Reapplicant: Dream Deferred

[drMED1234]

Hello-

I am writing because I am in need of some guidance and encouragement. I just got done crying my eyes out after hearing from my mother that the last school I was waiting on declined me . My dreams are deferred but not broken, I still desperately want to be that doctor that I know I can be. I was wondering if any of you know of any post-bac programs that would help me improve my MCAT score.

Profile
Minority female
GPA: 3.5 (honor's program in school with Dean's list each semester)
MCAT 25 ( I never took a course prep class because I do not have the money and it bothers me that in order to do well on the MCAT one needs to take a prep course... what about those who can't afford it???) I studied with the KAPLAN Books and ExamKrackers

I have done plenty of research and my course grades are excellent. I know that it is my MCAT that is holding me back. At this point my two options I think are to find a post-bac program that can help me improve my MCAT or get a job (related to my biology degree) and just take a MCAT course prep class.

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[ShyRem]

Well, a few thoughts.
1. You don't need an MCAT prep course to do well. Plenty of folks do quite well without one.
2. A 3.5 is average.
3. A 25 MCAT is a problem if you are set on MD schools.
4. How are your ECs?
5. Arrange a meeting with a med school admissions dean or two - ones that you applied to this year - and ask them how to improve your application.

Perhaps you don't need a post-bacc. Have you considered DO schools? If you study your MCAT materials, take practice exams (timed!), get a good QBank and use it extensively, retake the MCAT, and reapply EARLY EARLY EARLY this coming application cycle to both MD and DO schools you might do ok. Most of the time it's the test taking strategies that trips folks up on the MCAT, not the material itself. And apply BROADLY. In the meantime, get a job doing something medically related.

 

[PinkIvy08]

I agree with the above advice. I'd schedule an exit interview with the schools you applied to rather than hop into an unnecessary post-bacc that'll cost loads of money. It really isn't the end of the world. I was in your shoes around this time last year (well, a few months later, but you get the drift) and re-applied early and got some early acceptances.

Questions I have for you:
- What month were you complete at the schools you applied to?
- Did you apply to a diverse range of schools?
- is your science GPA about equal to your cumulative GPA?
- How are the ECs? (leadership, clinical experience, etc)

And yes, a solid MCAT score can be achieved without an expensive course. There are even some summer programs that include shadowing, an MCAT prep course, and other clinical experiences. Depending on your schedule, you might want to look into those...

 

[drMED1234]

EC:
Pre-Health Club 2008-2009
Officer: MCAT Coordinator
Pre-Health club: Minority Interest Group 2009-2010
Officer: Recorder
Peer Mentor Program 2007-2008
National Society of Collegiate Scholars 2008-2009
Alternative Spring Break trip: Guatemala
Focus on medical services
Stop Hunger Now - Service NC State 2006 and 2007
Crisis Control Ministries Volunteer
Volunteer at local hospital (Wake Forest University Baptist Medical Center)
Operating Room
Red Cross Blood Center Volunteer
Samaritan Volunteer at local soup kitchens
UNC Children's Hospital volunteer
Undergraduate Honors Research – North Carolina State University (Unpaid) 08/2009
MED Program – UNC Chapel Hill School of Medicine Summer 2009
Summer internship at Wake Forest University Baptist Medical Center Summer 2008
Family Medicine

Employment:
University Housing at North Carolina State University 08/2007-Present
Residential Advisor (RA)

I applied to as many schools as I could afford (10), which were all on the east coast and none were DO schools. I finished my primaries in August and all my secondaries in late October. My science GPA is a 3.3 I believe.

 

[Mister T]

Hello-

I am writing because I am in need of some guidance and encouragement. I just got done crying my eyes out after hearing from my mother that the last school I was waiting on declined me . My dreams are deferred but not broken, I still desperately want to be that doctor that I know I can be. I was wondering if any of you know of any post-bac programs that would help me improve my MCAT score.

Profile
Minority female
GPA: 3.5 (honor's program in school with Dean's list each semester)
MCAT 25 ( I never took a course prep class because I do not have the money and it bothers me that in order to do well on the MCAT one needs to take a prep course... what about those who can't afford it???) I studied with the KAPLAN Books and ExamKrackers

I have done plenty of research and my course grades are excellent. I know that it is my MCAT that is holding me back. At this point my two options I think are to find a post-bac program that can help me improve my MCAT or get a job (related to my biology degree) and just take a MCAT course prep class.

Dude, suck it up. I can't afford a $2000 class either. My GPA is a 3.35 and I'm asian and I'm considered the "Bad minority." Talk about discrimination!

Do you know why you screwed up on the MCAT? Because you didn't study enough and you didn't use the right books.

I used EK and Kaplan before and they sucked. They won't cause your noggin' to start thinking. Kaplan is the de facto worst books imo. EK is only good if you already understand/remember everything superwell.

Read the MCAT Stickied thread that SN2ED wrote.

Basically, you need the TPR Hyperlearning Books, the TBR books (just the physics and gen chem books), EK Bio, all the EK 1001s, and you'll be set. And skip the TBR Orgo book, it's a piece of ****.

You know how much buying all those books cost me?

$250 for the TPRH books + 90 for TBR books + 30 for EK Bio + $50 for the EK 100s (used) = $420 (GREAT NUMBER BY THE WAY!)

You can't find $420 from somewhere? Can't get a job giving you about $8 dollars an hour (AFTER TAXES So more like 10/hour) for about 52 hours?

If you dedicate a good 400-500 hours on the MCAT, you can get it up to a 29-40 if you put your heart and soul into it.

No SMP or specialized post bac is going to help you because your MCAT is weak. Don't waste your money on those expensive programs because not only are they ridiculously expensive (they'll set you back 50K), it's going to be even harder to get As in those classes, and it won't even boost your undergrad GPA (because they won't count for undergrad gpa, just grad. school which doesn't matter SADLY).

