Questions about OMS

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DDS176

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Ok so please direct me to the right place for this, if this isn't it, but I have a few questions about OMS.

I am a DDS1 and am debating OMS as an option.

My grades this year have been rough in the sciences (B's and the occasional C) but the dentistry/clinical courses have been solid A's. GPA is low 3 something. Let's say I can pull it up to mid 3's by the time I would be applying to OMS.

1. Will I have any chance at OMS having gotten bad grades in the basic science classes?
2. Do I need to be doing lots of volunteer work to be competitive for OMS? Or is there something else I should look into doing?
3. How does it work now that the boards are P/F?
4. I've heard that you can't really match into OMS straight out of school and you have to work for a couple years or something first, any truth to this?

I'm kinda clueless right now, sorry for any ignorance!


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I am on the same boat as you. It would be awesome if someone could give us some feedback on this topic. Any residents who would like to share?
 
DDS176 said:
Ok so please direct me to the right place for this, if this isn't it, but I have a few questions about OMS.

I am a DDS1 and am debating OMS as an option.

My grades this year have been rough in the sciences (B's and the occasional C) but the dentistry/clinical courses have been solid A's. GPA is low 3 something. Let's say I can pull it up to mid 3's by the time I would be applying to OMS.

1. Will I have any chance at OMS having gotten bad grades in the basic science classes? Not sure, but I am sure a decent class rank and a solid CBSE might compensate?
2. Do I need to be doing lots of volunteer work to be competitive for OMS? Or is there something else I should look into doing? Volunteer? Maybe not. Extern? Yes. Do something to show leadership, like set up a club or something. Maybe do some research in the field
3. How does it work now that the boards are P/F? Boards are no longer used; the CBSE is used
4. I've heard that you can't really match into OMS straight out of school and you have to work for a couple years or something first, any truth to this? Totally wrong. In fact, the opposite generally rings true. Most people come straight out of school entering OMFS residency.

Thanks
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My responses above. Hope this helps :)
 
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1. Will I have any chance at OMS having gotten bad grades in the basic science classes?
- Grades are important, but I would say class rank is more important. That being said, I have known people to get in in the top 50% of their class, but make sure you have good leadership/activities, research, externships and a descent board (cbse) score.
2. Do I need to be doing lots of volunteer work to be competitive for OMS? Or is there something else I should look into doing?
-start doing externships during your second year spring and into third year. The more, the better. Spring break, summer, christmas. OMS related research is great. A faculty mentor in the oms department is a good thing. Most people go into dentistry vs medicine because the lifestyle/schedule is less rigorous. An oms residency is completely opposite this, so faculty want to make sure you know what you are getting yourself into and that you love the specialty. A person who drops out during the residency is never a good thing.
3. How does it work now that the boards are P/F?
- When I applied, we still had graded dental boards, but it's all about the NBME CBSE now. This test is very important and very difficult for most dental students. USMLE step I study materials are what you need to prepare for this. First Aid usmle step I, uworld step I qbank. I'd think a good score on this exam could displace any poor performances in your dental school science classes for application purposes.
4. I've heard that you can't really match into OMS straight out of school and you have to work for a couple years or something first, any truth to this?
- Going out into general practice is something that residencies such as endo or pedo like to see (i think), but in oms typically this is not the case. If you are not the best candidate for residency towards the end of dental school or you apply and don't get in, you can do a 1 year internship to help your chances and show faculty that you have what it takes (or not!).

I'm kinda clueless right now, sorry for any ignorance!
- If you have a residency program at your school, get to know the residents. We are typically the best source of info for you. Go to grand rounds. Get to know faculty in the department. The more you are around and show a genuine interest, the more likely you are to get good letters of recommendation.

Good Luck.
 
Thanks for replies so far.

I feel so dumb for asking this but can someone explain how externships work to me?

And also what is the timeline of externships/nbme (when should I take/do them?)

I can easily get into a good mentor position with the OMS faculty/chair at my school, know them already.

I have been worried because I haven't been involved in any organizations or volunteering yet. So overall, am I understanding right that OMS admissions would be based more off of bigger serious/related things like OMS research, OMS externships, letters of rec from well known OMS's...And not the kind of 'petty' stuff I went through for DDS admissions, like volunteering my time to assist in the schools public clinics/im in this club and that club/etc...
 
