- Joined
- Sep 2, 2002
- Messages
- 65
- Reaction score
- 0
Public request for response from AZCOM
- Thread starter F/A-18
- Start date
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2003
- Messages
- 12
- Reaction score
- 0
Please RESPOND to poor student relations with teaching staff and continued problems with 3 and 4th year clinical rotations. Thank you.--------------------------------------------------------
Huh? What are you referring to and what facts do you have to back it up?
Do you have any basis for commenting on "poor student relations with teaching staff and continued problems with 3rd and 4th year clinical rotations?"
I'm not accusing you of lying, I just want to know if you know something the rest of us don't. I've been here for three years and any conspiracy is news to me.
Regards,
Huh? What are you referring to and what facts do you have to back it up?
Do you have any basis for commenting on "poor student relations with teaching staff and continued problems with 3rd and 4th year clinical rotations?"
I'm not accusing you of lying, I just want to know if you know something the rest of us don't. I've been here for three years and any conspiracy is news to me.
Regards,
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2001
- Messages
- 37
- Reaction score
- 0
I posted the website of the survey.
First, the survey was completely student organized, and was born out of a desire to help the administration know and respond to what the students of AZCOM really thought and wanted regarding the education and campus life.
I posted the results of the survey because I felt that it was information I wish I had before I came here. Now that doesnt mean that I would have changed anything, because I am happy here, and glad I came, but the survey touched on a lot of things I wish I had know about, some of it bad, most of it good. Sure, you can always get opinions from individuals about this or that, but when you see data graphs of collective responses to a particular subject, it carries a lot more weight. I think future students would have liked to see what their $120K+ was buying.
The reaction to this posting was drearily predictable. The school Admin freaked and had this site delete the link, which was completely inappropriate, as it was not the Admin's intellectual property, and the information was completely true: not slander or libel. I'll admit some unhappiness with the SDN site moderator for jumping so quickly, but no matter. Some AZCOM students were upset that I was airing "dirty laundry." Most students indicated support for the publicity of the survey, but the survey committee asked that I remove the website as they felt it would damage their chance of getting positive change from an Admin preoccupied with damage control. Maybe so, but judging from the admin response to last year's survey (stored in the circular file), I felt a little outside scrutiny would help. Apparently the school Admin feels very strongly about...well, you fill in the thought.
So, my involvement in this affair is over. There are other windmills to joust.
Final thoughts on the survey, from my perspective:
DISCLAIMER: these statements do not reflect the position of the Administration, Survey Committee, Generalisimo Bush, God, or my neighbors cat.
In general, most students here are quite happy with their basic science years. I think the science years are very high quality. We all think the cost of tuition is too much, and wonder why it keeps going up 7%/year. Yeah, we would like to get more access to our Dean, but who wouldnt? Yes, we think our library hours stink, but what ya going to do about it? Thank god there are coffee shops and Barnes and Nobles has tables. Many students expressed a reluctance to join any AZCOM alumni association, and very few students said they would be willing to donate to AZCOM post graduation. What does that really mean? Dunno.
A large portion of 3rd and 4th year students indicated that they were dissatisfied or very dissatisfied with the clinical years. Notice I didnt say a majority of students, but it was a rather astonishing number. Exactly why they are dissatisfied? I'm sure opinions and reasons vary.
IMHO, there are some pros and cons to the preceptor based rotations here. One of the great strengths of the program is its flexibility and custamizability (jeez, I'm a horrible speller), you can choose where and when you want to do things. One of the great weaknesses, is sometimes you have to choose where and when to do things to make sure its quality.
The preceptor evaluation books are a great source of info. There are several high caliber preceptors that train students very, very well. But, there are also negative reviews of people complaining they spent their 3rd year core holding up a wall, or that their experience with rotation X wasnt even worth the price of gas to drive there. Problem is, when the stellar preceptors are full up and you didnt get a good lottery match, then you can either go out of state, or stay local and hold up a wall for a month.
When you read of AZCOM students bragging about doing rotation X at destination Y, wonder "Did they buy a $400 plane ticket to NY/Detroit/Chicago/ for a in-hospital Peds rotation in February because they could, or because they felt they had to?" Sometimes the answer is in the middle. Get my drift?
One of the new jokes on campus is a teaching hospital in Phoenix just announced new rules: students must have 2 in-hospital IM rotations before they can rotate there. The punch line is we have a hard time finding 1 in-hospital IM rotation! Yes, there are several good IM rotations available to us, but very few are in-hospital, which makes it hard when the hospital you want to audition rotate at for residency requires one. Makes you laugh, right?
[controvery avoidance mode re-activated]
back to lurking status...
