

 

[LizzyM]

NYU is "tuition free" which puts in a class by itself compared with other schools. It is also a top research school so it is going to be looking for applicants with research experience as well as clinical experience and community service (non-clinical volunteering).

Consider SUNY-Downstate, NY Medical College, Albany, Buffalo, SUNY- Upstate, if you really want to be a doctor. If it is NYU or bust, consider why you want that.

 

[ChicagoPreMedStudent]

NYU is "tuition free" which puts in a class by itself compared with other schools. It is also a top research school so it is going to be looking for applicants with research experience as well as clinical experience and community service (non-clinical volunteering).

Consider SUNY-Downstate, NY Medical College, Albany, Buffalo, SUNY- Upstate, if you really want to be a doctor. If it is NYU or bust, consider why you want that.

It is most certainly not NYU or bust, I am a high school senior trying to figure out strategically what I should do, when, and how often. I would like to attend NYU, because of - of course the free tuition, so that is why it is one of my top choices (and the location etc etc etc), but I am totally open to other schools... I just dont want to go 250,000 into debt

 

[Vivid_Quail]

You don't need to worry about EC's for top schools, especially not NYU, if you don't have a 3.9+ sGPA and 518+ MCAT. Focus on getting a 4.0 your first few semester from the highest prestige school you get into...(GPA + MCAT) * school prestige is like 90% of your app at top schools...their 10th and 25th percentile stats don't lie. You can add EC's slowly once your grades are perfect.

There is no amount of volunteering or research or awesome personality traits in the world that is going to get someone with a 3.6 in undergrad or a 514 MCAT into NYU. Maybe a literal Navy SEAL or someone with 50+ first author pubs.

 

[Medicine-Man]

They are rare but exist
View attachment 331055

one hundred and thirty one 3.9+ gpas and 520+ MCATs with one 3.57 512 son of the dean. Got it

 

[Vivid_Quail]

They are rare but exist
View attachment 331055

I don't have MSAR anymore because I am in med school and it expired, but iirc NYU's 10th percentile GPA/MCAT is still something insane like 3.85/518? 3.57 and 512 and very very rare like you said. To the point of not even being worth considering short of being a high profile PhD with big publication history.

 

[deleted1025488]

NYU's 10th percentile GPA/MCAT is still something insane like 3.85/518?

Seriously? I can't imagine how the personality of the cohort must be if this is true. Remember when AOs said they filter out perfectionist 528/4.0's? Good one

 

[Doctoscope]

Seriously? I can't imagine how the personality of the cohort must be if this is true. Remember when AOs said they filter out perfectionist 528/4.0's? Good one

NYU and Wash St. Louis are also some of the most stat wh**ey top schools out there. In comparison, UCSF, another top school, has a "considerably lower" (for a top school at least) median GPA/MCAT compared to NYU. It's not all like that (but you still need to be an excellent candidate).

 

[LittleBrother]

I'm going to take a different tack on this one:

If your attitude is "how much quantify of these things do I need to check NYU's boxes" then you probably won't get into NYU. Granted, some people check into boxes get lucky, but there isn't much rhyme of reason to it.

My buddy got into NYU w/o any research or volunteer experience. But, he's a non-trad with a great story that comes from an area that doesn't produce many physicians.

Focus on you for right now. Take the time to find the things you are passionate about and then go pursue those things. You will have much more to show for it at the end.

 

[LittleBrother]

There is no amount of volunteering or research or awesome personality traits in the world that is going to get someone with a 3.6 in undergrad or a 514 MCAT into NYU. Maybe a literal Navy SEAL or someone with 50+ first author pubs.

Why can't "go be a Navy SEAL" every be legitimate advice?

 

[KnightDoc]

It is most certainly not NYU or bust, I am a high school senior trying to figure out strategically what I should do, when, and how often. I would like to attend NYU, because of - of course the free tuition, so that is why it is one of my top choices (and the location etc etc etc), but I am totally open to other schools... I just dont want to go 250,000 into debt

It's great that you want to get a jump on things, and you've come the right place. Just keep in mind that there really literally around 10,000 +/- people just like you competing for a few thousand spots at top schools.