DDS176 said:
I have been worried because I haven't been involved in any organizations or volunteering yet. So overall, am I understanding right that OMS admissions would be based more off of bigger serious/related things like OMS research, OMS externships, letters of rec from well known OMS's...And not the kind of 'petty' stuff I went through for DDS admissions, like volunteering my time to assist in the schools public clinics/im in this club and that club/etc...
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You're an dingus, you'll fit right in amongst us.
 
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From my understanding these are the most important aspects for an OMFS match (in this order):

1. CBSE NBME score: I don't know what a good score is as I never took the exam, but it seems like >70 is great

2. Class Rank: I didn't go to a DS with ranks, but I think top 10% is what most programs want to see, and lets face it, OMFS applicants are the best dental students so this isn't too hard for most

3. Externships: 3-4 should be adequate over 4-6 weeks in time, start doing them after you enter the clinical part of your dental education and/or get some experience on your OMFS rotation in dental school. If you don't know anything at externship they probably won't let you do much (but can still learn a lot if residents are willing to teach and extern is willing to learn). If you want to do an externship as D1/D2, go to a program that is "observation only" because that's all you will be doing anyway - save the programs you can get dirty at for the summer between your D3/D4 years. Extern in geographical areas you want to be. If you go to dental school on the west coast but want to go the the east coast for residency, don't extern at UW, OHSU, and USC. Extern at program types you want to be. If you want to "do cancer", don't extern at just UCLA and Columbia.

4. Something that makes you standout: 80-90% of applicants can probably check all of the above boxes. How are you different? What do you bring to the table that is going to make you ranked #1 at every program you interview at?

5. Research: this doesn't really matter, but obviously if you have done something really awesome (e.g. on the verge of curing oral cancer) be sure to highlight that on your application/personal statement. Other than that research is mainly used as a talking point at the interview. Side note: if you put research on your application, KNOW YOUR OWN RESEARCH INSIDE AND OUT. There is nothing worse than getting PIMPed on your own research.

6. Letters of Rec: I purposely put this last just because I think 95% of the letters look identical, unless you are extremely unique in some way which can be revealed in your personal statement and interviews. If you don't completely suck and 3-4 faculty know who you are then you can probably get some good letters. Faculty want to see their students succeed and will write letters to reflect that.


Last thing, please don't be a douche on externships and/or interviews. Most of these people are going to be your colleagues if everything works out, and some of them might actually be your coresidents. Be friendly to everyone, talk to everyone, and don't burn any bridges.
 
Sublimazing said:
80-90% cannot check off that 70+ on the cbse. If you crush that test you're guaranteed a 6yr spot somewhere on your rank list.
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As I said, I don't know what a good score is. Thanks for the clarification.
 
Sublimazing said:
80-90% cannot check off that 70+ on the cbse. If you crush that test you're guaranteed a 6yr spot somewhere on your rank list.
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Why just a 6 year spot? Seems like both programs weigh the CBSE equally from what I understand...
 
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Sublimazing said:
I meant as in you can get whatever you want...the 6yrs being more appealing.
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Hmmmm, I think I would disagree. You are, after all, adding 2 more years (+50% duration), often paying more tuition for med school, as well as having 2 more years of interest accumulate which can account for about a $600-$700k opportunity cost. Not to mention it does not increase the scope of practice for 95% or more of all oral surgeons. It has its pros and cons just like anything elst, so I hesitate to say it is the more appealing lol.
 
There's actually more applicants to the 4-year spots each year. Most unmatched spots are at 6-year programs. Try another word...
 
DaleDoback said:
There's actually more applicants to the 4-year spots each year. Most unmatched spots are at 6-year programs. Try another word...
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Haha. Okay, I find the 6 year far more appealing and it's a better fit for me.

I was under the impression that the 6 year typically had higher board scores. I assumed the 6 year had unfilled spots because they all fought for the top applicants capable of passing step 1, and there were only so many to go around.

I'd love to see the application data you're referencing though because I've always heard if you scored below a 90 you didn't have a great shot at a 6 year, but that people who posted high 80s could still match 4 year.

