Radiology as FMG/IMG: Visa comparison long term

[Pier]

I'm currently studying medicine in Italy, second year (our of six), graduating in 2025, and preplanning* my hop across the pond to the US. Currently I'm investigating the possibility to get into radiology (diagnostics in particular).

One of my concerns is the peculiarity of rads' path, with its 1+4+1/2 years.
As an FMG, my VISA options are:

• H1B: it's strictly 3+3 years. That's a really tight fit. Maybe I can manage to have the prelim yr on an OPT extension to have more breathing room (but still many fellowships will push for an adjustment to J1 - which would invalidate the whole added effort the H1B requires).
  • Q: with a broad app to lower-tier programs would it be feasible?
• J1: no problem since it's 6+1 years, should cover the whole formation. But then I'm stuck with 3 years of "underserved areas"
  • Q: I've just looked on the web and found several radiology job offers "accepting J1 visas": can you reassure me this includes J1 waivers?
  • Qs: how bad is this kind of working environment? Could VA be a better solution? How much money I'm I going to lose working like this for 3 years? What about my "marketability" after these 3yr?

Finally: "lower-tier program with H1B but straight to any job" vs. "higher-tier program with J1 but +3 yr of underserved", how would you compare them?


*I do know it's too soon to think about everchanging laws, job markets, matches, etc, yet I think it's prudent to know the possible hurdles.

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[risus_sardonicus]

Lol your enthusiasm and dedication to researching this is great, but 2025 is a long way away. A lot will change between then and now medically, politically, economically.

The more important question to ask is are you truly a competitive DR/IR candidate? Have you taken Step1/2? Any USCE? Matching radiology is not a walk in the park particularly if you are an IMG with a visa requirement. I would take the first few stairs before trying to leap towards the top.

 

[Pier]

Yea I know, "how get a stellar enough app" will be another thread sooner or later right now, the plan is to take Step1 at the end of my third year, keep studying for the best possible Step2, and between my 5th and 6th year throw as much time as possible in aquiring USCEs. Then J1 to make it as easy as possible to match.
But just to be sure, what do you with "take the first few stairs"?

 

[Dryad8212]

.

 

[Pier]

don't do radiology since I will be part of the class of 2025. btw why is your medical school six years long and not 4 or 5?

That's OT, but in Italy it's like this: graduation from high school at 18/19, that big national exam to access med school which is 6 yrs, from which you graduate (theoretically) at 24/25; then the residency.
The fact that Step1 and half of Step2 have been "dumbed down" is not good news for IMGs like me. We'll see.

 

[Dryad8212]

That's OT, but in Italy it's like this: graduation from high school at 18/19, that big national exam to access med school which is 6 yrs, from which you graduate (theoretically) at 24/25; then the residency.
The fact that Step1 and half of Step2 have been "dumbed down" is not good news for IMGs like me. We'll see.

Its not good for medical education at all. If anything, they should have gotten rid of step 3. Reduce the need for a useless bachelors degree and instead just apply with pre reqs and mcat. But they are too money hungry and selfish to do so.

 

[Splenda88]

Its not good for medical education at all. If anything, they should have gotten rid of step 3. Reduce the need for a useless bachelors degree and instead just apply with pre reqs and mcat. But they are too money hungry and selfish to do so.

I have been saying that for while in SDN... Our medical education should be prereqs + 3 yrs of med school and 2-6 yrs residency.

 

[Dryad8212]

I have been saying that for while in SDN... Our medical education should be prereqs + 3 yrs of med school and 2-6 yrs residency.

What can I do to bring a change to this predatory system (money grab) ?

2-6 years of residency without an useless internship year would be great!

 

[Splenda88]

What can I do to bring a change to this predatory system (money grab) ?

2-6 years of residency without an useless internship year would be great!

Try to get a leadership position in LCME or ACGME. I wish I was into administration; it would have been my top prior to change the entire US medical education.

2-3 yrs prereqs + 3 yrs med school and 2-6 yrs residency.

The useless CS is suspended and this would have never happened w/o the pandemic... Now let's fight to eliminate Step3 and board re-certification every 10 yrs.

 

[Dryad8212]

Try to get a leadership position in LCME or ACGME. I wish I was into administration; it would have been my top prior to change the entire US medical education.

2-3 yrs prereqs + 3 yrs med school and 2-6 yrs residency.

The useless CS is suspended and this would have never happened w/o the pandemic... Now let's fight to eliminate Step3 and board re-certification every 10 yrs.

I may look into that in the future and change some of the pre reqs. Some schools require history pre req but not pharmacology?? Like wtf..

CS was an okay exam but its eliminated now. They should have kept the scoring system on step 1 but that is my opinion

 

[Splenda88]

I may look into that in the future and change some of the pre reqs. Some schools require history pre req but not pharmacology?? Like wtf..

CS was an okay exam but its eliminated now. They should have kept the scoring system on step 1 but that is my opinion

CS was an ok exam! You think CS contribute an iota to someone becoming a good doc. I agree with your assessment about step1.

 

[shezadeh]

Its not good for medical education at all. If anything, they should have gotten rid of step 3. Reduce the need for a useless bachelors degree and instead just apply with pre reqs and mcat. But they are too money hungry and selfish to do so.

