Question on subacutes and independent practice.

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

DannMann99

Full Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2007
Messages
425
Reaction score
1
I have heard of some people making an independent practice out of seeing consults at subacute rehabs.

Anyone know how reasonable something like that would be. Lately I'm thinking I would enjoy a consult service type practice, covering non-interventional pain, MSK, joint injections, spasticity management, and maybe a rare EMG.

Can anyone who's heard of this maybe give me some info? I'd appreciate it.

Dan.

Members don't see this ad.
 
going to subacute can be a full time job if you wanted it to be.

you can make your own hours, and dial it up and down as you choose to. what you are proposing is very reasonable
 
I have a very similar practice to the one you just described. I am the Physiatry and Pain consultant at a few subacute rehab facilities (Nursing homes with therapy) and I have an outpatient MSK practice. PM me if you have any questions.

I have heard of some people making an independent practice out of seeing consults at subacute rehabs.

Anyone know how reasonable something like that would be. Lately I'm thinking I would enjoy a consult service type practice, covering non-interventional pain, MSK, joint injections, spasticity management, and maybe a rare EMG.

Can anyone who's heard of this maybe give me some info? I'd appreciate it.

Dan.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Members don't see this ad :)
Was wondering how feasible this is to start on my own out of residency? As far as I know people have had success cold calling SNFs and speaking with directors for consults. What would I need at that point? I would think I'd only need my state license, medical malpractice, and pay a billing company? Am I missing anything?

Also, there are a number of large organizations out there doing the same and hiring physicians. Does anyone have any honest information on them? What kind of a cut they take? (i've heard 20-35%). What they expect of you (patients to be seen per day/week)? How much malpractice and billing costs through them? Do they typically cover health/dental insurance, or typically offer retirement plans?
My ideal schedule would be working 9a-4p, 4 days a week. Somewhere in the mid-atlantic (PA/VA/NC/SC/GA). Does anyone have any idea of a ballpark I could expect to take in putting in an honest days work?

I'm finishing up residency and my crushing debt is starting to scare me!

Thanks!
 
Honestly it is fairly feasible to start subacute consultants right out of residency. But it depends on where you are practicing. If you are in a desirable location like NYC, Chicago, Miami, Dallas, LA etc cold calling might not work. Most well run facilities have a relationship with local or national PM&R groups( IRC, ARC, US Physiatry etc). I practice in the midwest and I am the physiatry consultant at 2 very large subacute facilities. They are practically run like inpatient units. One is actually owned by the hospital. We have specialized units, therapy 6 days a week, NP/PA on staff, very involved PCPs, large therapy gyms with equipment seen in inpatient rehab units, EMR etc. The only reason I am working at these facilities is because they are more interested in talking to larger national groups that already have a reputation. If I ran the local inpatient rehab unit I would have no trouble getting my foot in the door at these facilities since I could bring them business. I am adding a lot of value at these facilities. I just received an email from the director of one of the facility and in 6 months I was able to increase there therapy outcomes, reduce re hospitalization rates and helped them move from a 2 star to 3 star rating by addressing untreated pain.
The work is not glamorous but it is very satisfying. I have an outpatient clinic where I get to work on my msk/needle skill set.
If you are in a small town all you need to do is cold call, show up at the facility, sell yourself, hire a billing/credentialing company, purchase malpractice insurance, learn billing, maybe hire someone to do part time admin work, figure out medicare regulations, meet and educate the primary care physicians, start seeing patients and wait 3 months from the day you start to get paid.
For the past 2 1/2 years I have worked as an independent contractor for the largest group of subacute physiatrist in the US. The 'cut' is basically your overhead. The overhead covers full time admin support (answering calls, faxes, credentialing etc), all the billing, billing software on my smartphone, mentorship from one of the many physicians,education etc. Depending on your level of experience the 'cut' can vary. It is also negotiable. Somewhere between 20-35 sounds about right be it depends on if you work part time or full time. I personally don't mind the 'cut' even after 2 1/2 years since the group has been very supportive and has even hired me a PA. The percentage is negotiable every year as is the rest of the contract.
There is no strict expectation on how many patients need to be seen. 15 is probably a minimum. Most people can easily see 20+. Since you are an independent contractor you cover your own malpractice/Dental/Health/Retirement. Being part of a big group means a big discount because of group buy.
I work from 9am to 4pm 3 or 4 days a week. The other days I have clinic with can be from 9am to 7pm.
It is very hard to predict ball park figures. It will depend on how efficient you are. If you see 10 patients a day you will probably not do well. Having a PA will add additional income. You will definitely make more if you work in a small town inpatient rehab unit or do injections all day. But you will probably have to take call or have to deal with chronic pain.
PM me if you have any more questions.
 