Not to mention all the most renown programs (parkland, lsu, unc, mgh, ucsf) are 6 yr, and I just again assumed they were getting the top applicants.

But looking at your statistics would be really cool if you wouldn't mind sharing the source.

To each his/her own. :)
 
Heres the stats on the unmatched spots in 2013. 10 spots went unfilled and all were MD-integrated. It definitely varies year to year. 2013 was ridiculous because 2 of those spots were at Louisville, a historically great and highly sought after program. I think this year that 3 went unmatched and 2 were MD. It is definitely everyone's personal opinion on why they rank 4 vs. 6. I was one of those guys who didn't care and ranked both, just wanted to go to a strong program that fit me best.

I'm still working on the application stats of 4 vs. 6. I know I have those in my computer somewhere from an AAOMS meeting. And we could all argue the "most renown" program for days. Personally, I felt like I was an extremely strong applicant (matched my #1, had 12 interviews) and didn't apply to a single one of the programs you mentioned. They are great programs, just didn't fit what I was looking for. Just funny how everyone looks at it differently.

And you are absolutely right, to each his/her own.


Results

GPRAEGDOMSPEDORTHOANESTOTAL
Filled:programs Filled in the Match96269976539359
Positions Filled in the Match641189213351270321696
Unfilled:programs with Unfilled Positions3840963197
Positions Remaining Unfilled145107101181282

Notes on Unfilled Programs and Positions:
GPR:No ranks were submitted for 9 positions in 3 programs.
AEGD:No ranks were submitted for 24 positions in 9 programs.
OMS:All 9 unfilled programs (10 positions) were MD required programs.
ORTH:No ranks were submitted for 1 position in 1 program.

Distribution of the Ratio of the Least Preferred Matched Rank to the Number of Positions Filled
(this indicates “how far down the list” a program went to fill its positions)
 
Unfortunately your stats don't help support your argument that 4 year programs are more competitive (I am neither arguing for or against you, but highlighting some important points about match that you are missing).
There are many reasons why 6 year programs may have had more unmatched spots than the 4 year programs:
- 6 year programs interviewed fewer applicants [due to: being over-confident, having fewer resources (ie. it may be hard to get more medical school faculty to interview all the applicants you would like to)]
- 6 year programs were more selective, and ranked fewer applicants (perhaps medical schools nixed students who didn't perform to their liking on the NBME/NBDE part 1 /undergrad grades)
- 6 year applicants were more selective and ranked fewer programs (perhaps these applicants value prestige, like that conferred by an MD degree, and see little prestige in a 'lesser-named' medical school)

From my experience, the 6 year programs I interviewed at had a better spot : interviewee ratios (1:10, 1:7, and 1:12), whereas the 4 year programs I interviewed at had ratios of 1:15, 1:20, and even 1:30 (I think it was Loyola). This would surely have an impact on how many spots are left unmatched. But this says nothing about how many people submitted applications to 6 year vs 4 year programs - I think that would be the best, most objective gauge of "competitiveness" - unfortunately I don't believe natmatch.org has those numbers.

And finally, good programs and bad programs can have unmatched spots. Not matching can be due to many reasons. See above.
 
I first want to say that if my post came off as me belittling 4yr programs that was unintentional, anecdotally, the best omfs i've worked with have been 4yrs...the person and the program seem to be a lot more important in determining skill than length of program

But, I actually was thinking along the same lines as contach...i imagine at the top 6 yr programs they're all interviewing the same group of 15 guys...and these stellar programs go unmatched bc they all want the best people and aren't initially willing to settle (until post match that is)

It would be interesting to see at the mixed programs (loma linda, uic...) which applicants have better stats their 6yrs or 4yrs

I don't however think quantity of applicants dictate competitiveness either...i imagine a lot of lower tiered applicants avoid 6yr programs for a bevy of reasons, and just bc there are more of them doesn't mean they can compete with that upper echelon of applicants

The fact that the amount of people scoring 67 (usmle correlative pass) or above on the cbse being a relatively low number (less than the amt of 6yr spots as someone pointed out to me) kind of lends itself to my theory

And again I realize some very very good applicants prefer 4yr for the known/stated reasons and Im sure quite a few of them come out as all-stars, just a personal thing.
 