First, the survey was completely student organized, and was born out of a desire to help the administration know and respond to what the students of AZCOM really thought and wanted regarding the education and campus life.
I posted the results of the survey because I felt that it was information I wish I had before I came here. Now that doesnt mean that I would have changed anything, because I am happy here, and glad I came, but the survey touched on a lot of things I wish I had know about, some of it bad, most of it good. Sure, you can always get opinions from individuals about this or that, but when you see data graphs of collective responses to a particular subject, it carries a lot more weight. I think future students would have liked to see what their $120K+ was buying.
The reaction to this posting was drearily predictable. The school Admin freaked and had this site delete the link, which was completely inappropriate, as it was not the Admin's intellectual property, and the information was completely true: not slander or libel. I'll admit some unhappiness with the SDN site moderator for jumping so quickly, but no matter. Some AZCOM students were upset that I was airing "dirty laundry." Most students indicated support for the publicity of the survey, but the survey committee asked that I remove the website as they felt it would damage their chance of getting positive change from an Admin preoccupied with damage control. Maybe so, but judging from the admin response to last year's survey (stored in the circular file), I felt a little outside scrutiny would help. Apparently the school Admin feels very strongly about...well, you fill in the thought.
So, my involvement in this affair is over. There are other windmills to joust.
Final thoughts on the survey, from my perspective:
DISCLAIMER: these statements do not reflect the position of the Administration, Survey Committee, Generalisimo Bush, God, or my neighbors cat.
In general, most students here are quite happy with their basic science years. I think the science years are very high quality. We all think the cost of tuition is too much, and wonder why it keeps going up 7%/year. Yeah, we would like to get more access to our Dean, but who wouldnt? Yes, we think our library hours stink, but what ya going to do about it? Thank god there are coffee shops and Barnes and Nobles has tables. Many students expressed a reluctance to join any AZCOM alumni association, and very few students said they would be willing to donate to AZCOM post graduation. What does that really mean? Dunno.
A large portion of 3rd and 4th year students indicated that they were dissatisfied or very dissatisfied with the clinical years. Notice I didnt say a majority of students, but it was a rather astonishing number. Exactly why they are dissatisfied? I'm sure opinions and reasons vary.
IMHO, there are some pros and cons to the preceptor based rotations here. One of the great strengths of the program is its flexibility and custamizability (jeez, I'm a horrible speller), you can choose where and when you want to do things. One of the great weaknesses, is sometimes you have to choose where and when to do things to make sure its quality.
The preceptor evaluation books are a great source of info. There are several high caliber preceptors that train students very, very well. But, there are also negative reviews of people complaining they spent their 3rd year core holding up a wall, or that their experience with rotation X wasnt even worth the price of gas to drive there. Problem is, when the stellar preceptors are full up and you didnt get a good lottery match, then you can either go out of state, or stay local and hold up a wall for a month.
When you read of AZCOM students bragging about doing rotation X at destination Y, wonder "Did they buy a $400 plane ticket to NY/Detroit/Chicago/ for a in-hospital Peds rotation in February because they could, or because they felt they had to?" Sometimes the answer is in the middle. Get my drift?
One of the new jokes on campus is a teaching hospital in Phoenix just announced new rules: students must have 2 in-hospital IM rotations before they can rotate there. The punch line is we have a hard time finding 1 in-hospital IM rotation! Yes, there are several good IM rotations available to us, but very few are in-hospital, which makes it hard when the hospital you want to audition rotate at for residency requires one. Makes you laugh, right?
[controvery avoidance mode re-activated]
back to lurking status...
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2002
- Messages
- 829
- Reaction score
- 8
bikerboy,
Thank you for the thoughtful post! It's certainly better to know all this before starting than to find out before there's time to adequately prepare. One would think that students would be less vitriolic about the school's shortcomings if they knew of those shortcomings beforehand.
I'm excited by the preceptor program and can't wait for 2005, but it's good to know that one has to put in work to get a lot out of it rather than finding that out well after everything's been set. I hope that the school finds a constructive way to make this known to prospective students; I'm sure that the caliber of those who choose AZCOM will be better for the frankness.
Thank you for the thoughtful post! It's certainly better to know all this before starting than to find out before there's time to adequately prepare. One would think that students would be less vitriolic about the school's shortcomings if they knew of those shortcomings beforehand.
I'm excited by the preceptor program and can't wait for 2005, but it's good to know that one has to put in work to get a lot out of it rather than finding that out well after everything's been set. I hope that the school finds a constructive way to make this known to prospective students; I'm sure that the caliber of those who choose AZCOM will be better for the frankness.