Take a bunch of classes at an easy community college/state school and cherry pick easy classes as much as possible to boost the GPA. No one on SDN will tell you this but this is the best way it is done.

Why?

This is comign from someone who learned the cruel and cold way that taking challenging difficult classes don't mean anything to teh admissino committees. They will not care if you took advanced thermodynamics or whatever and get a B if Johnny Appleseed is getting an A in upper level psych classes. All they care about is GPA and MCAT.

In any case, get the books, stop whining about how you can't afford the class, there are those like myself who are in a worse position, and I assume you're in America so you're not at least starving in Africa.

And don't worry if you "lose" a year two three or even four before going to medical school.

Going to medical school right after college is overrated anyways. Enjoy life and freedom in your youth before you go fat, bald, and miserable (yeah I know you're a girl) because you ended up never doing anything else for a change.

 

[coreankim]

Mister T - Many of your points are very valid.

However, the way you deliver your advice needs a bit of work. I don't think you need to be so harsh and bitter when telling someone to work harder.

 

[FluffyRabbit]

I wouldn't bother with a postbac, it's not the GPA that's really holding you back. Sure, the improvement would be nice, but as you've mentioned, it's really expensive. If you're having trouble applying to more than 10 schools and can't afford a prep class, dropping 40K for a postbac just sounds totally ridiculous.

Instead, I would devote some time to the MCAT and get a part time job to pay the bills. Your ECs look pretty decent, with a MCAT score >30 you should be fine next cycle.

You could probably buy some used MCAT books off other students for cheap. I didn't use a MCAT prep class either and I did fine, ie. >35. Personally, I think those classes are really overrated - I could have afforded one, but I didn't think it was worth it. I wanted to spend more time on my problem areas, and I wanted to study on a more flexible schedule. You just need to find the discipline to study by yourself without an instructor pushing you in class, and if you want this enough you'll do it! Good luck

 

[PinkIvy08]

Well, your ECs sound solid, so that's good. Make sure to keep up some form of clinical experience during this next year (I was asked at interviews this year why I didn't...slight oversight on my part).

This next application cycle, get things done as early as possible. That means rework your personal statement, have others look it over, and have it basically ready to go by the end of May. Submitting your AMCAS the day it opens in June (since you've already filled it out before, you have that as an advantage!). After your semester ends, I'd go thru SDN with the list of schools you plan on applying to, pre-write all secondaries and literally turn them around within 24 hours of receiving them. Last year, I applied and was complete at most places around Oct/Nov - BIG mistake. This year, I was complete everywhere as early as possible (i.e. July for most schools)...I truly believe this makes all the difference in the world.

I'm not sure which East Coast schools you applied to, but many of them can be tough to get into. I'd broaden my selection a bit and maybe look into including a few DO schools. (I didn't, so take this point with a grain of salt lol) Just make sure your list isn't too top-heavy.

I know money is tight, especially in this economy. I also know that this application process favors those with money. Fair? No. But, it's the way things are. One way to make some spare $$$ is if your school has a business school and a research intensive psych dept...both usually run research experiments where they recruit undergrads...pays is anywhere from $5-$100 depending on what you do. You can save that money in a jar to go toward apps. And do FAP! Also, I don't know if you want to do this but I currently work about 3 jobs. Yeah, it sucks, but you got to do what you got to do. True, other applicants might not necessarily have that hurdle to overcome, but who cares about them? This is about you! You do what you need to do to succeed. If that means working multiple jobs or taking out a loan to apply/take a prep course, then do it.

But yeah, chin up! Just bump that MCAT up and schedule a few exit interviews with schools.

 

[faith2]

first of all I am proud of you for wanting to still follow your dream.
The MCAT is tricky you could go up, but you can go down as well luckily most schools will take the best from each section. Is your personal statement and LOR's good? Your EC's appear to be good. I would retake the MCAT I would also consider DO you are from a state that does not have a lot of state schools, and OOS maybe difficult but not impossible. Please apply early next cycle

 

[Stixman28]

seems like almost everyone missed you say that you had a sGPA of 3.3

I think this DOES need a post bac to increase. don't just take easy classes like mr t said. take classes that count towards the math, chem, physics or bio. this is the only way to increase your science gpa.

 

[just one]

Take a look at the averages (MCAT, GPA) of the schools you applied to. How do you compare? Best advice was already given out, meet with the schools that denied you. Many will tell you exactly where to improve. Obviously the MCAT stands out as well as the GPA, but there are some schools that have lower averages. Maybe you need to select one of those schools (wherever it may be).

 

[starseeker]

Mister T - Many of your points are very valid.

However, the way you deliver your advice needs a bit of work. I don't think you need to be so harsh and bitter when telling someone to work harder.

I have to agree with this post. Mr. T you need to work on your tone the OP was just looking for a little encouragement.

 

[just one]

I have to agree with this post. Mr. T you need to work on your tone the OP was just looking for a little encouragement.

I don't know.... The REAL Mr T was not a nice guy! I pity the fool!

 

[Mister T]

seems like almost everyone missed you say that you had a sGPA of 3.3

I think this DOES need a post bac to increase. don't just take easy classes like mr t said. take classes that count towards the math, chem, physics or bio. this is the only way to increase your science gpa.

Yes, because taking even harder classes where they make it even more difficult to get As makes a lot of sense.

It's a numbers game.

Obviously the OP should not just take all 100 level science classes, but should try to find a lot of 300 and 400 classes that look "difficult" but really are not. In other words, take easy classes. Isn't that a no brainer?

Doing an SMP won't make that a lot better and the 50 hour weeks of studying that you would do just to bust a B in those programs is better spent on maximizing the MCAT which can be done.