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Given that dentists are lifestyle people, I would say that 6-year programs are generally less competitive.
 
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Silent Cool said:
Given that dentists are lifestyle people, I would say that 6-year programs are generally less competitive.
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That is so true. This is also why you rarely see top applicants going after academic careers. Most of us chose dentistry over medicine because of the lifestyle. But I don't think one is significantly more competitive than the other.
 
Bereno said:
Hmmmm, I think I would disagree. You are, after all, adding 2 more years (+50% duration), often paying more tuition for med school, as well as having 2 more years of interest accumulate which can account for about a $600-$700k opportunity cost. Not to mention it does not increase the scope of practice for 95% or more of all oral surgeons. It has its pros and cons just like anything elst, so I hesitate to say it is the more appealing lol.
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Poor argument in my opinion when deciding on your education. This is your education and career. It is hard for me to factor in "opportunity cost" and interest accumulation when deciding on career and training. You can never argue that more education is a bad thing. It can only benefit your patients. I'm sure I'll get flamed for this but I post it so that maybe, somewhere out in the ether of the interwebs, there is some young dental student trying to decide the age-old question of 4 vs. 6 year and realizes that there is more to this decision than $$$.
 
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UNLV OMS GUNNABE said:
Poor argument in my opinion when deciding on your education. This is your education and career. Yes it is, which is why I am apt to scrutinize it - it is very important to me! It is hard for me to factor in "opportunity cost" and interest accumulation when deciding on career and training. You should think on this a bit... opportunity cost is far more than just dollars and cents. You can never argue that more education is a bad thing. Yes I can lol. It can only benefit your patients. Not completely true. I'm sure I'll get flamed for this but I post it so that maybe, somewhere out in the ether of the interwebs, there is some young dental student trying to decide the age-old question of 4 vs. 6 year and realizes that there is more to this decision than $$$. Very true, but a bit misleading I believe.
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Dont be too quick to over-value education and your career. Sure education is good, but I really think it is over-rated by many. Note that this is coming from someone that has been in higher education for the past 9 years and likely has 6 more to go. More education is not always better, contrary to what many believe. Food for thought! :)
 
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Bereno said:
Dont be too quick to over-value education and your career. Sure education is good, but I really think it is over-rated by many. Note that this is coming from someone that has been in higher education for the past 9 years and likely has 6 more to go. More education is not always better, contrary to what many believe. Food for thought! :)
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in this context it is better.
 
UNLV OMS GUNNABE said:
in this context it is better.
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still depends on the measuring stick of choice, no?

want to do full neck whacks and cancer and exotic craniofacial reconstruction in an academic setting? 6-year might be all in your wheelhouse

want to do primarily T&T in a private practice setting to maximize dollars earned per hour while improving your golf swing? a 4-year sentence might be better
 
Ferneezy said:
still depends on the measuring stick of choice, no?

want to do full neck whacks and cancer and exotic craniofacial reconstruction in an academic setting? 6-year might be all in your wheelhouse

want to do primarily T&T in a private practice setting to maximize dollars earned per hour while improving your golf swing? a 4-year sentence might be better
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Ferneezy,

Where are you going to dental school?
 
UNLV OMS GUNNABE said:
in this context it is better.
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In this context more education is better? What I was trying to get at in my first post was that it really depends - each has their pros and cons. An MD does not make you a better oral surgeon - that depends on the surgeon. That is like saying 5 years of dental school is better than 4. An MD does allow you more access to fellowships like yourself, it does make you more prone to an academic position like yourself, and it does give you some clout with certain people, but it does not help you improve care/treatment on the vast majority of the procedures done by an OMFS.

Also dismissing opportunity cost here is huge. You have 2 more years of school that eat into family/friend/life time. You have to take all the med school licencing and board exams, and you have to maintain your license with CE and the "Ten Years" for the rest of your career. That is a lot of time, effort, and money for something that will not help me take better care of my patients. The value of an MD is for academics, fellowships, reputation or ego, and for those who love learning. All are valid if they apply to, but in no way makes the MD option inherently better.
 
