Regretting optometry after I think of this....

[Princeod2583]

Say you graduate school in 200k debt, which you probably will be, if not more...
-you get a job for 80,000 straight out of school ....
-your income based repayment is around $900/ month (or aprox 10,800 annually)
-subtract 24,000 for federal taxes
-subtract 5,000 for state taxes
-subtract 1,000 for rent (12,000)
-subtract 300 for car payment (3600)
-subtract 100 for car insurance (1200)
-subtract 500 for food (6000)

$80,000-62,600= 17,400 Wow. That.is.pathetic.

I worked my butt off for 4 years to take home 17k a year?

The worst part? you will be locked into this salary for years to come because you will be paying student loans back for close to 25 years. If your income goes up, the government gets a bigger chunk. How exactly are you supposed to start a family/business/practice when your take home pay is no better than someone working in retail as a salesperson (wats more depressing is this person is probably in less debt then you are)?
Optometry school, financially, is no longer worth the cost.
-signed a regretful and worried, pending graduate.

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[socal2014]

Isn't 80k too low?

That's like ~330/day. I think the going rate is $400 which would increase your income to nearly 6 figures.

 

[nc2tarheels]

300 for a car? And you act like that' isn't part of your "income". Let's take a guy that makes 30k a year.

-250 car
-900 rent
-100 insurance
and I don't know the taxes

So i'll estimate that the net income after taxes is 24k
24k-15k in expenses= 9k. That's without the future of "one day" being out of debt from student loans and being able to increase your pay.

This thread is stupid.

 

[Princeod2583]

Maybe 80,000 is too low, but I still believe the pay is not commensurate with the amount of time invested into this profession.

This post may be stupid, that is your opinion. I understand there are costs of living that are expected regardless of any profession, and that these costs reduce your take home pay. But to be in school for the last 4 years, and to graduate with so much debt is disappointing and frightening. You have haven't even considered the costs of having children, getting married, raising a family. At the end of the day, if you calculate the debt you are in, it doesn't seem worthwhile, but hey i am all ears if you disagree, that's how people learn to temper their expectations.

 

[socal2014]

300 for a car? And you act like that' isn't part of your "income". Let's take a guy that makes 30k a year.

-250 car
-900 rent
-100 insurance
and I don't know the taxes

So i'll estimate that the net income after taxes is 24k
24k-15k in expenses= 9k. That's without the future of "one day" being out of debt from student loans and being able to increase your pay.

This thread is stupid.

I am confused by your post.

The $300 figure is quite average for a car payment. In 2003 the average payment was above $400 (http://www.edmunds.com/about/press/...ccording-to-edmundscom.html?articleid=100956&). If you are a doctor, you should be able to afford more than $300/mth for car payments.

Also, the average joe didn't go to school for 8 years, and he probably doesn't have 200k in debt.

Are you suggesting that double the amount of savings earned by an OD making a steady $80k/year, compared to the average joe, is reasonable?

 

[nc2tarheels]

I am confused by your post.

The $300 figure is quite average for a car payment. In 2003 the average payment was above $400 (http://www.edmunds.com/about/press/...ccording-to-edmundscom.html?articleid=100956&). If you are a doctor, you should be able to afford more than $300/mth for car payments.

Also, the average joe didn't go to school for 8 years, and he probably doesn't have 200k in debt.

Are you suggesting that double the amount of savings earned by an OD making a steady $80k/year, compared to the average joe, is reasonable?

I simply put "250" so that it was comparable to the person making 30k. Not comparing to a "doctor".

 

[nc2tarheels]

my point is, most people don't have "extra" income each month. Although it's not ideal, 17k isn't bad. Why not keep driving that pos car that you own, live just like you did in optometry school and try to spend minimally, just as you did in optometry school. Apply that extra money to payments and get out of the debt that you collected during school as soon as possible. I see this far too often, doctors graduate and then try and "reward" themselves and go out and buy nice stuff. Then they wonder why they have no money.