If you go the SMP route, you'll end up with a useless master's degree, working as a lab tech at min. wage, and with 40-70k in debt.

If you can't manage or obtain 400-500 dollars, then you're going to have bigger troubles if you try a master's program (which won't even boost your undergrad GPA). Remember, these programs are not guaranteed and are highly competitive.

You're better off doing an informal post bacc that is low cost and effective through a mixture of community college and state college classes if possible.

This message has been brought to you by the letter T.

 

[faith2]

you are right about the GPA, sorry did overlook it

seems like almost everyone missed you say that you had a sGPA of 3.3

I think this DOES need a post bac to increase. don't just take easy classes like mr t said. take classes that count towards the math, chem, physics or bio. this is the only way to increase your science gpa.

 

[faith2]

i have a SMP, and I believe it contributed to me getting in, and it was not useless while I improved my apps i used the MS to get a higher salary as a teacher. You need to take difficult classes one it shows that you are capable of higher order thinking, and they can help you in medical school. yes it is a numbers game what works for one may not work for someone else. According to the stats of second time MCAT takers numbers do not improve dramatically for most people. The stats are in the AAMC website. I am just saying improve all aspects of your applications so any negatives will be overshadowed by positives

Yes, because taking even harder classes where they make it even more difficult to get As makes a lot of sense.

It's a numbers game.

Obviously the OP should not just take all 100 level science classes, but should try to find a lot of 300 and 400 classes that look "difficult" but really are not. In other words, take easy classes. Isn't that a no brainer?

Doing an SMP won't make that a lot better and the 50 hour weeks of studying that you would do just to bust a B in those programs is better spent on maximizing the MCAT which can be done.

If you go the SMP route, you'll end up with a useless master's degree, working as a lab tech at min. wage, and with 40-70k in debt.

If you can't manage or obtain 400-500 dollars, then you're going to have bigger troubles if you try a master's program (which won't even boost your undergrad GPA). Remember, these programs are not guaranteed and are highly competitive.

You're better off doing an informal post bacc that is low cost and effective through a mixture of community college and state college classes if possible.

This message has been brought to you by the letter T.

 

[Mister T]

i have a SMP, and I believe it contributed to me getting in, and it was not useless while I improved my apps i used the MS to get a higher salary as a teacher. You need to take difficult classes one it shows that you are capable of higher order thinking, and they can help you in medical school. yes it is a numbers game what works for one may not work for someone else. According to the stats of second time MCAT takers numbers do not improve dramatically for most people. The stats are in the AAMC website. I am just saying improve all aspects of your applications so any negatives will be overshadowed by positives

There will aways be kids who get in with these programs, I don't deny that, but I'm saying that the competition is even higher and the difficulty is harder than even undergrad upper level bio classes.

Why go through the trouble of these expensive programs when A) the OP is already poor B) there is absolutely no guarantee C) the competition is even harder D) it doesn't even boost undergraduate GPA as it's considered "grad gpa" which for all intensive purposes is ignored by med. school admissions.

It's just not worth the risk imo. For some individuals, yes, t hey'll make it but they're the exception and you can't rely on that.

To count on being in the top of the program, or getting As is not guaranteed at all.

Any money that went down for splunking on the expensive master's program basically means that any pay that you get with a higher salary has to go towards the debt from the master's which would take a few years anyways (and at that point, if you're REALLY into going into medicine you'd realize the opportunity costs of waiting so long and you'd probably go to a DO or Carribbean school instead).

Higher level bio classes from what I've seen and what anyone will tell you are not "higher order" thinking. They're just more details and memorization. Basically pure grunt work.

The stats are in the AAMC website. I am just saying improve all aspects of your applications so any negatives will be overshadowed by positives

Stats are meaningless when it comes to the individual. If you showed the statistics for the SMP programs, the %s that get into MD schools (which the OP is clearly trying to do seeing as he/she didn't apply to any DO schools), is maybe 10-15 kids out of a class of 100? The statistics they show for thee programs are not that great (they'll boat higher percentages going to medical school but a lot of them end up in DO or Caribbean schools).

All I'm saying is that rather than spend 50-60 hours a week on an expensive SMP program that has no guarantees, spend those 50-60 hours a week on the MCAT for 3-6 months, use the right books (like I said EK and Kaplan SUCK BALLS), do enough practice material, take a bunch of undergrad classes in bio that are preferably easy (if they are upper level bio classes and you can get OLD exams that's GREAT) it'll make your life a lot easier.

And don't get me wrong, hard work always trumps everything else when it comes to health care. It's a field where hard work >>>>>> intelligence unlike physics/math for instance. Some people will study 60 hours a week and can never get past a C in some difficult classes, others can spend 3-4 because they just "get it." This isn't the case in medicine where hard work >>>>>> intelligence.

But it's better to take the safe road (the path of least resistance), to get into your ultimate goal.

too long didn't read for op: My strong advice is to put more time into the MCAT for 3-6 months, drop everything else and just focus on that. Maybe get a part time jbo for 15-20 hours but no more. Once you're done with the MCAT, start thinking about doing "informal" postbacc "grade booster classes." Your gpa is border line (3.5 with a 3.3) , so if you got that total up to a 3.6 cum/3.4 science + 30/31/32 MCAT you'll be in good shape. Take a combo of easy lower level and upper level science classes that are easy (of course you might find that there ARE NO easy professors at a college, but you should look hard). Get old exams from kids who took the class before you i.e. say someone is taking biochem this spring. Well, you go to that class, ask some kid for the exams, to save them for you or whatever, and use them when you sign up next time.

I had a biochem class where I did this and the professor just ended up repeating the same old exams from the year before with some very minor numerical changes.