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Ferneezy said:
still depends on the measuring stick of choice, no?

want to do full neck whacks and cancer and exotic craniofacial reconstruction in an academic setting? 6-year might be all in your wheelhouse

want to do primarily T&T in a private practice setting to maximize dollars earned per hour while improving your golf swing? a 4-year sentence might be better
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False, hence my first post
 
Bereno said:
In this context more education is better? What I was trying to get at in my first post was that it really depends - each has their pros and cons. An MD does not make you a better oral surgeon - that depends on the surgeon. That is like saying 5 years of dental school is better than 4. An MD does allow you more access to fellowships like yourself, it does make you more prone to an academic position like yourself, and it does give you some clout with certain people, but it does not help you improve care/treatment on the vast majority of the procedures done by an OMFS.

Also dismissing opportunity cost here is huge. You have 2 more years of school that eat into family/friend/life time. You have to take all the med school licencing and board exams, and you have to maintain your license with CE and the "Ten Years" for the rest of your career. That is a lot of time, effort, and money for something that will not help me take better care of my patients. The value of an MD is for academics, fellowships, reputation or ego, and for those who love learning. All are valid if they apply to, but in no way makes the MD option inherently better.
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This is the same argument regurgitated over and over again. Take two surgeons, give them the same surgical training, now give 1 of them a medical degree and and a real surgical internship. You can't say that will not improve his ability to care for patients. Or take a great 4 year trained surgeon, which there are plenty, now give him the same... he will only be better. A lot more goes into taking care of patients than just performing the procedure. You can't understand the difference until you have been through the process. There are things you learn in medical school and internship that you just can't learn any other way. Even down to how you communicate with other services and physicians. It is just different when you've gone through it. I trained somewhere with both 4 and 6 year residents and there is a difference. I'm just tired of seeing these same arguments being made for over a decade now on these forums. There is a difference no matter how many student doctor network wizards argue otherwise. I had a co-chief who was a 4-year guy, easily the smartest in our graduating year, excellent surgeon, he could school me to this day (and still does by text). Would a medical degree have made him even better? I believe so, and I don't think he would disagree. Doesn't change the fact that he is a smarter and better surgeon than probably 90% of all OMFS.
 
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UNLV OMS GUNNABE said:
This is the same argument regurgitated over and over again. Take two surgeons, give them the same surgical training, now give 1 of them a medical degree and and a real surgical internship. You can't say that will not improve his ability to care for patients. Or take a great 4 year trained surgeon, which there are plenty, now give him the same... he will only be better. A lot more goes into taking care of patients than just performing the procedure. You can't understand the difference until you have been through the process. There are things you learn in medical school and internship that you just can't learn any other way. Even down to how you communicate with other services and physicians. It is just different when you've gone through it. I trained somewhere with both 4 and 6 year residents and there is a difference. I'm just tired of seeing these same arguments being made for over a decade now on these forums. There is a difference no matter how many student doctor network wizards argue otherwise. I had a co-chief who was a 4-year guy, easily the smartest in our graduating year, excellent surgeon, he could school me to this day (and still does by text). Would a medical degree have made him even better? I believe so, and I don't think he would disagree. Doesn't change the fact that he is a smarter and better surgeon than probably 90% of all OMFS.
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First, I feel you missed my point in the post you quoted. I understand what you are saying about not knowing what I don't know, however, by saying that it effectively ends the debate without resolution. I have even heard plenty of MD degree oral surgeons say they are no better than a non-degree surgeon. Be clear that I am not saying an MD degree is worthless to the oral surgeon. They are different options for different people.

You mention that the MD would make you a better surgeon. OK, for the sake of argument lets say it does, but by how much? Its hard to say by how much (as you said above), but you still have to decide the costs (time, money, social, stress, family, etc) against the benefits. Unfortunately, the costs are more clearly seen than the benefits making the decision even more difficult. At what point do you draw the line and say 'I need to start my career/family/practice/whatever now?' Would a hygienist be a better hygienist by getting an RN? Yes, maybe a little, but not nearly enough to warrant the costs. Would their patients be able to tell the difference? No, I don't think so. It is clear that you think that the costs are worth the extra education while there are many that don't. The fact that there is disagreement clearly illustrates that one choice is not inherently better than the other. I have been debating this with myself for the past year and I have yet to find what about the MD would make me a better surgeon... That said, I am still torn. Why? Because I am not sure where I want to aim my career. It would likely make me a better academic surgeon, but would only marginally make me a better a private practice surgeon. All said and done, you got the MD and you feel it is the better option... but it is the better option for you, not everyone.
 
