quoted: alcohol violations and med school admissions

[Doodledog]

Why not just ask AMCAS? Also, I think that even if disclosed, assuming this occurred 5 yrs ago with nothing similar since, it would not be a big issue if you did need to disclose. We'll see if anyone else has an opinion, but I'd be doubtful you'll get an answer better than AMCAS can give.

Between the summer of my freshman and sophomore years in college (five years ago), I received two underage drinking tickets within two months of each other. Neither ticket was reported to my university. In my state there are literally thousands of minor consumption tickets given out each year. I went through a "deferral" process with each ticket, paid a small fine, and the tickets were both dismissed. My criminal record is clear, however a background check may reveal I was charged with the tickets at one point. This year's AMCAS application (2012 matriculation) states:

Have you ever been convicted of, or pleaded guilty or no contest to, a Misdemeanor crime, excluding 1) any offense for which you were adjudicated as a juvenile, 2) any convictions which have been expunged or sealed by a court, or 3) any misdemeanor convictions for which any probation has been completed and the case dismissed by the court (in states where applicable)?

You need NOT disclose any instance where you:

• were arrested, but not charged;
• were arrested and charged, but the charges were dropped;
• were arrested and charged, but found not guilty by a judge or jury;
• were arrested and found guilty by a judge or jury, but the conviction was overturned on appeal; or
• received an executive pardon.

My case falls into the situations bolded and underlined. Should I still disclose on the AMCAS application? I would hate to not disclose and be dismissed if I were to receive an acceptance. My MCAT is average and my GPA is fine, with a strong upward trend in the last year and a half (>3.8).

Thank you for any help! Please let me know if there is any other information you may need.

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[PMPMD]

The case was dismissed; the charges were not dropped. The 2 are different. Your case falls into the former underlined passage, not the latter. I think you need to disclose this. If you don't disclose this, and it's discovered later, your concealment would look very bad. Present dishonesty is worse than past youthful indiscretion.

 

[rjmn]

The case was dismissed; the charges were not dropped. The 2 are different. Your case falls into the former underlined passage, not the latter. I think you need to disclose this. If you don't disclose this, and it's discovered later, your concealment would look very bad. Present dishonesty is worse than past youthful indiscretion.

I agree, with a caveat. Were these misdemeanors? If they were summary judgments or infractions (lesser degrees of crime than a misdemeanor), then the AMCAS guidance would seem to suggest that you don't need to disclose this.

 

[rjmn]

The case was dismissed; the charges were not dropped. The 2 are different. Your case falls into the former underlined passage, not the latter. I think you need to disclose this. If you don't disclose this, and it's discovered later, your concealment would look very bad. Present dishonesty is worse than past youthful indiscretion.

Upon reading more closely, I think this post is in error. If the case falls into "the former underlined passage", that would still mean the OP wouldn't have to disclose.

 

[PMPMD]

Upon reading more closely, I think this post is in error. If the case falls into "the former underlined passage", that would still mean the OP wouldn't have to disclose.

True. I misread "excluding".

 

[Doodledog]

From the OP. As always, please remember that although I (Tildy) am posting this, I am not the person with the question. People seem to get confused about this?

In any case....

I have quoted and replied to the poster's comments as to remain anonymous. I will be calling AMCAS to confirm this week, but I do believe I do not have to disclose, based on their description.

The case was dismissed; the charges were not dropped. The 2 are different. Your case falls into the former underlined passage, not the latter. I think you need to disclose this. If you don't disclose this, and it's discovered later, your concealment would look very bad. Present dishonesty is worse than past youthful indiscretion.

True. I misread "excluding".

Thank you for your reply, PMPMD. I do not want this situation to take a turn for the worse if I am accepted and my violations are discovered later, thus the contemplation on my part. As pointed out above by rjmn, the first paragraph states excluding, and lists my situation. However, these violations, even though they are tickets, are charged initially as the lowest form of misdemeanor in my state. Again, both tickets were subsequently dismissed (read: charges dismissed/dropped on court transcript) after paying the small fee, in which my situation would fall into the highlighted situation. Because of your agreement with rjmn, I'm assuming you are now agreeing I do not have a duty to disclose per AMCAS?

I agree, with a caveat. Were these misdemeanors? If they were summary judgments or infractions (lesser degrees of crime than a misdemeanor), then the AMCAS guidance would seem to suggest that you don't need to disclose this.

Upon reading more closely, I think this post is in error. If the case falls into "the former underlined passage", that would still mean the OP wouldn't have to disclose.

Thanks for your reply, rjmn. You are correct, the first paragraph states "excluding" and therefore would not need to be disclosed.

Thank you for everyone's help!

 

[Lil Mick]

I was in a similar situation when I applied and consulted a lawyer to figure out what I needed to disclose to AMCAS and on secondaries to specific schools. I did not need to disclose it on AMCAS, but some secondaries asked more specific questions that necessitated disclosure and an explanation of the situation. I hope that helps.

 

[PMPMD]

I was in a similar situation when I applied and consulted a lawyer to figure out what I needed to disclose to AMCAS and on secondaries to specific schools. I did not need to disclose it on AMCAS, but some secondaries asked more specific questions that necessitated disclosure and an explanation of the situation. I hope that helps.

I think as the OP noted, he is OK not mentioning the tickets on AMCAS. As this quoted poster noted, the other applications you will have to fill out throughout your medical career (residency, licensing, credentialing) will have varying wording, so this may come up again in the future. Good luck.

 

[DrIBProfen]

I think at this point you don't understand the paperwork and the process well enough to answer properly. Until you do, I don't think anyone here can give you an answer.

Now the laws and procedures of each state can differ dramatically, but if you were in my home state, it sounds like you got an "SIS" (suspended imposition of sentence). That's when a judge withholds deciding (or imposing) a sentence pending successful completion of probation. Upon satisfactory completion of probation, the judge issues a Discharge Order and the case dismissed without a conviction. Thus, you could answer honestly that you were never convicted of a crime.

To put your mind at ease (if you were in my home state), this is likely what would've happened and even if you were convicted of misdemeanor possession of alcohol it really isn't a big deal with the following two MAJOR CAVEATS:

(1) Honesty. If you're caught lying on admissions forms then very bad things can happen to you. Not only could you application be rejected, but if found after matriculation, you could be kicked out of school. Even worse, the answers on your application may be reviewed when you seek licensing and your lack of candor could be grounds for denying you a license.

Don't take this likely as all of these things happened to my fellow law school classmates when we applied, matriculated and took the bar. We were subject to a thorough background check and some of us had to go to the state capital to answer questions. Even fewer us of were actually denied a law license.

(2) Track Record. Were you 18 and stupid once and then got your head screwed on right and kept clean after that? If so, you're just fine. We were all there. The problem comes when you don't learn. So one, maybe two, MIPS are probably fine, but add more and a DUI and you're not likely to gain admission. Again, this is not an exaggeration. A fellow student of mine got his 2nd DUI as a third-year law student and was not permitted to sit for the bar exam as a result.

Sorry for the gloom and doom. Chances are you received an SIS and were never technically convicted. My best advice to you is to pull your own court records either online or at the courthouse and determine exactly what happened. Then answer the question honestly and appropriately within the framework given above.

Hope my long answer helps you or someone else who searches the forums in the future.

Disclaimer: I am only licensed in Missouri and am not familiar with procedures elsewhere.