RadOnc Is Still The Best Field in Medicine

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Did the fmgs who took those fellowships feel more comfortable figuring out 30/10, 20/5 or 8/1 afterwards? :laugh:


hahaha. Yeah some of these programs would be so much smarter to just use common sense in how they name these things. The optics of 'Palliative' fellowship is so bad. Even 'Advanced Radiation Oncology' is sort of silly but at least it sounds better.

I don't know what it's actually like at Columbia where I think the palliative fellowship was advertised, but I'm guessing that unless it's a specific peds, proton, or brachy fellowship, most of these fellowships are scheduled to have a general wide breadth of all disease sites, basically like an average year as a resident, regardless of the name.

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I have a major problem with continued residency expansion.

but I gotta be honest, I have never understood the anger surrounding these fellowships. The majority are taken up by FMGs who come here for 1-2 years, and then go back. A small minority of them end up going for the ABR backwards path certification and end up thus impacting the job market, but this is seriously a minority.

I have met and trained with a number of these people. Some are super smart and genuinely want to learn here and go back home and take stuff back. I have even met some that paid a lot of money out of their own pocket just to come observe for 1-2 months before going back, so in comparison a 1 year fellowship where you actually get PAID is a sweet deal for some. (one guy told me he was literally doing it for the money - 60k US salary for a year is a ton in South Asian terms). Some are not so smart or well trained and need the extra year of education before going back. and yes, some are exceptional, are motivated to stay in the US, and get sponsored by the department to enter the 5 year ABR Pathway for certification.

Yes, it's 'cheap labor' for departments that is cheaper than hiring an NP. But it ultimately did not bother me one bit during residency, and I learned a lot from some of the fellows earlier in my training.

I would much rather a department open a 1 year fellowship than try to expand resident slots.
Agree with everything, but ultimately us grads will be the ones ending up in these fellowships
 
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Agree with everything, but ultimately us grads will be the ones ending up in these fellowships

Yeah that’s inevitable esp with 5fx Sbrt coming around the corner. Perfecting your Sbrt skills for 2 years is gonna be a must even. It’s gonna be like radiology fellowships except more useless than that. More like path fellowships

We fixate on new grads getting jobs but honestly I worry even more about those that are out practicing now with families and mortgages keeping the jobs they have at the salary they aren’t at.

Most of them are employed but eventually admin looks at the numbers and there’s is a reckoning a bad one. They aren’t gonna put up with your 5fx if they aren’t making money on it.
 
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Not the thread or the forum to espouse how there are too many US medical schools opening. Zero relevance to Rad Onc. Take that **** to Allopathic. 4 posts deleted.

I know of N=6 AMGs that did a non-brachy, non-proton, non-peds fellowship. Sure it's not a lot but the fact that places are looking for fellows rather than junior faculty is part of the job market issue.
 
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Yeah that’s inevitable esp with 5fx Sbrt coming around the corner. Perfecting your Sbrt skills for 2 years is gonna be a must even. It’s gonna be like radiology fellowships except more useless than that. More like path fellowships

We fixate on new grads getting jobs but honestly I worry even more about those that are out practicing now with families and mortgages keeping the jobs they have at the salary they aren’t at.

Most of them are employed but eventually admin looks at the numbers and there’s is a reckoning a bad one. They aren’t gonna put up with your 5fx if they aren’t making money on it.

The near-constant low-level anxiety of being a practicing radonc in today's day and age isn't something I was expecting. No matter what your situation, it's a time that should make one nervous. Successful private practice? Well, a hospital system could buy out your referring practices, and you're done for. A huge, very well-monetized academic center could open up a satellite center across the street and use their state-derived marketing dollars to end you.

Employed hospital physician? Increasing numbers of new grads means your current salary and benefits -whatever that may be- is under very real threat. Academic physician? At a satellite? Same issue as with the employed hospital position, except your salary will already be low, as the academic administrators know all about the new grad glut. They created it after all. Not going to be getting that protected research/teaching time they all preach is so important after all, and the quality of your future residents may suffer.

What the ivory tower folks don't seem to understand is that with radonc, if you lose your job/position due to factors out of your control, in today's day and age, that's an absolute disaster in terms of your entire life. As we all know, you cannot simply "hang a shingle" with radonc like you can with many other specialties, including primary care, family medicine, Ob/Gyn (though that's tough, but can be done with Ob hospitalists), neurosurgery (all you need is an office and an MA), many types of ortho (hand especially), general surgery (depending on how you want to practice), plastics, ENT, dermatology, and several IM subspecialties.

In those specialties, physicians are less sensitive to job market issues, as they can go out and practice themselves without many millions of dollars of capital and an established referral base. As it's simply not possible in radonc, due to the capital involved, unemployment problems are orders of magnitude more impactful. Additionally, with the relatively small size of our specialty, not only can you not set up your own practice, you won't be able to choose where you end up. At all. Location is a bigger deal once you have a family, they have a life established, etc. As a result, although I have a tremendous practice and am very, very happy overall, there's always a low-level fear that forces outside of my control will take it all away from me and I'll be separated from my family.

That's not an idle fear. Happened to a radonc in my neck of the woods. Came into town to try to join a group and compete with us a few years ago. Didn't work out, and he was fired before making partner. His family now lives in this state as he travels the US doing locums and asking me every month or two if I know of any jobs in the state. I do not. Living and working apart from your family is a terrible place to find yourself. Is there another specialty where, after losing a job in one of the most populous states in the nation, you couldn't find another? Hell, this is in one of the top 15 metro areas in the country. I'm willing to bet that, non-competes aside, you'd be able to find a job in this exact same city in nearly every other specialty, barring a few outliers.

There aren't many other specialties in medicine that have the same issues we do with respect to jobs, and as a result we are- and always have been- extremely sensitive to job market concerns. Tenured academicians are the last people in the world I would expect to understand that, but they're the very ones who need convincing.
 
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This is the sort of post that needs to be written up on a blog or medium.com and then heavily tweeted
 
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Honestly the mayos, wvu's and Arkansas of Rad Onc will probably need a few unfilled/unmatched residency years before they get the point
 
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"Will" implies future. Reading. It's essential


You have previously erroneously posted that mayo went unmatched and now you are grouping it with programs that DID go unfilled and will this year again. Grouping a top program like Mayo with those places dilutes your point.
 
But getting back to the point - yes, newer unprovem programs, no-name places, and places that have been around for a while but have a poor rep for quality of life/malignancy WILL go unmatched this year.
 
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You have previously erroneously posted that mayo went unmatched and now you are grouping it with programs that DID go unfilled and will this year again. Grouping a top program like Mayo with those places dilutes your point.
Let's not start on all of your errors and continued pollyanna diatribes on the field (urologists sending for xrt being the most recent example)... KOs original post was very poorly worded, something you agreed on.

The field is sick and many of these newer programs will need to go unfilled for out-of-touch Ivory tower bubble academicians to get the point.

Personally, there is no way in hell I'd rank any Mayo program in the current environment.
 
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