 

[Princeod2583]

If you are in over 200k in student loan debt and you do not pay your loan back in 10 years, paying towards principal is worthless. I looked up the cost of financing a loan based on income based repayment; you end up paying nearly 460 k back on a 200k loan. Since ibr allows affordable monthly payments, you never make a dent in the principal of the loan. your monthly payments are much lower but the trade off is that you pay off interest for the entire time you pay the loan back. If you choose the 10 year repayment, your monthly payment is double to triple the amount; (2-3k per month) and you still pay back nearly 100k in interest on the loan. If you try to pay back the loan payment + principal it will take even more out of your take home pay.
No one said I d go out and buy an expensive car. my reality was that I had to purchase a car in school so i could travel to my externship sites.
To the pre-optometry poster above, live through opto school and let me know how that works, unless you already have?

Anyone with a different outlook, (again this is how we educate ourselves)

 

[nc2tarheels]

I'm a 28 year old NON-traditional student. I have experienced life before going back to school. I have two children and have worked in optical for 10 years, so I'm not your typical 22 year old student that knows nothing about the real world.

 

[JMU07]

Maybe 80,000 is too low, but I still believe the pay is not commensurate with the amount of time invested into this profession.

Try being a veterinarian. Their schooling is the same as ours (actually, I don't even know if they are required to do residencies so it may be more) and they make, what, $60K a year? Just saying.

nc2tarheels is right. you have to live CHEAP during school and for a few years after graduation as well to help pay off loans. I've had the same car since I was 18. I see brand new cars in the SCO student parking lot and seriously don't get it (I know sometimes things happen, cars die, whatever). It's nice not having a car payment.

 

[Princeod2583]

Nctarheels i wasnt taking shots at you. As a responsible 28 year old, dealing with his own finances since he was 16, I understand being a non-traditional student is difficult. Just trying to discuss my thoughts is all.....

 

[nc2tarheels]

Nctarheels i wasnt taking shots at you. As a responsible 28 year old, dealing with his own finances since he was 16, I understand being a non-traditional student is difficult. Just trying to discuss my thoughts is all.....

No offense taken. lol. I was only saying that I'm not some young kid that is unconscious of the things that are going on around me.

 

[socal2014]

If you are in over 200k in student loan debt and you do not pay your loan back in 10 years, paying towards principal is worthless. I looked up the cost of financing a loan based on income based repayment; you end up paying nearly 460 k back on a 200k loan. Since ibr allows affordable monthly payments, you never make a dent in the principal of the loan. your monthly payments are much lower but the trade off is that you pay off interest for the entire time you pay the loan back. If you choose the 10 year repayment, your monthly payment is double to triple the amount; (2-3k per month) and you still pay back nearly 100k in interest on the loan. If you try to pay back the loan payment + principal it will take even more out of your take home pay.
No one said I d go out and buy an expensive car. my reality was that I had to purchase a car in school so i could travel to my externship sites.
To the pre-optometry poster above, live through opto school and let me know how that works, unless you already have?

Anyone with a different outlook, (again this is how we educate ourselves)

I was just saying that a doctor SHOULD be able to spend more on cars, not saying that YOU should be able to.

By the way, is it absolutely necessary to purchase a car during your externships?

 

[eyestrain]

For the life of me I cannot understand why people have such huge friggin' car payments. Even $300 seems crazy to me.

 

[netmag]

Depending on where you work you may also have to pay for your own health insurance too. However, I still think you'd be doing better than the average person unless you just can't find a job at all. Having 17K-20K a year left over after all the necessities isn't exactly doing poorly especially relative to other people.

True the average person doesn't have 200k in debt but many of them also have steep credit debt which is about the worst kind of debt you can be saddled with. Sure there would still be some folks doing better than you even without the fancy degree but on average I would think you'd still be better off than most.

That being said, if ODs aren't getting 6 digits out of school then I might be a bit concerned about that just on principle alone.

 

[KHE]

Say you graduate school in 200k debt, which you probably will be, if not more...
-you get a job for 80,000 straight out of school ....
-your income based repayment is around $900/ month (or aprox 10,800 annually)
-subtract 24,000 for federal taxes
-subtract 5,000 for state taxes
-subtract 1,000 for rent (12,000)
-subtract 300 for car payment (3600)
-subtract 100 for car insurance (1200)
-subtract 500 for food (6000)

$80,000-62,600= 17,400 Wow. That.is.pathetic.

