Question about Cleveland Clinic and Mayo Clinic

[pcg1001]

Why does the Mayo and Cleveland Clinic have so many DO's and IMG's for neurology residency? Do they have trouble filling in their spots, or are the DO/IMGs getting like 270s on boards? At Cleveland Clinic it seems that some years its ALL DO+IMG with no AMGs

Also, theres rumors that fellows run the show in these places and they are not a good place for training.....is this true in terms of neurology?

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[bustbones26]

Why does the Mayo and Cleveland Clinic have so many DO's and IMG's for neurology residency? Do they have trouble filling in their spots, or are the DO/IMGs getting like 270s on boards? At Cleveland Clinic it seems that some years its ALL DO+IMG with no AMGs

Also, theres rumors that fellows run the show in these places and they are not a good place for training.....is this true in terms of neurology?

Eastern Ohio is largely DO friendly. OUCOM also tends to give admission preference to OH residents. Not to mention the Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine is a short drive away and further attracts DOs to Cleveland. The Cleveland Clinic is also not just a hospital but a large health organization that owns many hospitals in Eastern Ohio. Southpointe hospital is owned by the Clinic and back in my day, Southpointe had exclusive OGME, thus, many residents would brag that they were training at the "Cleveland Clinic". The Cleveland region and Eastern Ohio is saturated with DOs. The midwest is also saturated with DOs and Cleveland sort of serves as a funnel.


Not every IMG is a US flunky that had to go to Ross or some person trying to escape from India. There are number of IMGs that I have seen in pretigious positions that spent a great deal of time in research and are very knowledgeable. I can think of one institution that I spent a great deal of time as a medical student that had a large number of IMGs that were top notch. This was actually a joy to work with them because they were smart, hard working, yet humble.

As for fellows running the show? Hey, sometimes, what you get out of training is what you get out of training. At the end of the day, some people may just want the bragging rights.

I did not do residency at Cleveland or Mayo, but I feel that my training was lackluster. I essentially taught myself and on my fourth year out of residency, I am still teaching myself something new every single day. I suppose that is what I enjoy about Neurology, no matter how much you know, you can always know more and there is always something new to learn. I feel that we all develop our subinterest in residency and tend to carve these out.

 

[pcg1001]

I have no stigma against IMGs/DOs, but was just wondering because I saw very few at other top premier programs in the country such as Partners, Hopkins, Washington University at St. Louis, and I know that Cleveland Clinic and Mayo are very highly regarded programs as well. I just wanted to know why it was higher in these programs and not the others

 

[darksideone]

I have no stigma against IMGs/DOs, but was just wondering because I saw very few at other top premier programs in the country such as Partners, Hopkins, Washington University at St. Louis, and I know that Cleveland Clinic and Mayo are very highly regarded programs as well. I just wanted to know why it was higher in these programs and not the others

Location. Location. Location.

 

[danielmd06]

I have no stigma against IMGs/DOs, but was just wondering because I saw very few at other top premier programs in the country such as Partners, Hopkins, Washington University at St. Louis, and I know that Cleveland Clinic and Mayo are very highly regarded programs as well. I just wanted to know why it was higher in these programs and not the others

To echo the above poster...one program you cite is in Cleveland, the other is in Rochester, MN (although both have branches in Florida). I'm not trying to denigrate the locations too much, but San Francisco they are not.

 

[bustbones26]

Location. Location. Location.

Echoing this sentiment. Not too long ago, Cleveland was rated the poorest city in America. There are a number of bad neighborhoods and some areas are equivalent to a ghost town. Also, the Browns suck! (Uncessary, but thought that I would throw that in there while I was kicking Cleveland while it was down).

Years ago, the Cleveland flats were a hot spot for fun, clubs, etc. Now, its been adbandoned, gone, and turned into apartments?

Also, if you ever live on the Great Lakes, you get to experience that wonderous lake effect snow and brutal winters.

 

[darksideone]

Echoing this sentiment. Not too long ago, Cleveland was rated the poorest city in America. There are a number of bad neighborhoods and some areas are equivalent to a ghost town. Also, the Browns suck! (Uncessary, but thought that I would throw that in there while I was kicking Cleveland while it was down).

Years ago, the Cleveland flats were a hot spot for fun, clubs, etc. Now, its been adbandoned, gone, and turned into apartments?

Also, if you ever live on the Great Lakes, you get to experience that wonderous lake effect snow and brutal winters.

I agree if you are single and looking for night life, Rochester and Cleveland are not your best options. Might as well go with LA, SF, Chicago, NYC, Boston, Miami.

Both clinics offer great training.

 

[Strokeguy]

And you cannot clump all IMGs as a useless lot. Many are excellent physicians who are perhaps the best products of the medical systems in their countries, could even be far better candidates than many AMGs. You will find many of these as faculty even at premier programs in most sought after locations- MGH, UCSF, Hopkins, UCLA.....Location makes a difference.

 

[neurologist]

Why does the Mayo and Cleveland Clinic have so many DO's and IMG's for neurology residency? Do they have trouble filling in their spots, or are the DO/IMGs getting like 270s on boards? At Cleveland Clinic it seems that some years its ALL DO+IMG with no AMGs

Also, theres rumors that fellows run the show in these places and they are not a good place for training.....is this true in terms of neurology?

That's interesting about Mayo -- I was there not all that long ago and while there were a number of IMGs in fellowship slots, there were only 1 or 2 IMG/DO neuro residents at the time. Things must have really changed rather quickly and I'm not sure why that would be.

Cleveland Clinic neuro has been IMG friendly for a long time; when I interviewed there for fellowship, I was struck by that myself. But they all seemed like pretty damn bright IMGs, and I suspected it had to do with Hans Luders (chairman at the time and an IMG himself) recruiting "the best and the brightest" from all over to build up kind of a United Nations of neurology . . .

As for fellows running the show, yeah, I got that sense at CC (and the fellows seemed pretty stressed out because of that). Definitely was not the case at Mayo though (at least when I was there, and at least not in Neuro) and I honestly can't think of too many places I would rather train -- IF you can deal with the "being in Rochester" issue.

 

[pecmaj]

was also wondering why so many IMGs/DOs at CC...not to say they are inferior to american MDs but the more prestigious programs are typically picky. CC did seem like a very solid program and residents seemed happy. did anyone get a feel for the teaching at CC?

 

[ButIwantneuro]

I did not do residency at Cleveland or Mayo, but I feel that my training was lackluster. I essentially taught myself and on my fourth year out of residency, I am still teaching myself something new every single day. I suppose that is what I enjoy about Neurology, no matter how much you know, you can always know more and there is always something new to learn. I feel that we all develop our subinterest in residency and tend to carve these out.

Any chance you can tell us where you trained?

 

[Mattchiavelli]

Some of the IMG Thing might have to do with notoriety and administrative support in getting people over here and licensed, set up to practice and go etc. That's my theory at least