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I don't have a preference for single or dual degrees but as I see it, more education certainly won't make someone worse. You'll be as good a surgeon if you were a single or a dual degree. The only real good argument for single year is the money/cost/time factor. If it isn't a factor of if you're into fellowship/academics, than an MD is probably the better route. If you're into both, well tough titties.
 
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Great discussion. Appreciate all views and really kind of agree with everyone.

For me, personally, I really deep-down in my heart of hearts wanted to do a 6-year program. I wanted my MD for many reasons listed above, but most for my education and my ego. I will be the first to admit that. If I were a single guy in my 20s, I would have done a 6-year program (and had the scores and interviews to do so).

In real life, I wasn't a single guy in my 20s. I'm a married guy with kids in my 30s. I had to sit down and weigh the benefits and consequences. I ended up going the 4-year route, but would have never had issues with a 6-year route. This is and always will be a personal decision. My future practice will have partners with both 4 and 6 year training. I hope to learn from both.

Does more education equal better oral surgeon? I don't think so. Does more education make you a smarter guy and expose you to things that a 4-year guy doesn't get? Without a doubt.

It really is a personal decision you have to make with yourself, but I will never say that additional education would hurt any of us.......it just has to be worth it for you. That's why I don't think any of us can say that 6-year gets "better applicants", just different ones.
 
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I have NEVER heard a dual-degree surgeon say they regret getting their MD.

I often hear single degree guys, when no on else is listening and they are having a moment of open sincerity, admit that they wish they had done a dual-degree program and gotten their MD. Single degree guys will have that emptiness and stubborn inferiority for their entire career, never knowing if they could have passed the USMLE, never knowing what it would be like. They will never know.

And to you undecided premed/predent's, I have never heard an OMS say they wish they had done medicine rather than dentistry. But I often hear residents from other surgical specialties, ENT included, say they wish they had just gone to dental school.
 
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yl4lif3 said:
And to you undecided premed/predent's, I have never heard an OMS say they wish they had done medicine rather than dentistry. But I often hear residents from other surgical specialties, ENT included, say they wish they had just gone to dental school.
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Dat warm fuzzy feeling :3
 
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yl4lif3 said:
I have NEVER heard a dual-degree surgeon say they regret getting their MD.

I often hear single degree guys, when no on else is listening and they are having a moment of open sincerity, admit that they wish they had done a dual-degree program and gotten their MD. Single degree guys will have that emptiness and stubborn inferiority for their entire career, never knowing if they could have passed the USMLE, never knowing what it would be like. They will never know.

And to you undecided premed/predent's, I have never heard an OMS say they wish they had done medicine rather than dentistry. But I often hear residents from other surgical specialties, ENT included, say they wish they had just gone to dental school.
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Def. the first part. I've never heard a 6yr say they wish they'd gone 4....ever...but I have heard more than a few 4yrs say they wish they had done a 6yr.
 
Sublimazing said:
Def. the first part. I've never heard a 6yr say they wish they'd gone 4....ever...but I have heard more than a few 4yrs say they wish they had done a 6yr.
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did any of them share the "why" to that? of course it's personal and case-by-case, but it might be illustrative.
 
yl4lif3 said:
I have NEVER heard a dual-degree surgeon say they regret getting their MD.

I often hear single degree guys, when no on else is listening and they are having a moment of open sincerity, admit that they wish they had done a dual-degree program and gotten their MD. Single degree guys will have that emptiness and stubborn inferiority for their entire career, never knowing if they could have passed the USMLE, never knowing what it would be like. They will never know.