I worked my butt off for 4 years to take home 17k a year?

The worst part? you will be locked into this salary for years to come because you will be paying student loans back for close to 25 years. If your income goes up, the government gets a bigger chunk. How exactly are you supposed to start a family/business/practice when your take home pay is no better than someone working in retail as a salesperson (wats more depressing is this person is probably in less debt then you are)?
Optometry school, financially, is no longer worth the cost.
-signed a regretful and worried, pending graduate.

Where are you getting $24000 in federal taxes for a salary of $80000?

At WORST, a salary of $80000 with a standard deduction and one exemption for yourself results in a federal tax bill of $13550.

 

[Shnurek]

Where are you getting $24000 in federal taxes for a salary of $80000?

At WORST, a salary of $80000 with a standard deduction and one exemption for yourself results in a federal tax bill of $13550.

Yea lol I don't know what this guy is thinking. But in any case the simple rule still stands. If you want to have a good life now you will live a crappy life later and vice versa. So I say, live with your parents if you can, only buy a utilitarian car, work for a few years after college to pay off any undergraduate debt/save for graduate tuition, apply to the lowest tuition schools, and do everything you can to minimize loans. Do you really want people in finance screwing you over like this? If all goes well for me I will graduate with no debt from optometry school. No thanks 6.8% loans.

 

[IndianaOD]

Yea lol I don't know what this guy is thinking. But in any case the simple rule still stands. If you want to have a good life now you will live a crappy life later and vice versa. So I say, live with your parents if you can, only buy a utilitarian car, work for a few years after college to pay off any undergraduate debt/save for graduate tuition, apply to the lowest tuition schools, and do everything you can to minimize loans. Do you really want people in finance screwing you over like this? If all goes well for me I will graduate with no debt from optometry school. No thanks 6.8% loans.

You must have a sugar momma, daddy, or wife. I lived modestly and my wife worked throughout my schooling and I still broke $100,000 and that was over 5 years ago.

 

[Shnurek]

You must have a sugar momma, daddy, or wife. I lived modestly and my wife worked throughout my schooling and I still broke $100,000 and that was over 5 years ago.

Yes I do. Its called living with parents. Most of my friends here in NYC do that because it saves so much on rent. And most people in Europe do the same thing. Americans think they have to move out as fast as possible otherwise they are labeled as losers, virgins etc. I have a girlfriend and have no social problems. I think it is silly social stigma that forces people into debt. Or just the fact that you may be a non-traditional student and/or you are already married. Then it is understandable.

Also I am lucky I got into a school with low tuition and a 30 minute subway ride from me so no need for a car.

 

[socal2014]

Damn, a free ride to grad school. I wish I was spoon fed too

 

[Shnurek]

Damn, a free ride to grad school. I wish I was spoon fed too

^^ Haha if you work hard you play hard, thats how it is yea boiiiii

 

[socal2014]

Lets work hard for that $80,000 salary and $200,000 in debt

 

[mewmewchacha]

my point is, most people don't have "extra" income each month. Although it's not ideal, 17k isn't bad. Why not keep driving that pos car that you own, live just like you did in optometry school and try to spend minimally, just as you did in optometry school. Apply that extra money to payments and get out of the debt that you collected during school as soon as possible. I see this far too often, doctors graduate and then try and "reward" themselves and go out and buy nice stuff. Then they wonder why they have no money.

Agreed on the 'keeping your pos car'. I bought a car before coming to school and am storing it back at home. With the amount of driving I'll be doing in the future, it should still be good to drive when I graduate for another 10-15 years, for sure. I plan on driving my baby to the ground.

Totally thumbs up about the 'reward' thing, too. I have a classmate who is already thinking about what she will buy when she graduates. It's good to dream and imagine, but realistically, little rewards like a small trip somewhere are better. Live frugally throughout school and a bit after your graduation, and you should be fine.

