Rank list question

[Jamezuva]

Question about rank lists: Does ranking a program lower on your rank list affect your chances of matching at that program at all? For example, let's say there's program A and B and I prefer program A but think it will be harder to match to than B. Now let's say that program B ranks me as #5 and student B as #7 and student B ranks program B as #1. Also, let's say I rank program A as #3 and program B as #8. Let's assume that I don't match with any program before #8. Will I still match with program B over student B despite the fact that student B ranks it higher than I do yet program B ranks me higher than student B? I know this sounds like a algebra word problem, but I was trying to make clear the hypothetical situation was Thanks!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Gfunk6]

If you rank a program lower you WILL be less likely to match. How likely? It depends on the program. If you are applying to a large IM or Surgery program, then a couple of ranking slots will not be a big deal.

And, I know it may sound like a cliche, but I've always been told to rank programs on where you want to go, NOT on how competitive an applicant you think you are. After all, they did invite you for an interview and as such, they will be seriously considering you.

 

[yaah]

Question about rank lists: Does ranking a program lower on your rank list affect your chances of matching at that program at all? For example, let's say there's program A and B and I prefer program A but think it will be harder to match to than B. Now let's say that program B ranks me as #5 and student B as #7 and student B ranks program B as #1. Also, let's say I rank program A as #3 and program B as #8. Let's assume that I don't match with any program before #8. Will I still match with program B over student B despite the fact that student B ranks it higher than I do yet program B ranks me higher than student B? I know this sounds like a algebra word problem, but I was trying to make clear the hypothetical situation was Thanks!

The algorithm is complicated, but it favors YOU, not the programs. That's the easiest way to explain it. DO NOT rank a program higher just because you think you have a better chance of matching there, that's how people end up "settling" every year.

 

[GopherBrain]

I don't think Gfunk6 is right. My understanding of the match algorithm is this:

You match at the highest place you rank that isn't filled with people that it ranked higher than you.

So, for example, say you ranked "Mount Ivy" first, and "University of Somewhere Flat and Cold" fifteenth. MI has 6 spots, and USFC also has 6 spots. MI ranks you 8th, but because they are a very competitive program, the 7 people ahead of you have also ranked it #1, and you don't get a spot. Unfortunately for you, the same thing happens at your next 13 choices also. So we get to USFC, which has ranked you 20th, and Joe Bob (who grew up in the flat cold state and wants to stay there, so he ranked it #1) 21st. Because the program isn't that great, most of the 19 people that USFC ranked ahead of you ended up other places (like Mount Ivy). There is one spot left. So who gets it?

You do.

You get the open spot at your highest ranked program that has not already filled. If doesn't make any difference that Joe Bob ranked the program #1.

 

[Jamezuva]

Hmm..two opposite opinions. Well, anyway, I only plan to rank places where I would be happy, so hopefully, even if I only get my #16th choice, I'll still be ok

 

[GopherBrain]

Don't take our word. Read what the NRMP has to say:

http://www.nrmp.org/res_match/about_res/algorithms.html

 

[Jamezuva]

Don't take our word. Read what the NRMP has to say:

http://www.nrmp.org/res_match/about_res/algorithms.html

you are THE DUDE, even though your avatar is Goodman

 

[fourthyearmed]

In my understanding, yes you will match will program B over student B because you are higher on the program's list and you have not matched with anyone you ranked above that program. The whole process works quite similarly to Sorority/Fraternity Rush interestingly enough.

 

[Idiopathic]

The odd thing is that the algorithm is constantly changing, after each 'round' of matching. People get their first choice, but then get bumped from it after more names come in, it is all very weird, from what I understand.

 

[jazz]

Question about rank lists: Does ranking a program lower on your rank list affect your chances of matching at that program at all? For example, let's say there's program A and B and I prefer program A but think it will be harder to match to than B. Now let's say that program B ranks me as #5 and student B as #7 and student B ranks program B as #1. Also, let's say I rank program A as #3 and program B as #8. Let's assume that I don't match with any program before #8. Will I still match with program B over student B despite the fact that student B ranks it higher than I do yet program B ranks me higher than student B? I know this sounds like a algebra word problem, but I was trying to make clear the hypothetical situation was Thanks!

The algorithm gets confusing but... the match is done based on what the programs want but it benefits the applicant.

thus, in your hypothetical program B wants you more than the other student and since you have not yet matched, you would match into the spot not the other student.

i think gfunk6's comment "If you rank a program lower you WILL be less likely to match" is only true becuase you are MORE likely to rank above your program.

So, in the end the same thing: Rank based on where you want to go.... It's that simple, make a list of 1-whatever and go for it. Don't try and figure out where they want you. If they want you and you want them, you'll get it. The reason the match benefits you is because if you don't think you have a shot in hell at matching at "Best program in best location" but want to give it a shot then you rank it number one. If they run out of slots (in other words with their 10 slots, they matched their top 10 and you weren't one of them) and you ranked "Strong program" second and they want you, you'll match there. You aren't penalized for taking the risk of ranking your long shot "best program in best location" number one.

good luck

 

[Seaglass]

No, ranking a program higher will not "pull" you into that program. Aside from listing your preferences, the order you rank programs has NO other effect on where you match. You cannot manipulate the algorithm. It's just math.

C

 

[surg]

Gopherbrain has it right on. As someone who lived through the change in algorithm from hospital proposing to student proposing, I can tell you with a fair bit of certainty, that to the extent that math can describe it, an applicant gains absolutely no advantage by not ranking their programs in the order that they would prefer to go to them. (In the old algorithm you could potentially do better by truncating your list, but at the expense of having a higher chance of not matching at all. One of the reasons to get rid of it.)

The NRMP website has an extensive description. For a description of the math behind it, try Al Roth's website on experimental economics
http://www.economics.harvard.edu/~aroth/alroth.html
or for his studies on the NRMP algorithm:
http://www.economics.harvard.edu/~aroth/nrmp.html

The only other potential quirks have to do with the way transitional/prelim years meet up with PGY-2 matches, and couples matches. Way too complex for me to describe.