Also for immunology, I chose an adjunct who had a reputation for being a slacker and he gave us open book tests that we could collaborate on. You know how much I studied for that 300 level class? Maybe 3-4 hours before the test.

You know what I got in that class? An A. You know what the kids who spent 20 hours a week in the other section with the other professor got? Bs on average.

Yeah you may say I didn't learn anything, but you know what the admission committee is going to say? Great job, you truly excelled in this class.

They don't know and for all practical purposes they don't care so long as you don't say to them it was a joke lol.

Learn how the game works and you'll be in medical school sooner than you know it.

Edit: Mister T realizes the sad predicament how these "loopholes" work and doesn't like it, but frankly the system is not equalized whatsover thus standardized exams are the only real way to test a student's understanding. Thus, if more people start playing this game right, maybe the AAMC will pick up on this and put less emphasis on GPA and more on extracurriculars and the MCAT. Kind of like how law school does you know?

 

[faith2]

It's just not worth the risk imo. For some individuals, yes, t hey'll make it but they're the exception and you can't rely on that. But thinking you can get a 30 on the MCAT is not a risk though? The GPA and MCAT is looked at and some schools have cut offs.

I agree with the no guarantee of getting all A's in SMP, and really I think you are right about the DO option. Alot of other things you said are good some not so good but to much reading to comment on every point.

Good Luck OP

 

[Mister T]

But thinking you can get a 30 on the MCAT is not a risk though? The GPA and MCAT is looked at and some schools have cut offs.[/B]

Well you're right that everything in life is a risk. But studying for a lot for 3-6 months at the intensity that you would with an SMP is not only financially wise, but it has a much greater yield. And besides, her GPA is not her REAL problem, it's her low MCAT score.

I mean the MCAT can be difficult don't get me wrong, but it sounds like the OP didn't study correctly partially because he/she didn't study the right materials (EK and Kaplan suck, OP use The Princeton Review, and The Berkeley Review, EK Bio and ALL the EK 1001s), didn't study enough, or didn't study the "right way."

Everyone I've seen ranging from "low iq" to "high iq" people have all been able to get at least a 30 as long as they put the required time necessary for it. I'm talking about foreigners even who didn't even speak English as their first language as well!

Every exam has a finite amount of knowledge that is tested and the MCAT is no exception to that rule. It will only test the same things in a limited number of permutations. Fortunately, it's not like the USMLE Part 1 which can draw from a practically infinite amount of information!

If the OP spent 300-600 hours over the course of 2-6 months or whatever, carefully sticks to a well-designed plan and strategy, I'm confident that her MCAT will be better. Some things just take a little longer to click than others. My strong advice is that she should closely follow the MCAT forum here, read up through the different threads, read SN2Ed's stickied thread in the MCAT forum, and dedicate the time to it.

If it still doesn't improve after that much daily exposure and practice then maybe she isn't cut out for medicine then? Unless she wants to go in a "less desired" specialty like internal medicine or whatever, than Caribbean or DO is more than fine, but it sounds like her heart is set on American MD schools (which is my goal too).

Her grades are borderline acceptable, but with a 29,30, or 31 and a couple of "grade booster" classes, she'll be in tip top condition.

 

[rbnsafsadgf]

How many schools did you apply to? Any interviews?

How's your personal statement? Your EC's seem good, but you gotta tell a nice, concise narrative of some kind, rather than a laundry list of what you have been doing (as was presented in your second post). [I am sure that you knew that already, but you get the point.]

Your MCAT score is holding you back. The GPA is OK. You need something to grab an adcom's attention: a great PS, GPA, or MCAT.

Here's a plan: take a year off and work on your app by doing:
1) study and retake the MCAT (at least a 28, preferably a 30)
2) get a part-time job that is medically or research related to support yourself
3) continue an EC or two
4) start having other people look over your PS
5) take a few classes, if you have time, and bump that GPA a bit

If money is an issue applying, check out the FAP: http://www.aamc.org/students/applying/fap/ . Apply sooner than later.

EDIT: you could probably get this all done by June even and apply this next cycle. A SMP isn't what you need because your grades aren't half bad.
EDIT #2: I know being rejected sucks. Maybe spend a few weeks having fun with your friends and family before you start think about this stuff again. Good luck.

 

[Mister T]

How many schools did you apply to? Any interviews?

How's your personal statement? Your EC's seem good, but you gotta tell a nice, concise narrative of some kind, rather than a laundry list of what you have been doing (as was presented in your second post). [I am sure that you knew that already, but you get the point.]

Your MCAT score is holding you back. The GPA is OK. You need something to grab an adcom's attention: a great PS, GPA, or MCAT.

Here's a plan: take a year off and work on your app by doing:
1) study and retake the MCAT (at least a 28, preferably a 30)
2) get a part-time job that is medically or research related to support yourself
3) continue an EC or two
4) start having other people look over your PS
5) take a few classes, if you have time, and bump that GPA a bit

EDIT: you could probably get this all done by June even and apply this next cycle. A SMP isn't what you need because your grades aren't half bad.
EDIT #2: I know being rejected sucks. Maybe spend a few weeks having fun with your friends and family before you start think about this stuff again. Good luck.

Only thing I would do different is just take these next few months easy and just focus on the MCAT, maybe some low intensity ECS for some variety and a very low commitment part time job (5-10 hours a week but no more).

She can still submit her application this summer, then take classes over the summer (once she's done with the MCAT), and then update her transcripts at the end of her summer classes.

That's what I'm doing actually (just using this semester to study for the MCAT, not working, doing some other side projects on the side, one easy credit for funsies, and chillin' out maxin' relaxin' all cool playin' some bball outside of the school...).