 

[Princeod2583]

Where are you getting $24000 in federal taxes for a salary of $80000?

At WORST, a salary of $80000 with a standard deduction and one exemption for yourself results in a federal tax bill of $13550.

KHE - thanks for the clarification, i thought fed taxes were a lot higher!
how would a 401 k contribution affect that?

For everyone else that is talking mad smack, do you think that I didn't realize it would help to cut costs by living it at home and buying a used car? I don't have an easy life, i have extenuating circumstances that caused me to move out from "home" when I was 18. I don't have a silver spoon or anyone else I can depend upon. I don't seek anyones pity or approval for this revelation, i have put myself through college and grad school through grit, sweat, hard work, and determination and I am damn proud of myself. I am just trying to figure out the costs/benefits of this loan madness. I didn't plan on amassing tons of debt, but when you are on loans since the start, you have no choice.
Shnurek you do realize that you are like one in 150 people who get through optometry school without student loans right? good for you, but its really not possible for everyone.

 

[Shnurek]

I actually worked as a porter and a doorman for many years during school just to save up so I wouldn't have debt. Its all about planning decades ahead of time by being financially prudent. My parents came here as refugees from underneath the iron curtain in eastern europe with NOTHING.

And yes there is a minority of people that come from rich households and they have no worries when it comes to debt or working hard. But I worked hard to do well on the OAT so I could get into the school of my choice.

 

[odieoh]

I worked my butt off for 4 years to take home 17k a year?

/agree with what everyone else has said here, plus the fact that usually when people talk about "take home" pay it refers to what you get in your paycheck after taxes have been taken out. Sure some of it goes out to bills after you "take it home" but your take home pay is a heck of a lot more than 17k.

 

[thecgrblue]

Say you graduate school in 200k debt, which you probably will be, if not more...
-you get a job for 80,000 straight out of school ....
-your income based repayment is around $900/ month (or aprox 10,800 annually)
-subtract 24,000 for federal taxes
-subtract 5,000 for state taxes
-subtract 1,000 for rent (12,000)
-subtract 300 for car payment (3600)
-subtract 100 for car insurance (1200)
-subtract 500 for food (6000)

$80,000-62,600= 17,400 Wow. That.is.pathetic.

I worked my butt off for 4 years to take home 17k a year?

The worst part? you will be locked into this salary for years to come because you will be paying student loans back for close to 25 years. If your income goes up, the government gets a bigger chunk. How exactly are you supposed to start a family/business/practice when your take home pay is no better than someone working in retail as a salesperson (wats more depressing is this person is probably in less debt then you are)?
Optometry school, financially, is no longer worth the cost.
-signed a regretful and worried, pending graduate.

Then what is?

 

[Shnurek]

Then what is?

Being a Veterinarian of course! They do our 4 years of school then make an average of 60k after graduation! Plus internship, plus optional 3-4 year residency and you can increase it to an average of 100k!

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos076.htm#earnings

Point is: if you love what you do it shouldn't really matter as much as people fuss about on these forums.

 

[KHE]

KHE - thanks for the clarification, i thought fed taxes were a lot higher!
how would a 401 k contribution affect that?

What?

So you're basically admitting that you created a posting based on numbers that you're completely clueless about and basically just pulled out of your arse? Why would you do such a thing?

A 401k would reduce your taxable income by whatever amount you contributed.

 

[Princeod2583]

What?

So you're basically admitting that you created a posting based on numbers that you're completely clueless about and basically just pulled out of your arse? Why would you do such a thing?

A 401k would reduce your taxable income by whatever amount you contributed.

Haha no, i didnt just pull it out of my arse, but i was wrong about the figure, i assumed that income tax was around 28 to 30 % of income;

Maybe yesterday wasnt one of my best days, I had a job offer rescinded from me and I guess i took my frustration out, i tend to make things worse than they are, but the post is perfect for sdn since everyone bashes optometry here anyways.

I'll count my blessings tonite.

 

[socal2014]

Then what is?

Opthalmology, but only if you skipped 5 grade levels during primary and secondary high school.