And to you undecided premed/predent's, I have never heard an OMS say they wish they had done medicine rather than dentistry. But I often hear residents from other surgical specialties, ENT included, say they wish they had just gone to dental school.
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:laugh: oh god, this is the most ******ed thing I have seen posted here. We measuring dicks here? There are many people, including myself, at Baylor who have scored high enough to not only have passed, but have done well, on the USMLE based on our NBME score that are applying only to 4 year programs. We are giving up the awesome opportunity to spend 2 extra years retaking organ system pathology and looking up vags during OBGYN rotation. You do realize that dentist don't give a rats ass about whether you have an MD or not. They only care that you communicate with them properly and treat the patients that they refer to you well.
 
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yl4lif3 said:
I have NEVER heard a dual-degree surgeon say they regret getting their MD.

I often hear single degree guys, when no on else is listening and they are having a moment of open sincerity, admit that they wish they had done a dual-degree program and gotten their MD. Single degree guys will have that emptiness and stubborn inferiority for their entire career, never knowing if they could have passed the USMLE, never knowing what it would be like. They will never know.
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Easy killer. I have heard multiple guys say they regret it. Most don't and shouldn't, but it has been said before.

I will never know what it's like to take the USMLE. I do plan to know what it's like to retire 2 years earlier. My inferiority complex and emptiness will be filled with two additional years of income. For me, it wasn't worth it.

Again, it's a personal decision, but don't be disrespectful to your fellow surgeons.
 
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This has been one of the worse threads I have seen on SDN. It is a shame seeing the disrespect from fellow colleagues. It should not matter whether you are a four or six year person. To each his/her own. We each chose our path because we thought it was in our own best interest.
 
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Sharing a real world experience. There is an dual-degree oral surgeon in my area that puts MD before DMD in his name. So he advertised himself as Dentist, MD, DMD. The general dentists in the area went nuts, and many refused to send that oral surgeon any referrals. Moral of the story is, that getting the MD does not make you more of a physican than a dentist. You are a dentist first, and the MD is peripheral to your training. If you lose sight of this, you are putting yourself on a pedestal so high, that many general dentists will not react kindly to it. In general, OMFS production comes in through referrals from general dentists, so you are advertising more to the dentists than the general population.

But if you care more about your ego than the money that comes in, than you can do whatever you want with your life. From my example, that MD, DMD oral surgeon is one of the poorest performing oral surgeons in this area, due to that boycott. The MD is a very useful tool for advertising to the general public, but just make sure you don't shoot yourself in the foot by thinking you're above and beyond being a dentist. Not saying anyone here is, and I might be stating the obvious, but just wanna get this word out there.
 
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AlbinoPolarBear said:
Sharing a real world experience. There is an dual-degree oral surgeon in my area that puts MD before DMD in his name. So he advertised himself as Dentist, MD, DMD. The general dentists in the area went nuts, and many refused to send that oral surgeon any referrals. Moral of the story is, that getting the MD does not make you more of a physican than a dentist. You are a dentist first, and the MD is peripheral to your training. If you lose sight of this, you are putting yourself on a pedestal so high, that many general dentists will not react kindly to it. In general, OMFS production comes in through referrals from general dentists, so you are advertising more to the dentists than the general population.

But if you care more about your ego than the money that comes in, than you can do whatever you want with your life. From my example, that MD, DMD oral surgeon is one of the poorest performing oral surgeons in this area, due to that boycott. The MD is a very useful tool for advertising to the general public, but just make sure you don't shoot yourself in the foot by thinking you're above and beyond being a dentist. Not saying anyone here is, and I might be stating the obvious, but just wanna get this word out there.
Click to expand...

I don't get why people get so bent out of shape about stuff like that. Seems petty.
 
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AlbinoPolarBear said:
But if you care more about your ego than the money that comes in, than you can do whatever you want with your life. From my example, that MD, DMD oral surgeon is one of the poorest performing oral surgeons in this area, due to that boycott. The MD is a very useful tool for advertising to the general public, but just make sure you don't shoot yourself in the foot by thinking you're above and beyond being a dentist. Not saying anyone here is, and I might be stating the obvious, but just wanna get this word out there.
Click to expand...


So be cool to your fellow surgeon, but if he did a 6yr he's egotistical and wasted money?

Great work.
 
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