I have a 3.35 overall (engineering ftl), with a 32R MCAT (studied haphazardly for a month), and I started studying In January and have until May. I'm averaging 35-40s right now, and I feel pretty solid and I attribute it to my free time to do whatever I want. I never feel "burnt out" or rushed to study, and my anxiety is at an all time low. It also helps that I live at home so that I don't pay for rent for the time being (though I help out with other things around the house) and it's also nice to be able to have the two most supportive people in the world constantly reinforcing my drive and focus (like when my mom tells me to stop playing video games or I'm going to fail and die a miserable lonely death heh heh)

Once I'm done with the MCAT on May 1st, and/or June 17th if I have to retake, I will begin summer classes on June 1st or so and try to take maybe 18-21 credits over the summer. Those credits (hopefully As if everything goes out alright), will boost the GPA up a little to 3.4, and med. schools will see those by the time interviews come around. And I believe a 34 or a 35 with a 3.4 gpa should be good for MD schools I'm sure. Of course, the 34 or 35 is not guaranteed, but I'm prepared to take it three times this summer if necessary to minimize all doubt.

Also, not sure if anyone knows this but would classes next fall affect this summer's application cycle? Like if they "boosted" the grades, would this be updated in time for interviews and any accepted/rejected decisions?

 

[faith2]

I hope to hear from you after your 3 to 6 months of MCAT studying. Ihope that something works for you because we all deserve a shot. I am jus curious about the schools that you applied to and how wour application looked because the MCAT is low but not horrible

 

[Mister T]

I hope to hear from you after your 3 to 6 months of MCAT studying. Ihope that something works for you because we all deserve a shot. I am jus curious about the schools that you applied to and how wour application looked because the MCAT is low but not horrible

Who me? Well my gpa is "low" but it was engineering which asides from physics or math has severe grade deflation. A 32 MCAT is not low though.

A B in an engineering class would be the equivalent of an A in a nonphysics/engineering class often times. It's just the culture of the field. Professors often times do not gives curves, and test averages are normally 30-50s.

Gettings 60s is often a sign that you understand the material much better than the rest of the class.

I have applied once, and the only "glaring" part of my application was my "low" gpa. I also applied really late as I took the MCAT in late August (didn't know any better), and thus my application was sent in far later than everyone else. Also, some ******* adcom at my interview told me that my grades weren't good enough and they they should be higher though everything else was fine.

Yeah ok... at least I was making $60,000 a year with my undergrad degree than some bull**** degree.

It's a game, and if I wasn't so wishy washy with what I wanted to do in my life at the age of 17 (should I do medicine, or dentistry, but wait i like engineering too, and I like economics and the military too!), I would have just done an easy major and taken easy classes and glide through undergrad.

So take it from someone who learned the hard way and is pretty (and deeply) bitter about this process. I know that some of you may say, "Oh well you'll get them next year" or whatever, but that's not the point, yes I will most likely get in, but it's another year wasted really, another year of delayed life plans and whatnot. Because I "get it" I may seem a little more irritated than usual about this damn ordeal It's also the reason why I hate ******* premeds who think they know it all and think they're geniuses. There ARE other factors at work too whether they know it or not.

 

[womp]

MCAT 25 ( I never took a course prep class because I do not have the money and it bothers me that in order to do well on the MCAT one needs to take a prep course... what about those who can't afford it???) I studied with the KAPLAN Books and ExamKrackers

I never did a prep course and got a 38. In fact, my friends who did do prep courses all got below 33 and said it was a waste of money. Do a prep course only if you're not motivated and organized enough to study on your own. The Examkracker books are excellent and if you really understand the material in those books, you should get a 32+ with no trouble.

Your low MCAT is not because you didn't do a prep course but simply because you never learned your material well enough.

 

[Mister T]

I never did a prep course and got a 38. In fact, my friends who did do prep courses all got below 33 and said it was a waste of money. Do a prep course only if you're not motivated and organized enough to study on your own. The Examkracker books are excellent and if you really understand the material in those books, you should get a 32+ with no trouble.

Your low MCAT is not because you didn't do a prep course but simply because you never learned your material well enough.

EK is good if you are really well prepped in your background premed classes. They can be tricky if your background is weak. I found their books (particularly physics and gen. chem) to be the weakest, but their EK Bio was EXCELLENT.

Their EK 1001s and 101 verbal are must buys too.

 

[Velocity]

Who me? Well my gpa is "low" but it was engineering which asides from physics or math has severe grade deflation.

I've read your posts in other threads before and couldn't really get a feel for you as a person, but now I understand you. Everything you've said here is right on. The engineering national average GPA is a 2.8, but nobody cares whether you were majoring in engineering or something much, much easier. It sounds like you and I both discovered that our hard efforts wouldn't factor into the end results, and that the "game" could be played much more efficiently, but we discovered it too late.

I was incredibly bitter when I reached those conclusions. We probably worked just as hard (if not harder) than many others, and yet we're penalized for apparently not knowing how to choose something easy for ourselves.

I hope you soften up in the future (particularly when you're in medicine), but otherwise, you know how things are. I hope you make it in some day, and sooner rather than later.

 

[Mister T]

I've read your posts in other threads before and couldn't really get a feel for you as a person, but now I understand you. Everything you've said here is right on. The engineering national average GPA is a 2.8, but nobody cares whether you were majoring in engineering or something much, much easier. It sounds like you and I both discovered that our hard efforts wouldn't factor into the end results, and that the "game" could be played much more efficiently, but we discovered it too late.

I was incredibly bitter when I reached those conclusions. We probably worked just as hard (if not harder) than many others, and yet we're penalized for apparently not knowing how to choose something easy for ourselves.

I hope you soften up in the future (particularly when you're in medicine), but otherwise, you know how things are. I hope you make it in some day, and sooner rather than later.