I've read computer science majors make around 80k after 4 years of undergrad...in texas.

 

[KHE]

Haha no, i didnt just pull it out of my arse, but i was wrong about the figure, i assumed that income tax was around 28 to 30 % of income;

Why would you assume something like that? I make a multi-six figure income and my marginal rate last year was 18%. Try the taxcaster feature on the quicken website. It gives you a BASIC tool to play around with different tax scenarios.

 

[socal2014]

Why would you assume something like that? I make a multi-six figure income and my marginal rate last year was 18%. Try the taxcaster feature on the quicken website. It gives you a BASIC tool to play around with different tax scenarios.

obviously small business have a lower tax rate and have many write offs that an IC/employee wouldn't have.

@ 80k, 25-28% seems right.

 

[KHE]

obviously small business have a lower tax rate and have many write offs that an IC/employee wouldn't have.

@ 80k, 25-28% seems right.

Bzzzzzzzzt. Wrong as usual, socal.

Looking at my tax return from 2002, my first year out of school where I made $79213, my marginal rate was 13%.....even LESS than my marginal rate now.

 

[Princeod2583]

obviously small business have a lower tax rate and have many write offs that an IC/employee wouldn't have.

@ 80k, 25-28% seems right.

Thats what I thought too, but KHE has a point. I believe there are standard deductions that you can claim as a single/married taxpayer that reduces your overall tax rate. This is excluding any itemized deductions.....

 

[KHE]

Thats what I thought too, but KHE has a point. I believe there are standard deductions that you can claim as a single/married taxpayer that reduces your overall tax rate. This is excluding any itemized deductions.....

You can't claim both. You claim either the itemized or the standard.

 

[socal2014]

Point is, you only have about 15k of disposable income after 8 years of schooling and ~$150K in debt (might be more). Deductions etc will only save you a small amount of income that would have gone towards taxes, unless you own a practice, which is getting harder and harder.

Sounds lovely!

Heck, some OD's can't crack it, and become high school teachers for a while.

 

[Princeod2583]

Point is, you only have about 15k of disposable income after 8 years of schooling and ~$150K in debt (might be more). Deductions etc will only save you a small amount of income that would have gone towards taxes, unless you own a practice, which is getting harder and harder.

Sounds lovely!

Heck, some OD's can't crack it, and become high school teachers for a while.

You know when I originally posted this, I thought hey all this schooling and debt is worthless. But after taking a few days to cool off and looking back at the process, I really think it is what you make of the situation. 15k of disposable income is more than most people have, heck a lot of people are living paycheck to paycheck and can barely make ends meet; so as long as you can pay the bills and have extra money, complaining should be the last thing to do. Is it a lot debt? yes. Is it a lot schooling? yes. Will you be in debt a long time? depends on how you choose to handle it. But it is what you make of it, that is truly the way i thought about this profession before I made this spur of the moment post. We really don't know what the future holds either, this profession is ever changing; hopefully for the better, but that is up to us future od's to move the profession forward...

 

[socal2014]

You know when I originally posted this, I thought hey all this schooling and debt is worthless. But after taking a few days to cool off and looking back at the process, I really think it is what you make of the situation. 15k of disposable income is more than most people have, heck a lot of people are living paycheck to paycheck and can barely make ends meet; so as long as you can pay the bills and have extra money, complaining should be the last thing to do. Is it a lot debt? yes. Is it a lot schooling? yes. Will you be in debt a long time? depends on how you choose to handle it. But it is what you make of it, that is truly the way i thought about this profession before I made this spur of the moment post. We really don't know what the future holds either, this profession is ever changing; hopefully for the better, but that is up to us future od's to move the profession forward...

Good for you, but your original post still stands, because lets face it, its true.

You mention most people live paycheck to paycheck, but have those individuals gone through rigorous training and accumulated 200k in debt, because of the schooling?

I think it is a big deal that a graduate degree in Optometry, which after putting you in excessive debt, equivalent to a starter mortgage, only gives you a small amount of disposable income after all things are taken care of.

But that's all good and dandy, at least OD's aren't living paycheck to paycheck, like the bachelor grads, who have a house, a couple of nice cars, children etc etc.

