Realistic outlook for IR

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ErrantWhatever

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Hey gang,

I'm a rising M2 (non-trad) with a strong interest in surgery, but I've also really enjoyed getting to know more about IR through shadowing and lunch talks. The more I ask around about IR, however, the more dubious its future seems to be. In addition to talking to MD's about turf wars, I also know for a fact that 4 out of 5 IR fellows at my institution have yet to find a job at the end of their fellowship(!). While I agree that you should go into what sparks your interest, I also think it's reasonable to look into the market. Anybody have thoughts on the matter?

Cheers.

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I don't know about your institution but there are several IR jobs out there. The market may become better or worse 8 years from now when you graduate. Nobody knows.

I don't believe 4 out of 5 can't find a job unless all of them are looking for a job in Manhattan or all are looking for something very special. Or there may be something wrong with your program.

Even in competitive markets like South California still most IR fellows find a job without moving out of the state. You can check the websites of the programs if you are in doubt.

South California historically always has had a very bad market. In order to stop the rumor here and prove that your case is aberrant, I googled some programs in So-Cal. I came up with USC fellow placements. You can check yourself. Out of 12 fellows in the last 3 years, 10 have found a job in south California. One ended up in Las Vegas and one in a small town in Arizona. I guarantee that except for Manhattan and a few other markets, most of other markets are (much) better than South California. Also though USC is a very solid IR program, its graduates are second to UCLA and UCSD graduates when it comes to job hunt.

Disclaimer: I don't have any relation to USC and didn't have my education there.
 
I think my post is realistic since I showed you some REAL EVIDENCE and not some subjective opinion.
 
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Now all of a sudden the poster has vanished. Not surprising that just before the application season someone comes here and writes a post similar to what the OP did.
 
Haha. Whoa bro. As I stated, it's the summer between M1 and M2, and my (excessive?) absence of a few days is easily explained by the fact that I enjoyed a weekend while that's still an option.

Thanks for looking into the market info--interesting stuff. Since I don't know any of the fellows personally, I'm not sure where they are looking to settle down. So it's true that they may just be trying to land a spot in a tough market. We're in the midwest, and I actually have no clue as to whether that would mean less competition (b/c it's the midwest) or perhaps more (due possibly to less facilities with the required tech).
 
The primary turf war that IR is a part of is the battle for peripheral artery disease and endovascular procedures. Vascular surgery and Interventional cardiology are heavily in the mix.

I just finished M3 and am taking a year to do IR research but I also had similar worries as you in regards to IR vs surgery. I did well enough on step 1/clinical grades to pursue whatever field I wanted but eventually chose IR because of the scope of practice as well as future directions. It's an incredibly rapidly expanding field and outside of PAD work, there's interventional oncology procedures (chemoembolizations, ablations) , women's health procedures (uterine fibroid embolizations, pelvic congestion treatments), biliary tract procdures, as well as all the usual trauma work they do (bleeders).

I absolutely love the variety and creativity. Even if you want to do PAD work, luckily (or unluckily depending on how you see it), there's plenty of patients with vascular problems to go around. I did some research in my hometown (mid-sized midwestern city) and there are a lot of IR's doing PAD work. So even in the midst of a turf war with vascular surgery and Interventional cards, there's PAD work to go around. But that's ok. There's still enough work for all 3 specialties.

One thing to note is that IR is very different program to program, city to city. In the program I'm at, they're extremely busy doing "high-end" work because we have an amazing transplant program and IR is always needed in a transplant team if there's a complication (anastamosis failure, stenting strictures, stenting vessels etc.). We also have a robust cancer center so we also have a ton of TACE's, TARE's. If you have more questions about IR and your department doesn't seem to be answering many of your questions, just remember the IR departments vary wildy from institution to institution.

Keep looking into it, dude. I love patient care and I love procedures. I did very well in my surgery rotation and was told to pursue it by multiple people. I STILL decided on IR for, what I believe, are good reasons. IR is one of the few fields that has a marriage between high technology and medicine. That's its selling point. It's technologically-freaking amazing. The procedures are short and sweet with immediate results. The hospital stay for the patient is minimal. Pain is minimal. There's no general anesthesia. And there's always new procedures coming out. With the advent of the clinical interventional radiologist who holds clinics and sees consults, follows up with patients, IR is more like surgery than it ever has been.

Hope that helps. When I was trying to decided b/w IR and surgery, I needed to hear how much people love IR to really convince me. Hence my long response.
 
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Haha. Whoa bro. As I stated, it's the summer between M1 and M2, and my (excessive?) absence of a few days is easily explained by the fact that I enjoyed a weekend while that's still an option.

Thanks for looking into the market info--interesting stuff. Since I don't know any of the fellows personally, I'm not sure where they are looking to settle down. So it's true that they may just be trying to land a spot in a tough market. We're in the midwest, and I actually have no clue as to whether that would mean less competition (b/c it's the midwest) or perhaps more (due possibly to less facilities with the required tech).

Midwest market is definitely better or much better than North East and California. Chicago is the exception (if you consider it midwest). There are always outliers. One year Indiana market may get very tight for gynecologists for example for many reasons. For example, the biggest group of gynecology in Indiana may make a mistake and hire more people than needed so for the next 3-4 years the market will be tight, though it will adjust itself after a few years.

Anyway, as a partner of a group in one of the very competitive markets who is also involved in hiring, I tell you that the market for IR is fine in either coasts and good in midwest. To give you a scale, in my area the primary care and hospitalist job markets are also fine at best.
 
Midwest market is definitely better or much better than North East and California. Chicago is the exception (if you consider it midwest). There are always outliers. One year Indiana market may get very tight for gynecologists for example for many reasons. For example, the biggest group of gynecology in Indiana may make a mistake and hire more people than needed so for the next 3-4 years the market will be tight, though it will adjust itself after a few years.

Anyway, as a partner of a group in one of the very competitive markets who is also involved in hiring, I tell you that the market for IR is fine in either coasts and good in midwest. To give you a scale, in my area the primary care and hospitalist job markets are also fine at best.

Does your group do a lot of high-end IR work? What percentage of the IR guys work is actually IR? (i'm assuming they do a IR/DR mix)
 
Thanks to both of you for the input. Now I'm really curious why the fellows here are having such a hard time--if you're interested too I'll ask around and post what I find. Cheers.
 
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