Was wondering how feasible this is to start on my own out of residency? As far as I know people have had success cold calling SNFs and speaking with directors for consults. What would I need at that point? I would think I'd only need my state license, medical malpractice, and pay a billing company? Am I missing anything?

Also, there are a number of large organizations out there doing the same and hiring physicians. Does anyone have any honest information on them? What kind of a cut they take? (i've heard 20-35%). What they expect of you (patients to be seen per day/week)? How much malpractice and billing costs through them? Do they typically cover health/dental insurance, or typically offer retirement plans?
My ideal schedule would be working 9a-4p, 4 days a week. Somewhere in the mid-atlantic (PA/VA/NC/SC/GA). Does anyone have any idea of a ballpark I could expect to take in putting in an honest days work?

I'm finishing up residency and my crushing debt is starting to scare me!

Thanks!


Dan, I am affiliated with a Physiatry company that specializes in Subacute rehab facilities and compensates well. There are open positions in South Carolina in very desireable locations! Please feel free to PM me, would appreciate to inform you on the job possibilities
 
Last edited:
Apologies, not trying to hijack the thread but for someone at the medical student level planning to pursue PM&R I've heard "subacute" mentioned here and there. But I don't really understand what that means... could someone explain what a typical 9-4 day looks like in "subacute". Maybe and example or two of the type of patients/chief complaints you have for these consults?
 
Apologies, not trying to hijack the thread but for someone at the medical student level planning to pursue PM&R I've heard "subacute" mentioned here and there. But I don't really understand what that means... could someone explain what a typical 9-4 day looks like in "subacute". Maybe and example or two of the type of patients/chief complaints you have for these consults?

Hello spineall,

your question is good, but difficult to answer. Hours really vary on the amount of patients you see daily or throughout the week. Most physiatrists will have one or 2 days in which it may be a lighter caseload. As PMR 2008, who is quite knowledgeable stated, hours translate to caseload vs part time vs fulltime. Type of patients will be similar to acute inpatient settings but with less acute case indexes. Hope this helps your question.
 
Can anyone comment on the amount of pay you can make if you average 35-40 patients per day for 4-5 days a week at subacute rehab facilities after the 25-30% cut that these companies take out? I was told ~$450K…. After the the 25-30% cut, taxes etc, I come up with about a net of 225-250k per year. does that found about right? And my next question is why aren't more physiatrists pursuing this route? Low stress, no call, flexible hours, making $250/year sounds too good to be true. Is there something I'm missing? Thanks for the replies
 
Can anyone comment on the amount of pay you can make if you average 35-40 patients per day for 4-5 days a week at sub acute rehab facilities after the 25-30% cut that these companies take out? I was told ~$450K…. After the the 25-30% cut, taxes etc, I come up with about a net of 225-250k per year. does that found about right? And my next question is why aren't more physiatrists pursuing this route? Low stress, no call, flexible hours, making $250/year sounds too good to be true. Is there something I'm missing? Thanks for the replies
The number is accurate. Your 225-250k is not accurate. What are you using to calculate that range? PM me if you are not comfortable in talking about it publicly. Lots of physiatrists are pursuing this route. The company I work for as an independent contractor has grown from 5 physicians when I joined 3 1/2 years ago to 85. The projection is 120 by this summer and probably close to 200 by next summer. We have physicians from RIC, Hopkins, etc. Large cities are already saturated and this will spread to smaller metros soon. It is just not glamorous work and does not involve prestige, academics, research and lots of procedures. Besides most physiatrits ideas of sub acute is nursing homes of the past where patients would go to die. This is the future of subacute rehab http://www.symphonyofdyer.com/.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Top