My intentions are not to upset you OP, or discourage pre-opts. Just telling it like it is. Yeah, you get some posters here who are successful, but they are in the minority. Most OD's generate their revenue from optical sales/contact lenses, but now that coastal contacts among other online entities are here, most ODs can say bye bye to a hefty paycheck, which was the norm a couple years back.

You don't see dentists, MD's, Pharmacists, Podiatrists, Vets having their profits marginalized because of online companies.

 

[Princeod2583]

Good for you, but your original post still stands, because lets face it, its true.

You mention most people live paycheck to paycheck, but have those individuals gone through rigorous training and accumulated 200k in debt, because of the schooling?

I think it is a big deal that a graduate degree in Optometry, which after putting you in excessive debt, equivalent to a starter mortgage, only gives you a small amount of disposable income after all things are taken care of.

But that's all good and dandy, at least OD's aren't living paycheck to paycheck, like the bachelor grads, who have a house, a couple of nice cars, children etc etc.

My intentions are not to upset you OP, or discourage pre-opts. Just telling it like it is. Yeah, you get some posters here who are successful, but they are in the minority. Most OD's generate their revenue from optical sales/contact lenses, but now that coastal contacts among other online entities are here, most ODs can say bye bye to a hefty paycheck, which was the norm a couple years back.

You don't see dentists, MD's, Pharmacists, Podiatrists, Vets having their profits marginalized because of online companies.

Agreed to some extent. However, there were a lot of people who went to undergrad and graduated with their "almighty" bachelors degree that are now stuck. No job, thousands in debt, with no end in sight. How many kids graduate with a major in biology, psychology, sociology? Kids end up graduating with degrees that can be/are worthless. Where do they turn? They are in thousands of dollars of debt, possibly from private loans, and they can have no job, a poor paying job, or a job not related to their field, with no relief in sight. Not everyone graduates from undergrad with a finance/computer degree with a high paying job. And some these kids are so misinformed that they end up going to private schools that cost as much as graduate schools.
From what I have seen/heard, most don't default on their optometry loans, they just end up paying them for a long time, which is the frustrating part.

If you compare my original post to a kid graduating undergrad with say 50,000 in income, they are not much better off. Still have living expenses, still have loans, and even less disposable income than what I originally was complaining about.

 

[argentrans37]

I bolded 3 things that I will have to respectfully disagree with.

#1 - Does going to 8 years of school after high school graduation really entitle a person to anything? I cannot stand when people talk that way, because people get paid (for the most part) proportional to how much money they bring in for their company. Should the government pay Optometrists $160k just because of the "rigorous training" they went through? Or where should this money that we "deserve" come from? No amount of schooling guarantees that we will be rich without working for it. Get a Ph.D. in American Ethnic Studies, see how that works.

#2 - In the real world, something like 70%-80% of recent bachelor's degree holders are the very definition of living paycheck to paycheck. For a recent college graduate to have a house, nice cars, etc means nothing except that they are either: a) trust fund baby, b) in debt far surpassing 200k, or c) graduates of petroleum engineering, investment banking, or some other degree program with graduates that deserve their paycheck just as much as ODs. People who talk as if any competent person with a bachelor's degree is holding the golden ticket are, to be honest, extremely out of touch. In this day and age, a professional degree and title is no guarantee, but it is the closest thing out there.

#3 - I am no expert on this subject, at all, so I might be way off. But I have certainly heard a lot of talk about ordering prescription meds off the internet, which probably won't help pharmacists any. As far as MDs, they aren't competing with the internet, but it seems like every day PAs and NPs get one step closer to being, for all intents and purposes, "real" doctors.

Good for you, but your original post still stands, because lets face it, its true.

You mention most people live paycheck to paycheck, but have those individuals gone through rigorous training and accumulated 200k in debt, because of the schooling?

I think it is a big deal that a graduate degree in Optometry, which after putting you in excessive debt, equivalent to a starter mortgage, only gives you a small amount of disposable income after all things are taken care of.