Isn't that how medical school originally was in the states (prereqs and mcat)? A friend had a rotation (in the US) with a doctor (nonIMG) who didn't have an undergraduate degree.

 

[Dryad8212]

Isn't that how medical school originally was in the states (prereqs and mcat)? A friend had a rotation (in the US) with a doctor (nonIMG) who didn't have an undergraduate degree.

Use to be, thing is everything is so competitive, they added a hurdle to weed people out even more.

 

[shezadeh]

Use to be, thing is everything is so competitive, they added a hurdle to weed people out even more.

Apparently PAs used to have associates degrees, then it became a bachelor's degree, and now it's a masters degree...

 

[Dave1980]

I'm currently studying medicine in Italy, second year (our of six), graduating in 2025, and preplanning* my hop across the pond to the US. Currently I'm investigating the possibility to get into radiology (diagnostics in particular).

One of my concerns is the peculiarity of rads' path, with its 1+4+1/2 years.
As an FMG, my VISA options are:

• H1B: it's strictly 3+3 years. That's a really tight fit. Maybe I can manage to have the prelim yr on an OPT extension to have more breathing room (but still many fellowships will push for an adjustment to J1 - which would invalidate the whole added effort the H1B requires).
  • Q: with a broad app to lower-tier programs would it be feasible?
• J1: no problem since it's 6+1 years, should cover the whole formation. But then I'm stuck with 3 years of "underserved areas"
  • Q: I've just looked on the web and found several radiology job offers "accepting J1 visas": can you reassure me this includes J1 waivers?
  • Qs: how bad is this kind of working environment? Could VA be a better solution? How much money I'm I going to lose working like this for 3 years? What about my "marketability" after these 3yr?

Finally: "lower-tier program with H1B but straight to any job" vs. "higher-tier program with J1 but +3 yr of underserved", how would you compare them?


*I do know it's too soon to think about everchanging laws, job markets, matches, etc, yet I think it's prudent to know the possible hurdles.

The only people I've seen get residency spots have done multiple years of research in the US after med school. Your chances of getting a spot right out of med school are near 0 from my experience. Unfortunately (for you) if you really want to do this you should get in the mindset of putting in like 2-3 years of very low pay research work after med school.

How bad is the salary for an Italian radiologist? How is the lifestyle? I've always thought that doctors in the EU don't get worked as hard as doctors in the US but I really have no idea.

 

[Pier]

The only people I've seen get residency spots have done multiple years of research in the US after med school. Your chances of getting a spot right out of med school are near 0 from my experience. Unfortunately (for you) if you really want to do this you should get in the mindset of putting in like 2-3 years of very low pay research work after med school.

How bad is the salary for an Italian radiologist? How is the lifestyle? I've always thought that doctors in the EU don't get worked as hard as doctors in the US but I really have no idea.

Thanks for the input, It's seems to me you are speaking only with anectodal knowledge tough. Sometime in the future (possibly in 6-8 months from now) I'll contact some universities who accepted non-US IMG around the US to ask them about the curriculum and said IMG in order to confirm your impression.
In Italy a radioogy should earn from 40k to 150k gross (estimate 50% tax because classic Europe) very rarely more. My guesstimation would be 60-80k gross. Lifestyle is theorically better than the US, but it's gettin worse and worse with every passing year (because here too this profession is being "polically abandoned"). Overall, probably more free time, definitely way way less money. What pulls me to the US is 1) money, 2) more sun/light hours (it's true, look into it), 3) challenge for myself.
If Plan A is radiology in the US, Plan B would be either FM in the US or radiology in ITA, and that's even thougher to decide. We'll see.

 

[Dave1980]

Thanks for the input, It's seems to me you are speaking only with anectodal knowledge tough. Sometime in the future (possibly in 6-8 months from now) I'll contact some universities who accepted non-US IMG around the US to ask them about the curriculum and said IMG in order to confirm your impression.
In Italy a radioogy should earn from 40k to 150k gross (estimate 50% tax because classic Europe) very rarely more. My guesstimation would be 60-80k gross. Lifestyle is theorically better than the US, but it's gettin worse and worse with every passing year (because here too this profession is being "polically abandoned"). Overall, probably more free time, definitely way way less money. What pulls me to the US is 1) money, 2) more sun/light hours (it's true, look into it), 3) challenge for myself.
If Plan A is radiology in the US, Plan B would be either FM in the US or radiology in ITA, and that's even thougher to decide. We'll see.

I wish you luck. I am surprised at how low the pay is for rads in Italy. Is the lifestyle amazing? I know it is hard to quantify but what's a normal workday like? How many exams/CTs/MRIs is considered a normal workday?

 

[RadX]

I don't know about Italy but I was in Germany and now in the US. So I can speak about Germany, the difference is not in the number of studies but the number of hours. In Germany, you are paid to work 8 hours per day, no weekends, no calls. Then, you are paid extra for any additional morning or evening extratime, weekend calls or calls in general. Then you get minimum 6 weeks vacation per year. So lifestyle is definitely better with salary compromise. You can definitely make more money by working longer hours but it is capped by the government and you have a limit of extra hours.

Overall, I think the salary thing (US vs. Europe) is hyped. To make a fair comparison you need to assume equal work days/hours. And yes, taxes are higher in Europe but education and healthcare are way cheaper so you don't need to earn that much anyway.