None of us wants to go $250,000+ in debt. The bad news is that if your parents are deemed to be able to afford to pay for you, and for whatever reason they don't want to, the odds are high you WILL be incurring significant debt. Relatively few people are good enough and lucky enough to not only land a spot at a top school, but one with the funding and willingness to provide financial relief to those who are not deemed to have financial need.

Don't obsess on this as a HS senior, but keep it in the back of your mind. The good news is that if you are successful in this journey, you WILL make enough to service whatever debt you have to assume while also having a very comfortable life. Try not to put the cart before the horse. Focus on doing well in school and gathering all of the expected experiences, both the check the boxes and to confirm your interest in the field. Do this well, and what school you are admitted to 4+ years from now will take care of itself. Good luck!!

 

[KnightDoc]

They are rare but exist
View attachment 331055

So, basically it's a lottery ticket that many of us are welcome to take a shot at, with little realistic expectation of success, just like the real lottery!

9,000 applications for 103 spots, with half the spots occupied by 50 of the 700 +/- people every year with MCATs at or above 522, and the other 50 occupied by everyone else, including people with 520s and 521s! So, basically people with a 522 or above have a 50/700 (7.1%) shot, and everyone else, including 520 and 521, have a 50/8300 (0.6%) shot.

I'll bet most of the rest are actually 520-21, and close to zero are between 512-19 (can't be more than 10 or so out of 1,000s of applications, can it? -- Edit: 519 was 25%-ile last year, and 515 was 10%-ile, so it's less than 10 below 515 and less than 25 below 519, assuming that didn't change for 2020). And this is without even looking at grades, so when you screen out high MCAT low GPA applicants, the odds are even lower. Holistic indeed!!!

 

[Medicine-Man]

So, basically it's a lottery ticket that many of us are welcome to take a shot at, with little realistic expectation of success, just like the real lottery!

9,000 applications for 103 spots, with half the spots occupied by 50 of the 700 +/- people every year with MCATs at or above 522, and the other 50 occupied by everyone else, including people with 520s and 521s! So, basically people with a 522 or above have a 50/700 (7.1%) shot, and everyone else, including 520 and 521, have a 50/8300 (0.6%) shot.

I'll bet most of the rest are actually 520-21, and close to zero are between 512-19 (can't be more than 10 or so out of 1,000s of applications, can it? -- Edit: 519 was 25%-ile last year, and 515 was 10%-ile, so it's less than 10 below 515 and less than 25 below 519, assuming that didn't change for 2020). And this is without even looking at grades, so when you screen out high MCAT low GPA applicants, the odds are even lower. Holistic indeed!!!

just get a 528 on the MCAT it’s not hard

/s

 

[Moko]

Seriously? I can't imagine how the personality of the cohort must be if this is true. Remember when AOs said they filter out perfectionist 528/4.0's? Good one

The personalities of these high-achieving cohorts are probably comparable to any other medical school. The student culture may paradoxically be even better at these high-stats schools since their students may feel less need to be competitive knowing that the vast majority of them (even the "average" students) will match very well based on historical data.

The interview and LORs are also there to weed out any high-achieving candidates with maladaptive personalities. Such candidates are routinely and swiftly rejected regardless of their achievements. We are ultimately selecting for students who we would want as future colleagues. Just my thoughts.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

NYU and Wash St. Louis are also some of the most stat wh**ey top schools out there. In comparison, UCSF, another top school, has a "considerably lower" (for a top school at least) median GPA/MCAT compared to NYU. It's not all like that (but you still need to be an excellent candidate).

I thought UCSF is the top school.

 

[Medicine-Man]

I thought UCSF is the top school.

Just like undergrad, I don’t think there is a “THE” top.