But that's all good and dandy, at least OD's aren't living paycheck to paycheck, like the bachelor grads, who have a house, a couple of nice cars, children etc etc.

My intentions are not to upset you OP, or discourage pre-opts. Just telling it like it is. Yeah, you get some posters here who are successful, but they are in the minority. Most OD's generate their revenue from optical sales/contact lenses, but now that coastal contacts among other online entities are here, most ODs can say bye bye to a hefty paycheck, which was the norm a couple years back.

You don't see dentists, MD's, Pharmacists, Podiatrists, Vets having their profits marginalized because of online companies.

 

[thecgrblue]

Good for you, but your original post still stands, because lets face it, its true.

You mention most people live paycheck to paycheck, but have those individuals gone through rigorous training and accumulated 200k in debt, because of the schooling?

I think it is a big deal that a graduate degree in Optometry, which after putting you in excessive debt, equivalent to a starter mortgage, only gives you a small amount of disposable income after all things are taken care of.

But that's all good and dandy, at least OD's aren't living paycheck to paycheck, like the bachelor grads, who have a house, a couple of nice cars, children etc etc.

My intentions are not to upset you OP, or discourage pre-opts. Just telling it like it is. Yeah, you get some posters here who are successful, but they are in the minority. Most OD's generate their revenue from optical sales/contact lenses, but now that coastal contacts among other online entities are here, most ODs can say bye bye to a hefty paycheck, which was the norm a couple years back.

You don't see dentists, MD's, Pharmacists, Podiatrists, Vets having their profits marginalized because of online companies.

I'm sorry...but a lot of the stuff you say is pretty whack.

 

[socal2014]

I bolded 3 things that I will have to respectfully disagree with.

#1 - Does going to 8 years of school after high school graduation really entitle a person to anything? I cannot stand when people talk that way, because people get paid (for the most part) proportional to how much money they bring in for their company. Should the government pay Optometrists $160k just because of the "rigorous training" they went through? Or where should this money that we "deserve" come from? No amount of schooling guarantees that we will be rich without working for it. Get a Ph.D. in American Ethnic Studies, see how that works.

#2 - In the real world, something like 70%-80% of recent bachelor's degree holders are the very definition of living paycheck to paycheck. For a recent college graduate to have a house, nice cars, etc means nothing except that they are either: a) trust fund baby, b) in debt far surpassing 200k, or c) graduates of petroleum engineering, investment banking, or some other degree program with graduates that deserve their paycheck just as much as ODs. People who talk as if any competent person with a bachelor's degree is holding the golden ticket are, to be honest, extremely out of touch. In this day and age, a professional degree and title is no guarantee, but it is the closest thing out there.

#3 - I am no expert on this subject, at all, so I might be way off. But I have certainly heard a lot of talk about ordering prescription meds off the internet, which probably won't help pharmacists any. As far as MDs, they aren't competing with the internet, but it seems like every day PAs and NPs get one step closer to being, for all intents and purposes, "real" doctors.

In re:#1, what I meant to say is the lost income one would have earned in 8 years.

Not counting promotions, raises due to experience etc etc, 8 years @ $35,000 = ~$300K. The OD would be in 200k debt after 8 years on the other hand.

 

[socal2014]

I'm sorry...but a lot of the stuff you say is pretty whack.

I'm sorry....but you are in denial, like most of the kids on these forums who think optometry is a great profession when some random poster talks about his lucky "success."

 

[thecgrblue]

I'm sorry....but you are in denial, like most of the kids on these forums who think optometry is a great profession when some random poster talks about his lucky "success."

Nope, sorry. Perfectly well aware of what the profession holds. Go to ODwire if you want everyone to agree with you on the outlook.

 

[Meibomian SxN]

....$80,000-62,600= 17,400 Wow. That.is.pathetic.

I worked my butt off for 4 years to take home 17k a year?

The worst part? you will be locked into this salary for years to come because you will be paying student loans back for close to 25 years. If your income goes up, the government gets a bigger chunk. How exactly are you supposed to start a family/business/practice when your take home pay is no better than someone working in retail as a salesperson (wats more depressing is this person is probably in less debt then you are)?
Optometry school, financially, is no longer worth the cost.
-signed a regretful and worried, pending graduate.