Thanks --- and yes, I hope that one day too I soften up too, but you know how it is, we are products of our experiences and environments and all.

Keep it real as always,
T

 

[Morsetlis]

Don't know what else I could say.

Retake the MCAT. Apply DO.

 

[flip26]

If you can't afford an MCAT prep course, you at least should purchase the ExamKrackers books - I got them for around $100 or so via Amazon...these will help you a lot. Ask around and somebody may give them to you (I gave mine away last year).

However, I do think the Kaplan online is very helpful, even if too expensive. But there is nothing available in that $2000 program that you can't get on your own with an intensive self directed prep using the ExamKrackers books.

Plus: you need to buy the AAMC practice exams - seems like there are 10 or so of them, cost around $35 apiece...well worth the expense.

EK plus the AAMC practice tests < $500...set aside a solid 3 to 4 months pre exam prep, and hit the practice tests at the rate of at least one per week for the last X weeks of your prep period...

 

[flip26]

I finished my primaries in August and all my secondaries in late October. My science GPA is a 3.3 I believe.

Big red flags here - Late October is just way too late to be completing secondaries, especially as a below average (stats-wise) applicant.

When you reapply, submit the AMCAS in June, and have all secondaries done ASAP...

2nd red flag: That 3.3 Sci GPA (BCPM?) is pretty low, too. When combined with the low MCAT, med schools are probably concluding that you are not really up to the rigors of med school course work...so you have to prove them wrong, and in addition to a stronger MCAT, you may need to do some post bacc work, too, to raise that BCPM...

Don't make the common mistake of rushing out and retaking the MCAT without doing the proper prep...at this date, your best chance may be to skip the upcoming cycle and shoot at taking the MCAT in early 2011 (they have January dates). This would also give you time to take a few more upper level science classes, add to your ECs, maybe get different LORs...in other words, a total makeover of your app.

You do not want to rush the MCAT with an April/May testing (so that you can apply early next cycle), bomb it again, and then be facing the nightmare of overcoming 2 subpar scores...

Good luck.

 

[MBHockey]

Hello-

I am writing because I am in need of some guidance and encouragement. I just got done crying my eyes out after hearing from my mother that the last school I was waiting on declined me . My dreams are deferred but not broken, I still desperately want to be that doctor that I know I can be. I was wondering if any of you know of any post-bac programs that would help me improve my MCAT score.

Profile
Minority female
GPA: 3.5 (honor's program in school with Dean's list each semester)
MCAT 25 ( I never took a course prep class because I do not have the money and it bothers me that in order to do well on the MCAT one needs to take a prep course... what about those who can't afford it???) I studied with the KAPLAN Books and ExamKrackers

I have done plenty of research and my course grades are excellent. I know that it is my MCAT that is holding me back. At this point my two options I think are to find a post-bac program that can help me improve my MCAT or get a job (related to my biology degree) and just take a MCAT course prep class.

This is nonsense. Plenty of people do not take MCAT prep courses. I didn't. I used Berkeley Review books and studied on my own for two months and got a 35R. You can do it too.

And I totally agree about the Engineering GPA thing discussed above. I'm sure my cumulative GPA has raised some eyebrows and gotten my app thrown into the 'not a chance' pile, but i guess ADCOMS don't realize that pre-meds are basically handed 4.0s on a silver platter. I've never had to do less work in my life than when I took pre-med courses and my post-bac GPA was a 3.98. Engineering GPA was a 3.3.

Re-study for the MCAT from the very beginning, and as Flip26 said, get your apps in MUCH earlier. good luck.

 

[Mister T]

This is nonsense. Plenty of people do not take MCAT prep courses. I didn't. I used Berkeley Review books and studied on my own for two months and got a 35R. You can do it too.

And I totally agree about the Engineering GPA thing discussed above. I'm sure my cumulative GPA has raised some eyebrows and gotten my app thrown into the 'not a chance' pile, but i guess ADCOMS don't realize that pre-meds are basically handed 4.0s on a silver platter. I've never had to do less work in my life than when I took pre-med courses and my post-bac GPA was a 3.98. Engineering GPA was a 3.3.

Re-study for the MCAT from the very beginning, and as Flip26 said, get your apps in MUCH earlier. good luck.

 

[dragonfly99]

OP, you have a couple of problems.
The main ones are the low MCAT and also the low science GPA. The overall GPA is lower range too for a med school applicant, but it's still a good GPA (for other people). Just realize that it often takes people more than one try to get into med school. Especially if you are still in undergrad, sometimes the schools want to see you mature a bit as a person and improve your academics a little. It looks like you have enough extracurriculars, if you sell them the right way.

I don't think you need a formal postbac...those can be quite expensive. You really need to focus on getting A's in your science courses (if you are still in school). If you aren't currently in school, then I'd recommend taking once course per term (or semester) ...things like biology courses 300 or 400 level...and make sure you get an "A".

You really need to retake the MCAT. I thought that Princeton Review's class was very helpful, but this was in the days before there was much on the internet, etc. Back in the day, Princeton Review was also considered to put out some of the best review books as well. Independent study is possible, but if it helps you to be "forced" to study, then a formal class like Princeton Review may be helpful. I took one and I paid for it myself (not my parents). This was with money I earned at my job.

If you do want to go the formal postbac route, I think that Wake Forest has a program like that aimed at minorities...if you do well then you get guaranteed a spot in med school. Personally, in your situation I'd try another year at just getting in to med school...but you do need to improve the MCAT, and try to keep up with hospital volunteering and taking some more science credits and get only A or A- grades in those. Also, get a lot of people, including professors or professional writers/PhD types, to review your personal statement.

You really should have a shot at U of North Carolina and your other state school. You need to phone them and ask for feedback about your application, and what you can do to improve it.