You are now seeing the reality of the profession. The profession has made several turns for the worse and our leadership currently has their own agenda.

I was lied to in school just like you, but at this point it does not make sense to me to refinance loans and invest another $250K + interest ($500K total) for an MD degree. So I am making the best of this career, as bleek as it may be...

I would suggest what others have already said: Tighten up spending for 1-2 years, get your debts to a manageable point and go from there.

 

[KHE]

Point is, you only have about 15k of disposable income after 8 years of schooling and ~$150K in debt (might be more). Deductions etc will only save you a small amount of income that would have gone towards taxes, unless you own a practice, which is getting harder and harder.

Sounds lovely!

Heck, some OD's can't crack it, and become high school teachers for a while.

As usual, socal is wrong.

At WORST, a person making $80000k will pay $13500 in federal income taxes, $4522 in FICA taxes and $3796 in state income taxes. (The state calculation is for Connecticut which is where I live and one of the highest states for state income tax rate.)

That adds up to after tax income of $58182.

A 30 year repayment on student loans of $200k at 6.8% is a payment of $1303 per month or $15636 per year which leaves after student loan payments, a disposable income of $42546 or $3545 per month which is nearly three times more than socal the blabbering fool is claiming.

Now people are going to say you shouldn't pay student loans off over 30 years. That may or may not be true. But the thing is, by taking the 30 year repayment plan, you have the OPTION of paying it off early if you so choose to or, perhaps using that extra monthly cash flow to do things like.....oh.....I don't know.....start or buy that practice you want? Hmmmmmmmmmm.

 

[thecgrblue]

As usual, socal is wrong.

At WORST, a person making $80000k will pay $13500 in federal income taxes, $4522 in FICA taxes and $3796 in state income taxes. (The state calculation is for Connecticut which is where I live and one of the highest states for state income tax rate.)

That adds up to after tax income of $58182.

A 30 year repayment on student loans of $200k at 6.8% is a payment of $1303 per month or $15636 per year which leaves after student loan payments, a disposable income of $42546 or $3545 per month which is nearly three times more than socal the blabbering fool is claiming.

Now people are going to say you shouldn't pay student loans off over 30 years. That may or may not be true. But the thing is, by taking the 30 year repayment plan, you have the OPTION of paying it off early if you so choose to or, perhaps using that extra monthly cash flow to do things like.....oh.....I don't know.....start or buy that practice you want? Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Are there some lenders that cap the amount you can pay montly to limit you from paying off too fast? Sounds absurd to me, but I wouldn't be surprised with some of the agencies.

 

[IndianaOD]

As usual, socal is wrong.

At WORST, a person making $80000k will pay $13500 in federal income taxes, $4522 in FICA taxes and $3796 in state income taxes. (The state calculation is for Connecticut which is where I live and one of the highest states for state income tax rate.)

That adds up to after tax income of $58182.

A 30 year repayment on student loans of $200k at 6.8% is a payment of $1303 per month or $15636 per year which leaves after student loan payments, a disposable income of $42546 or $3545 per month which is nearly three times more than socal the blabbering fool is claiming.

Now people are going to say you shouldn't pay student loans off over 30 years. That may or may not be true. But the thing is, by taking the 30 year repayment plan, you have the OPTION of paying it off early if you so choose to or, perhaps using that extra monthly cash flow to do things like.....oh.....I don't know.....start or buy that practice you want? Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Why are we discussing only Federal Income taxes? There is quite a bit more on top of this. Plus if you are self employed and contracting for other ODs you get up to another 15% hack job.

 

[socal2014]

disposable income is income you have left over after you have accounted for all necessities, such as rent, food, car payments, clothes, cell phone payments, television payments, payments for child care, health insurance, car insurance etc etc....a lot of expenses need to be considered here.

After these are taken care of, you have roughly 10-15k to play with on a 80K salary. some individuals might have more disposable income left, if they continue to live like students, while others might have much less, if they decide to live like an actual doctor.