 

[Buzz Me]

I would focus on improving you app as much as possible without resorting to "excuses." Everyone wants to rationalize their suboptimal performances but the bottom line is, you're competing against other applicants with stellar applications with or without hardships.

*You need to improve your GPA. For MD schools, you're looking at a mean of around 3.6 (or higher). Post-bacc work would be very helpful for this.
*Obviously you already know that you need to retake the MCAT. There are lots of options out there that do not include signing up for expensive, formal prep classes.
*It cannot be overstated that applying EARLY and WIDELY is absolutely critical.

 

[faith2]

I was not talking to you this was for the OP about the their MCAT, and maybe while you are waiting to reapply you should take a "how to play nice with others class" There is nothing wrong with your application, and I still wish you luck i will pray for you

Who me? Well my gpa is "low" but it was engineering which asides from physics or math has severe grade deflation. A 32 MCAT is not low though.

A B in an engineering class would be the equivalent of an A in a nonphysics/engineering class often times. It's just the culture of the field. Professors often times do not gives curves, and test averages are normally 30-50s.

Gettings 60s is often a sign that you understand the material much better than the rest of the class.

I have applied once, and the only "glaring" part of my application was my "low" gpa. I also applied really late as I took the MCAT in late August (didn't know any better), and thus my application was sent in far later than everyone else. Also, some ******* adcom at my interview told me that my grades weren't good enough and they they should be higher though everything else was fine.

Yeah ok... at least I was making $60,000 a year with my undergrad degree than some bull**** degree.

It's a game, and if I wasn't so wishy washy with what I wanted to do in my life at the age of 17 (should I do medicine, or dentistry, but wait i like engineering too, and I like economics and the military too!), I would have just done an easy major and taken easy classes and glide through undergrad.

So take it from someone who learned the hard way and is pretty (and deeply) bitter about this process. I know that some of you may say, "Oh well you'll get them next year" or whatever, but that's not the point, yes I will most likely get in, but it's another year wasted really, another year of delayed life plans and whatnot. Because I "get it" I may seem a little more irritated than usual about this damn ordeal It's also the reason why I hate ******* premeds who think they know it all and think they're geniuses. There ARE other factors at work too whether they know it or not.

 

[Mister T]

and maybe while you are waiting to reapply you should take a "how to play nice with others class"

Thanks for the advice. You should also take a class on "Logic and Reasoning" class too

I still wish you luck i will pray for you

Thanks, but I don't believe in prayer or an invisible man in the sky, but whatever floats your boat.

Best of luck to you too in the medical school process.

 

[faith2]

Thanks for the advice. You should also take a class on "Logic and Reasoning" class too You are right my logic is often flawed



Thanks, but I don't believe in prayer or an invisible man in the sky, but whatever floats your boat. I was being sarcastic I am an agnostic

Best of luck to you too in the medical school process.

I got into 3 different schools on my first try, so wish me luck for when I start in August

 

[Mister T]

I got into 3 different schools on my first try, so wish me luck for when I start in August

That's fantastic, you should use that line with the ladies.

 

[faith2]

I am not gay, but based on your advice I will use it on the men.

That's fantastic, you should use that line with the ladies.

 

[Earthmk333]

It looks like the MCAT is what is really holding you back. I can't overstate how helpful the AAMC practice tests are. A lot of really nailing it is knowing what the questions look like, how to pace yourself, really knowing what your doing while taking the test. There is nothing quite like just taking the test a whole bunch of times, keeping track of what gives you trouble, focusing on that, and then going back again. Treat each practice test like the real thing. I used Kaplan books, but I found that I didn't really use them all that much, and if there are better books then go get them. But from the first attempt at taking a practice test to the last, without general studying, I went up a ton.

 

[JeetKuneDo]

I like Mr. T and his advice. He says it like it is, no sugar coating.

 

[Coastie]

MCAT is definitely holding you back.

I'd say save yourself a lot of trouble and heartache and go the PA route.

You'll get to practice medicine within a great environment, make great pay, and have a balanced life.

Hello-

I am writing because I am in need of some guidance and encouragement. I just got done crying my eyes out after hearing from my mother that the last school I was waiting on declined me . My dreams are deferred but not broken, I still desperately want to be that doctor that I know I can be. I was wondering if any of you know of any post-bac programs that would help me improve my MCAT score.

Profile
Minority female
GPA: 3.5 (honor's program in school with Dean's list each semester)
MCAT 25 ( I never took a course prep class because I do not have the money and it bothers me that in order to do well on the MCAT one needs to take a prep course... what about those who can't afford it???) I studied with the KAPLAN Books and ExamKrackers

I have done plenty of research and my course grades are excellent. I know that it is my MCAT that is holding me back. At this point my two options I think are to find a post-bac program that can help me improve my MCAT or get a job (related to my biology degree) and just take a MCAT course prep class.

 

[Mister T]

MCAT is definitely holding you back.

I'd say save yourself a lot of trouble and heartache and go the PA route.

You'll get to practice medicine within a great environment, make great pay, and have a balanced life.

Maybe she doesn't want to be a PA?

Grass is always greener on the other side.

Medicine gives you greater status, autonomy, and greater pay, and there is job flexibility if you go into the right fields or if you just choose to work part time. Hell, working 20 hours a week to make 100,000 is not that bad. You get pay in the top 10% of the country with that salary, and you can have ample free time.

If you want the easy lifestyle become a hospitalist, or go into physical medicine and rehabilitation, or if you're even more competitive become a pathologist or even a radiologist, or even super competitive a dermatologist for instance.

No one says that you have to work 60 hour weeks, and you can work more or less if you look.

And if medicine was as bad as gunners on this website will tell you, how come all the doctors' kids are going into medicine?

I mean if medicine was THAT bad, parents wouldn't be encouraging their kids to go into medicine for instance.

Edit: The OP hasn't been on SDN since the 8th of February.

 

[Coastie]

Are you even a physician?

Someone with her stats will not likely get into a medical school.

PA is a great way to go. I think you're idea of what medicine is differs from reality.

Maybe she doesn't want to be a PA?

Grass is always greener on the other side.

Medicine gives you greater status, autonomy, and greater pay, and there is job flexibility if you go into the right fields or if you just choose to work part time. Hell, working 20 hours a week to make 100,000 is not that bad. You get pay in the top 10% of the country with that salary, and you can have ample free time.

If you want the easy lifestyle become a hospitalist, or go into physical medicine and rehabilitation, or if you're even more competitive become a pathologist or even a radiologist, or even super competitive a dermatologist for instance.

No one says that you have to work 60 hour weeks, and you can work more or less if you look.

And if medicine was as bad as gunners on this website will tell you, how come all the doctors' kids are going into medicine?

I mean if medicine was THAT bad, parents wouldn't be encouraging their kids to go into medicine for instance.

Edit: The OP hasn't been on SDN since the 8th of February.

 

[Mister T]

Are you even a physician?

Someone with her stats will not likely get into a medical school.

PA is a great way to go. I think you're idea of what medicine is differs from reality.

Please --- there are kids with lower statistics that are getting in. A friend of mine is going in with a 3.2 overall and a 24 mcat as a URM.

And maybe she doesn't want to be a PA?

She can get into medical school maybe not an MD, but definitely a DO school. But because she's a minority she probably will get in if she's a URM at least.

Sorry, but an appeal to authority doesn't mean much. When you were a premed, were you told not to go into medical school? You don't have the authority to decide whether or not a premed is "qualified" to become a doctor as each case is unique. To do so is just arrogant and snobbish. Maybe residency does that to you, or maybe that's the type of person medical school selects for

And in regards to "reality," to make a claim of what you find as "reality" as truth is just plain laughable. Sorry but what you offer is an opinion and that is all that it is --- particularly a purported resident's opinion which has never worked in the real world yet.

It's also spelled "your" not "you're."

 

[dragonfly99]

The OP needs to explore her options more. PA is definitely a fine choice for some. I think Mr T is incorrect if he thinks that 20 hrs/week as a doc will net 100k a year. Maybe if you are doing part time radiology? Not for IM or family practice for sure. Part time doc in a box doctors make I think around $65/hr...at least that is what I've been offered to moonlight.

The 25 MCAT is likely a stumbling block, as is the lower overall and science GPA. But those can be improved. And it's definitely true that med schools are looking for qualified URM candidates in general. I'm actually surprised if the OP didn't get a fair number of interviews, which makes me think there is more going on hindering her application. Sometimes it's just a lack of focus in the personal statement, and maybe some weaker LOR's. It can be hard to find people who know you well enough to write a good letter, and actually know how to write a LOR for med school. The OP if she is at a school with any large number of premed students should be able to get some advice from a premed advisor. Also, finding a physician mentor, while challenging to do, might be helpful for the applications process. She does need to suck it up and raise up those grades and MCAT a bit more though. If she can raise the MCAT up more toward 30, as well as improve other parts of the application, I think she'll have a better shot at getting in. Sometimes, especially if you're a younger applicant, the admissions committee just wants to see another year of you maturing and to see that you'll persist in trying to get in.

 

[Mister T]

The OP needs to explore her options more. PA is definitely a fine choice for some. I think Mr T is incorrect if he thinks that 20 hrs/week as a doc will net 100k a year. Maybe if you are doing part time radiology? Not for IM or family practice for sure. Part time doc in a box doctors make I think around $65/hr...at least that is what I've been offered to moonlight.[/quot]

I meant part time in middle-tier specialtiies i.e. for instance. Of course, internal medicine or family practice would probably not gross you 100k working 20 hours a week but it depends on where you work, your business model, location and so many other things.

Of course when you work the hospital you're probably under contract to work an allotted amount of time per week, but if you're private you can dictate your hours generally. That, of course, depends on what field you are in (dermatology is going to have a lot more flexibility than say cardiothoracic surgery).

 

[Haplo]

Please --- there are kids with lower statistics that are getting in. A friend of mine is going in with a 3.2 overall and a 24 mcat as a URM.

And maybe she doesn't want to be a PA?

She can get into medical school maybe not an MD, but definitely a DO school. But because she's a minority she probably will get in if she's a URM at least.

Sorry, but an appeal to authority doesn't mean much. When you were a premed, were you told not to go into medical school? You don't have the authority to decide whether or not a premed is "qualified" to become a doctor as each case is unique. To do so is just arrogant and snobbish. Maybe residency does that to you, or maybe that's the type of person medical school selects for

And in regards to "reality," to make a claim of what you find as "reality" as truth is just plain laughable. Sorry but what you offer is an opinion and that is all that it is --- particularly a purported resident's opinion which has never worked in the real world yet.

It's also spelled "your" not "you're."

lmao, word bro, i agree with so much you say.

And at my ole school, UC Berkeley, yes, the advisors did have the hubris to tell everyone without a 3.7+ to go into nursing/pa, etc.

 

[dragonfly99]

Advice from premedical advisors, just like advice from anyone else, must be taken with a grain of salt. And just like with anything else, some are better than others. A premed advisor at a university in California might very well be telling those with <3.7 to avoid applyling to med school, since getting into one of the California state med schools likely would be very hard without such a GPA. However, there are many other options for med school (DO, go to a private med school perhaps in a location less desired by applicants such as Midwest or smaller city/town in South or Northeast). At any phase of your career exploration, I really think it's important to get advice from multiple people.